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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Rep. Kennedy Says Medication Led to Crash; Confronting Rumsfeld; Minutemen Muscle; Minutemen Mission; Zarqawi Outtakes; Immigration Battle; Water World; Rolling Stone: 1000

Aired May 4, 2006 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, tonight, after several hours and a lot of huddling with advisors, the congressman issued a statement saying he had actually taken two prescription drugs, Phenergan and Ambien, prescribed by the Capitol physician, and at about 2:45 this morning he got in his car and drove towards the capitol, believing that he needed to vote. In his statement he said, quote, "Apparently I was disoriented from the medication. At the time I was involved in a one-car incident in which my car hit the security barrier at the corner of First and C Street Southeast. At no time before the incident did I consume any alcohol. At the time of the accident, I was instructed to park my car and was driven home by the United States Capitol Police."
Now, a short while ago, the congressman talked to reporters leaving his office here in Washington. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: I'm sorry to keep you up so late. I had a statement that's been released, and that's about all for tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congressman, do you think you got preferential treatment from the police?

KENNEDY: I never asked for any preferential treatment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you received any?

KENNEDY: That's up to for police to decide and I'm going to cooperate fully with them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And that issue of preferential treatment is critical and already very controversial because here's what we're told by law enforcement and top congressional sources briefed, but not on the scene. It was that the congressman was seen swerving by a patrol officer who turned and followed him, even put his lights on in pursuit until the congressman crashed his car into that barrier.

Now, the congressman was not given a breathalyzer. He was not arrested. In fact, we're told that the lieutenant at the command center instructed nearby sergeants to go to the scene and quote, "take care of it." That meant just driving him home. Now because of that, the chief of police has launched an internal investigation as to why apparently normal procedure was not followed, and the investigation into the actual incident is continuing as well.

Now, the top congressional source that I talked to said, look, that's like the old days when congressmen were just let go. And at this point in time, there's zero tolerance for that now. And also we're told that there might actually be videotape, Anderson, of the incident taken from a security camera at a nearby office building.

Now, as for Kennedy, he is going back to his home state of Rhode Island tomorrow, and he promises to cooperate with investigators.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Dana, thanks for the reporting.

Lou Cannon is the president of the D.C. Fraternal Order of Police. He joins me now by phone.

I know that your union delivered a letter today to the acting capitol police chief, protesting the handling of the matter. Was this not handled in the traditional way? I mean, is it common for higher level police officers to arrive on the scene and drive home a suspect?

LOU CANNON, PRESIDENT, D.C. FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE (on the phone): Well, it's certainly common for higher ranking officers to arrive on any scene to make sure things are going properly.

It is probably a little unusual to have a high ranking official drive someone that's involved in the type of incident home. That's not the normal protocol.

COOPER: What is your concern in this matter?

CANNON: Well, I think the concern of law enforcement and the FOP in this matter is the fact that we want to make sure that the situation, regardless of who was involved in it, that the officers are committed to do their job effectively, without interference and without favors being granted.

I think that the key thing, number one, if there was any improper involvement by any ranking officials. We want to make sure that that's looked at and handled accordingly by the interim chief.

COOPER: There was no breathalyzer given at the scene. If his statement is correct and he was taking various forms of medication, would you be able to have ascertained that on the scene?

CANNON: I think that a breathalyzer, either at the station or a roadside breathalyzer test was given, it would give an indication of any alcohol content that was present at that time. It would certainly have -- if there was none, it would certainly go to support his claim at this time.

COOPER: How tough is it for Capitol Police when they have to confront members of Congress? I mean, it's got to be a sort of sticky wicket.

CANNON: Well, it's not just the Capitol Police. It's any law enforcement officer of the nation's capital, you could wind up having to deal with a member of Congress, a diplomat, various people of stature are all through the District of Columbia. So, at any time, any of the 39 agencies that are there can come in contact with somebody like that.

COOPER: But I mean, the procedure is that they should not receive special treatment?

CANNON: They should be afforded, you know, respect according to their position, but I mean, as far as any favors or considerations that are given, I think they should be treated just like anybody else.

COOPER: Lou Cannon, appreciate you joining us again tonight. Thanks.

In his statement, Mr. Kennedy mentioned two drugs -- one for nausea, the other a sleeping bill, ambien. We wanted to know what the effects and possible side effects are of the drugs. We got 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta on the phone from Atlanta.

Sanjay, what do you know about these two drugs? It was ambient, and I forget the name of the other one.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Phenergan is the other one. These are both, you know, pretty well known medications.

Ambien, a lot of people know, because it's a sleep medication. And you and I've done a lot of stories on this recently about some sort of strange side effects that ambien can have. People sleep driving, sleep eating. We talked about that just a couple weeks ago.

Phenergan is, actually it's an antihistamine, Anderson. That's a medication typically taken for allergies. But it's been around for a long time. And people found that it was also pretty good at containing nausea. So, it can be a nausea medication, typically not a first-line nausea medication. Not the first thing your doctor would prescribe if you had nausea. Typically, it's given after surgery or if someone has active motion sickness.

COOPER: And taking these drugs together, good idea?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's interesting. Even if you look at the simple sort of patient information on this, they'll say with phenergan, for example, it can cause severe drowsiness, so you don't want to take it with other medications, such as sleeping medications or alcohol, for example. So it's probably not a good idea at all.

And, you know, it was interesting. I was just hearing Dana Bash, as well, where, you know, talking about the fact that the congressman may have actually woken up and gone in for a vote, you know, sort of disoriented. This is not unusual when you're taking two very sedating medications like this. COOPER: The investigation -- two investigations actually, continuing right now. Sanjay, appreciate your expertise. Thanks.

GUPTA: Thank you.

(END BREAKING NEWS)

COOPER: We now turn to the very public showdown with Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defense. Second guessing the secretary of defense about Iraq is nothing new. Half a dozen former generals continue to do it.

But today, his critics did something they seldom get to do. They confronted him -- ambushed him, really, face-to-face. And some of the toughest questions came from a 27-year veteran of the CIA in the audience.

CNN John Roberts reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The first came from a woman who brought a banner, accusing Rumsfeld of war crimes. As most protesters are in a room full of administration friendly folks, she lost her banner and was quickly led out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want to hear it.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good for you, Sgt. Yorks (ph).

ROBERTS: The next attack came a short five minutes later. Another woman with another banner accusing Rumsfeld of lying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These lies on Iraq. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). You lied about everything.

ROBERTS: But this one, the secretary just couldn't let go.

RUMSFELD: You know, that charge is frequently leveled against the president for one reason or another, and it is so wrong.

ROBERTS: In truth, Rumsfeld never said Iraq's oil would pay for the war, but his then-deputy Paul Wolfowitz did say it would pay for the aftermath.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.

ROBERTS: Hecklers, like the one who stood with his back to the secretary during the speech, couldn't rattle a man with Rumsfeld's steel. But in an extraordinary piece of public theater, Ray McGovern, who claimed to be a former CIA analyst, took on Rumsfeld on mano a mano over prewar claims Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

RAY MCGOVERN, FORMER CIA ANALYST: You said you knew where they were.

RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were. And we were...

MCGOVERN: You said you knew where they were. Near Tikrit, near Baghdad and northeast, south and west of there. Those are your words.

RUMSFELD: My words, my words were that...

ROBERTS: Well, we looked up what his words were and found that in an appearance on ABC's "This Week," three years ago, Rumsfeld said this.

RUMSFELD: We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

ROBERTS: With what appeared to be the facts on his side, McGovern kept going. An exchange that lasted a full two minutes and 35 seconds.

MCGOVERN: I'd like an honest answer.

RUMSFELD: I'm giving it to you.

MCGOVERN: We're talking about lies and your allegation that there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie? Or were you mislead?

ROBERTS: Hold on. Did Rumsfeld ever say bulletproof? According to the "New York Times," he did. September 27, 2002, in Atlanta. And a month later he admitted saying it. But a year after that, he told the National Press Club, bulletproof? Not me.

RUMSFELD: I did not say that.

ROBERTS: But, back to the action in Atlanta.

RUMSFELD: Why do you think that the men and women in uniform every day when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq put on chemical weapon protective suits? Because they liked the style? They honestly believed that there were chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons on his own people previously, he'd used them on his neighbor the Iranians, and they believed he had those weapons. We believed he had those weapons.

ROBERTS: And with that, they declared an end to the face-off. But unlike the other opponents to the war, McGovern took his seat and remained quiet through the rest of the speech.

John Roberts, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, we'll talk with Ray McGovern after the break.

Plus, their critics call them vigilantes. They say they're simply doing their best to keep America safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM DONNELLY (ph), MINUTEMEN VOLUNTEER: Take a look right there. It's wide open. So if there's a fence there when we leave here, then we will have left the border more secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: One group of minutemen stepping up their efforts to keep illegal immigrants out with a fence -- a fence they're building on their own and want some volunteers to help.

Plus, this is what the world saw in Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's latest video. And then there's what we didn't see at first -- the terrorist leader having some trouble with his own gun. We'll tell you why the Pentagon wants you to see this part of the tape, when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Today Donald Rumsfeld was asked, point blank, why he lied about Iraq. The defense secretary said he didn't lie. But the questions continued. Asking them was a civilian, a man named Ray McGovern. He's a former CIA analyst. He's also an outspoken critic of the Bush administration, who was attending Mr. Rumsfeld's speech in Atlanta.

I spoke with Mr. McGovern earlier about what Secretary Rumsfeld now thinks about the case for war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Do you think he still believes that there were WMD?

MCGOVERN: I think still is the wrong word there.

COOPER: You don't think he ever believed it?

MCGOVERN: No. It's very clear that this was a very cynical attempt to do what they wanted to do, namely make war on Iraq, and that they decided to do that shortly after 9/11.

And my former colleague Paul Pillar, who is the most senior national intelligence officer for the Middle East and for counterterrorism, when he says, as he did just yesterday, that there was an organized campaign of manipulation of the intelligence to prove a tie between Iraq and al Qaeda; the objective, of course, to make the American people think that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11.

When Pillar comes out with that information, then I think we need to make sure the American people know that we knew at that time that there was no such tie. COOPER: He didn't answer or respond to the bulletproof question at first. You asked basically, you reiterated the bulletproof and said that he indicated there was bulletproof evidence of a link between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. He then came back to it, though, and said well, it's a fact that Zarqawi was in Iraq. And you pointed out that -- well, what did he say then?

MCGOVERN: Well, you know, I was so glad that he disingenuously offered that, because Zarqawi was not under any al Qaeda or Saddam Hussein control. He was in the northern part of Iraq where no one held sway, not Saddam Hussein, certainly not al Qaeda. And so to adduce Zarqawi as a link with al Qaeda was disingenuous.

COOPER: He did then go on to say, well, he was also in Baghdad. And you pointed out, yes, when he went to the hospital.

MCGOVERN: Yes, right. Baghdad was where the best hospital was when he needed treatment. See, Rumsfeld is above the fray. And he believes that the audience and most of the audience there today, of course, fits this mold. They won't question him on these things. Who knows these details? Well, we know them. Why? Because it was our profession to follow such details. And we used to be able to apply our techniques and our trade craft to foreign leaders. And it's ironic in the extreme that we need to do media analysis and leadership studies on our own leaders to find out whether they're telling the truth, or they're telling lies.

COOPER: How can you prove, though, a lie? I mean, you're alleging an intent to mislead, a belief that they knew there were no WMD, that they knew Saddam wasn't really an imminent threat, and they chose to go to war anyway. And they faked, they manipulated, they handpicked intelligence.

Others will argue, you know, they -- maybe they, you know, they believed they had it and so they looked for the intelligence that matched their belief, but that they actually did believe it.

COOPER: We have the minutes of his discussions with Tony Blair, the British prime minister. On the 31st of January, 2003, where the president says, there really, really aren't any weapons of mass destruction to be found, but we need some way to make this war. Maybe, yes, that's a good idea, maybe we'll paint one of our you toos (ph) with U.N. colors and hope that it gets shot down. Or maybe we'll get a defector out that will attest to the presence of weapons of mass destruction. Or there's an outside chance we can just assassinate Saddam Hussein. That's on the record. The British will vouch for that.

We also have the Downing Street memos where the head of British intelligence came back from consultations with George Tenet in July 2002 and said, the intelligence and the facts are being fixed around the policy.

The evidence on ties between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, OK, that's what we're really talking about, 69 percent of the American people believed that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 when we went to war with Iraq. That was exactly what the administration wanted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And that was Ray McGovern, the man who confronted Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld today.

Coming up, he's the most wanted man in Iraq, and he doesn't know how to use a weapon?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he didn't show you were the clips that I show you. Wearing New Balance sneakers with his uniform, surrounded by supposedly competent subordinates who grab the hot barrel of a just fired machine gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: A new videotape surfaces of a mass murderer. The Pentagon calls it a blooper reel. You be the judge, yourself.

Also on the border with the minutemen and how they're filling the gaps -- saying they're filling the gaps to stop illegal immigrants from entering America. They're building a fence and they want your help. Next, on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, few of any groups have done more to highlight lax border security than the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. They critics say they're vigilantes. They say they simply monitor the border and try to alert Border Patrol agents to where illegals are crossing.

As the controversy heats up and the lines on the border become even more firmly drawn, the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps has decided to start building a fence by themselves on parts of the frontier where there is none.

This past weekend we watched them do it. Another skirmish in the "Battle on the Border."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM DONNELLY (ph), MINUTEMEN VOLUNTEER: Who's coming to a neighborhood near you?

COOPER (voice-over): Saturday morning in a southern California trailer park, Tim Donnelly (ph) addresses a group of Minutemen volunteers.

DONNELLY (ph) It's a great day to be a vigilante.

COOPER: Vigilantes is what their critics and President Bush have called them, but the Minutemen say they are merely being vigilant, patrolling the border, alerting authorities when they spot illegal immigrants crossing over. DONNELLY (ph): The vigilante word for us is now a badge of honor. Because we know we're not vigilantes. We don't operate outside the law. But we are filling a gap.

COOPER: Today, however, the Minutemen are stepping up their actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patriot 10, this is Patriot Two, do you copy?

COOPER: For the first time, they plan to build a fence along the border. It's a new front in their battle against illegal immigration. About 100 volunteers have shown up, and they're driving to an undisclosed location along the U.S.-Mexican border. They don't know how authorities will react when they start to build the fence.

(On camera): This part of the border where the Minutemen are working today, there is a fence, probably about 12 feet high. But the problem is, it just stops where these rocks are. Then the border is just completely open.

When you see this, what do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Why does it stop? It wouldn't be that hard to build it across the rock.

COOPER (voice-over): Armed with fence posts and barbed wire, the volunteers quickly begin construction. A Border Patrol helicopter flies overhead, but authorities make no attempt to stop the fence building.

DONNELY (ph): Well, yes, it's symbolic in a way because we want the government to see us actually building the fence. But take a look right there. It's wide open. So if there's a fence there when we leave here, then we will have left the border more secure than we found it.

COOPER: While volunteers build the fence, others prepare food.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's more American than hot dogs?

COOPER: Hot dogs and apple pie. The atmosphere is festive and patriotic. There are American flags on napkins and banners, in flower pots, even on dogs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to get our country back.

COOPER: In what way?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Illegals are illegal. At least it was when I went to school.

COOPER: For many of those here, it's their first time volunteering with the Minutemen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel very passionate about the issue itself, but also, it's one of the few issues I can effect because I can't do anything about the deficit, or I can't do anything about the war in Iraq.

COOPER: You don't seem like a vigilante.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope not. I'm not. I don't think any of us do. And there's a lot of women in this organization.

COOPER: Chelsea Scavenger (ph) picks up trash left behind by illegal immigrants. She finds water bottles and booties.

CHELSEA SCAVENGER (ph), MINUTEMEN VOLUNTEER: These are booties. People who cross over put these on their feet. See, this is very nicely made. They've got the tie thing so it doesn't fall off their feet, and they leave no tracks.

COOPER (on camera): Why are they wearing booties? Why not shoes?

SCAVENGER (ph): Because then they can get their footprints more easily and Border Patrol can find them.

COOPER: So if they're wearing booties, they don't leave footprints?

SCAVENGER (ph): Correct.

DONNELLY (ph): I'm looking around, and I see a whole lot of Americans that are willing to do the job that the American government and even the illegal aliens don't want to do.

COOPER (voice-over): By the end of the day, the Minutemen have finished a makeshift fence some 150 yards long. For Tim Donnelly (ph), it's both a symbol and a start.

What do you think you accomplished today?

DONNELLY (ph): As I look down this line, I am overwhelmed with just a sense that this is an idea whose time has come. And I think we have -- probably the most significant thing we will have accomplished today is we're sending a picture to the Senate. You know? We're going to e-mail them a message that just says, here's what Americans want. Americans of all backgrounds, Americans, some of whom are legal immigrants, young and old alike, they're just Americans out here expressing themselves without using words. They're using posthole diggers, they're stringing barbed wire and they're saying, we want our border to be secured.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, Chris Simcox is the founder and president of the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. I spoke with him earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It seems as though Minutemen are moving to new territory, actually trying to erect fences on the border. Why do you think that's a new avenue to go down? CHRIS SIMCOX, MINUTEMENT CIVIL DEFENSE CORPS: Well, clearly, Anderson, every poll that you see across the country, Americans, whether you're Democrat or Republican doesn't matter. We're all concerned about border security. Everyone agrees that fences work in certain areas. And Border Patrol needs that support. So we're coming to the aid, private enterprise is going to come to the aid of American citizens and get involved in border security.

COOPER: I talked to a Border Patrol agent a couple of weeks ago in Arizona, who said, look, you can build a fence 500 feet tall and 50 feet deep and people are still going to find some way to tunnel under it or through it or around it.

SIMCOX: What a defeatist attitude. And again, Senator McCain, you know, or Kennedy, or anyone who refuses and tells Americans we can't do this job, that's such a defeatist attitude. That's not the American creed or the American can do attitude. We can.

COOPER: But in reality, I mean, you look at the San Diego border, and you know, it's a pretty impressive border. They got multiple fences, they have cameras, they have sensors, they have a lot of hard working Border Patrol agents, and yet someone can dig a 2,400 foot tunnel underneath the border and have it operating for who knows how long?

SIMCOX: Right, and that's because we're not utilizing technology in the most efficient way. Look, if a fence around the White House is good enough for the president of the United States, it's good enough for the American people to have a fence on their southern border to stop the criminal activity and the drugs and bring an end to the human misery in that desert and show Americans that they are serious about Homeland Security.

COOPER: So you want a complete fence along the U.S.-Mexican border and along the U.S.-Canadian border?

SIMCOX: No. No, in fact, my ultimatum to the president was by May 25, you must declare a state of emergency, sign an executive order, work with Congress, who have already spoken about the fences, and we need National Guard and we need military reserves personnel to be training along that border to immediately provide Border Patrol with the manpower they need.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, coming up, boycott backfire. The negative effect the immigration protest may have had on their own cause. We'll take a look at the response from Congress and where the battle over the border stands today.

Also, a new tactic in America's fight against the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Will mocking him help weaken his power? The terrorist outtakes, the blooper reel no terrorist would want you to see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: We knew what Abu Musab al-Zarqawi can do, we've seen it with our own eyes. He sliced the throat of American Nick Berg. Last week he surfaced with a new videotape full of threats. But there was more to the tape and the Pentagon wants you to watch it. And the reasons? Well, those are obvious.

With all the angles tonight, CNN's John Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: It is a totally new tactic in the propaganda war against Zarqawi. President Bush had demonized him, even made him a campaign issue.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a dangerous man. He hates what we stand for.

ROBERTS: Now the U.S. military says Zarqawi is a bumbler, a wannabe leader who can't even handle a machine gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's very proud of the fact that he can operate this machine gun.

ROBERTS: With captured outtakes from al Qaeda-produced video, General George Lynch mocked Zarqawi and his assistants as the gang that can't shoot straight.

GENERAL GEORGE LYNCH: Here is Zarqawi, the ultimate warrior, trying to shoot his machine gun. He's shooting single shots. He looks down, can't figure it out. Calls his friend to come unblock the stoppage.

ROBERTS: This scene was carefully left out of an Internet video that only showed a muscular Zarqawi fiercely wielding the weapon.

(On camera): I reviewed the outtakes with CNN's Security Analyst Richard Falkenrath, who believes they could be damaging to Zarqawi's image in the Arab world.

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I think it would play pretty badly. I mean, Arabs traditionally like strong men, men who really are strong leaders, fighters. And that's how he's tried to portray himself in the past. This video shows him as a bit of a bumbler.

ROBERTS (voice-over): But why would the U.S. after building Zarqawi into the uber-terrorist and using the full force of the military to go after him, suddenly turn 180 and say he's incompetent?

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think they're trying a little bit of everything. I think this is just a small tactical move in the psychological warfare game. And we hope that it might happen to take Zarqawi down a notch among some of his followers or perhaps even if we get lucky, make him look so silly that somebody wants to knock him off. ROBERTS: General Lynch also took aim at Zarqawi's attire, mocking his tennis shoes, though they are the footwear of choice for militias and insurgents in the Middle East.

And in an obvious violation of weapons 101, Lynch pointed out that another aide grabs the machine gun's hot barrel, burning his hand. The very picture of incompetence, he seemed to think.

LYNCH: It makes you wonder.

ROBERTS: No one has previously accused Zarqawi of being incompetent. He has certainly proven he can carry out major attacks against American and Iraqi targets. And it's believed he wielded the knife in the killing of U.S. hostage Nicholas Berg.

But the U.S. insists it is closing in on Zarqawi. And now destroying his credibility, appears part of the plan.

FALKENRATH: Well, I think it's one round in an ongoing propaganda war. And it's a loss for him on this one.

ROBERTS (on camera): The U.S. military believes it was hot on Zarqawi's trail and may have just missed him at the safe house south of Baghdad where the video outtakes were found.

But in portraying him as a bumbler, officials run the risk that if Zarqawi were to launch another major attack, they may look foolish for doubting his abilities.

John Roberts, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Also critics say, if he's such a bumbler, why can't we catch him?

No matter what you think about the video of al-Zarqawi, his impact in Iraq seems extensive. Here's the raw data. Today the Pentagon said about 90 percent of the suicide bombers in Iraq are linked to al-Zarqawi. And a recent State Department report suggested al-Zarqawi wants to expand his influence worldwide, noting his network has claimed responsibility for attacks in Jordan in the past year, three nearly simultaneous hotel bombings that killed 67 people, you will remember. And an attempted missile strike against U.S. navy ships. The target was missed but a Jordanian soldier was killed.

Another terrorist, one in this country was sentenced today. Zacarias Moussaoui received six life sentences with no chance of parole for his role in the September 11 attacks. He was forced to listen as three 9/11 family members confronted him and conveyed their immense suffering and loss. Moussaoui was clearly shaken up.

When he finally spoke, though, it was to mock the U.S. The judge perhaps had the strongest words, though. She worked in words from Poet T.S. Eliot, telling the terrorist, quote, "You came here to die in a great big bang of glory, but to paraphrase Eliot, instead you will die with a whimper."

When it comes to the issue of illegal immigration, at the end of the day, all the protests won't matter. What will is congressional legislation. Some doubt that a bitterly divided Congress will get anything passed any time soon. We'll look at who the winners and losers could be.

And speaking of winners and losers, people are calling one guy in New York both. Whatever you think of David Blaine, one thing's for sure, right now he's in a bubble and he's all wet. We'll have an update.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: The battle over legal immigration is heating up on the streets and in Congress. The president wants lawmakers to end the debates and pass sweeping reforms, reforms that will no doubt affect millions of people. And the protests may not have actually helped their future.

CNN Joe Johns, now with the latest from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a movement for social change. Sounds like a movement for social change. In fact, it has many of the same deeply divided emotions and high stakes of the Civil Rights era.

But will those protesters succeed in pressuring Congress to do what they want or will it backfire? Are people here in the know all of a sudden feeling heat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You bet. America still runs this place. We don't.

JOHNS: So what effect is the pressure having? Because if this is a national movement, it's moving pretty slowly on Capitol Hill. Why? In the first place, this the high risk politics, Republican against Republican against the president, with Democrats seeing an opportunity and fearing it could turn on them right before the midterm elections.

That said, we asked senators whether all the hoopla, demonstrations, foreign flags and all, including that day of absence this week, have helped or hurt the cause of comprehensive immigration reform. A big supporter of it is Democrat Edward Kennedy.

(On camera): Are people on Capitol Hill being pushed apart or brought together by the demonstrations? Have they been helpful or hurtful?

REP. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, I don't -- I think for the most part, this one we had in Washington probably two weeks ago, it was an extraordinary family situation. There were children running around, eating ice cream. JOHNS: Still, Democrat Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and others say the protests have been impressive, but also potentially polarizing.

(On camera): The Mexican flags, the star spangled banner in Espanol. Is that noise or is that a serious part of the debate?

SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD (D), WISCONSIN: I don't know that that's a central part of the debate. I think what it does is remind people that there is a very large group of people in this country who are Latino. It's unfamiliar to people. It's jarring to some. But I think the bottom line is these individuals are really excited about being in America.

JOHNS (voice-over): But there's also that nagging issue of whether it's OK to be illegal and demonstrating about it.

SEN. JEF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: I think the American people don't feel good about a protest that says we don't have to comply with American law.

JOHNS: The fact is, this all started after House Republicans passed a bill to beef up immigration law enforcement, which immigrant activists saw as so onerous, they took to the streets. That measure contained no so-called pathway to citizenship for the roughly 12 million undocumented immigrants who are already living here.

Now, though, Republican Senator Chuck Hagel and some colleagues have a new immigration bill with a lot of support that bridges the gap. But it's in a holding pattern in the Senate. Hagel says immigration has suddenly become such a hot issue because the congress just put it off for too long.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: The big issues like should we increase worker visas? Should we increase the ratio of green cards? What do we do about the 12 million illegal aliens in this country? How do we deal with these things? These are all imperfect answers that we'll come up with. They are deeply held and passionate and emotional. I understand that. But things aren't getting better. We need to confront it.

JOHNS: When they confront it is the issue now. But that's been the issue for years.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Earlier tonight I put the issue to our political roundtable. John Roberts, John King and Candy Crowley, part of the best political team on television.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So John Roberts, what are the chances that a majority of Republicans will come together on the immigration issue? ROBERTS: Very difficult, Anderson, because you've got two very powerful forces in the Republican party at odds with each other. You have the ultra-conservatives who really want to crack down on illegal immigration. Anything that smacks of amnesty is an athema (ph) to them and they'll never accept. And then on the other side, you've big business which really likes the idea of having a cheap workforce, a cheap labor force. And so until those two sides can find some sort of middle ground, perhaps around one of the proposals that's being floated by either President Bush or Senators John McCain or others, you're going to see them still standing a long way apart.

COOPER: And John King, I mean, it seems like Congress can't pass anything right now.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not just immigration reform, Anderson. That one's getting a lot of attention right now. But they're also fighting over spending bills, emergency spending in part to fund Iraq and Afghanistan and continued Katrina relief. They're also fighting over so-called lobbying reforms.

And you have the same problem on all of these issues. First, Republicans fighting Republicans. Just like on immigration reform, Republicans don't agree on spending, don't agree on lobbying reform. And even if they could, then they would have the Democrats waiting to fight them. And the Republicans have very narrow majorities in both the House and the Senate. With each passing day, we're one day closer to election day and more and more politics factor in, too.

COOPER: And Candy, it doesn't seem like that long ago that this president was saying, you know, that he had earned political capital and he was going to start spending it. If Republicans remain divided, it doesn't seem like this president has much influence to exert on the party to unite them.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He doesn't. And he's in a tough spot, as are all Republicans. Because the fact of the matter is that conservatives form the core of the Republican party. These are people who in a midterm election which traditionally has fewer voters coming to the polls than a presidential election, the people that go to the polls at midterms are conservatives. So, if you pass an immigration bill in the Republican controlled Senate and the Republican controlled House and it's signed by the Republican president, they are really making furious the very conservative voters that they need to have come out to the polls.

COOPER: And John King, I mean, is it really that cynical in Washington that, I mean, I don't want to sound polyanish, but that the Democratic strategy is basically just sit back and watch these guys go at it and rip themselves apart?

KING: You're not sounding polyanish. For the most part that is true. You have seen some effort. Senator Ted Kennedy, for example, stepping forward, trying to get the immigration compromise to the floor in the Senate, knowing perhaps it would collapse in the House. But some Democrats are saying let's do some policy first. We have six more months to the election day. We have plenty of time to fight and squabble. But the majority position of the Democratic party right now is, if the Republicans can't get their act together, let's not help them.

COOPER: Candy, when -- you know, you're seeing pictures now of these demonstrations that happened on Monday. It's easy to get caught up in all the excitement and the hoopla of a demonstration and rallies. In the cold light of day, you know, at the end of this week, does it look like those rallies will actually delay legislative action?

CROWLEY: Well, they may. I mean, I think that Congress was quite capable of delaying it on its own without having all those demonstrations. But the fact of the matter is, we've discussed this, that they in some cases they backfired, that some people looked at those and thought, you know, the Mexican flags bother me, the sort of the symbols around this have become very powerful.

COOPER: John Roberts, Candy mentioned those flags. I mean, that is an issue that people keep coming back to, seeing those Mexican flags on the street.

ROBERTS: Oh yes, no question that it certainly turned a lot of people off. It hasn't played well among the general public, not just individual groups of people, you know. Don't forget, the very first line of the oath of citizenship when you become an American. It's when you renounce any allegiance to any prince, potentate, state or sovereignty. It is not America second or America first. It's only America.

So, for people who want to become Americans, who are here illegally, to be out in the streets, parading around with the Salvadoran flag or the Mexican flag, people who fought with blood, sweat and tears for the sovereignty of this nation and for American pride are saying, you better get everything straight if you really want to become a part of this nation.

COOPER: John Roberts, John King, Candy Crowley, thanks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: One of the biggest names in music passes a major landmark. We'll have that in a moment. But first, one of the biggest names in news Erica Hill, from "HEADLINE NEWS," joins us with some of business stories -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aw thanks.

All right, so investors smiling on Wall Street today. Impressive retail sales, falling oil prices and strong earnings all helped to send the market soaring. The Dow closing up 38 points, a new six-year high. The NASDAQ gained 19. The S&P rose four. And about those retail numbers we mentioned? It seems Americans just keep buying. And that gave merchants the best April and the best month in, get this, two years. Wal-Mart, Nordstrom, Target or, as some like to say, Tar-jay, and others all reporting better than expected results. Also on the rise with those retail sales, mortgage rates hitting a four-year high of 6.59 percent for a 30-year loan. Inflation worries are playing a role there in the hike. Experts say the higher rates could slow housing sales later this year. The question of when the bubble will burst, Anderson. It never goes away.

COOPER: In New York, it's like endlessly debated, every day, every conversation.

HILL: At least you always have something to talk about besides the weather.

COOPER: That's true. Erica, thanks.

I guess the other thing some New Yorkers are talking about is David Blaine. He's supposed to be an illusionist. But where is the illusion in sitting in a tank of water day after day. Actually a big bubble of water. We'll check in with pruned finger David Blaine.

Also later, what happens when the voice of a rebel generation gets -- well, hits middle age, let's just say. "Rolling Stone" magazine, nearly 40 years and 1,000 issues old. We'll take you inside the legendary magazine, on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, Magician David Blaine apparently will do anything to try and get the world's attention. And you know what? Apparently he's got it. Blaine is living the life aquatic in front of New York's Lincoln Center.

CNN's Jeanne Moos paid him a visit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Want to feel like a fish in a bowl? David Blaine is bowling them over with his mermaid act, make that merman.

(On camera): They could have fish in there with you, right?

DAVID BLAINE, MAGICIAN: The fish would probably die right away because the water's 96 degrees.

MOOS (voice-over): But lest you think this is like "Pretty Woman." frolicking in a tub...

BLAINE: It's not the prettiest sight to behold.

MOOS: Blaine is referring to his hands. Wow. You look like a corpse -- I mean your hands do.

Blaine entered his sphere Monday. Now, more than halfway through his week-long submersion, his hands are looking like something out of a monster movie. These are hands only a diving website could love. Why are your hands so bad?

BLAINE: Anywhere that your body doesn't have hair is not meant for the water. So the hands and the feet are the first to really take a beating.

MOOS: But he's still having fun.

KELLY RIPA, REGIS AND KELLY: He's tickling my feet again.

MOSS: Kelly from "Regis and Kelly" joined Blaine live inside the sphere.

RIPPA: How and where are you going to the bathroom?

BLAINE: Oh, you're standing in it. Just kidding.

MOOS: Actually he's wearing a tube to take care of liquids. He hasn't eaten solids for weeks. Blaine's sure not gaining weight on this diet, glucose and minerals through a tube.

(On camera): Not exactly our idea of lunch.

(Voice-over): Blaine relaxes on the bottom of his sphere and sleeps in there. And like the star of "Splash," he doesn't grow fins when submerged. Blaine's extremities require twice daily massages with beeswax cream.

BLAINE: It hurts even just to put these things back on.

MOOS: Enjoy those bubbles, David because you'll soon be holding your breath. Trying to hold it for nine minutes to break the record. You got to hand it to Blaine, that's assuming he has any hands left.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Yikes.

How is this for an amazing feat? "Rolling Stone" magazine reaches issue 1,000. The life of a vibrant magazine in sound and picture is next on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It's the thrill that will get you when you see your picture on the cover of the "Rolling Stone." That's how the song goes, at least. And 1,000 covers later, though the magazine is now pushing 40. And its counterculture founders are in their 60s. The thrill has not gone away. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea of Rolling Stones started because I was a music fan and I was 21 years old, college dropout, and didn't have anything else to do.

What I wrote in the first issues, it was not only about music, but also about changes in the attitudes and the social changes that music embraced because we felt music stood for something, and it had a purpose, had a social purpose.

These are the days of the Beatles and Bob Dylan and so-called protest music, and the big social revolution.

The first cover was John Lennon. There was a publicity shot of a movie he had made. And really, we chose it because that's kind of all we had laying around at the moment.

Given the power of that picture and the event of his death, which that picture was about, there was no need for any headline on that cover. I think that was a really smart decision. There was nothing that needed to be said. No word more powerful.

Madonna is an artist who has changed her image and her look every couple of years. And she's very, very involved with her imagery and with the photographers and what she's going to wear and what she's going to say.

"Rolling Stone" has a tradition that's been going on really for years, since Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin died in 1968 or '69. The tribute issue, the special issue, where the cover is an image that's a symbol of just one person. And generally speaking, the only thing on the cover is that person's name and date.

In terms of controversial, there Billy Idol. Here he is in kind of a leather outfit with crosses and you just know that that's going to be controversial, that's going to sell.

Janet Jackson's representatives came in one day and said, we have a picture that maybe you would want to consider for the cover. And they pull out this picture of her naked with her boyfriend's hands over her breasts. Stunning, provocative. Of course, no question about it.

The Kanye West cover was great, you know, him as -- with a crown of thorns, is it controversial? I guess sort of in a small way. But not terrifically, but it was a really beautiful looking image.

"Rolling Stones" specialty besides music and culture, has been politics. We've covered quite a bit. We've had many presidents on the cover. Generally, they're Democrats, the ones we liked. I think the only true Republican presidents we've had are Nixon when he quit and recently Bush when he's about to quit.

This is always a trip down memory lane, the wall of covers. Or sometimes we call it the wall of shame. You can get lost in here for days. Stories, thinking about old times, thinking about how beautiful we all were looking when we were young. You know, and you can see a history of our times, a history of our culture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: What an amazing history. Happy anniversary.

Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," U2's "The Edge," in New Orleans. Katrina literally washed musicians and their instruments right out of the city. "The Edge" has been quietly leading the effort to raise millions of dollars to help bring the music back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it is one of the great privileges. It's one of the only really great privileges of being well known, is that you can take that and use it for leverage for something like this. And I really feel strongly that anyone who earns their living from rock and roll, ultimately has a stake in this city and this region, and has a debt to this city and this region. Because this is where it all started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: "The Edge," tomorrow, on "AMERICAN MORNING," starting at 6:00 a.m., Eastern.

"LARRY KING" is next. He has an exclusive interview with former kidnapping victim Elizabeth Smart.

Thanks for joining us. See you tomorrow.

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