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CNN LIVE AT DAYBREAK

Bush Administration Counters Critics of Pre-War Intelligence; Torture Accusations in Iraq

Aired November 17, 2005 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is Thursday, November 17.
The war over the war of words on Iraq intensifies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory or their backbone. But we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: The vice president and the president go on an all out offensive, saying they want to set the record straight on this decision to go to war with Iraq.

Also, did oil executives really come clean with the public when they testified on Capitol Hill last week?

And good Thursday morning, everyone.

I'm Kelly Wallace in today for Carol Costello.

Thanks so much for starting your day with us. We appreciate it.

We'll have much more on the latest verbal battle over the Iraq war in just a moment.

Also ahead, how confident are you that your job will be around six months from now? How about in a year? If you have a case of the nerves, you are not alone.

And for a quarter century, exhausted new parents have let their babies cry themselves to sleep. But now a prominent doctor who originally offered that advice has changed his opinion. We'll tell you why and what he's saying now.

But first, these stories now in the news.

President Bush and the president of South Korea put communist North Korea on notice that it will not be allowed to keep its nuclear weapons program. Mr. Bush is in South Korea for the Asia-Pacific Economic Summit.

A new terror threat to tell you about. A man believed to be one of Asia's most wanted terrorists warns in a video that the United States, Britain and Australia will be the target of the next attack. That tape was seized during a police raid in Indonesia.

And the U.S. military is calling the fight for Ubaydi a tough one. It's the third city U.S. and Iraqi forces are struggling to reclaim from insurgents in Operation Steel Curtain. Five Marines were killed Wednesday, along with 16 suspected insurgents.

To Jacqui Jeras in the Forecast Center now, talking about very cold temperatures threat much of the country -- right, Jacqui?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, exactly, Kelly.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WALLACE: Up first this hour, the war of words over the war. Vice President Dick Cheney is leading the White House offensive. Last night he responded to critics who accuse the administration of deliberately misusing intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: The suggestion that's been made by some U.S. senators that the president of the United States or any member of this administration purposely misled the American people on pre-war intelligence is one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And you could say Dick Cheney's boss agrees. President Bush is on an eight day Asian trip. But the pre-war intelligence issue continues to dog him overseas.

We want to get more now on all of this from our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, in Busan, South Korea -- and, Suzanne, this is definitely carefully coordinated between what the vice president says and, of course, what the president is saying overseas.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kelly, you bring up a very good point, because the president is 7,000 miles away from home and yet he can't escape the criticism and the debate over the Iraq war intelligence. But, of course, the president, as well as the vice president and many of the senior staff, have been prepared for this war of words, this aggressive campaign for quite some time.

President Bush, at a time of political turmoil, was seen earlier today visiting South Korea's oldest Buddhist temple, a place of peace and tranquility, but simply can't get away from this issue.

He had a bilateral meeting with South Korea's president and during that press conference, he was asked about the controversy, asked about the criticism from the Democrats. And, of course, those harsh words that we heard from Cheney. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Democrats say that I deliberately misled the Congress and the people, that's irresponsible. They looked at the same intelligence I did and they voted, many of them voted to support the decision I made.

It's irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And, Kelly, also something else that was brought up is Republican Senator Chuck Hagel's comments. He said that it is not unpatriotic to question the government. Of course, President Bush saying that it was irresponsible, however, to do that without the proper facts. A lot of people within the administration talk about this strategy, saying that, look, if these kinds of claims go unanswered, this criticism, then essentially it turns into facts and that it leaves the president with no other choice but to respond.

At this time, of course, Kelly, you know the president trying to bolster his own credibility at home, as well as abroad. Tomorrow, that is when he will actively start to participate in this economic summit with the 21 leaders. He'll be talking about issues like global trade and, of course, confronting China, as well -- Kelly.

WALLACE: All right, Suzanne.

And we'll be following your reports very closely.

Suzanne Malveaux reporting from Busan, South Korea for us.

And turning now to Iraq. Iraq's acting minister of human rights says investigations are underway into allegations that more than 160 Iraqi prisoners were tortured at detention centers by fellow Iraqis.

Our Nic Robertson is following all the developments here.

He joins us live now from Baghdad -- and, Nic, what's the latest on this?

Obviously growing concern inside the country about this situation.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the interior minister is still speaking. He's at a press conference that's been going on for over an hour. At times, he's been sounding incredibly defensive. At times the numbers that he's been given for the number of detainees discovered in this detention facility have been at huge variance with those we have heard from the prime minister.

The Iraqi prime minister said 173 people in this detention facility. The deputy interior minister said 161. Today, the interior minister says only seven people were discovered at this detention facility. He said only five of those had been tortured. He did say that it was under his control. He did say that he gave permission for a U.S. general to go into the facility over the weekend because he believed that there was nothing untoward happening there.

He did say there would be a full investigation. What he was very, very strong about was refuting that this detention facility was in any way targeting the Sunni community here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAYAN JUST A BRIEF REVIEW, IRAQI INTERIOR MINISTER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): It is a big lie to talk about 170 people and these seven people have newly come to this place. And the prime minister has formed an investigation committee to investigate this incident. The committee is headed by Nouri Shaways.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, he also said that he didn't really want to hold this press conference. He said he was put under pressure from people inside the ministry to come out and talk about it. And what we learned, as well, was some details about this underground bunker system, a system that was used by Saddam Hussein at a location that was familiar, a detention facility familiar to many Iraqis. He described it as an underground location where people were being held, where there were 26 officers and a judge to judge the people who were being interrogated there, he said -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Nic, we appreciate it.

And we are now going to talk with the Iraqi acting human rights minister.

So, Nic Robertson, thank you for that.

On the phone with us now is Nermin Othman Hassan, again, Iraq's acting human rights minister.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Give us a little sense -- we were just listening, of course, to Nic Robertson telling us a little bit about what you are reporting.

What have you found concerning human rights abuses and allegations of torture of Iraqis against other Iraqis?

NERMIN OTHMAN HASSAN, IRAQI ACTING HUMAN RIGHTS MINISTER: Yes, hello?

Can you hear me now?

WALLACE: I can hear you.

Did you -- were you able to hear my question?

HASSAN: Yes.

WALLACE: Can you tell us what you have found? HASSAN: Yes, OK, we've -- yes, we got some information outside from the individual people that there is some like torture in the incident (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and for would be detainees (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we have a group (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that in the beginning they didn't allow to go to everywhere. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) could reach some people and we heard that there was torture inside. And we did the report, but -- a report to the council (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and with the coalition help that we could reach to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And we found and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some people have been tortured.

But it was not clear who -- we are, as a government, against such kind of policies and we are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) any country which is believing in human rights and believing in democracy. There was, therefore, now we have a very big committee, which is done by the prime minister and, you know, he is now -- the committee now working very well and going everywhere and try to find who is back of those torturing. And we will bring a commission in maybe two or three days (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to review (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who was back and who has done such kind of criminality in (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WALLACE: Madam Minister, I'm so sorry to say, I have to...

HASSAN: We (UNINTELLIGIBLE) he is against such crimes and we have a committee together.

WALLACE: OK, Madam Minister, we have other questions for you.

Unfortunately, our telephone connection is not so great, so our viewers in the United States are having some difficulty hearing you.

We appreciate, though, you taking some time.

Again, that was Iraq's acting human rights minister on the phone with us.

And if we can fix that connection and connect back with her, we will try to do that.

Well, moving ahead here on DAYBREAK, the State Department says that it is satisfied with the Iraqi government's response to the torture allegations and also the vow to investigate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN HADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think what's heartening is the response of the Iraqi government, where Prime Minister Jaafari came out very promptly and said this is not the policy of our government, this is not something we tolerate. He called for an investigation. That investigation will be conducted over the next two to three weeks.

We will, of course, support that investigation.

But I think the important thing is that the Iraqis have made clear this is not their policy. This will not be tolerated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And that was U.S. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. And Hadley is rejecting suggestions that Abu Ghraib, the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, made it more difficult for U.S. officials to criticize the Iraqis.

Well, an American defense contractor is in federal custody this morning. Philip Bloom is accused of paying bribes and kickbacks and engaging in bid rigging for contracts in Iraq. A court document says Bloom conspired to fraudulently obtain government contracts for reconstruction in Iraq.

Well, still to come here on a busy Thursday morning on DAYBREAK, could airline pilots become the Grinches who steal Christmas? Standoffs between Delta and UPS and their pilots threaten to ground travelers and their packages. All the details ahead in our "Business Buzz."

And if all this potential strike talk is giving you the job jitters, well, you are not alone. Plenty of Americans are worried about their job security. We'll tell you about that.

And later, a new chapter opens in a legendary newspaperman's career. We'll tell you about that, as well.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And welcome back to DAYBREAK.

Your news, money, weather and sports.

It's about 15 minutes after the hour and here is what is all new this morning.

A prayer service was held last night for Michael and Katherine Borden in Pennsylvania. Eighteen-year-old David Ludwig is accused of killing the couple and abducting their 14-year-old daughter.

In money, Ben Bernanke is one step closer to being the new Fed chairman. His nomination heads to the full Senate after members of the Banking Committee gave their approval. Bernanke is President Bush's choice to replace outgoing Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan.

In culture, Miss. America is going to Las Vegas. The legendary pageant moves from its home near Atlantic City after more than 80 years. The Vegas show will also be the first not seen on broadcast television. It'll be in January and can be seen on Country Music Television.

In sports, the Super Bowl may be headed to Kansas City. NFL owners approved letting the city host the big game some time in the next decade if big improvements are made to Arrowhead Stadium. Among the ordered upgrades, a retractable roof to keep out the cold. And cold, cold, cold is what we're talking about today -- right, Jacqui?

SCHNEIDER: Ooh, yes.

And Kansas City not alone in that cold there. As a matter of fact, pretty much the eastern two thirds of the country into the big chill at this time.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WALLACE: Still ahead on DAYBREAK, if you can get to your holiday destination, will you have gifts to bring? We'll give you the latest on a pair of potential pilot strikes that could make your cool Yule a blue -- couldn't -- let's change that. Could make you have a blue Christmas.

And speaking of the blues, more Americans might have them as job jitters grow in the workplace. We'll tell you about that.

But first, we want to say good morning to Cleveland. There you see it, a shot from WOIO-TV, Cleveland, Ohio. Good morning to you.

DAYBREAK just getting started here.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER UPDEGRAVE, SENIOR EDITOR, "MONEY": When you reach age 50, you want to make sure that you're taking advantage of the catch up provisions that were put into the law a couple of years ago for people 50 and older. So, for example, if you're contributing to a 401K, you probably are allowed to add another couple of thousand dollars in the form of a catch up contribution and, also, with an IRA or a Roth IRA, you're also allowed to put in these catch up contributions.

So essentially what this allows you to do is put a little more money away on a tax-deferred basis and increase the value of your retirement accounts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

WALLACE: Well, the commercial airlines aren't the only companies having some trouble with their pilots.

Carrie Lee joining us with more on some labor woes at UPS and FedEx -- and this is a bad time for this to be happening.

CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right in time for the holidays, potentially. And there are even some potential strikes that could happen. I'll get to that in a minute.

But first the story here, the pilots at UPS and FedEx, like those at commercial airlines, are asking management for new labor deals. Now the Independent Pilots Association, representing about 2,500 UPS pilots, says it will make a major announcement later today. The union is expected to ask to be released from federal mediation, which the two sides have been in for more than a year.

While they're in mediation, the pilots can't strike. If they're released from mediation, they still have to wait 30 days before they do. But that could mean, worst case scenario, a strike right before Christmas.

Also today, pilots are planning to picket outside UPS stores in Louisville, Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles and Orlando. They're asking for better pay, pensions, health benefits and job security.

Now, according to UPS, its pilots make an average of $175,000 a year. Over at FedEx, the company says the offer of a pay increase to $200,000 a year was rejected by its pilots' union. Pilots for both companies say the shippers are high profitable and can afford to share the wealth.

Well, that's different than the passenger airlines, of course, several of which are in bankruptcy protection. Yesterday, Delta asked a judge to let it out of the contract with its pilots so it can force wage and benefit cuts.

Now, $200,000, $175,000 a year, I think a lot of people aren't going to feel sympathetic to them, but it goes beyond that. They want to secure their pensions, things like that, and you can certainly understand why, because a lot of companies are defaulting on those obligations.

WALLACE: And I'm wondering, also, are the markets sort of taking into effect some of the jitters we're seeing with Delta, with UPS and FedEx, as well?

LEE: Well, yesterday G.M. hit an 18-year low. Certainly some concern about that company's viability. That was one thing that sent the Dow down 11 points.

But this morning, futures are looking up. So we could see some green hours at the 9:30 bell for this Thursday.

WALLACE: All right, Carrie, with the "Business Buzz."

Always great to see you.

LEE: You, too.

Thanks, Kelly.

WALLACE: Thanks so much.

And we now want to talk a lot more about business. More job cuts, we've been telling you about, at newspapers owned by the Tribune Company. Five newspapers, including the "Los Angeles Times" and "Chicago Tribune," are laying off staff members. The company cites declining circulation and revenue for those cuts.

Last week, another Tribune paper, the "Baltimore Sun," announced similar cost cutting moves.

So here's our question -- are you worried about your job?

It seems like plenty of people are these days. Just take a look at this. In a new survey taken over the past two months, nearly 24 percent said it's very or somewhat possible that they will lose their job in the next year. Now, that's up from just over 19 percent in survey results released back in May.

We want to talk a lot more about this with our next guest, Katherine Ponds. She is senior vice president of career management Consulting with Right Management Consultants, the company that did those surveys.

Miss. Ponds, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

(AUDIO GAP)

WALLACE: I hope you can hear me. I'm not hearing you, but hopefully you can hear me.

my first question to you is the big question -- why? Are you all able to understand or examine why there is this dramatic increase in just six months of the number of people who are worried about losing, possibly losing their jobs?

(AUDIO GAP)

WALLACE: OK, I think we are still having technical problems.

We're going to work those out, get out those kinks in the system and talk with Katherine Ponds about all of this.

We'll be right back here on DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Live pictures of the start of this new day here in New York City.

Good morning, everyone.

I'm Kelly Wallace in today for Carol Costello.

Thanks so much for waking up with us.

We'll have your forecast in just a moment. Also coming up this half hour, some anger in the administration. We'll look at how the vice president and the president are responding to critics of their Iraq intelligence.

And did oil executives lie during Senate hearings last week? We'll take a closer look at what they said or didn't say.

All that ahead.

But first, these stories now in the news.

U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan is appealing for much more help for Pakistan's earthquake victims. Annan spoke on arrival in Pakistan to attend an international donors conference. The secretary general says the world just doesn't realize the gravity of the quake disaster.

Two more deaths have been linked to the deadly bird flu. The World Health Organization says the two cases in Indonesia were positive for the H5N1 virus. More than 60 people have died from that strain of the bird flu.

A Florida jury is expected to begin deliberations today in the murder of Carly Bruscia. You'll remember that the abduction of that 11-year-old girl was caught by a security camera in a car wash parking lot. Joseph Smith is charged with kidnapping and murder in that case.

To Jacqui Jeras in the Forecast Center now with news about very, very brisk temperatures threat much of the U.S. -- right, Jacqui?

JERAS: Yes, Kelly.

You're really going to have to bundle up today, because it is downright cold across parts of the country, especially across the upper Midwest and into the western Great Lakes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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