Skip to main content


Return to Transcripts main page


Woman Describes Sexual Hell in Iraqi Prisons Under Saddam Hussein; Radical Face Transplant Provokes Controversy

Aired December 6, 2005 - 20:00   ET


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everyone. Glad to have you with us.
Tonight, you're about to see the astonishing result of ground- breaking surgery that has been making headlines around the world.


ZAHN (voice-over): Facing controversy -- for the first time in history, a woman looks into the mirror and sees someone else.

DR. BERNARD DEVAUCHELLE, SURGEON (through translator): Twenty- four hours after the operation, she saw herself in the mirror.

ZAHN: The radical face transplant that's provoking all sorts of questions -- tonight, some answers from the doctor who did it.

The Saddam trial -- he tells the court to go to hell. One woman describes the sexual hell inside one of his prisons.

Surviving a lobotomy.

HOWARD DULLY, LOBOTOMY PATIENT: I want to understand why this was done to me.

ZAHN: You have heard of lobotomy, but do you really know what it is? Tonight, meet a man who survived one.

And party, party -- the sky's the limit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the most beautiful, exquisite, nicest party I have been to.

ZAHN: Teenage parties like you have never seen before, each more extravagant than the next.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very demanding, very frustrating, impossible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm her daughter. I'm supposed to be.

ZAHN: Why would parents spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to please one child? And where will it ever end?

(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: When news of the first partial face transplant broke, it was a huge story all over the world. People everywhere were intrigued and, frankly, amazed at what science can accomplish.

These are the pictures we have seen what the woman looks like now. She received a new chin, lips and nose. But, as the days go by, some of the amazement at her operation is turning to outrage. Critics accuse her doctors of essentially rushing a human guinea pig into a life-threatening operation without trying safer alternatives.

But, as Paula Hancocks reports, her doctors aren't sitting still for that.


PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's back to the day job for one of the doctors who made medical history just over a week ago. He helped perform the world's first partial face transplant.

Today, Professor Bernard Devauchelle is working on more conventional and less controversial reconstructive surgery, rebuilding the jaw of a French-American doctor who was recently treated for cancer of the mouth. This is also the same operation room where Isabelle Dinoire underwent 15 hours of surgery, where a team of 50 doctors and nurses worked to give this woman a new life and secure that world first.

Devauchelle is delighted with the speed of Dinoire's recovery immediately after the transplant.

DR. BERNARD DEVAUCHELLE, SURGEON (through translator): Imagine that, on Monday morning, she sent a text message to her daughters. So, 12 hours after the operation, she was able to text her daughters. In the afternoon -- that's 24 hours after the operation -- she saw herself in the mirror.

HANCOCKS: Dr. Sylvie Testelin was with Dinoire when she saw herself for the very first time. She said they both cried when Dinoire realized she had both her face and her ability to speak back.

DR. SYLVIE TESTELIN, TRANSPLANT DOCTOR: With her voice and her face -- no, it's something very strange for -- for her.

HANCOCKS: Was it an emotional time?


TESTELIN: Oh, yes, yes, very, very, very.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): But closely following emotion and some praise came heavy criticism, a question of ethics. Should such complicated surgery, with a high risk of failure, be allowed for a non-life-saving operation?

PROFESSOR OLIVIER JARDE, HEAD OF ETHICS, AMENS HOSPITAL (through translator): You can, of course, live without a face, but is it a real life? I think this so-called quality of life is in fact closer to death. The question is, do we have a right to refuse this sort of treatment?

HANCOCKS: Jarde, who acted as the middleman for the donor's family and Dinoire, confirmed long-circling rumors the donor had committed suicide and that Dinoire, the recipient, had attempted suicide last May, and it was during Dinoire's suicide attempt that she was disfigured. She had taken sedatives and became disorientated, cutting her face as she fell. Her dog then attacked her, while she was unconscious.

Before the transplant, much of her nose, lips and chin were missing.

(on camera): Do you think Isabelle was in the right frame of mind to understand exactly what was going to happen to her?

JARDE (through translator): I think that this partial face transplant gives hope, a lot of hope, to her life. It's almost a new life for her.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Going about his daily rounds, Devauchelle notes the patient still isn't in the clear. Dinoire's body could reject the donor tissue years from now, and they could be back to square one. But for the doctors and for Dinoire, it is a risk worth taking.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Amion (ph), France.


ZAHN: We're going to hear from two people who have very clear ideas about the ethics and benefits of high-risk reconstructive surgery.

In 1999, Matthew Scott became the first person ever in the U.S. to receive a complete hand transplant.

Thank you for joining us.

But, first, I want to speak with Dr. Arthur Caplan. He happens to be the director of the University of Pennsylvania Center for Bioethics.

Always good to see you, Doctor.




So, based on what we have just heard in Paula Hancocks' report, do you think it was ethical to have done this partial face transplant on this particular patient?

CAPLAN: I don't.

And the reason I say that is not because I'm against face transplants. I think partial and full transplants are needed. They are important. They have to be pursued. There are a lot of people with oral cancer and injuries that need them.

But -- and this is a big but -- the way this procedure was done, it looks like they were racing to get it done first in France. They didn't pay a lot of attention to issues around the donor, whether there was a suicide as the cause of death and what that family was thinking when they came and asked, would you donate the face? They don't seemed to have screened carefully for the recipient.

And they have applied to the French authorities for permission to do the study and were told, you don't have enough animal data yet to say that this is going to work. So, I think they raced too quickly to be the first to try this.

ZAHN: So, you would support this idea if you felt a patient had gone through the proper screening process?

CAPLAN: Exactly.

And, you know, Paula, you have got a situation here where we don't want to frighten people into thinking that, hey, if I sign a donor card, are they going to come and use my face? In -- in France, they got the permission of the family. They don't have any permission from the actual donor.

I would argue, again, just for public policy purposes, we have to make it very clear to everybody, no one's going to be used as a donor in these situations unless you explicitly consent in writing that this is something you want to do. Just because you're a kidney, a liver donor, doesn't mean you have to worry about this.

Turn it around the other way. We have to make sure that the science is there to do this. Having this woman get the transplant, not knowing how to control the rejection, not knowing if the surgery really works, based on the little bit of animal work that's been done, if she rejects this face, it is going to be a disaster. She could die.

So, in closing tonight, what kind of ethical guidelines would you put in place? Are you going to have to have partial face transplant police out there?


CAPLAN: Well, I think you can have some pretty simple guidelines.

One, have an advocate for the person who's going to be the first subject who isn't connected to the transplant program, somebody who doesn't care whether you go first or last or in the middle. Just let them act solely as a helper to the potential recipient, explain all the risks, explain all the benefits, without having a conflict of interests.

Second, before you do this, announce to your public, we're going to try this, but don't worry; the only people who will be used as face donors are people who explicitly consent to that.

ZAHN: Yes.

CAPLAN: So, do some public education. Use the media. Use those outlets.

ZAHN: Important.

CAPLAN: And third, and last, I think you can get a committee to take a look at the science and say, you're ready; you're not ready. Just saying, we are going to try it because we know that perhaps we can do it, that's not the way to advance a new drug, a new device, or a new surgical procedure.

ZAHN: Dr. Arthur Caplan, thank you for shedding some light on this for us tonight. Appreciate it.

Now we want to turn your attention to this country's first hand transplant recipient. Matthew Scott lost his own hand in a 1985 firecracker accident. Next month will be the seventh anniversary of the operation that gave him a new one.

Thank you so much for dropping by.


ZAHN: Can the average person, as I'm looking here, tell the difference between what you were born with and what you got surgically?

SCOTT: By and large, most people cannot. It's not until they see perhaps some of the scars on my forearm from where the graft was attached that they recognize there was some surgery to my left arm.

ZAHN: As I'm sitting here, one feet away -- one foot away from you, I can't tell the difference. Where is the dead giveaway, then, up above your watch?

SCOTT: Yes. It would be above my watch. And, like I said, in the summertime, perhaps if I'm wearing short sleeves or something, there is the scars right there where it was attached.

ZAHN: If you hold your hand up like that, I think -- yes, absolutely.

SCOTT: Then we can see.

ZAHN: Now, as you hear this debate raging on about the issue of rejection and all of the complications that could happen.... SCOTT: Yes.

ZAHN: ... how aware of all of that were you when you consented to do this and when the doctors said, OK, you're a good candidate?

SCOTT: Oh, I -- I was fully informed of all the pitfalls and all the dangers of rejections and of the immunosuppression, which truly this is the major controversy, I suppose, surrounding these types of transplants.

ZAHN: That could have killed you.

SCOTT: Certainly.


ZAHN: And that was a risk that you were willing to face?

SCOTT: It was a risk I was willing to face.

But, as Dr. Caplan said, I did have an advocate. I did have somebody who argued with me, for me to prove the point why I needed to do this, and why it was important for me to do this, and why it was important that I believe that we advance the science to be able to do this.

ZAHN: How has this changed your life?

SCOTT: Oh, it's been fantastic.

Almost 20 years ago, I lost my left hand to an injury that was of my own doing. And 13 years later, I had the opportunity to get it back. And, ever since then, it has just been -- one day after the other, it's been a fantastic experience.

ZAHN: What can you do with this new hand?

SCOTT: Things that I wasn't able to do before.

I was a paramedic in the field with one hand, but -- and I was able to master big things. But little things I couldn't do. I couldn't turn doorknobs. I couldn't tie my shoes. I couldn't get dressed and hold my trousers up and buckle a belt. I couldn't stop at a toll booth and hand money to the toll taker and get it back. It would be reaching across my body. It was daily frustrations such as that, that made life get more and more difficult for me.

And when the opportunity for a -- a hand transplant came along, I -- I was sold, almost from the beginning.

ZAHN: Do you know who the donor was?

SCOTT: I do.

ZAHN: And how important was that to understand that sacrifice and what that meant to his family? SCOTT: Amazingly important, yes.

Understanding, as Dr. Caplan again said, that, you know, to make a donation such as this is a huge undertaking by the donor and by the family. This is not run of the mill, to use that term, organ donation. This is something that is controversial. It is something that is external, that everybody can see.

So, for a donor family to make that decision for somebody such as me or the woman in Lyon, France, I think is fantastic.

ZAHN: Well, it's great to see your sense of gratitude. Great to see you.

SCOTT: Thank you very much.

ZAHN: Can't tell the difference between the two...

SCOTT: Terrific.

ZAHN: ... in the performance. You can't either.


ZAHN: Well, when we come back, the latest shouting match at the Saddam Hussein trial. Get a load of this. You won't believe what he's unhappy about this time. Nic Robertson will fill us in.

And, a little bit later on, a controversial medical procedure you have heard about. The word for is part of our everyday language. But what is it really like to have a lobotomy?

Plus, how much money would you spend on a party for kids? A few hundred dollars? Two dollars? A few thousand? Stay with us and you can see what you could buy for a few hundred thousand dollars. Yes, that's right.


ZAHN: There's yet another claim tonight of an American being taken hostage in Iraq. Al-Jazeera television broadcast a video from a group calling itself the Islamic Army which threatens to kill the captive unless the U.S. immediately free members of the group who are now in jail.

The tape actually shows a man sitting with his hands, apparently bound. A passport and other identification cards are also shown. CNN is not reporting the alleged hostage's identity until we can independently confirm the kidnapping.

Also today, a plea for the release of four other hostages in Iraq. The four are members of a group called the Christian Peacemaker Team. Today, it pleaded with the hostage takers to heed calls from around the Muslim world to free the men unharmed. The militants have allegedly threatened to kill the four if all Iraq prisoners are not released by Thursday. For his part, President Bush today said again that the U.S. doesn't give in to terrorist demands, but promised the U.S. is trying to find the captives.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We, of course, don't pay ransom for any hostages. What we will do, of course, is use our intelligence gathering to see if we can't help locate them.


ZAHN: In Baghdad today, another bloody one -- two suicide bombers attacked a police academy, killing 36 people, wounding 72 others. Another 11 people died in other attacks around Iraq.

And, in a Baghdad courtroom, there were more outbursts and defiance from Saddam Hussein today, but there was also harrowing testimony about the former dictator's cruelty. The charges against him involve the killing of more than 140 people in a Shiite Iraqi town in retaliation for an assassination attempt against Saddam Hussein.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is covering that trial.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Hidden from view and her voice disguised, the first female witness to testify against Saddam Hussein fought back tears, as she recalled her suffering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He said, take off your clothes. He hit me with a pistol and forced me. I was forced to take my clothes. And he lifted my legs upward and he hit me with the cables.

ROBERTSON: She told the court how her family had been taken from their home in Dujail to the local Baath Party headquarters, driven to an interrogation center in Baghdad, and then to Abu Ghraib prison, where men were beaten as they were forced to run naked in front of women and children.

The judge frequently admonished her to stick to recounting only her own experience. Captivity was so bad, she said, they had stitched underwear and socks from blankets and had improvised shoes from newspapers. She says she was held for four years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): You see me now. I didn't go to school from 16 to 20 years. I didn't enjoy my life at that age. My youth, my middle age was destroyed.

ROBERTSON: On this, the second day of witness testimony, the judge seemed to allow the defendants many more opportunities to speak out and cross-examine witnesses.

At one point, Saddam Hussein's half-brother, Barzan Hassan al- Tikriti, even seemed to implicate himself.

"Did you see me in Dujail, when the families were being rounded up?" he asked. "Yes," said the witness.

Tikriti quickly countered. "Didn't I go to the 60 men in Dujail, give them kisses, shake their hands and send them home free?" Tikriti didn't give the witness a chance to answer that question.

The judge also gave Saddam Hussein plenty of time to talk.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): Americans and Zionists want to execute Saddam Hussein. So what? Saddam Hussein gave himself to the people when he was a high school student. I was sentenced to execution three times. This is not the first time.

ROBERTSON: In the courtroom, a growing sense that, behind the bluster, the former president was beginning to lose his way.

(on camera): As the judge was about to adjourn the court until Wednesday, Saddam Hussein jumped up, saying: "I have been in the same shirt and underwear for the last three days. I don't want the trial to go ahead," to which the judge replied: "There are only two more witnesses left in this phase. The court will proceed Wednesday," to which Saddam Hussein said: "I refuse to appear in a court where there's no justice. Go to hell, all you agents of America."

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.


ZAHN: Coming up, a life-or-death situation in Massachusetts that is reminiscent of the Terri Schiavo case.


EDWARD MCDONOUGH, ATTORNEY FOR JASON STRICKLAND: There's no question that withdrawing a feeding tube and withdrawing water, you are going to have a -- a -- an -- an awful death by starvation.


ZAHN: But, if that happens this time, the result could end up in murder charges. We will explain why next.


ZAHN: Right now, there is a fierce legal battle going on in Massachusetts. And it highlights some of the same issues at the center of the Terri Schiavo right-to-life case.

But this case involves an 11-year-old girl on life support and a stepfather who could face a murder charge. Haleigh Poutre is in a permanent vegetative state, allegedly the result of a beating by her adoptive mother and her stepfather. The state wants to let her die, but her stepfather, the very man accused of beating her, is trying to block that action.

You will find out why from Brian Todd's report.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jason Strickland is fighting desperately to keep his stepdaughter alive and has taken her case to the Massachusetts Supreme Court.

EDWARD MCDONOUGH, ATTORNEY FOR JASON STRICKLAND: The question is whether or not and how an 11-year-old child will die. And there's no question that withdrawing a feeding tube and withdrawing water, you are going to have a -- a -- an -- an awful death by starvation.

TODD: Strickland's attorneys say he has no ulterior motive. But a source close to the case tells CNN, if Strickland's stepdaughter, 11-year-old Haleigh Poutre, is taken off life support, Strickland could be charged with her murder.

According to a police report relayed to CNN by officials at the district court in Westfield, Massachusetts, police believe Strickland and his wife, Haleigh Poutre's adopted stepmother, Holli Strickland, delivered the blows that put Haleigh in a vegetative state. Police say Haleigh was the victim of an ongoing pattern of abuse and that when she was admitted to a western Massachusetts hospital back in September, her injuries included cuts, burns, shearing of her brain stem, and a subdural hematoma, a clot in the brain caused by a severe blow to the head.

Massachusetts Department of Social Services now has custody of Haleigh and wants to take her off life support. A juvenile court agreed. But Jason Strickland's attorneys are now fighting that ruling.

MCDONOUGH: Mr. Strickland, as the stepfather, has information about the child's upbringing, her religious faith, the fact that she received the religious sacraments. And none of that was included in the hearing.

TODD: Meanwhile, police have booked Jason Strickland on five counts of assault and battery. He has yet to be formally charged and has maintained his innocence. The stepmother, Holli Strickland, was found dead, along with her grandmother, some days after Haleigh Poutre was admitted to the hospital. CNN is told the deaths are being investigated as a possible murder suicide.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


ZAHN: And that is one more thing you should know about what you heard at the tail end of the report, that an investigation is ongoing whether in fact that was a double suicide.

Coming up next, some T-shirts that apparently could be a lot more dangerous than they seem. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's nationwide now. And it got under certain people's skin, certain people meaning judges, authority figures, who can't solve cases.


ZAHN: So, do you know why these shirts say, stop snitching? I guarantee you, they aren't talking about potato chips.

And a little bit later on, a story you are not going to see anywhere else. You're going to meet a man who actually had a lobotomy and survived it. Why was it done in the first place?


ZAHN: Could it be that two words on a T-shirt helped killers get off the hook? Boston's mayor seems to think so, and right now he's trying to gets those shirts off his city's streets. The offending words? "Stop Snitching."

And in response to the mayor, some stores are actually pulling the shirts from their shelves. But don't you have the right to wear a shirt with any message you want? Chris Huntington has been looking into that controversy.


CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The current king of gangster rap, 50 Cent, hammers home one of the most defiant themes in hip-hop culture. On the street, snitching or squealing to the cops is dangerous, maybe even deadly.

No one knows more about the problems that message creates than Boston- based rapper turned fashion design Antonio Ennis, who's capitalized on "stop snitching" for years.

M. ANTONIO ENNIS, ANTONIO ANSALDI CLOTHING: It's nationwide now. And it got under certain people's skin, and certain people meaning judges, authority figure whose can't solve cases.

HUNTINGTON: Ennis created the "stop snitching" T-shirt back in 1999. But when rapper Jim Jones featured the shirts in a video a year ago, "stop snitching" went suburban mainstream.

ENNIS: Stores started calling, wholesale orders started shooting up, and skyrocketing through the roof.

HUNTINGTON: Ennis says he sold at least 20,000 of the shirts at about 20 bucks a pop, many of them online through a partnership with these guys from

ENNIS: I feel as long as we sell T-shirts, the police will solve crime, you know what I mean?

HUNTINGTON: Ennis insists the shirt wasn't created to cause trouble.

ENNIS: It was really designed as a novelty. It wasn't designed for people to go into court and stand in front of a judge and intimidate people.

HUNTINGTON: But that's exactly what happened in Boston. The trial of two reputed gang members accused of killing a 10-year-old girl in a drive by shooting was disrupted when a defendant's family member wore a "stop snitching" T-shirt into court.

Boston Mayor Tom Menino, who is now dealing with his city's highest murder rate in ten years, says he has no tolerance for anything that gets in the way of cracking down on crime, even people wearing T-shirts.

HON. THOMAS MENINO, BOSTON MAYOR: To sit in the front row and wear a shirt and look at the witness, that's intimidation. That's intimidation of a witness. And we cannot stand that. I understand the free speech and all that stuff. But as mayor, my responsibility is use every tool I have in my toolbox to get those bad guys convicted and send them away.

HUNTINGTON: Menino's His challenge is not unique. Authorities nationwide are confronting the "stop snitching" message. Earlier this year in Maryland, it showed up in this controversial underground video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For all of you rats that's snitching.

HUNTINGTON: Patricia Jessamy is a veteran prosecutor in Baltimore.

HON. PATRICIA JESSAMY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: We lose 25 percent of our non-fatal shootings because witnesses either go underground, they cannot be found, or when they come to court, if we can find them, they recant their testimony.

HUNTINGTON: Back in Boston with a showdown looming, Antonio Ennis had to decide whether city hall over his right to sell T-shirts was worth it. In the end, as a businessman, a father, and a community leader, he decided it was not and he has stopped selling the shirts.

(on camera): There is one unintended consequence to the crackdown on the "stop snitching" T-shirts, and that is a spike in demand. Stores here in Boston report a run on their remaining supply. And those on both sides of the controversy concede that making the shirts harder to find could just turn them into this season's must have hip-hop fashion statement.

(voice-over): The guys from are fine with that. But the man who started it all is moving on.

ENNIS: There's a lot of positive things that I'm doing that I'm trying to get out there other than the "stop snitching" shirt. The "stop snitching" shirt to me is a fad and comes and goes and it's done with my line now. HUNTINGTON: Chris Huntington, CNN, Boston.


ZAHN: And Boston's mayor has gone on to say he's looking for other inflammatory Web sites built around the words "stop snitching" and he will try to get them shut down as well.

We're going to have a much different story when we come back, but it's one that some of you parents might consider a warning. When it comes to parties for your teenagers these days, cake alone just doesn't seem to cut it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the most beautiful, exquisite, nicest party I've been to.


ZAHN: Yes, they had a good time but can you believe the price? Think big and then think bigger. Six figures? Maybe? See you when we come back.


ZAHN: So while most parents will do just about anything for their kids, you might think about some of the parties parents are willing to throw for their teenagers these days. You might think they go way beyond reason. Maybe you should send your children out of the room for this next story, or they could get some very big and very expensive ideas. Here's Jason Carroll.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a whole new venue for old school rockers like Aerosmith, and A-list R&B talent like Ashanti. And it's all been created by parents willing to spend whatever it takes to make their child's party untoppable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a great kid and be nice to mommy tonight if things aren't perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. One more please.

CARROLL: Why shouldn't she be nice? Amber Ritinger's (ph) parents flew Ashanti and rapper Ja Rule to perform at their 13-year- old daughter's half a million dollar party.

JA RULE, RAPPER: I'm really only here, like, to scare away all the little boys.

CARROLL: MTV helped set the trend. Building a reality series, "My Super Sweet 16," showcasing extravagant teen parties. And then Bravo got into the act with its own reality series, "Party/Party." ANDREW COHEN, BRAVO POP CULTURE PUNDIT: I think kids are taking a cue from the culture around them, and they're seeing a lot of Hollywood and excess and celebrity on TV, and they want to be a part of it.

CARROLL: "Party/Party" profiles 16 families planning, you guessed it, parties. One episode features the Schwartz's.

CAROL-ANN SCHWARTZ, ANNABEL'S MOTHER: You know, in the long run, I think both of us would agree that it's been an amazing bond experience for us. It's been, actually fantastic.

C. SCHWARTZ: You need to do an envelope for him.

CARROLL: That's the long run. But in the short term, planning Annabel's coming of age celebration, her bat mitzvah, hasn't been easy even for Carol-Ann Schwartz, who happens to be a professional party planner.

C. SCHWARTZ: I'm just busy in a meeting.

CARROLL: She says her daughter has been her toughest client.

C. SCHWARTZ: Very demanding, very frustrating. Impossible.

ANNABEL SCHWARTZ, HAVING EXPENSIVE BAT MITZVAH: I'm her daughter. I'm supposed to be.

CARROLL: Annabel's plan? Transform Manhattan's swanky Hammerstein Ballroom into a nightclub.

A. SCHWARTZ: It's been quite hard because she is my mother. She's not my employee. So it's not like I can just say, go do this or that. I have to give a little bit of respect. Just a little.

CARROLL: Respect comes at a high price. The cost for Annabel's bash? 200,000.

C. SCHWARTZ: It's a god-awful amount of money to spend. It is a lifetime of memories, I hope.

CARROLL: Annabel's 17-year-old sister doesn't understand the need for it all.

KATHERINE-ANNE SCHWARTZ, ANNABEL'S SISTER: I've never been really, a part of like this huge deal kind of thing.

CARROLL: That includes the drama over wardrobe.

C. SCHWARTZ: This is mom's dress.

K. SCHWARTZ: You're kidding.

C. SCHWARTZ: What do you mean, I'm kidding?

K. SCHWARTZ: You're not wearing that shirt. C. SCHWARTZ: I certainly am.

K. SCHWARTZ: No, you're not.


K. SCHWARTZ: You're not.

C. SCHWARTZ: Why not?


C. SCHWARTZ: I think my outfit's terribly appropriate.

K. SCHWARTZ: There you go. Terribly appropriate.

CARROLL: Much less drama surrounding Annabel's dress.

A. SCHWARTZ: This is the party dress. I have another dress. But it's not here, it's with my stylist.

CARROLL: Stylist at 12? That's just the beginning. Two hundred grand also gets you a hip-hop dance ensemble, a singing drag queen. Neon rollerbladers, a black light club section for Annabel and a ton of hugs and kisses from grateful kids and adults, lucky enough to be invited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the most beautiful, exquisite, nicest party I've been to.

A. SCHWARTZ: Everyone told me it was an amazing party. I was so happy. Everybody came over and said, I had such a great time at your party.

CARROLL: The party turns out to be a hit, but some psychologists say the real cost might be measured in more than money.

KENNETH CONDRELL, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it's wonderful to celebrate. But when you go to such extravagant means, it's a false value about what life is all about.

CARROLL: Was it all worth it?

C. SCHWARTZ: Yes. It was totally worth it. I'd do it again next week.

CARROLL: Maybe not next week, but Annabel's sweet 16 is just four years away.

A. SCHWARTZ: I don't think it will be as good as my bat mitzvah, nothing will, except for my wedding, which you're going to have a lot of fun doing.

CARROLL: Thirteen, going on 200,000. Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.


ZAHN: Absolutely mind-boggling. You can look for the premiere episode of "Party/Party" tonight on Bravo at 9:00 Eastern and 9:00 Pacific.

Now to put this all into perspective, the average price tag for a wedding these days runs to about $20,000. So a lot of people are spending big bucks on big parties and Jamie Krauss runs her own publicity firm and used to direct P.R. for big clubs that host parties like the ones we have just seen.

So you have seen it all. This didn't even look extravagant to you. What are some of the more outlandish costs that you've seen along the way?

JAMIE KRAUSS, PUBLICIST: Right. Well, Paula, let me tell you. Lavish parties are nothing new. Bar and bat mitzvahs have always been a big deal. And we've seen high-priced parties for a very long time. In the past five or 10 years, though, they've gotten a lot flashier. And we've seen some really crazy things.

ZAHN: Like?

KRAUSS: A couple of years ago, we saw one New York night spot completely taken over. The upstairs was turned into the inside of a 747 jet, complete with seats and stewardesses. The downstairs was made into Las Vegas and each table was thematic. One was the Bellagio, the MGM Grand, and the parents even brought in a special person to manufacture clothing specific to each table, so the servers looked like the staff from each hotel.

ZAHN: Well, like I'm sure the average 13-year-old wouldn't know the difference between whether they were at the Bellagio or down the street.

KRAUSS: Exactly.

ZAHN: The clothing obviously is a huge expense. And you have seen parents run $20,000 tabs for a dress?

KRAUSS: It's unbelievable. We just saw Amber's dress was almost $30,000, and she was also wearing a diamond tiara. And we can only imagine how much that cost.

We've seen -- clothing has been the big trend. It's not atypical for a girl to change her outfit five or six times. It's like an awards show. And they have designer gowns. A lot of the times, we're going to see it soon, designers coming in and getting gowns for young girls, like they do for celebrities on the red carpet. It's becoming that kind of a thing.

ZAHN: And its for these sweet 16 parties as well?

KRAUSS: Right, and the kids are 13-years-old, 16-years-old. It's really blown out of proportion. ZAHN: I guess what is just so stunning is you watch. It seems like, obviously, parents are indulging these kids. Is it more for the kids or for the parents?

KRAUSS: Well you know, the kids and the parents both fuel it. You have to understand, we live in a celebrity culture now. Young girls in particular, they watch the socialites and heiresses, and they want to be a part of that so bad.

And this is a way that for one night, they can bring the celebrity culture to them. In fact, these parties are becoming so much like Hollywood parties now, they have red carpets, paparazzi, which are all hired, of course. And gift bags that are upwards of $1,000. We've heard of gift bags with digital cameras, video iPods, so its really becoming like a Hollywood party, and it's a way for them to import Hollywood to their hometown.

ZAHN: I read a story over the weekend that one of these cost a million dollars?

KRAUSS: Oh yeah, upwards of that. We actually heard of one in New York, about a week ago, that was a $10 million party.

ZAHN: Ten million dollars? What did you get for $10 million?

KRAUSS: Well, you got a great party and a night to remember. You got a lot of celebrities and some big parting gifts.

ZAHN: Very different from the expenses incurred at my senior prom party. I think the dress cost, maybe $65.

KRAUSS: Yes, times they are a-changing.

ZAHN: The certainly are, for some folks. Jamie Krauss, thank you so much.

KRAUSS: Thank you.

ZAHN: Now its time to see if investors had reason to party today. Because they would need to, to pay for those parties. Sophia Choi with Headline News "Biz Break."


ZAHN: Somehow I don't think Elton will be coming our way this holiday season. Sophia Choi, thanks so much. Please stay with us for this next story. You're going to actually hear from someone who survived a medical procedure that is now considered so barbaric, it's banned.


HOWARD DULLY, LOBOTOMY PATIENT: Life has been very traumatic because of the lobotomy. It's not what you see physically. I dress like a normal person and look normal, it's how you live.


ZAHN: Coming up next, the reality of a lobotomy and why they are never done anymore.


ZAHN: I want to warn you that our next story has some very disturbing images. You're about to meet a man who had a lobotomy 40 years ago. now, you may think of lobotomy as a barbaric treatment for mental illness that the medical community shunned long ago, but over decades, tens of thousands of people had the surgery to cut pathways in part of their brains, and it was hoped to cure disorders like schizophrenia. So what is it like to live your life after a lobotomy? Here's senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was a 12-year-old boy who says he didn't get along with his stepmother. She didn't like his sullen moods, he says. Didn't like the fact he was reluctant to bathe. So she took him to a special doctor.

HOWARD DULLY, LOBOTOMY PATIENT: I was 12 years old. It was in 1961, and I remember going to the hospital and being told that I was going to the hospital for tests.

GUPTA: But Howard Dully was not going to the hospital for tests. He was going for an operation.

H. DULLY: My file has everything. A photo of me with the ice picks in my eyes. I want to understand why this was done to me.

GUPTA: What was done to Howard Dully was a lobotomy.

His search for answers has been made into an NPR documentary called "My Lobotomy." Howard Dully's surgeon was the man who introduced lobotomies to America as a way to treat mental illness -- Dr. Walter J. Freeman.

Dr. Freeman was so proud of his work, so convinced of the benefits of lobotomies, he distributed instructional films, which he narrated in 1949.

WALTER J. FREEMAN: This patient came to the hospital this morning after breakfast, and if all goes well, she'll leave tomorrow afternoon.

GUPTA: A year later, another Freeman film presented a young catatonic before lobotomy.

FREEMAN: This is a boy of 19, a dreamy, sensitive individual, interested particularly in the current musical idiom of be-bop. Transorbital lobotomy was performed on August 1st by Dr. Jonathan M. Williams. Within a few days, the patient resumed playing the saxophone. Hallucinations subsided. GUPTA: Considered barbaric by today's standards, the history of lobotomies is not black and white.

Jack El-Hai is the author of "The Lobotomist," a biography of Dr. Freeman.

JACK EL-HAI, AUTHOR, "THE LOBOTOMIST": In the mid-1930s, when Freeman began performing lobotomies were a time of great desperation in the treatment of psychiatric illnesses.

GUPTA: At that time, mental institutions, or insane asylums as they were called back then, were overrun, their conditions often deplorable. The medicines we now use to help treat psychiatric illnesses had not yet been invented.

The lobotomy because the most legitimate form of treatment.

EL-HAI: It was not considered a cure, but it was considered a way to blunt or lessen the symptoms enough so that people could get out and return to their families. And they did, in many cases, return to their families.

GUPTA: The idea behind a lobotomy is that symptoms of mental illness, such as depression, schizophrenia and suicidal tendencies are caused by the connections between the frontal lobes and another part of the brain, the thalamus. Cut the connection, solve the problem.

Over the years, about 40,000 to 50,000 people received lobotomies. According to some estimates, about a third were considered successful.

Ann Krubsack endured schizophrenia for eight years, until she had a lobotomy in 1961.

ANN KRUBSACK, LOBOTOMY PATIENT: And I think I did very well. And I'm not sure if I hadn't had the lobotomy that I would have done that well.

GUPTA: But the vast majority of patients did not do well. Some died. Many were left paralyzed. And in the successful cases, where someone was well enough to leave the hospital after their lobotomy, many were not the same person as when they came in.

One of the most famous of Dr. Freeman's patients was Rosemary Kennedy, sister to Jack and Bobby. Born mildly retarded, she functioned independently until age 23, when Dr. Freeman performed the procedure in 1941.

It was a failure. After her lobotomy, Rosemary Kennedy was admitted to a mental institution in Wisconsin, where she remained for 50 years until her death this year at the age of 86.

(on camera): Rosemary Kennedy received a prefrontal lobotomy. But another procedure championed by Freeman was the transorbital, or ice pick lobotomy. It was performed by Dr. Freeman himself or doctors he trained. They used only this device. It's called a leucotome, and the entire procedure took less than 10 minutes.

(voice-over): Instead of boring through the skull, the doctors could get to the brain through the thin bony plate at the upper part of the eye socket, to sever the neural pathways.

This was the kind of procedure 12-year-old Howard Dully received. But why did Dr. Freeman choose to operate on Howard Dully? According to the records, Dr. Freeman diagnosed the boy a schizophrenic, a diagnosis that according to Howard's doctors would not have held today.

After years of silence, and his stepmother's death, Howard turned to his father, Rodney Dully, for answers in the NPR documentary.

H. DULLY: So how did you find Dr. Freeman?

RODNEY DULLY, FATHER: I didn't. She did. She took you. I don't -- I think she tried some other doctors that said, uh-uh, there's nothing wrong here. He's a normal boy. It was the stepmother problem.

H. DULLY: My question would be naturally, why would you let it happen to me, if that was the case?

R. DULLY: I got manipulated, pure and simple. I was sold a bill of goods. She sold me, and Freeman sold me. And I didn't like it.

GUPTA: After the lobotomy, Dully became a ward of the state, moving from juvenile detention to mental hospital to a home for troubled children, then halfway houses. At one point even living out of a car.

As for Dr. Freeman, he continued to perform lobotomies until 1967, when his final lobotomy patient died from a brain hemorrhage. He was banned from ever operating again.

H. DULLY: Considering that my life has been very traumatic because of the lobotomy, it's not what you see as physically, that I dress like a normal person and look normal. It's how you live.

GUPTA: Howard began to turn his life around in the 1990s, and quit drinking. He's now happily married, has a son, and enjoys his job driving a tour bus.

Through this documentary, Howard has found some answers about what exactly happened to him. But the most profound will always elude him.

H. DULLY: I think that I am intelligent enough now, I probably would have been as intelligent enough then to say that I came out as I would have been. I don't know. I don't know how you can go into a brain and scramble it and have me come out like I would have been. That doesn't make sense.

But what specifically have I lost that I'm not capable of doing mentally, I can't answer that.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.


ZAHN: It's interesting to note that the Portuguese doctor who originally developed the procedure was actually awarded the Nobel Peace Prize -- that is Nobel Prize in medicine -- back in 1949.

That wraps it up for all of us here. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. Tomorrow, a story you need to see if you're doing any holiday shopping. Someone brushing past you may be picking your pocket. We have some advice on how to keep from becoming a pickpocket's next victim.

Please join us tomorrow night. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.


© 2007 Cable News Network.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines