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Who Is Valerie Plame?; Toilet Training at Six Weeks Old?; Former FEMA Director Michael Brown's Revealing E-mails

Aired November 3, 2005 - 20:00   ET


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everybody. Glad to have you with us tonight, too.
Tonight, an explosive chain of events, all triggered when a secret agent was forced out of the shadows.


ZAHN (voice-over): She's the mysterious spy whose name is shaking up the White House and setting the stage for a nasty battle.

Mr. Libby has plead not guilty, and he wants a jury trial.

ZAHN: But who is Valerie Plame? And how did she set up a political storm?

A new witness -- what really happened inside these hurricane- battered hospital walls?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: If you left your mother in their -- quote, unquote -- "care," you are for certain she would be dead by now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred percent.

ZAHN: Our CNN investigation into mysterious deaths at a New Orleans hospital.

And flushed with pride -- wait until you see these incredible pictures, parents toilet-training their babies as soon as they are born.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ninety percent of poops and I would 75 percent of pees...




ZAHN: Can this really be the end of the dirty diaper?


ZAHN: And welcome back. I want to start with the embarrassing scandal that's threatening the heart of the Bush administration. Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, went to court for the first time today, where he pleaded not guilty to five counts of lying about the CIA leak case. He is accused of obstruction of justice, making false statements to the FBI and perjuring himself before a grand jury.

Chief national correspondent John King was in the courtroom this morning. And he joins us now.

So, John, you were there as Mr. Libby heard more about his fate. Describe to us what the atmosphere was like when you had this first indictment of a White House official to come down in, what, 130 years.


Paula, on the one hand, it was very businesslike, the judge running the proceedings in a very orderly fashion. And, yet, it was so dramatic. There was Scooter Libby standing there, talking to his lawyers, the special prosecutor just a few steps away. They did not speak, but they were right there with each other -- Scooter Libby, as -- as you noted, pleading not guilty to these charges.

He seemed out of place, if you will. I am used to seeing him around the White House. He spoke only 15 words at the hearing, waving his right to a speedy trial, pleading not guilty. On the way out of the courtroom, I asked him how he was holding up. He smiled and he nodded.

And, Paula, he noted how unusual it was, as well, saying -- quote -- "This isn't where I'm used to seeing you."

ZAHN: We learned today that he has brought in an aggressive new defense team. Can you give us any insights as to what their strategy might be from here on out?

KING: You heard from Ted Wells. One of the attorneys spoke publicly, saying they will fight this, not in the media, but he said, they will fight this quite aggressively.

They also served notice in the hearing that they believe this trial could take some time to get to trial, because they said they expect to have protracted litigation on First Amendment issues, meaning, this new aggressive defense team is not only going to challenge the prosecutor's case, but is going to try to question the reporters, who are critical to the prosecutor's case, and, we are told, likely to ask for their notes, for their e-mails back and forth with their editors.

So, look for this trial to take a long time just to get to trial. And look for these new defense lawyers to be very aggressive.

ZAHN: And, if it ultimately happens, what is the potential embarrassment for the White House and, in particular, for Vice President Cheney? KING: Well, certainly, Paula, the vice president is certain to be called as a witness in this trial. One of the questions is, will he try to fight that? Will he claim privilege?

Will he try -- if he doesn't get a privilege or doesn't try to claim privilege, will he try to have a deposition taken and read at the trial, instead of appearing as a witness? Anyone close to the vice president says those decisions are weeks, if not months, down the road. And there could be pressure on Scooter Libby, eventually, to cut a deal with prosecutors.

But, right now, everyone says, give his defense attorneys time. They won't even get the government's evidence for at least four to six weeks, because so much of it is classified -- one of the most dramatic points in the courtroom today, Scooter Libby's lawyers being told they need to apply now for security clearance, so they can see all the classified records.

ZAHN: John, it's interesting that you just said there could be pressure on him down the road to strike some kind of a deal. You got to imagine there's a certain amount of pressure on him now to do that, no?

KING: Certainly, there is. But everyone says innocent until proven guilty. Give him a chance to attack the government's case, to call into question the government's case.

But the next hearing is in February. And no one believes you could have a trial at least until the spring. Some say much later next year. Well, next year is an even-numbered year, the midterm elections of the president's second term. Republicans in Congress will be nervous. There could be pressure on Scooter Libby from outside sources.

And everyone at the White House says they would never get involved in that at all. But there could be pressure to cut a deal, because it would be embarrassing politically. The question is, if there is such pressure, would he heed it?

ZAHN: That's the $64 million question.

John King, thanks so much. Appreciate the update.

Meanwhile, Valerie Plame probably qualifies as the best known spy in America right now. But what do we really know about her? Just who is this apparently demure-looking woman in sunglasses and a scarf, who, after her secret was revealed, posed in "Vanity Fair" magazine, and ends up being at the center of the CIA leak case?

Well, we asked national security correspondent David Ensor to pull back the covers.


DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From her house in this quiet upscale Washington neighborhood, Valerie Wilson tries to carry on life as usual, avoiding cameras and turning down interviews, as required by her CIA employers, taking care of her 5-year-old twins.

Yet, her face, alongside her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, is everywhere. Nothing will ever be the same for the nation's most famous spy.

JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: She still goes to work every day. She obviously can no longer be a covert officer.

ENSOR: Wilson says there have even been threats.

MELISSA MAHLE, FRIEND OF VALERIE PLAME AND FORMER CIA OFFICER: You know, I think she has done an admirable job handling the stress and coming to terms with what it all means, the whole package of it. And she's fairly philosophical about it. That doesn't mean she's not angry.

ENSOR: Melissa Mahle, who left the CIA and wrote a book about it, says Valerie Wilson reached out to her to talk about the challenge for an undercover officer when she loses her cover.

MAHLE: All of a sudden, your family and your friends, having to own up that you have been lying to them all this time. And, in my case, you know, I -- I chose my time, and I was prepared. And I presented my -- my case, so to speak, for why I was deceitful. But, you know, Valerie didn't have that choice.

ENSOR (on camera): Right.

MAHLE: And she had to deal with it just as it hit her smack in the face.

ENSOR (voice-over): Still working at the CIA, she can only do desk work now. And, for some of her colleagues, she's radioactive.

JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FRIEND OF VALERIE PLAME AND FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: She can't even go out after work for a beer with those people anymore, because, since everyone knows her, by association, her friends in the agency will have their own cover put at risk, should they be seen out in public with her now.

ENSOR: Valerie's cloak-and-dagger career started 20 years ago in the CIA training school shown in the Al Pacino movie "The Recruit."


AL PACINO, ACTOR: We're going to hand you the tools, the black arts, not witchcraft, tradecraft.


PACINO: Disguise, surveil, detect.


ENSOR: Like Melissa Mahle, Valerie learned to shoot. Jim Marcinkowski was in her class.

MARCINKOWSKI: My recollection is that her and a few other of the -- the ladies in our group ended up being pretty good with some of the -- some of the weapons.

ENSOR: Born in Alaska, daughter of an Air Force officer, Valerie attended high school near Philadelphia. But the CIA job led to glamorous international assignments, study at the London School of Economics and in Belgium. Fluent in French, German and Greek, she got overseas assignments and trips, tracking shadowy arms dealers marketing weapons of mass destruction, while posing as an energy consultant.

The cover came off in July 2003, the moment Robert Novak's column exposing her CIA job hit the newsstands.

MARCINKOWSKI: This lady has gone through a lot. This is -- this is one tough woman. There's -- there's no question about it. You -- you take her. You -- you -- you have threats against her family. You end her career. You kick her around like a football. And the only thing this woman has ever done is work for almost 20 years on behalf of the national security of the people of the United States. That's what makes this thing totally outrageous.

ENSOR: Critics question the Wilsons' decision to pose for "Vanity Fair" magazine, saying it undermined her argument against those who leaked her identity. Joe Wilson says, those critics should get a life.

WILSON: Yes. I wish I was back there now.


ZAHN: And that was national security correspondent David Ensor.

Joe Wilson, as you might have heard a little bit early on, says his wife is still with the CIA and is still going to work every day, just as she has done for the past 20 years. She will be vested in the CIA's pension system some time over the next several months.

We are going to move on in just a minute. But I want to give you a heads-up. Senator John McCain is the guest on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. He's sure to have something to say about the CIA leak case, as well as judge Samuel Alito's nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Now back to us. We have come across a disturbing story about a woman who survived Hurricane Katrina, but now her son says what happened after the storm at a New Orleans hospital nearly killed her.


GRIFFIN: If you left your mother in their -- quote, unquote -- "care," you are for certain she would be dead by now?


ZAHN: So, what happened? Our Drew Griffin has new details from a CNN investigation.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve in Washington. More e-mails from former FEMA Director Michael Brown written in the days after Hurricane Katrina, do they show he just didn't get it or are they just part of the story? The details coming up.


ZAHN: And, also ahead, a child-raising controversy that could drive mothers, and even fathers, nuts. Can you potty-train your baby as early as six weeks old, if you have never put them in diapers?


ZAHN: Right now, we have the very latest for you on a story that we have been reporting on over the last couple of weeks.

Our investigative team has been digging into mysterious deaths at one New Orleans hospital after Hurricane Katrina and allegations that staff discussed performing mercy killings on patients. Louisiana authorities are investigating that as well.

And, tonight, our investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, has found a new witness who was at Memorial Hospital who says his mother almost died there.


GRIFFIN (voice-over): It is the first time he has been back and the first time he has ever spoken about what happened at New Orleans' Memorial Hospital. Lionel Hall's mother was a stroke patient here during the hurricane. And, in the chaos that followed, he believes, if his mother had been left alone, she would have died.

(on camera): if you did not do what you did, if you left your mother in their -- quote, unquote -- "care," you are for certain she would be dead by now?

HALL: One hundred percent, just like any of the other people that they found here dead.

GRIFFIN: And she is, today, 100 percent alive.

HALL: One hundred percent alive.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Artie Hall had a stroke weeks before Katrina and was being cared for in room 5128. As the hurricane approached, Lionel Hall says he came to the hospital determined to be with his mom. They survived the storm, but the aftermath, he says, nearly killed them both.

HALL: I believe the truth should be told, because it was a sad thing that happened here.

GRIFFIN: News spread quickly through the hospital, he said, that patients on life support were dying because there was no power. Panic crept in. Those who could get out did. But invalids, like his mother, had to stay behind. He says that, after a few days, hospital administrators said it was time for him to go.

HALL: So...

GRIFFIN (on camera): And they said specifically to you what?

HALL: We want you to leave your mother with us. And, you guys, leave.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A spokesman for Tenet Healthcare, which owns the hospital, said the staff performed heroically. While not addressing Lionel Hall specifically, the spokesman said people were encouraged to evacuate as transport became available.

Lionel Hall met Dr. Bryant King, a contracted doctor working inside Memorial. It was Dr. Bryant King, he says, who convinced him, if his mother stayed, she would die.

HALL: What he said to me was, "They are all going to burn in hell" -- his words to me. And he said, man, let's get your mother. Let's get her through a wall and let's get her out of here. And we proceeded to do so.

GRIFFIN: In exclusive interviews with CNN, it was Dr. Bryant King who first went public with allegations that some doctors and an administrator discussed putting patients out of their misery, performing mercy killings at Memorial in the aftermath of the storm. King says, an administrator suggested praying. And then there was this.

DR. BRYANT KING, MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: I looked around, and one of the other physicians -- not the one who had the conversation with me, but another, had a handful of syringes. I don't know what's in the syringes. I don't know what -- and the only thing I heard her say is: I'm going to give you something to make you feel better.

I don't know what she was going -- what she was going to give them. But we hadn't been giving -- we hadn't been giving medications like that to -- to make people feel better or any sort of palliative care or anything like that. We hadn't been doing that up to this point.

GRIFFIN: Lionel Hall left New Orleans' Memorial Hospital on Thursday, September 2. He and his mother were two of the last people to leave this hospital alive, he said. He's convinced, if he hadn't been here that day, his mother would be dead.

HALL: She would not be here, as well as some of the other people that were here alive when we left, and they were not when -- let's just say when America found out there were people here dead.


GRIFFIN: Forty-five patients, Paula, were found dead at Memorial Hospital. The Louisiana attorney general is investigating whether any of them died as a result of euthanasia. And toxicology reports on their bodies are due back any day now -- Paula.

ZAHN: But, Drew, I think we also need to point out that the coroner of Orleans Parish said this last week, that, because of the bodies inside the Memorial, it would be very -- the condition of them -- it would be very difficult to find evidence of euthanasia. So, is there an expectation it will ever be proved that that's what happened?

GRIFFIN: Well, we have yet to find that out.

But, just this evening, Paula, a spokesperson for the attorney general's office says that the investigation is very busy, very active, and also said this, that they have no reason to believe that they are not going to be able to "do our jobs," regardless of what the coroner said.

The attorney general is doing an aggressive investigation that is very much ongoing into the potential of euthanasia.

ZAHN: So, how long do you think this could take, Drew?

GRIFFIN: You know, I just don't know. Seventy-three subpoenas sent out last week -- they have got to investigate, talk to each and every one of those. And they also are waiting for those all-important toxicology results to find out if there is anything, any trace of anything in those bodies that could prove a clue to this mystery.

ZAHN: Drew Griffin, thanks so much for the update. Appreciate it.

We're going to change our focus as we continue. Still to come, she had sex appeal, designer clothes and a severe drug problem. Is she the only one? Or is the fashion industry hiding something?

And, if you are having trouble deciding whether to get a dog or a cat, just keep on watching us tonight for a story that proves which one is man's best friend.

Right now -- now -- at 19 minutes past the hour, time to check in with Erica Hill at Headline News -- Erica.


In the effort to rein in rising government spending, the Senate narrowly approved $36 billion in cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and subsidies to farmers. The vote was 52-47, but the battle will now move to the House, where even deeper cuts may come.

Senate Republicans also defeated a Democratic attempt to keep the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge off-limits to oil companies. Democrats wanted the issue struck from the current budget.

Judge Samuel Alito will begin his Supreme Court confirmation hearings early next year. The Senate Judiciary Committee set a date for January 9, with a possible vote by the end of January.

And a Texas death row inmate managed to change clothing, walk out of Houston's Harris County Jail today. Charles Victor Thompson was sentenced to death for the 1998 murders of an ex-girlfriend and her boyfriend. The Harris County sheriff is now asking the public to call if they know of Thompson's whereabouts.

Paula, those are the headlines at this hour -- back over to you.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Erica.

Coming up, proof that you should never, ever send an e-mail. Of course, that's pretty unreasonable. But the e-mail traffic to and from former FEMA Director Michael Brown during the height of the crisis in New Orleans is surprising, to say the least. Just wait. We will share some of them with you.

And a little bit later on, talk about dirty laundry. If you don't use diapers, will you be able to potty train your baby faster, like, starting at the age of six weeks, or will you end up with just an unbelievable mess? We will show you.


ZAHN: Remember all the anger and outrage over FEMA during the Hurricane Katrina crisis and how much of it was directed right at Mike Brown? Well, get ready for more, because a Democratic congressman has just released some of the e-mails Brown wrote during the crisis while he was still FEMA's director.

And you might think they are enough to make anyone think twice about hitting the send button.

Here's Jeanne Meserve with more.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monday, August 29, Hurricane Katrina has just ravaged New Orleans. Beginning at 9:36 in the morning, FEMA Director Michael Brown receives a series of e-mails reporting levee failures.

One FEMA staffer is hearing of severe flooding. Police report water level up to second floor of two-story houses. People are trapped in attics. Michael Brown's one-line response to all of this: "I'm being told here, water over, not a breach."

Democratic Congressman Charlie Melancon from Louisiana, who released the e-mails, says Brown's response shows he didn't grasp the dire situation.

REP. CHARLIE MELANCON (D), LOUISIANA: Topped or breach, it doesn't matter. Water is going over the top. There is another circumstance that needs to be addressed, and he should be asking for more information.

MESERVE: Brown receives a flurry of e-mails about shortages of water and ice. But there is no response in the e-mails that have so far been released. And when Marty Bahamonde, the lone FEMA representative in New Orleans, tells Brown the situation is past critical, Brown answers: "Thanks for the update. Anything specific I need to do or tweak?"

Brown does, however, answer e-mails about his appearance on television. When a staffer tells him, "You look fabulous," Brown responds: "I got it at Nordstrom's. Are you proud of me? Can I quit now? Can I come home?" and later calls himself "a fashion god."

He also sends an e-mail asking, "Do you know of anyone who dog- sits?"

MELANCON: Thousands and thousands of people who didn't get out were on the roofs of houses, were in need of rescue, were looking for somebody to take command. If they only knew that he was worried about a dog, rather than them, I think it would be quite distressing to them.


MESERVE: I spoke with Brown's lawyer, who said Brown was doing his job and that the e-mails represent only -- quote -- "a selective sliver of the record."

The House committee investigating Katrina has asked to see more, but so much more that the administration is having trouble pulling it all together -- Paula...

ZAHN: Jeanne...

MESERVE: ... back to you.

ZAHN: ... I'm just wondering if that same attorney told you anything specifically related to the e-mails regarding his appearance on TV and finding that dog-sitter.

MESERVE: Yes, first on the dog sitter, the lawyer, Andy Lester, says, listen, we have all been on the road and confronted personal issues like this.

Brown's wife was away. He obviously was going to have to stay in Louisiana. He needed someone to take care of the dog. So, he sent that e-mail. On the -- on the matter of appearance, Mr. Lester says he finds it ironic that any member of Congress should criticize anybody else for being concerned about how they look on TV -- Paula.

ZAHN: Some people might think he has a point there.

Jeanne Meserve, thanks so much.

MESERVE: You bet.

ZAHN: Coming up, can you believe mothers are trying to potty- train kids as young as six weeks old?




ZAHN: Coming up, would you be willing to do this at least 20 times a day to get your baby out of diapers? And does it work? Or is it just another reason to make a mom feel neurotic?

And, a little bit later on, the pictures that walked a supermodel straight off the runway to a place she really doesn't want to be. Why did she do that to herself?


ZAHN: When I was a new mom, if anybody had told me that I could toilet train a newborn baby, I probably would have thought they were nuts. They're not even close to being able to walk at that age, let alone use the bathroom, but you're about to meet some parents who are trying just that with their newborns. And they say, it works. Here's medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.


ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Zander (ph) lives the life of your average baby. Daddy takes him on airplane rides. Mommy feeds him and cleans him. But here's the one rather unusual part. When Zander has to poop or pee, he often uses the potty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You still straining?

COHEN: That's right. Zander, 7-week-old Zander, uses the potty. And if you think that's odd, keep watching because it gets even odder. Frankly, Zander's parents, Corey Lynn Campbell (ph) and Eric Singer (ph), think American society is kind of odd for putting babies in diapers all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The idea of a baby sort of sitting in his own urine and feces is not -- you know, it is sort of -- you know, when you think about it, it's not very nice, so.

COHEN: They subscribe to a theory called the elimination communication. The elimination part, use diapers as little as possible and your baby will likely be toilet trained by his first birthday, rather than by his third like the average American baby. The communication part, it only works if parents keep a watchful eye on their baby, look for a squirm, a grimace, something that lets them know it's time to go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The idea is to, you know, sort of get in touch with when your baby needs to go and then just hold him over a receptacle.

COHEN: This whole concept was so mind blowing that I joined Eric and Cory Lynn at an elimination communication meeting in New York City. It's part of and they say their Web site is booming, coordinating meetings in 37 states and around the world. This woman hasn't even had her baby. She's four months pregnant and wants to learn how to start elimination communication or EC, right at birth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have actually just housebroken my dog, and I know there's no comparison.

COHEN: The group leader's advice.

CHRISTINE GROSS LOH, DIAPERFREEBABY.ORG: Just plunging in and take your baby's diaper off and seeing where that takes you is a really important first step.

COHEN (on camera): Why does it matter when a child gets out of diapers?

LOH: It really does not matter when a child gets out of diapers. It's about communicating with your child about something that he is trying to tell you from the time he's born. They are born with that instinct not to soil themselves.

COHEN (voice-over): But this is where doctors think parents may be a little off base. Famed pediatrician Dr. T. Berry Brazelton says that this is more about the parents.

DR. T. BERRY BRAZELTON, PEDIATRICIAN: Why, as a culture, are we so uptight about when a child gets toilet trained? I keep wondering why parents feel under so much pressure.

COHEN: Dr. Mark Wolraich is a spokesman for the American Academy of Pediatrics and wrote their guide to potty training. He doesn't think EC is necessarily harmful, but he worries parents could get too pushy.

DR. MARK WOLRAICH, PEDIATRICIAN: I certainly sense some element of this is a parental achievement or achievement in their children as a reflection of how they are doing.

COHEN: Maybe so, but these parents point to some of the practical aspects of EC. Consider these statistics. In a year, a baby goes through roughly 2,500 disposable diapers. Multiply that by three and it's 7,500 at a cost of $3,000 before the baby is toilet trained. And every year, according to the "New York Times," 22 billion disposable diapers end up in U.S. landfills.

(on camera): So here's the big. Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think why we do EC is we do it because we feel like it's good for our Nashama (ph).

COHEN: Lamell (ph) and Nashama Ryman (ph) are EC veterans. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The current stats are something like 90 percent of poops and, I'd say, 75 percent of pees ...

COHEN: End up in the potty?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... in the potty.

COHEN (voice-over): Lamell watches for a sign that 9-month-old Nashama is ready to eliminate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that was a nose rub.

COHEN (on camera): That was a nose rub. So what do we do?

(voice-over): This nose rub was a false alarm. Lamell keeps watch. In the mornings when Nashama needs to go more frequently, she ends up on the potty every 20 minutes or so. That's right. Every 20 minutes. Many new, overwhelmed parents would find that daunting.

DR. MICHEL COHEN, AUTHOR, "THE NEW BASICS": You see a lot of parents are actually pretty stressed out with taking care of babies because of this performance-oriented way of doing things.

COHEN (on camera): But to do this, what happens if you are cooking something or you had to answer the phone or if you had another child. Could you really be paying attention to little signs like that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do the very best I can. And when I'm not able to catch it, like I can't even see her right now, so she could be making a puddle on the floor right now for all I know. So I just go wipe it up. It's not a big deal.

COHEN: Why should she have to communicate her eliminations. She's nine months old. Why can't she just be sort of free and easy and use a diaper?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a great question. I mean, I think that really cuts to the core of why I bother with this altogether. I actually really feel like she's happier now as opposed to when she was wearing diapers, up until she was four months old.


COHEN (voice-over): And that's how Eric and Corey Lynn feel, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Usually he'll, you know, he'll sort of have a big poop and then, you know, look up at us in the mirror and just grin and smile, which was not the case when he -- before, when he was going in his diaper most of the time.

COHEN: Any place apparently is better than a diaper.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: That was pretty obvious from that picture. Elizabeth Cohen reporting. Let's get a second medical opinion on this one. Joining me now, Dr. Laura Popper, a pediatrician, a mother of two. Would you ever try this when the kids were younger?


ZAHN: Does it work?

POPPER: I think it probably works. If you don't work. You have to spend all of your time doing this.

ZAHN: At one point someone was saying every 20 minutes she had to be mindful what her child was going to do next.

POPPER: I suspect if you don't have to work outside your home, if you don't have to raise other children -- it seems a rather self- centered way of living.

ZAHN: Does it create unrealistic expectations? Is there a way this could be harmful to a baby?

POPPER: I don't think it's harmful on its face. Now, the question is, what are the needs of the parents who are doing this?

ZAHN: Brand new mothers and fathers are very tired.

POPPER: Very tired. I imagine -- I can't imagine. We had a puppy a couple of years ago, and it reminded me of having young children, having to get up every two hours as he whined and whimpered and had to go to the bathroom. I would never want to do this. And I took a survey in my practice and not a person thought this was something they'd be interested in doing.

ZAHN: But when you hear these moms talk about this bonding experience, we don't want to denigrate that. I mean, that might be part of this whole shared experience.

POPPER: I don't want to denigrate anything that someone is choosing to do. I think it's a very sideshow kind of thing. It's very small number of people. I would bet the ranch that this will not become a big deal in this country. It is so very much against the way we live our lives.

ZAHN: And yet, of course, there are societies where diapers aren't readily available. And isn't this sort of what they do to survive with their kids?

POPPER: Yes, and it makes sense. It makes sense if you're out in the field and you have your child strapped to you and you are really sort of at one with your child. You don't have a disposable diapers. You probably don't have regular diapers. It makes a great deal of sense. It's part of what your life is like. But how would you feel if your kids were little and they were on set with you and you had to do this every 20 minutes. I don't think the audience would be happy. ZAHN: No, I don't think they would, and I think we'd hide that from them. But finally, there are so many things that conspire to make brand new parents feel insecure and inadequate. Could this potentially be one of the effects of this?

POPPER: Sure, I think that's possible. I think parents have to really depend on their gut and more than on people and experts. This probably will not fit into most people's lives. And it certainly shouldn't be a competition. I did it at two months, you did it at three months.

ZAHN: Sure, I can see the trophies already.

POPPER: That's right. That's a horrible idea. That's not why you want to be doing something like this.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your viewpoint, Dr. Popper. Good to have you stop by.

We're going to change our focus now. Supermodel Kate Moss' career is still reeling from some sensational pictures allegedly showing her using cocaine. But is she the only one?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's everywhere. It's all around us. You keep an eye on those girls coming in and out of the bathrooms, and they are just wiping the noses.


ZAHN: Stay with us for an eye-opening trip into the world of glittering fashion and open secrets.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands in Northern California, and this is Honey. You're not going to believe what this little puppy did after her owner's car fell down this cliff. She ran to get help. It is an amazing story. We'll have it coming up on PAULA ZAHN NOW.


ZAHN: On the face of it, things are looking up this week for model Kate Moss. She just got out of drug rehab, and she is back on magazine covers. But that picture on the cover of the new issue of Vanity Fair was taken a year ago and the article in the magazine is about whether she can make a comeback.

So, it's a little too soon to say if she'll be able to rescue her career. Two months ago, some of her biggest clients fired her because of tabloid pictures that showed her snorting what looked like cocaine.

Before Moss got out of drug treatment, entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas gave us this look inside the world of high fashion and drugs.


SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a world of larger than life supermodels, Christy, Linda, Cindy and Naomi. Kate Moss burst onto the scene like an anointed David in a land of Goliaths.

At a mere 5'8, Moss redefined the face of fashion with her slender, almost emaciated look, a look that came to be known as heroin chic.

KATE MOSS, MODEL: Between love and madness lies obsession.

VARGAS: The fashion world was obsessed with Kate Moss.

KATE BETTS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, TIME STYLE & DESIGN: You could say that Kate Moss sort of peaked with the whole heroin chic thing in the Calvin Klein ad campaign. When she was appearing on fashion runways about 10 years ago, but her career has actually continued very strongly for the past 10 years.

VARGAS: Now Moss' career is in peril, all because of pictures published in London's "Daily Mirror" of the model allegedly snorting cocaine. Pictures that sparked an international firestorm, costing Moss millions of dollars in endorsement deals. Chanel, Burberry, Dior and H&M all cut their ties with the supermodel.

BETTS: Business is business. I mean, that's pretty a pretty cold, hard thing to say, I know, but they don't have a choice. She's a role model and they aren't going to stand for it.

VARGAS: Janice Dickinson knows the fashion world. The author and self-described, world's first supermodel, has spoken frankly about her own history with drugs.

I caught up with her at a fashion show in L.A. to talk about Moss. She says it's time to face the issue. Drug use is the modeling industry's dirty little secret.

JANICE DICKINSON, MODEL/AUTHOR: It's everywhere, it's all around us. You keep an eye on those girls coming in and out of the bathrooms and they are just wiping the noses still. Girls are taking ecstasy. They are taking different types of designer drugs now. Everyone is touchy, touchy, feely, feely in the clubs after they do their fashion shows. It's like, whoa, you know, there's nothing new that's -- just drug abuse out there right now.

VARGAS: Dickinson told me she thinks modeling agencies look the other way.

DICKINSON: It fuels the agency and the agency makes money off a girl who has a lot of energy because she does a lot of drugs.

VARGAS: She's outraged at how the industry has turned its back on Kate Moss and had a message for the designers who dropped Moss from their campaigns. DICKINSON: You should be spanked, OK? You should re-give her back her contracts after she gets out of rehab and that's enough of it. That's what I have to say to you. Rather than assisting a girl who has problems with drugs, you want to go and punish her.

VARGAS: Dickinson, who served as consultant to the critically acclaimed biopic, Gia, says Moss' story remind her of model Gia Carangi, a heroin addict who died of AIDS.

DICKINSON: Everyone is being made a scapegoat. Kate, myself, Gia, we are the bad girls of modeling.

VARGAS: Supermodel Naomi Campbell who has admitted using drugs herself in the past, has also come to Moss' defense.

NAOMI CAMPBELL, MODEL: I think everyone is bantering her, and it's too much. It's like she hasn't killed anybody.

VARGAS: But can this one-time fashion icon rise to the top again?

BETTS: I think she can come back. I think it depends on how she handles it and how she talks about it. I think everybody loves a comeback story, and especially in the fashion world.


ZAHN: Frozen in time there, Sibila Vargas reporting for us tonight.

Now that Moss is out of rehab, she is reportedly spending some time with friends in the Caribbean.

Now every now and then, people can let you down. But, we have discovered an amazing story about a dog. She was adopted from a shelter and returned the favor by saving her owner's life just weeks after she was adopted. You don't want to miss this one.

Then at the top of the hour, "LARRY KING LIVE" will be talking about politics in, maybe 2008, for Senator John McCain.

We'll take a short break, we'll be right back.


ZAHN: Back at about 10 minutes before the hour here, that means it's time for news about your money. Erica Hill has the Headline News business break for you.


ZAHN: Thanks so much, Erica.

"LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up in just a few minutes.

Hi, Larry. We know Senator McCain will be joining you. Anybody else or does he have the whole hour?

LARRY KING, HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: He has the whole hour because he is never dull, he has interesting things to say and three he's a maverick. And when you can combine all those three, it's a pretty good idea to have him as a guest and we'll take a lot of calls, too. John McCain of Arizona tonight at the top of the hour, following one of my favorite people on the planet, Paula Zahn.

ZAHN: Larry, I bet you say that to everybody who is tossing into your show.

KING: No, I don't. Would you stop doing that? You are one of my -- how can I convince you, Paula?

ZAHN: They won't give you enough time, Larry. You're going to have to do it tomorrow night. Will you hold that thought and share it with me, same time, same place tomorrow night?

KING: Bring your cello.

ZAHN: No, another time. Have a good show. Tell Senator John McCain we said hello.

Now this is something that I get to say that I don't often get to say here in prime-time television. We want you to actually call your kids into the room for our next story. You can even promise them a happy ending at tuck-in time. Nobody wanted her, but when this man adopted her, little did he know he was adopting a life saver. Don't go away for this amazing story.


ZAHN: We've gone big time there on the billboard front. I want you to watch this next story because even though it sounds like something out of an old Lassie rerun, this one happens to be true. It's a man near San Francisco, his puppy, and what could have been a tragedy. Here's Ted Rowlands.


ROWLANDS (voice-over): In a Northern California hospital, Michael Bosch had a very special visitor this morning, who he says saved his life.

MICHAEL BOSCH, NORTHERN CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, honey. Hi, honey. Hello, honey. Come here, baby. Come here. Come here to me.

ROWLANDS: Honey, a 5-month-old Cocker Spaniel was with Michael Monday morning when he plunged 50 feet down his hillside driveway.

BOSCH: When we got into the soft soil, it just started to tip. And I knew I was in trouble.

ROWLANDS: The SUV hit a tree. Michael and Honey were trapped, pinned inside, hanging upside down in a remote area on private land.

BOSCH: I sort of went through my mind, who is going to find me on 70 acres.

ROWLANDS: Michael, who suffered a heart attack in August, said his race heart was racing. He says he took a nitroglycerin pill to calm himself down. Then, he saw a hole in a smashed window big enough for Honey to get through.

BOSCH: I saw the opening. And I said Honey, you got to go home. And I pushed her out there and scurried her up the hill.

ROWLANDS: Michael then waited hoping he could stay alive until someone could find him.

BOSCH: My only hope was that dog.

ROWLANDS: Six hours later, now evening, a quarter mile away Robin Allen came home from work and found Honey in her driveway.

ROBIN ALLEN, NEIGHBOR: She wanted to get my attention. There's no question about it.

ROWLANDS: Robin had never seen Honey, but the phone number was Michael's, so she drove the puppy home. When she opened her car door, she could hear Michael yelling.

ALLEN: Then I realized he was yelling help.

ROWLANDS: It took rescue crews 45 minutes to get Michael out of the SUV and pull him up the hillside. With major injuries to his chest and legs, Michael was rushed to a waiting medical helicopter.

Michael only adopted Honey two weeks ago from this Northern California pet shelter. He had been coming here looking for the right dog for more than a year and immediately spotted Honey two days after she arrived.

CAROL WILLIAMS-SKAGGS, MARIN CO. HUMANE SOCIETY: I think she was just meant to be his. I think that she worked her way here for that reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a match made in heaven.

BOSCH: Yes. You're my baby, aren't you?

ROWLANDS: Despite five broken ribs and limited feeling in one of his legs, Michael says being reunited with Honey is already making him feel better.

BOSCH: She's never leaving my side again. I'll tell you that. That dog saved my life.


ZAHN: I don't blame him. Ted Rowlands reporting. If you don't already have a dog, don't you want one now? And isn't this another great argument for adopting a pet. Before we let you go, we've just gotten in some incredible pictures we want to share with you. Look at this, this is not a movie stunt. A helicopter dropped off a couple of deputies on top of an Amtrak train in Ventura County just northwest of Los Angeles. They tried to help subdue a man who had actually jumped on to the train from an overpass.

He fell about 20 feet, broke his ankle. But actually started waving to people when the train started moving.

About five miles down the tracks the train finally stopped. All those folks you saw on the scene ended up subduing the man who was later taken to a hospital. Authorities say he has a history of mental problems. And it's not clear at this hour exactly what he was trying to accomplish there. But he certainly got an awful lot of attention for it.

That's wraps it up for all of us here tonight. We appreciate you're dropping by. We will be here same time, same place tomorrow night. In the meantime, let's check in with Larry King. His show starts right now.


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