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NANCY GRACE

Will Judge Approve No-Jail-Time Plea Deal for Debra Lafave?; Cancun Wedding Turns Deadly

Aired March 20, 2006 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news out of a Florida courtroom in the felony child molestation trial case of cover-girl-turned-teacher Deb Lafave. Tonight, a bombshell. The mom of the alleged boy victim, a students of Debra Lafave`s, says he will not take the stand.
And tonight, double murder in paradise. A Cancun resort wedding turns deadly, deadly for the parents of the bride. Tonight, new developments.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, breaking news in the Cancun wedding murder mystery, a ripple effect throughout North America. A couple heads to an exclusive Mexican resort for their daughter`s wedding. They never made it down the aisle, the bride`s parents found murdered at the resort.

But first tonight, school teacher Debra Lafave, model-turned-teacher - - the alleged boy`s victim`s mom drops a bombshell in court. She will not allow him to take the stand. Will Lafave get the best of Lady Justice?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What she did is wrong, and I believe that she is being punished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On June 3rd of 2004, the defendant did perform oral sex on the victim, who was 14 years of age.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that`s the most appalling thing in this situation. You have a teacher that spotted, you know, what she wanted and did what she did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This plea negotiation is a direct result of the request of the victim`s family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It allows Debbie to avoid any prison time, and it allows her to continue with her mental health treatment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is the most important thing. He needs to move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What a bombshell in the courtroom. This school teacher allegedly had sex with her student. One judge agreed to a light sweetheart deal. Another judge said, No way, you`re going to trial. Tonight, the problem Lady Justice has is that Lafave may slip through the cracks.

Elizabeth, do we have that sound ready? As a matter of fact, this isn`t the first time this alleged child molester may have slipped through the cracks. At one point, it was actually argued she was too pretty to go to jail. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EBEN BROWN, NEWSRADIO 970 WFLA: Debra Lafave`s attorney, John Fitzgibbons, said he wants to keep her out of prison, that she was too pretty to go to prison. And today, he was able to convince the prosecution...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait!

BROWN: Yes?

GRACE: He didn`t want her to go to jail because she was to pretty for prison? Did I hear that, or am I crazy?

BROWN: No, you heard that.

GRACE: OK.

BROWN: That was the word from Fitzgibbons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. Whoa! Help me out. Leslie Snadowsky, investigative reporter, please tell it`s not true. There`s yet another speedbump. We`ve gotten past the "too pretty to go to jail" thing. You know what? We can all sit around and laugh. I laughed, too, when I first heard that quote.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: But now, the alleged boy victim`s mom doesn`t want him to testify. Without a victim`s testimony, there may be no case, Leslie!

LESLIE SNADOWSKY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, that`s true. The mother, on behalf of her son, says there`s no way that she wants her son to be revictimized again. She thinks a trial`s the worst thing, and she`s willing to plea bargain.

GRACE: Plea bargain to what?

SNADOWSKY: Well, basically, instead of jail time, which is what she initially wanted, she`s OK with, like, three years of house arrest, seven years probation. I believe she`s already registered as a sex offender, Debra Lafave. I believe that her teaching certificate`s already been taken away, and I think she has to wear an electronic monitor, if and when, you know, the court imposes that.

GRACE: An electronic bracelet.

SNADOWSKY: Yes, around her ankle.

GRACE: Has the world gone mad?

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: OK, Martha Stewart told a tall tale to federal prosecutors. She had to go to Alderson for lying. OK, anybody on the panel tonight could get a felony charge for lying, OK, and this woman is going -- OK. All right.

With me right now, Owen Lafave. This is Lafave`s ex-husband. He is joining us by phone. Mr. Lafave, thank you for being with us. You know, right when we think we`ve heard it all, then something new happens. Do you think your ex-wife will ever face justice?

OWEN LAFAVE, DEBRA LAFAVE`S EX-HUSBAND: You know, Nancy, first and foremost, I`d like to say I love your reaction to that. I think that is pretty much what the rest of the country felt when they heard that comment from her attorney. But you know, here we are again. The boy isn`t going to testify, and you know, the best we can hope for is really the equivalent to getting, you know, detention after school. You know, she`s got three years of house arrest, followed by seven years probation on the table, and I think it`s insufficient. I mean, she committed a crime here. She had a sexual relationship with a boy, and she deserves some jail time.

GRACE: To Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor. Wendy, you know, I`m shocked. I`m shocked this whole case may go straight down the tubes. You know, and the other thing is this. This young man, apparently, didn`t mind having sex driving from county to county in the back seat of a truck, all right, with windows all around.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: And now, the same kid that allegedly had his pants down in the back of a truck while somebody else is driving doesn`t want to take the stand? Help me out, Wendy.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, that`s actually an excellent point, Nancy, and I hadn`t thought of it. I don`t buy for one minute that the boy just doesn`t want to testify because he`s afraid of being ashamed. I mean, half the guys his age across the country are going, Yo, dude, aren`t you lucky? That`s a bunch of nonsense.

Look, there`s absolutely no doubt in my mind that if a male teacher had performed this exact sex act on a female child, there wouldn`t be any question, he would be gone, already locked up. Even if he was cute, gorgeous, ripped abs, who would care, right? He`d be gone.

The thing that galls me about this is the idea that somehow, it`s the mother of the victim thinks it`s OK to give her a plea bargain, then that`s OK with society. I got news for all the mothers out there who are crazy enough to think that. This is not a private lawsuit. This is the government`s prosecution of a criminal. It`s nice to hear what the victim says, but she can`t control this case. If I`m the judge, the boy will take the stand and I will insist that he testify. And if he doesn`t, I will hold him in contempt.

GRACE: Well...

MURPHY: ... and if he persists, I will throw him in jail. He will testify!

GRACE: You know -- back to Owen Lafave, Debra Lafave`s ex-husband. Owen, here`s the harsh reality when dealing with crime victims. The prosecutor, of course -- and I`m speaking as a former prosecutor -- wants to make the crime victim feel that they are getting justice in court. However, our duty is not to any single person. Our duty is to Lady Justice and to the public. And it is not OK for a child molester to slip through the cracks when someone doesn`t want to testify, Owen!

LAFAVE: Well, exactly. And I hate to say, you know, we need to set an example because, you know, as a society, I think we need to be responsible, and that`s not the type of message that we need to send. You know, we`re trying to set examples. But you know, we need to -- you know, actually, we do. I mean, we need to send a message that, you know, this is a crime. I mean, we`re dealing with a child that`s a minor, that can`t make decisions for themselves, and that`s why we have these type of laws in place. And you know, she needs to serve, you know, some amount of jail time.

GRACE: Now, Owen, question. At the beginning, you stood by your then wife, Debra Lafave. And there`s no doubt about it, she is beautiful -- beautiful on the outside, that is. When did you first realize these charges were true? We all know she tried to enter a guilty plea.

LAFAVE: Correct. And actually, Nancy in all honesty, I mean, that was something I did realize very shortly thereafter, and I promised her and her family I`d stay by her side through the criminal trials. And I didn`t realize what I had promised at the time. And you know, as time did go on, it got more and more difficult, and I realized it was something I couldn`t do. But you know, I knew shortly thereafter her arrest that, you know, she did commit these acts and that she was guilty.

GRACE: Owen, do you think that she had some kind of mental illness? I mean, when she`s spoken to the press or made appearances, she looks totally coherent.

LAFAVE: Yes. Nancy, again, I mean, I`m not a psychologist, so I can`t really speak to those issues. But I will say that, you know, I did spend a great deal of time with her, and there is no doubt that she has some severe emotional issues. But in my estimation, I mean, she`s not -- she`s not crazy. And you know, I guess I`ll just leave it at that.

GRACE: Well, Owen, stick with me just one moment. With us tonight, Owen Lafave. Owen is Debra Lafave`s ex-husband. Take a listen to this recorded phone call from Debra Lafave.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, I don`t want you to, like, get pregnant or anything. I was just thinking about it, and I was just thinking if, next time, now that we`ve had sex about three times, if I should use, like, a condom or something.

DEBRA LAFAVE: Oh! You`re being weird!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, all right. So what time are you planning on heading over?

DEBRA LAFAVE: Are you sure? Like, I just feel -- I mean, I don`t want you lying to your mom. I mean, it`s, like...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s all right. She`s gone in a sales meeting, like, all day.

DEBRA LAFAVE: You`re sure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DEBRA LAFAVE: Promise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DEBRA LAFAVE: Pinky promise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DEBRA LAFAVE: Say pinky promise!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pinky promise.

DEBRA LAFAVE: All right. Tell me a time.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Dr. Robi Ludwig, "pinky promise"?

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: What is wrong with her! She is a grown women entrusted with taking care of these children, and she`s "Pinky promise." She`s worried about telling the mom a lie? And let me get real for a moment. This 14- year-old young man didn`t sound like he had a problem on the phone.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, I mean, she looks like an adult on the outside, but clearly, she`s in a very regressed state. And what we know with some of these teachers who have affairs with these teenage boys is that they don`t view them as children, so that`s what separates them and makes them different from pedophiles. They have what`s called "romantic poor judgment." So when they`re getting involved with these boys...

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wait, wa-wait! "Romantic poor judgment"? Isn`t this felony child molestation?

LUDWIG: It is, but...

GRACE: Because I very carefully looked up the law...

LUDWIG: Yes.

GRACE: ... and in Florida, you know, they don`t call it rape, but it`s the same definition as rape across the entire country for a young person between 12 and 16.

LUDWIG: And if I were a lawyer, I`d be looking at it exactly the same way. But the difference is, Nancy -- and I`m not saying, legally, we should consider her any differently than any other person who has sex with a child who is underage. However, these teachers very often don`t view the children that they are having sex with as children.

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: They see them as romantic peers.

GRACE: What is that supposed to mean to me, that she doesn`t realize a 14-year-old boy is boy, is a child.

LUDWIG: Well, you have to remember, sometimes these teenage boys, they look more adult-like than others. Not all teenagers...

GRACE: Robi! Robi...

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: Hey, I`m not saying what she did...

GRACE: You`re scaring me!

LUDWIG: ... was right. I`m not saying what she did is right at all. And I think she should be punished, and I think she has problems...

GRACE: Robi!

LUDWIG: ... and I think we should definitely send a message out there...

GRACE: But did I just hear you say he looks older than 14?

LUDWIG: I don`t know if he does or not, but in these cases, Nancy, very often, the students that are chosen look more adult-like. They don`t look like children.

GRACE: OK.

LUDWIG: That`s all I`m saying.

GRACE: You know, to Wendy Murphy. How many times have you laughed like mad when a defense attorney said, Hey, she looked 18?

MURPHY: Right. Right.

GRACE: That`s not a defense under the law!

MURPHY: And he couldn`t help it because she looked so old. It was just his body just overcame him, and just he couldn`t help but rape her. Yes. I mean, look, I know there are psychological aspects to some of this stuff, but that is not a reason to give anybody slack or a plea bargain or a discount of any kind.

In fact, if you look at the way we measure it -- and I bet Robi knows this. if you look at the way we measure predatory behavior, risk of recidivism, sociopathy and things like that, which are very important in terms of predicting whether she`s likely to offend again -- which is the essential question here -- she will hurt another child because the kind of perpetrators we worry about the most are the ones who objectify and describe and talk about the kid as being adult-like. Those are the most dangerous predators!

I mean, I don`t care! If she said that, she goes to jail longer, not less, and she can get treatment in prison, which probably won`t work because these people aren`t fixable. But why can`t she get fixed behind bars?

GRACE: I want to go now to Eben Brown. He is with Newsradio 970 Florida. Welcome back, Eben. Thank you for being with us. Eben, what`s going on down there? First, there was all the confusion that one judge was going to take a sweetheart plea on, basically, child rape. I`ve got the statute right here. It is called lewd and lascivious offense, but it includes sex activity with a child between 12 and 16. And that`s what it is, it is child rape!

Now, one judge was going to take a sweetheart plea. The judge in the other county demanded a trial. Where do we stand, Eben?

EBEN BROWN, NEWSRADIO 970 WFLA: Good evening. We are waiting for Judge Halestansel (ph) in Marion County, Florida -- that`s the city of Ocala -- to issue a ruling. That judge was not going to accept the plea deal which kept Debra Lafave out of prison. He wanted to send her to trial. She`s facing up to 45 years up in that jurisdiction, and he said that -- that was worthy of a trial. He was quoted in a local newspaper as saying something of -- he wasn`t going to allow her good looks to make his decision for him.

And right now, we`re waiting on his ruling on whether or not this will go to trial. They did have a hearing about two weeks ago, where some people testified as to why the boy should not testify at a trial.

GRACE: Why shouldn`t he?

BROWN: Well, both the state prosecutors in Hillsborough County, which is Tampa, and a state psychologist, said that the -- putting this boy on the stand would make his life more difficult. He`s a little bit older now and he`s getting ready to apply to schools and...

GRACE: He`s 15. He`s 15.

BROWN: Yes, he is 15.

GRACE: You know what? The reality, Jason Oshins, a veteran attorney -- now, just for a minute, Jason, just a moment -- go with me on this. Just trust me. Go out a limb.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. All right, Nancy.

GRACE: Take off your defense hat. I know it`s hard.

OSHINS: Yes.

GRACE: No victim -- no crime victim...

OSHINS: Right.

GRACE: ... and speaking as a crime victim myself, no crime victim wants to take the stand. It`s horrible. It`s unpleasant. It`s upsetting. You get cross-examined usually, sometimes not. Of course nobody wants to. So where do you think this is coming from?

OSHINS: Well, on the victim`s end, obviously, his mother is controlling the situation. I know you said to take that out. But they don`t want the publicity anymore. And you know, as a prosecutor, you`ve spent a lot of time trying to convince victims of various crimes to go ahead and revisit the issue and testify -- to them, this has now become a charade, probably, and they want this over. And I`m sure the mother would like her son to move on with his life and not be a spectacle in the papers nationally, locally.

GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on just one moment! That excuse is way inappropriate! It is tired. This is still a juvenile victim. That name or that likeness, that photograph, that picture would not be broadcast. Absolutely not! So what`s your next -- what`s your next argument, Jim Porfido, defense attorney?

JIM PORFIDO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, in the interests of justice, the prosecution has got to evaluate the case, and there`s obviously proof issues in this case. There`s something that is going on behind the scenes that we`re not being made aware of, particularly the state, the prosecutor has made a recommendation, based upon their review of the evidence in the case. The defense attorney has acquiesced. There is a plea bargain. It is not the judge`s function to throw out a plea.

GRACE: Is that true, Eben Brown? Is there a plea agreement on the table?

BROWN: ... plea agreement on the table. So far, it`s already been accepted in Hillsborough County. She -- and they`re waiting on it in Marion County. They`re waiting on this judge...

GRACE: It`s straight probation, isn`t it.

BROWN: It`s three years of house arrest, which they call community control, followed by seven years of probation, yes.

GRACE: OK. Not a day of jail time. What`s the name of the judge making the decision?

BROWN: Right now, we`re waiting on Judge Halestansel in Marion County.

GRACE: Judge Halestansel in Marion County. I say, why not let a jury decide?

Very quickly -- we`ll all be right back -- let`s go to tonight`s "Trial Tracking," Elizabeth. A Houston judge today postponed the capital murder retrial of Andrea Yates. This decision came at the request of Yates`s defense, Yates pleading not guilty by reason of insanity, on trial for the drowning deaths of her five children, three in this indictment. They range from ages 6 months to 7 years. Now, Yates`s ex-husband, Rusty Yates, divorced Yates in March 2005. He married again on Saturday, two days before his ex-wife`s trial due for court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: All shots (ph) of a model-turned teacher, Debra Lafave, who now is this close to a straight probation sentence in a charge of sex with a child.

I want to go back to Eben Brown with Newsradio 970 WFLA there in Florida. Eben, again, welcome back. Eben, it`s just very difficult for me, as a victim`s rights advocate and former prosecutor, to accept that in cases of full-blown sex with a 14-year-old child, this is not even going to a jury. That`s the way it`s shaping up tonight. Why, Eben?

BROWN: The mother of the child, the victim, doesn`t want the boy to testify. And the state...

GRACE: Is there a civil suit, Eben?

BROWN: There`s no civil suit.

GRACE: Do you think there will be?

BROWN: I don`t know. I think there may be something about a civil suit in that -- in the wording of the plea agreement that they`re trying to make in Marion and the one made in Hillsborough, but I really don`t know. And I`d like to correct...

GRACE: You know what, Eben? I`m sorry. I couldn`t quite hear you. What did you say?

BROWN: I said that there was -- I don`t know anything about a civil suit in the works. There may be something in the wording of the plea deals for both Hillsborough County and Marion County about a civil suit, but I`m just -- I`m not sure.

And I`d like to clarify something that you had some tape of me earlier saying about the "too pretty for prison" quote from her lawyer, John Fitzgibbons.

GRACE: Right.

BROWN: The actual -- his actual words were more of to put someone as attractive as Debra Lafave into the prison system would be like throwing raw meat to the lions, and I think...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m sure the other ladies -- I`m sure the other ladies at the big dollhouse will take offense to being compared to the animals out in a jungle. Some of them are behind bars for shoplifting. She`s looking at jail time for raping a child! So you tell him who is the lion, who is the predator, Eben, the shoplifter or this lady that allegedly had sex with a child!

BROWN: Well, I guess it depends on physical size in the prison system. I don`t know. Never been to prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FITZGIBBONS, LAFAVE`S ATTORNEY: To place an attractive young woman in that kind of hell-hole is like putting a piece of raw meat in with the lions. I`m not sure that Debbie would be able to survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Everyone is now familiar with the model-turned- school teacher Debra Lafave. She has felony charges in two counties for sex with her boy student. Now, apparently, the judge is considering a plea deal where she will serve straight probation in something called house arrest, where she can sit around the house and wear an ankle bracelet.

You know my fear, Wendy Murphy? My fear is this, that cases will begin to be judged by who the defendant is and who the victim is. I`m talking about, are they beautiful, are they rich, are they white, are they well educated? Will that determine justice, Wendy?

MURPHY: You know, as if we don`t have enough of a problem with that issue in this country, people watched Michael Jackson, you know, pay somebody off in 1993 $20-some-odd-million, and a very important case went away. Everyone thinks that`s because he was a wealthy celebrity. That hasn`t changed. I mean, we have a bad taste in our mouths about these kinds of problems. And who`s going to trust the system? We already have too much cynicism about the system.

The thing that I thought was so important about your question about the civil lawsuit, Nancy, is because I fear that may be the ugly story behind the story, that the family is taking some kind of remuneration in exchange for not allowing the child to testify.

GRACE: Gotcha.

MURPHY: And you know what that`s called? That`s called corruption! You`re not supposed to indulge that, whether you`re the prosecutor or the judge! That`s corruption!

GRACE: And to Leslie Snadowsky, investigative reporter. Leslie, do you believe a civil suit is in the works?

SNADOWSKY: Well, I`m not sure, but I think everyone wants this case just to go away. I mean, I know the mother wants it to go away, and I know Debra Lafave wants it to go away. In fact, she showed up in court at the beginning of the month with an engagement ring. She`s about to get married again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debra LaFave needed to be punished. What she did was wrong, and I believe that she is being punished. There`s no guarantee that, if we had gone to trial, that she would go to prison.

My son is the most important thing. He needs to move on. He needs to move on. And this thing, it would have gone on for another, you know, two years, including Marion County.

I mean it -- not only once he got through this, then he`d have to do it all over again in Marion County. What kind of life is that for him? He didn`t deserve to be put in this position to start off with.

It was the trust of a teacher. You think you`re sending your children off to school, that they`re there to protect your children. And I think that`s the most appalling thing with this situation, is that you have a teacher that spotted, you know, what she wanted and, you know, went to the -- and did what she did, just an incredible breach in trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This is a shot of Pam Turner, who got hard jail time for sex with a student. Pam Smart, of course, got hard jail time for sex with a student, oh, and the little addition of murdering her husband. Beth Geisel, hard jail time, and, of course, Mary Kay Letourneau, who had children, two of them, by her student, hard jail time.

So back to Leslie Snadowsky, investigative, in this case, this would be a complete departure from what we have seen, absolutely no jail time. I just don`t see how the judge can go wrong with at least giving it to a jury. Let them decide.

SNADOWSKY: Well, you mentioned Mary Kay Letourneau, 7 1/2 years. There was a male chemistry teacher in Orlando in Florida, and I believe he got five years for having sex with a 15-year-old.

It`s really strange, I mean, this double-standard. I mean, a lot of people are saying this, well, now 15-, but 14-year-old, you know, he scored. He had sex with his beautiful, blonde teacher, and there is that double-standard, that maybe, you know, he got away with something great and wasn`t a crime.

GRACE: I want to go back to Owen LaFave. Owen, are you still with me?

LAFAVE: I am.

GRACE: Hey, Owen -- with us, Debra LaFave`s ex-husband -- Owen, when you first realized that these charges against your new bride were true, what was your immediate reaction?

LAFAVE: You know, just absolute heartbreak. You know, that`s a very difficult thing, you know, for anybody to hear that their wife is cheating. And the fact that it`s with a 14-year-old is even that more, you know, bizarre and initially hard to take. And, you know, it is probably one of the most difficult things in my life that I ever had to endure.

GRACE: Do you believe that your ex, Debra LaFave, is getting special treatment?

LAFAVE: You know, I think she is. And I think, you know, from the guests that you had on the show, it shows to me there is a precedent set that, you know, this is a sexual offender, and there should be a set amount of jail time. And, in this particular circumstance, I mean, what`s on the table is, you know, a very light sentence that does not involve any jail time.

GRACE: You know, Eben Brown is with us with NewsRadio 970 WFLA. I think I heard you, as we went to break, and maybe I lost hearing in my other ear, but did you tell me that Debra LaFave is engaged?

BROWN: I don`t think that was me, but, yes, she is engaged. She`s engaged to a high school sweetheart by the name of...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait! When you say high school, Debra LaFave, you`re scaring me.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: How old -- how old is the potential groom?

BROWN: From when she was in high school, 26 years old is her new fiance`s age.

GRACE: Leslie Snadowsky, was that you that dug up the engagement?

SNADOWSKY: Yes, I read in one of the reports that they got engaged, and she was sporting an engagement ring. And, again, she did meet him in high school the first time around.

GRACE: Who is this guy?

SNADOWSKY: His name`s Andrew Beck, again, a year older than her. And it looks like he`s willing to put up with all the baggage she has.

GRACE: OK, you know, Owen LaFave, I don`t want to get into anybody`s personal life, because I don`t care. I only care about justice in this case. Any words of wisdom you may want to pass on to the potential groom?

LAFAVE: Well, you know, I guess, you know, she needed a ring to match the ring on her ankle. But I would give him a little bit of caution in the sense...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: A little bit? God in heaven, man. Do you think, Owen -- I mean, hold on, thank God we`ve got a shrink with us tonight. Owen, do you think she needs some type of, like, brand of legitimacy of some sort?

I mean, with you, she had this beautiful marriage. Everybody thought you guys had the perfect marriage. I mean, look at these wedding photos. You look so in love, both of you. Do you think she needs some kind of a crutch to legitimize herself?

LAFAVE: You know, I think she does. And I think, you know, she found someone that she feels safe with, someone that knew her before all this happened, someone that she grew up with.

And, you know, I just have to caution, you know, his motives because, I mean, after all, I mean, I went into this not really knowing -- or not having gone through anything like this. But yet he`s getting into a relationship with a woman that`s, you know, a known sexual predator who had a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old.

And I don`t know. Like I said, you know, you probably want to use a little caution getting into that type of relationship.

GRACE: I`m trying to remember, when I was 14, I still had braces on my mouth. I was actually still wearing pigtails in my hair and was hoping I could be on the cheerleading squad. I mean, that`s what 14-year-olds -- 14 years old is in this country to many, many people.

Dr. Robi Ludwig, I mean, when you really think about -- you`re mentioning that a lot of kids look much older and all that, but think back for a second, Robi. Let`s just hold our horses. Age 14, 14.

LUDWIG: No, clearly...

GRACE: This is a child.

LUDWIG: Right. And very often, the children that are chosen in some ways are vulnerable and flattered or, in some ways, isolated, looking for validation. And quite frankly, it`s very exciting to be chosen by a very attractive, beautiful teacher.

Very often, these teachers are quite popular. And the children are drawn to them because they relate to them on the same level. I`m not saying...

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: I`m sorry, what?

GRACE: Why the engagement? I mean, she`s in the middle of felony proceedings on child molestation, all right? Why the engagement, just at this juncture?

LUDWIG: People get married for all kinds of reasons. And it`s very possible that she needs a man in her life in order to validate that she`s OK. And she may look to marriage for all the wrong reasons, which may be why she had this problem in the first place.

She expects a fantasy relationship that`s going to cure and resolve all of her issues. Of course, marriage does not do that in any way, shape or form, nor is it designed to do that. She gets disappointed, and she acts out.

I mean, clearly this is a girl who has very self-destructive impulses and hopefully, through treatment, she`ll realize that so she can get better.

GRACE: I want to go back to Jason Oshins, defense attorney. Jason, in a typical -- this is full -- I`m looking at the statute here. I have the Florida code, 800.04, lewd and lascivious offense, it is sex activity. This is sex with a child between 12 and 16. In your jurisdiction, sex with an adult and a child, what would that get, a typical sentence?

OSHINS: You know, Nancy, there is no typical sentence. You know that as a prosecutor. You got a statutory...

GRACE: All right. You know what?

OSHINS: You got a statutory charge at a minimum. But the reality is, is that you, as a prosecutor, you negotiate all the time with defense counsel, for various different reasons, not the least of which is the fact that there`s not enough space in any jails, in any state, to incarcerate everyone who`s guilty of something.

GRACE: OK, thanks, Jason. Now we`re down to a space problem in the jail. OK, you know what? You`ve used that one before.

OSHINS: Nancy, it`s the truth.

GRACE: Yes, right, OK. You want to take a crack at it, Jim Porfido? A typical sentence, can anybody just be honest and tell the viewers what a statutory rape charge usually carries?

PORFIDO: In New Jersey, it`s a sexual assault that carries with it -- it`s a second-degree crime, maximum is 10 years. A presumptive sentence, which means you`re likely to serve at least seven years of that. But it can be a sentence anywhere in the range of a three to seven years.

GRACE: Wendy Murphy, final thought on this before we move into our next case?

MURPHY: You know, Nancy, actually my understanding is, in Florida, this should be a mandatory term.

GRACE: Right.

MURPHY: I mean, look, Jessica Lunsford, what happened to her is partly because the sex offense problem in Florida is not treated seriously enough. Look, kids have to testify. If they`re the only eyewitness to a bank robbery, we don`t give the bank robber a discount to protect the child from testifying at trial.

We got it all backwards. We think it`s somehow good for kids to protect them from the trauma of the system. In fact, the research tells us that the kids we force to testify do better in the long run. If we let this case go this way, Nancy, you may as well put targets on the backs of every child in Florida.

GRACE: Eben Brown, before we go to our next case, what`s the name of the judge one more time?

BROWN: Judge Hale Stancil, Marion County, Florida.

GRACE: Hale Stancil, Marion County, Florida, Judge, if you`re listening tonight, Marion County, Florida, please let Lady Justice do her job.

Very quickly to tonight`s "Case Alert." New developments in the case of a missing 31-year-old woman from Ocilla, Georgia, schoolteacher Tara Grinstead. A criminologist on the case, Dr. Maurice Godwin, received a death threat just three hours after posting a possible time line of her events on a Web site. The timeline says Tara Grinstead abducted between 11:05 p.m. Saturday, October 22, 5:00 a.m. the following Sunday morning.

Godwin also says the perp comfortable being in that area and that his vehicle would not stand out at Tara`s house. Translation: Somebody she knows. There. It`s out there.

If you have info on this beautiful girl, a teacher with a heart of gold, please call the Irwin County sheriffs, 229-468-7459. There is a $200,000 reward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had heard this commotion in the hallway. We heard glass break. Somebody was screaming and swearing, and so we came out into the hallway to see what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think people have forgiveness for the people who did this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know, deep in their hearts, to forgive so quickly, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were fantastic people. They were caring...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caring, nice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You probably wouldn`t find better human beings than them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This lovely mother and father never made it down the aisle to give their little girl away at a paradise wedding, Cancun, Mexico. They were slain in the luxury hotel room at their resort.

I want to go straight to reporter with the "Globe and Mail," Timothy Appleby. Mr. Appleby, thank you for being with us. Bring us up to date.

I know, at first, these victims are Italian. And, of course, the first thing the Mexican government did was suspect the mob, that they had followed them all of the way down from Canada to slay them at the wedding. Then they blamed two soccer moms who were staying down the hall from the slain couple. What`s the latest from the Mexican government?

TIMOTHY APPLEBY, REPORTER, "GLOBE AND MAIL": Yes, hi. Well, no, it`s quite a tail. It`s a month. It was a month ago today that this happened. The latest is that there are now five police forces involved and the...

GRACE: Five?

APPLEBY: Yep.

GRACE: Oh, sounds like too many cooks in the kitchen. Why five?

APPLEBY: Well, you have two in Mexico. You have the state police and the federal police. And you have three in Canada, which is the RCMP, the York Regional Police, which is where the victims lived, and up in Thunder Bay, where, as you described, the soccer moms live, so that`s five.

GRACE: OK. So with five different law enforcements involved, what progress have they made, Tim?

APPLEBY: Well, I`d say it`s a work in progress. And it`s going slowly. I would expect it to continue slowly. This is a very, very -- I`m a crime reporter, and I`ve seen many homicides. I`ve not seen anything quite as difficult as this, for jurisdictional reasons, and mostly because there`s no -- we really do not know who did this.

GRACE: Well, hold on. I understand there`s an update tonight, a new development. We know that there was a hair found in one of the victim`s hands. It`s my understanding the wedding party, the actual wedding party, is giving DNA.

APPLEBY: Yes, that`s not new. That`s quite old. There certainly was a hair found on the palm of Mrs. Ianiero. And the wedding party, there were 16 left after the two were killed. They did all supply hair samples, which have been analyzed or are being analyzed in Mexico City by the police there.

GRACE: When did they give their hair samples?

APPLEBY: Oh, this would be a couple weeks ago.

GRACE: OK. Are there results back from that yet, Timothy?

APPLEBY: Not that I`m aware of. This is very hard to penetrate. The Mexican police have been really put on the back-foot, as we say, because it was clear that this was a less-than-stellar investigation.

GRACE: What do you mean by that, "less-than-stellar investigation"?

APPLEBY: Well, I cannot -- just to back up a second. I don`t entirely blame the police, but I do blame the hotel authorities, because what you had here was two different dynamics. You had a homicide investigation going in one direction. Who did this?

What you also had was a luxury hotel that was anxious to make as little fuss as possible. So enter the maid, among other things. And the crime scene was cleaned up, and very few people were questioned that we were able to tell. They really didn`t want this to be happening.

GRACE: You know, that`s a really, really good point...

(CROSSTALK)

APPLEBY: ... that you have not mentioned. It is entirely possible that the wrong people were killed.

GRACE: Oh, a whole mistaken-identity thing?

APPLEBY: Yes, you can`t overlook that, yes.

GRACE: I want to go out to Jason Oshins, defense attorney. Jason, we saw allegations of cover-up in the case of the missing groom by Royal Caribbean. They, of course, deny that.

Now, this is one of those all-inclusive, gated resorts, total lux. I`m sure you, as a well-heeled defense attorney have been to many of these exclusive resorts with your wife and family. Question -- all ribbing to you aside, friend -- how much do you think the investigation has been hindered by the resort trying to put a damper on it?

OSHINS: Nancy, we`ve seen this time and time again in tourism industry locations, where these types of situations happen. A crime is committed, and quickly they try to cover up and make it go away. It`s almost as if the local authorities, to some degree, are in cahoots with that concept of quickly trying to blame it on someone else, and that`s the way it goes.

GRACE: I`ll be right back with our panel, including Jason Oshins, Jim Porfido, Wendy Murphy, Robi Ludwig, and Timothy Appleby in the Cancun double murders.

But let`s go, Elizabeth, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Law enforcement on the look-out for an unknown assailant in a sex assault on a 15-year-old girl in the Houston area`s Westbury High School, Feb. 9.

You are looking at exclusive video of the suspect walking down the halls of the school just moments after the attack. Suspect is 25 to 30 years old, 5`9", 170 pounds. If you have info, call 713-222-TIPS.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And, remember, live coverage of a 73-year-old Vermont woman on trial for the murder of her 78-year-old husband. And, ladies, there`s a lover involved - - 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern -- allegedly, Court TV.

Please stay with us, everybody, as we recall Army Sergeant First Class Stephen White, 39, Talladega, Alabama. White is a father of seven, his fourth tour of duty, after 20 years serving his country, killed by a bomb. White`s brother says he was deeply religious. Tonight, our prayers with Stephen J. White`s family. White, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: You know, I`ve heard of a lot of false compliments and sucking up, but this is one honor I never thought I would get. To a special little girl in Macon, Georgia, named Logan, thank you for this beautiful picture of me that you drew and framed, and I hope I can live up to what you believe of me. Thank you, Logan.

Very quickly, back to our Cancun double-murder mystery. I want to go straight to a retired NYPD detective, Brosnan Investigations` Pat Brosnan. Something`s not adding up here. Something`s not right, Detective.

PAT BROSNAN, RET. NYPD DETECTIVE, BROSNAN INVESTIGATIONS: Well, actually there is a number of things that aren`t adding up. One of the first questions for me, Nancy, would be: Where are those two security guards and the two cleaners who haven`t been seen since the double-murder on February 20th?

GRACE: You know what? He`s right. The very fundamentals in the case, Wendy Murphy, it seems like a shoddy investigation. And we`re relying on the Mexican authorities to do our work for citizens of Canada.

MURPHY: Yes, I mean, there`s always this us-versus-them problem when it`s happening in another country. We don`t understand their laws. We think they want to cover up, especially a place that makes all its money from tourism and they don`t want any scandals, so there`s a real incentive to sweep everything under the rug.

I think, in a ritzy resort like this, if it`s really true that the key suspects now are the two security guards and the two other employees, because they`re gone -- they`ve been gone since the murder -- I don`t know that we`ll ever hear the truth, because not only is that scandalous and people won`t go there anymore because they hire killers, that`s a huge civil lawsuit. They`re going to pay through the nose, so there`s really strong incentive not to tell the truth

GRACE: She`s right, Jim Profido. We don`t know how much, if anything, has been covered up. But I can tell you this resort is facing a whopper of a civil lawsuit.

PROFIDO: Absolutely. But first and foremost is they need to find the killers, and that`s what everybody`s interest is here, whether it be the Mexican authorities, whether it be the Royal Mounted Police in Canada, I think everybody`s interest is to find the killers and bring them to justice.

GRACE: Well, I think you`re right about that. What`s concerning me now is not only justice in this case, but the protection of Americans that travel routinely to Cancun. That is on my heart and mind tonight, Jim. Jim, thank you.

But I want to thank all of my guests tonight. Our biggest thank you, as always, is to you, for being with us, inviting all of us this Monday night and every night into your home.

I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, Tuesday night, good night, friend.

END

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