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PAULA ZAHN NOW
Iraq Becoming Vietnam?; Cancer Warning For Women; Interview With Former Sister-in-Law of Eric Rudolph
Aired August 22, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to a brand new week here.
Tonight, a question that is getting more controversial every day, so controversial, the president himself is now weighing in.
ZAHN (voice-over): Selling the war.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will finish the task that they gave their lives for.
ZAHN: But is Iraq turning into another Vietnam?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: We are getting more and more bogged down, taking more and more casualties.
ZAHN: The mind of a bomber.
DEBORAH RUDOLPH, FORMER SISTER-IN-LAW OF ERIC RUDOLPH: He believes that the Bible is the history of the white race.
ZAHN: My exclusive talk with Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph's former sister-in-law.
RUDOLPH: The other races in the Bible, you know, are just -- he would call them mud people.
ZAHN: Missed symptoms?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I left the office with allergy medication and the antibiotics and some antidepressants.
ZAHN: An important warning for women. What might look like stomach problems could actually be cancer in your ovaries.
ZAHN: We start tonight with America's summer of discontent with President Bush. Poll after poll shows his approval rating is dropping, a combination of dissatisfaction with the economy, high gas prices and the troubles in Iraq. Anti-war protesters are now shadowing the president, and not just at his ranch in Texas. They have also turned up today in Utah, where the president used a friendly audience to answer his Iraq critics. Here's Dana Bash.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Before an audience of veterans, an unusually blunt call for patience. For the first time, the president confronted critics by using the very number they say proves his Iraq policy is a failure.
BUSH: We've lost 1,864 members of our armed forces in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and 223 in Operation Enduring Freedom. Each of these men and women left grieving families and loved ones back home.
BASH: After eight days out of sight at his Texas ranch while the anti-war protest Cindy Sheehan sparked there held the spotlight, Mr. Bush appeared to respond to her chief complaint, her son died in vain and the troops should come home.
BUSH: We owe them something. We will finish the task that they gave their lives for.
BASH: His rationale for continuing the Iraq mission, vintage Bush, telling Americans they are not yet safe, framing it in the context of the broader war on terror with words that have angered critics before, evoking the mastermind of the September 11 attacks.
BUSH: Terrorists like bin Laden and his ally, Zarqawi, are trying to turn Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the Taliban.
BASH: This speech and one planned for Idaho Wednesday were scheduled months ago, but aides concede they come at a critical time for the president to once again make his case for staying in Iraq. But Cindy Sheehan followed the president here, too, on TV.
CINDY SHEEHAN, SON DIED IN IRAQ: How many more soldiers have to die before we say enough?
BASH: And down the street as the president spoke, hundreds of anti-war protesters. The president's urgent task to reinvigorate support for his Iraq policy is not just from opponents. GOP veteran of Vietnam, Senator Chuck Hagel, has been drawing similarities between that war, one the U.S. lost, and Iraq. Other red state Republicans home for summer recess say they are finding doubts about the war and the Bush plan on the rise.
ZAHN: That was Dana Bash reporting for us tonight.
Not only is violence a fact of life in Iraq; the country's political reconstruction isn't going that smoothly either. A few hours ago, and minutes before the deadline, negotiators submitted an incomplete draft constitution for Iraq's new government. They say they need three more days to finish it up. The proposed constitution is still opposed by an important minority, Iraq's Sunni Muslims.
Politically and militarily, is Iraq becoming a quagmire, like Vietnam?
And, in Washington, with no doubt different opinions from Victoria Clarke, a former Pentagon spokeswoman, now a CNN contributor, which is why we can call her Torie.
ZAHN: And Peter Beinart, the editor of "The New Republican."
Good to see you.
VICTORIA CLARKE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: Not "Republican." Did I just say that? "New Republic."
PETER BEINART, EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": "New Republic."
ZAHN: Torie, let's start off with what else Chuck Hagel is saying about his fear of what might happen to the U.S. in Iraq.
ZAHN: Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAGEL: There's no question there's a parallel emerging here between Iraq and Vietnam. I have said from the beginning and still say, there are a lot of mostly dissimilarities. But there are some similarities. And the longer we stay in Iraq, the more similarities will start to develop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So, Torie, as you would acknowledge, it's one thing to have Democrats saying quagmire, quagmire. But when very prominent Republicans are coming out and making comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam, how much trouble is that for the president?
CLARKE: Oh, it's certainly not helpful. But it's one of the reasons the president's doing what he did today and I hope he does a lot more of, is getting out there and explaining to people in a very comprehensive, very thoughtful fashion, here's what's going on, the good stuff...
ZAHN: But, Torie, what the president said today isn't all that different from every speech we've heard over the last four or five months.
CLARKE: Well, when you're talking about very, very difficult circumstances and challenging issues, you have to go out there and repeat it again and again.
Believe it or not, not everybody in this country gets up every day and is obsessed with every bit of news, as people like we are. So, you have to get out there and repeat it. You have to remind people what's at stake. You have to give people perspective about it. And you have to recognize the problems and the challenges in there, as he did today. It was an incredibly honest, straightforward speech.
And I hope we see more of it going forward, because you need to have that continued presence. If only your critics are out there filling the vacuum, then you're not going to get a very balanced picture what's going on.
ZAHN: Let us let Peter respond to that, as we put up the latest graphic showing the president's approval ratings, now resting at 36 percent, according to the American Research Group. That's a drop of six points since just July.
Was there anything you heard in the speech today, Peter, do you think, that would change those numbers? Torie said it's not just a matter of hearing from critics every day. It's trying to fill the void here.
BEINART: It really doesn't matter very much what George W. Bush says.
The truth of the matter is, it is largely now out of our hands. The only thing that can save this war, a war that I should say, even as a liberal, I supported, and that can save the Bush administration from becoming more unpopular, is in the hands of the Iraqis themselves. We have really lost the power there to control political events. Things are now in the hands of an Iraqi political class that has to rise to the occasion and, so far, I'm afraid, has not.
ZAHN: Do you see a quagmire down the road, Peter Beinart?
BEINART: What you see, what is like Vietnam, we went to Vietnam to protect South Vietnam, a country that turned out not really to be a country.
The great fear here is that Iraq, in fact, is not really a country that can be held together by anything but someone like a Saddam Hussein, that, in fact, it is starting to fracture and come apart. And it is like Vietnam in the sense that it is not a country with a unified national identity and we don't have the ability to hold it together.
ZAHN: What about that criticism, Torie, that there is no unified national identity? We know that this is -- the concept of democracy is new in this part of the world.
ZAHN: And is there any -- do you agree with anything Peter just said? Do you agree there are problems in this building process?
(CROSSTALK) CLARKE: Absolutely. But if you want to have a serious conversation about this, then you have to say, yes, there are problems but there are also positive things.
The progress the Iraqis have made on their constitution is amazing. And let's talk about some perspective. There was no national unified picture when this country was trying to get on its feet either. So, you look at the progress the Iraqis have made, and you can't do it all for them. The United States can't be in there dictating every line and every item of that. They cannot do it because it wouldn't be real; it wouldn't be an Iraqi solution.
I agree Peter. The ultimate plan here, the ultimate success will come from the Iraqis assuming more and more control for their own security, for the way forward for that country. And, no, it's not everything we would like. It's not as perfect as we'd like. But the progress on that score is in a forward direction. Are there plenty of problems? Absolutely.
But if you want to have a serious conversation, talk about the positives, as well as the negatives.
ZAHN: I want to move ahead to the issue of Cindy Sheehan, of course, the grieving mother who lost a son in Iraq. I want to play for our audience now just a small part of something she's done for a group called Gold Star Families For Peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, GOLD STAR FAMILIES FOR PEACE AD)
CINDY SHEEHAN, MOTHER OF KILLED U.S. SOLDIER: Why can't you be honest with us? You were wrong about the weapons of mass destruction. You were wrong about the link between Iraq and al Qaeda. You lied to us. And because of your lies, my son died. You said he died for a noble cause. What cause?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Peter, do you see this Really fueling a strong anti-war movement?
BEINART: There certainly is an anti-war movement, but of bigger concern for George W. Bush is not the anti-war movement. It's the much larger popular view that includes many people who are not part of a movement at all that, in fact, we're not accomplishing anything there, and it's a mistake.
The anti-war movement is not the problem. The problem is that a majority of Americans are losing patience with Iraq. And that is giving the Bush administration very, very little leverage to keep our troops in there for several more years.
ZAHN: All right. Before I get Torie the closing word, Peter, a lot of the people would argue, the Democrats have no message at all, that it's completely muddled. There's no unified message coming out of the Democratic Party.
BEINART: That will be for the next Democratic presidential candidate to unify this fractious party behind a message. And I think it's possible to do, but it's very hard to do when you're out of power.
ZAHN: You get the last word tonight, Torie.
CLARKE: It's so not about politics. You can't wait until 2008 to come up with your answer here.
And the worst answer of all is to say, pull out the troops. That wouldn't accomplish anything. It would probably make things worse. So, staying with the overall objectives we've had of helping the Iraqi people get that country up and running again are the good ones to stick with.
ZAHN: But I don't hear a unified call coming from the Democrats, do you, Peter, to pull out the troops now?
BEINART: No. Democrats...
CLARKE: Oh, you hear quite a few of them saying that.
ZAHN: But Senator Biden, who we know is going to run...
BEINART: Democrats are deeply divided about that question. But I predict, by next spring, Republicans will be deeply divided about it, too.
CLARKE: Could be.
ZAHN: All right. We are going to leave it there.
Victoria Clarke, Peter Beinart, good to have both of you with us, as always.
CLARKE: Thanks, Paula.
ZAHN: My pleasure.
Still to come, what shaped the mind of Olympic park bomber Eric Rudolph?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDOLPH: There were always mercenary magazines laying around the house, philosophy books, newspapers, controversial newspapers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Coming up, from his former sister-in-law, the making of an American terrorist.
And a little bit later on, warning signs of cancer, are you and your doctor missing them?
ZAHN: Still ahead tonight, from a former family member, a frightening portrait of Olympic park bomber Eric Rudolph on his sentencing day.
Plus, how did a one-time child actor end up in court and end up possibly facing the death penalty?
First, though, at just about 14 minutes past the hour, time to update the top stories.
Here's Sophia Choi of Headline News.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Paula.
Tonight, there are no more Israeli settlers in Gaza. Israeli defense forces removed the last of them from Netzarim today. It is the final settlement to be cleared out, after a week of emotional and sometimes violent forced evictions from Gaza. Israeli officials had expected the process to take weeks. Instead, it took only five days. Now Israeli troops in Gaza focusing on gathering up the settlers' belongings and tearing down the settlements.
Well, it could be weeks before we know what killed San Francisco 49er lineman Thomas Herrion. He collapsed in the locker room after the 49ers played the Broncos in a preseason game in Denver on Saturday night. He was just 23 years old and weighed more than 300 pounds. An autopsy has been done, but toxicology test results could take three to six weeks.
From Atlantic City to Los Angeles, federal agents in 11 cities today made 60 arrests in an investigation into Asian organized crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Operating like an online department store, the criminal enterprise ships counterfeit cigarettes, counterfeit pharmaceuticals, including Viagra, crystal methamphetamine, commonly known as ice, ecstasy, and, significantly, over $3.4 million of high- grade counterfeit U.S. currency, or super notes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHOI: Most of the arrests came in Atlantic City, where the feds ran an elaborate sting. Listen to this. They invited the suspects to a wedding on a yacht, unaware that the bride and groom were actually FBI agents.
Firefighting help from Spain France, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands is on the way now to Portugal, where 25 wildfires are raging out of control right now. Portugal's third-largest city, Coimbra, is surrounded by fires. Close to 350,000 acres have burned this summer in Portugal.
And the Coast Guard is looking into the mysterious disappearance of the boyfriend of singer Olivia Newton-John. Patrick Kim McDermott was last seen June 30 on an overnight fishing trip off the California coast. Newton-John is asking for help from anyone with information about this case. The two have been together for nine years.
And you may not recognize his face or his name, but Robert Moog changed everything about popular music with his invention of the synthesizer in the 1960s. Moog died on Sunday, about four months after being diagnosed with a brain tumor. He was 71.
I guess you can say Moog was the father of electronic music. And, Paula, everyone from the Beatles to Sonic Youth has used keyboards inspired by the Moog organ -- Paula.
ZAHN: I remember the first time I heard something coming out of a Moog synthesizer.
ZAHN: I think we were all amazed.
Sophia Choi, thanks so much.
ZAHN: See you a little bit later on in this hour.
Coming up next, though, how did bomber Eric Rudolph actually surprise the families of some of his victims today?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I expected the same level of arrogance, insensitivity, nonremorse. But I was -- I was somewhat taken aback.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Coming up next, though, the bomber's final sentence, and, from a former relative, what was he like growing up?
ZAHN: Eric Rudolph, who bombed abortion clinics, a gay nightclub and the 1996 Olympics, was sentenced today. He got four life terms, plus 120 years for three bombings in the Atlanta area. Last month, he also got a life term for a bombing in Alabama. Well, today, in federal court, in Atlanta, dozens of Rudolph's victims and their relatives delivered painful testimony at his sentencing hearing, among them, the family of a woman killed in the Olympic Park bombing.
Here's David Mattingly.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This would have been John and Alice Hawthorne's 18th wedding anniversary. Instead, it was the day that John Hawthorne went to court to speak to the man who killed his wife.
JOHN HAWTHORNE, WIFE KILLED IN OLYMPIC PARK BOMBING: This day to her, I'm sure, means that justice has been served and that she can now rest knowing that we're going to move forward.
MATTINGLY: It was more than nine years ago that Alice Hawthorne and her daughter Fallon Stubbs headed here to Atlanta. Alice was taking her daughter to see the 1996 Summer Olympics. But the party that night in Atlanta's Centennial Park was interrupted, a bomb ripping through the celebration.
(on camera): Alice Hawthorne was standing here by this bronze sculpture. If you look closely enough at it today, you can still see where the nails did their damage after the bomb went off. Alice was killed instantly. Fallon was wounded. And now, nine years after that bombing, Eric Rudolph was being sentenced just a few blocks from here.
(voice-over): Rudolph barely made eye contact with the string of victims who vented their anger. One told Rudolph: You will rot in hell. Another, Ron Smith, held up his hand and showed Rudolph how the Centennial Park bomb had scarred him for life.
RON SMITH, OLYMPIC PARK BOMBING VICTIM: I wanted him to know he blew off my finger and half my thumb. I wanted him to know that his shrapnel severed the sciatic nerve in my leg and left me with a partially paralyzed foot.
MATTINGLY: Fallon Stubbs used her time in court differently.
FALLON STUBBS, OLYMPIC PARK BOMBING VICTIM: Basically what I expressed was that, unlike a lot of others -- and their feelings are just, too -- that I do not hate him, that I forgive him. And that makes me feel better.
MATTINGLY: When it was his turn to speak, Eric Rudolph read briefly from a statement, apologizing for the bomb in Centennial Park, claiming he set it off to embarrass the U.S. government for its abortion policy. He read: "I would do anything to take back that night. To those victims, I apologize."
But Eric Rudolph did not apologize or even mention his other bombings in Atlanta for which he is being sentenced at an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, just as he did not apologize for another of his bombings, an abortion clinic in Alabama.
STUBBS: What I was really looking for something more sincere. Just for that one incident, for you being apologetic for one part and not the other, is not enough.
MATTINGLY: Rudolph's next stop will be Supermax, the federal high-security prison in Colorado, the prison that once housed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and is now home to Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, two men that, at sentencing, prosecutors compared Rudolph to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric Rudolph is a terrorist. He used violence to intimidate civilians and challenge the government.
MATTINGLY: Rudolph will spend the rest of his life in prison, having made a deal to avoid the death penalty. Many of his victims told the 38-year-old Rudolph they hope he will live and suffer for a long, long time.
ZAHN: That was David Mattingly reporting.
Eric Rudolph baffled investigators for five years, you might remember, hiding out in the North Carolina hills. This April, two years after he was caught, he agreed to plead guilty to all four bombings. And just before that, I spoke with his former sister-in- law, Deborah Rudolph.
ZAHN (voice-over): January 16, 1997, two bombs explode at a women's clinic in an Atlanta suburb, an abortion clinic. Seven people are injured. February 21, 1997, another bombing attack on a gay nightclub in Atlanta injures four people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bomb explosion, the New Women's abortion clinic.
ZAHN: January 29, 1998, a bomb explodes outside a Birmingham, Alabama, abortion clinic. A security guard is killed, a nurse seriously injured. A suspect is spotted. A witness catches his license plate. It is traced back to this man, Eric Robert Rudolph.
While searching Rudolph's trailer home in North Carolina, police make a startling discovery, bomb-making material they say is linked to the 1996 Atlanta Olympic terrorist bombing that killed one person and injured more than 100. But why did Eric Rudolph choose these targets? He's not saying, but someone who knows him well paints a portrait of an extremist filled with hate.
(on camera): Who does Eric Rudolph hate and why?
RUDOLPH: The government would be one.
ZAHN: And why? RUDOLPH: They control everything. And I think that he -- I think he has issues with control.
ZAHN (voice-over): Deborah Rudolph was married to Eric's brother Joel for six years. She watched Eric grow up and saw him harden into a man with very strong opinions.
RUDOLPH: A lot of people say that he's a racist. I wouldn't classify him as a racist, knowing him personally. He's more of a separatist. He believes that every -- each race should be true to themselves. He's not one that likes weak people. He does like strong people. He thinks that the strong are having to defend and support the weak. He believes that the Bible is the history of the white race and that the other races in the Bible, you know are, are just -- he would call them mud people.
ZAHN: Eric was raised by his mother, a former nun who eventually turned the family to darker beliefs.
RUDOLPH: There were always mercenary magazines laying around the house, philosophy books, newspapers, controversial newspapers, like "The Lightning Bolt" or "The Thunderbolt," different kind of papers like that. I would always see them laying around when we would go to the mountains.
ZAHN (on camera): Who bought those?
RUDOLPH: I would assume that it was something that, you know, the family subscribed to.
ZAHN (voice-over): After Eric's father was diagnosed with cancer, the family's attitudes towards the government turned to hate. Mrs. Rudolph wanted to treat her husband with an illegal substance called laetrile.
RUDOLPH: They thought it was a natural way to kill or slow down cancer, made from apricot pits. They were a very self-sufficient family. And I think that that really was the topping on the cake. His mother wanted to treat him with laetrile. They wouldn't allow it. And she's very outspoken about it. And the children of course pick up on that.
ZAHN (voice-over): So, the family hunkered down in the North Carolina mountains, generating their own electricity and filtering their own water. Eric loved to smoke marijuana and watch movies, but not TV. Deborah says he thought that was controlled by Jews.
RUDOLPH: He would actually watch the TV and watch the credits roll. See, see, Steinbergs, this, and that. And he would just go on this. He would become very animated and go off on a tyrant, you know, just a fit about, you know, all these Jews that are in the media and on the news. And they're producers and directors and they run Hollywood and they publish, and so they control the information that we as a people are receiving.
ZAHN: As Eric Rudolph got older, he turned into a man willing to use terror to make his point.
CNN senior investigative reporter Henry Schuster has written a new book about Eric Rudolph.
HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN PRODUCER: Friends who saw Eric up to the time of the Olympic Games said that, increasingly, he would sit in the house with the curtains drawn. He would be ranting against the government. He would be watching TV and going into these terrific rages. He was increasingly paranoid about surveillance from the government.
ZAHN: So, why did Eric Rudolph choose the Olympics and abortion clinics as his targets? Deborah Rudolph thinks she knows.
RUDOLPH: I think it goes back to a race thing, again, back to this idea that the majority of abortions performed in this country are performed on white women. But yet black women, Hispanic women are allowed to have all these kids and the government is going to support them.
So, I think that was the issue with that. The Olympics, I think it is a matter of all of these people coming from all different countries and cultures and colors and races and religions all coming together in one place.
ZAHN: But Deborah Rudolph also says she saw something in her former brother-in-Law that perhaps the world will never see, an intelligence that was wasted.
RUDOLPH: I've always said that he was either going to be famous for something or infamous for something. Eric could have been a great leader of people. He could have been a great leader of men. That's how smart he was.
ZAHN: Well, that's not what happened to him, obviously -- Deborah Rudolph, Eric Rudolph's former sister-in-law.
Coming up next, a deadly mystery on the high seas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Small-time crook willing to kill for easy money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Is this former child actor, who appeared on "The Power Rangers" TV show, also a killer?
And later, have you and your doctor been missing important warning signs of a deadly cancer? Stay tuned. We will have all the latest information for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: If you raised kids in the 1990s, or if you were growing up there, chances are you remember the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers fad. They were superheroes. But if authorities are right, a one-time child actor who appeared on that Power Rangers TV series is anything but a hero. As Dan Simon reports, he's now facing charges that could carry with them the death penalty.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's far from the Hollywood glitz and glamour that Skylar Deleon had once been a part of. The former child actor had landed a small but coveted role on the popular children's hit "The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers." But somewhere along the line, authorities say Deleon morphed into a murderer.
TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DA: Small-time crook willing to kill for easy money.
SIMON: An Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas says that led Deleon to kill in the most violent ways imaginable.
RACKAUCKAS: It's really so awful, it's hard to think about.
SIMON: Last week, the 26-year-old was accused of killing a friend with whom he spent time in jail for burglary. The victim, John Peter Jarvi, had his throat slashed, his body dumped in Mexico. The 2003 case went unsolved for nearly two years. During that time, authorities say Deleon targeted his next victims.
Enter Tom and Jackie Hawks, a couple from the Los Angeles area who would spend months traveling and living full-time on their $400,000 yacht they named Well Deserved.
RYAN HAWKS, MISSING COUPLE'S SON: They were the happiest couple on Earth. They did more as a couple in one year than most couples do in 10.
SIMON: Last year, the Hawks decided to sell their prized possession to buy a house so they could be closer to their grandchild. Skylar Deleon answered their ad in a boating magazine. In December, Deleon, along with two alleged accomplices, boarded the yacht, allegedly pretending to take a test run.
RACKAUCKAS: This is a gruesome murder. And it's cold blooded.
SIMON: During the preliminary hearing, prosecutors say Deleon, who is also an ex-Marine, and the other men overpowered the couple. Blindfolded, with their mouths covered with duct tapes, the Hawks were then allegedly forced to sign over ownership for the yacht and their assets.
(on camera): But the real horror was just beginning. Prosecutors say the Hawks were tied to their boat's 66-pound anchor, and, while still alive, dropped overboard. A few days later, Deleon was seen in Arizona allegedly drying to drain the Hawks' bank accounts.
(voice-over): Deleon's wife Jennifer is charged as an accomplice to the murder, as is a fifth defendant. All five have pleaded not guilty. And as they await trial, the DA tries to make sense of what he calls a senseless act.
RACKAUCKAS: They were just nice people. I mean, this was a couple who had worked all their life towards reaching the American dream. It was about family with them. They didn't do anything to hurt anyone.
ZAHN: That was Dan Simon reporting for us. Joining me now from San Diego is Ryan Hawks. We saw him briefly in Dan Simon's report. He is the son of Thomas and Jackie Hawks, whom Skylar Deleon is accused of killing. Thank you so much for being with us, Ryan.
HAWKS: Thank you.
ZAHN: What else has the prosecution told you about the circumstances surrounding the deaths of your father and your stepmother?
HAWKS: Well, just the fact that it was just a cold-blooded murder. And I knew all the details, especially going in after the prelim. And it was really rough to take. But you know, my reaction, my family's reaction, is the Newport Beach Police and Deputy District Attorney Matt Murphy, and they're doing the best job possible to really make justice of all this.
ZAHN: Why are you so certain that the five people currently being held are responsible for the murder of your father and stepmother?
HAWKS: You asked me why is it so certain?
ZAHN: Why are you so convinced? Because it's largely a circumstantial case at this point, given the fact that, unfortunately, the bodies have not been found.
HAWKS: Well, most importantly, is I know my parents. I know their reactions. I know how they work through life. And you know, his alleged story of what my parents did and what he did with the money, running off to Mexico -- that's -- it's just -- it's ridiculous, the most ridiculous story, especially against my parents. Why? Because I know them.
Two, it's because of all the facts, all the evidence. I mean, not just off this one -- not off this one guy's testimony, but everything leading up to that. And there's physical evidence, and that will come out as well.
ZAHN: What else has the prosecution told you about how these men were able to talk their way onto your father's boat? How were they able to win his trust? Your father was a very smart man. HAWKS: He was very smart. And he's, you know, no stranger around confrontation. And he's a really good judge of character. And so is my stepmother. I think the main person responsible for this is Jennifer Deleon. She showed up at his boat to overwin their confidence and take them out, you know, with a 9-month-old baby, six months pregnant, you know. And it's like anything, it's like if you're going to sell your house, and this young couple, they appeared well, they dressed well, they talked well, they put on a good show. They were seduced by their lies. And unfortunately, my parents paid the ultimate price for it.
ZAHN: And you've had to suffer through a number of memorial services with the uncertainty of not knowing whether their bodies will ever be found. What has that experience been like to live through?
HAWKS: For me, a little bit the worst part of it is over. The worst is just not knowing. The first two months into it, it was -- it was unbearable. I don't know how to express myself or actually define it in words. But as a family, we're moving on, and strong, and confident that the people responsible for this are going to pay.
But I feel like my parents are bound, the 66-pound anchor 3,600 feet below the cold ocean floor. And I don't think that anchor is going to release them until these people pay for what they've done.
ZAHN: Ryan Hawks, thank you...
HAWKS: Thank you, Paula.
ZAHN: ... for sharing your story with us tonight. I know your loss is very fresh. We appreciate it.
HAWKS: Thank you.
ZAHN: Coming up next, we're going to change our focus quite a bit. A very important story that could actually save your life. Are you ignoring symptoms that could warn of cancer?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYDIA ZIPP, OVARIAN CANCER SURVIVOR: I know that women have -- are very intuitive and know a lot about their bodies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Coming up, a woman who thought there was something wrong but couldn't get a doctor to agree, until it was almost too late.
ZAHN: Some startling numbers to talk about tonight. Ovarian cancer kills 16,000 American women a year. The deaths of celebrities like Gilda Radner and Madeline Kahn helped focus attention on the disease. But there still isn't one single test to spot it, and it remains a silent killer to this day. Just look at a new study out today. It says doctors often fail to do the right tests for ovarian cancer, even when women come to them complaining of symptoms, the result many of them want a year before being diagnosed correctly. Here's medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Lydia Zipp complained of stomach troubles, her doctor thought she had the flu and psychological problems.
LYDIA ZIPP, OVARIAN CANCER SURVIVOR: I left with a diagnosis, you know, of flu and allergies, and I got some anti-depressants to go with it.
COHEN: For eight months, eight crucial months, doctor after doctor missed the fact that Lydia had cancer.
Finally, the day before her 34th birthday, Lydia felt so sick she went to the emergency room, and they found it: Stage four ovarian cancer that had spread to her lungs, making a killer cancer even more deadly.
The delay meant she'd lost crucial time.
ZIPP: When ovarian cancer is diagnosed in its earliest stages, the survival rate is 90 percent.
COHEN: But Lydia's chances of survival were only 20 percent. Ovarian cancer kills 16,000 women a year. Women like Madeline Kahn, Loretta Young, Gilda Radner and Jessica Tandy.
A new study published by the American Cancer Society found that all too often, just like in Lydia Zipp's case, women complain of symptoms to their doctor, but aren't diagnosed with ovarian cancer until up to three years later.
The study looked at women with the cancer and found that when women had the symptoms, doctors only ordered the right tests 25 percent of the time.
The symptoms of ovarian cancer include abdominal bloating, indigestion and backaches. If you have these symptoms and feel like something's just not right, the right test to ask for, a pelvic ultrasound and a blood test called CA-125. Now, Lydia runs an ovarian cancer support group, telling women to trust their instincts when they feel sick.
ZIPP: I know that women have -- are very intuitive and know a lot about their bodies. And if they feel like they're not getting the information that they need from their doctor, then we suggest that they get a second opinion or a third opinion.
COHEN: Lydia was one of the lucky ones. She's been in remission for three years -- enough time to spread the word about getting the right diagnosis at the right time.
ZIPP: I feel truly blessed. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Truly blessed, but Elizabeth Cohen, this story is downright terrifying. Can you explain to us tonight how it is a doctor wouldn't order these tests even after a patient has come to them repeatedly and said, I'm feeling A, B, and C?
COHEN: Well, because doctors in some ways still have this old notion that there are no warning signs for ovarian cancer, and that there's just nothing you can do about it. So when women come with these sort of vague symptoms of having a backache or feeling nauseous or feeling indigestion or feeling bloated, they're thinking more that it's kind of a temporary thing, they're just not feeling terribly well. Many doctors were taught in medical school, there's no warning signs for ovarian cancer. And a lot of groups like the one that Lydia is helping to run are saying, no, you need to listen to these signs and you need to order these tests.
ZAHN: So if the symptoms are so varied and they could also point to a lot of other different things women are experiencing, when should we be worried? When should we panic?
COHEN: Doctors say that you should be worried if the symptoms do not go away and if they get worse over time. And that's really key. If all of these problems that you're having are getting worse, getting worse, getting worse, and aren't going away, and especially if they last for longer than two weeks, it is really time to go see your doctor, and to insist that they do the tests if you really feel like something is not right.
What Lydia felt was, yes, I've had stomach aches before, but this is different. I'm trying to take different over-the-counter remedies, and they aren't helping. It feels worse, and it's getting worse over time rather than better.
ZAHN: But the bottom line, Elizabeth, tonight, is we as women have got to know our bodies and not be afraid to go to a doctor and be very bold if we think something's wrong.
COHEN: That's right. And if you don't get the answer that you want, if you say something really feels wrong and your doctor hands you anti-depressants like in Lydia's case, you need to go find another doctor, and you need to talk to that doctor, and you need to say, something is really wrong.
These tests, Paula, are not expensive. And they're done right in the doctor's office. So it's not such a big deal to say to the doctor, please, do these tests.
ZAHN: Hope this information helps. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.
Coming up, we're going to check the headlines in just a moment or two, including a new development in the terrorist attack on two American ships near Jordan. Please stay with us.
ZAHN: At the top of the hour, Pamela Anderson gets personal on "LARRY KING LIVE." Get the latest on her love life, her health, and all those stories in the tabloids.
But first, 10 minutes before the hour, another look at the top stories with Sophia Choi at HEADLINE NEWS.
CHOI: Thanks, Paula. Well, there's a break in the investigation into the rocket attack on the USS Kearsarge and another U.S. warship in Jordan's port of Aqaba last week. Jordanian officials say they've arrested their prime suspect, a Syrian man who they say was part of a terrorist group based in Iraq. No one was hurt on those ships, but one Jordanian soldier was killed and another wounded when one rocket struck a warehouse.
If you are wincing at the gas pump this summer, just think of your local schools, with 25 million American kids getting back to school on buses. School districts are now starting to take cash from the classrooms to pay for all that fuel. The AAA says gas prices hit another record today: A gallon of self-serve regular going for an average of $2.61.
No talks scheduled yet between Northwest Airlines and its striking mechanics. They've been on the picket lines for three days now, trying to fight off $176 million in cuts the airline says it needs to stay out of bankruptcy court. The company is describing operations as normal, but some outside observers say there were lots of flight delays on Northwest over the weekend.
And remember Private 1st Class Jessica Lynch? Her rescue from Iraqi captivity just after the start of the Iraq war turned into a media sensation. Well, today, she started classes at West Virginia University. She has a full scholarship, and the only outward signs of her ordeal are a leg brace and a cane.
Well, the days of the dime novel are long gone, but now, now, there's the 49-cent short story. Amazon.com says it's going to sell previously unpublished short stories online. Amazon says it's already signed up authors like Danielle Steele and Robin Cook.
Also, congratulations, or maybe not, to the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Despite a 10-year effort to clean up its reputation, the school is number one on this year's list of the top party schools in "The Princeton Review." Dead last, or stone cold sober as the review puts it, Brigham Young University -- Paula.
ZAHN: Interesting how those numbers don't shift all that much, Sophia Choi. Thanks.
Coming up, a dog story that's ugly enough to give you nightmares.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Would you pet this dog?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. And I wouldn't let him share my apartment for the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Jeanne Moos is hot on the trail of the world's ugliest dog. Can anyone top this?
ZAHN: So it's out of bounds to make fun of how people look. But what about animals? Well, forgive us just this once, because the dog you're about to see is something remarkable. U-g-l-y. You ain't got no alibi, ugly seems too mild a word. Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Good doggy. Good and ugly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ahh!
MOOS (on camera): Is it the ugliest dog you've ever seen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, disgusting. Looks like they dug him up.
MOOS: He is the three-time undefeated winner of the world's ugliest dog contest at the Sonoma-Marin fair in California.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See? That's the hand that feeds you.
MOOS: The hand that feeds him belongs to Susie Lockheed, who's used to rude questions.
SUSIE LOCKHEED, SAM'S OWNER: They often ask me if he's a burn victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, what happened?
MOOS: Sam is just an accident of breeding. A Chinese crested hairless -- here's what a normal one looks like -- gone astray.
LOCKHEED: I think one of Sam's most attractive features is his hernia lump on his rump. Dangling flesh like a turkey gullet.
MOOS: With this neck, it's no stretch to conjure up ET.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, ET's cuter.
MOOS: Susie calls his choppers Austin Powers teeth. The few hairs Sam has can be rustled by his own breath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foulest, most demon-looking dog I've ever seen, and he's beautiful in every way.
MOOS: Well, no wonder he likes Sam. They share a patch of hair. (on camera): Would you pet this dog?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I and I wouldn't let him share my apartment for the world.
MOOS (voice-over): Susie took Sam in five years ago when he was considered unadoptable. He's now 14 years old.
LOCKHEED: Yeah, he has quite a personality. He can get a little cranky.
MOOS: Sam won the ugliest dog contest back in June, but he became a star when "The Los Angeles Times" published his mug. Now he's got several Web sites. He's inspired other contests to find even uglier dogs. But even a six-legged pooch can't compete with Sam.
At Susie's Web site, samugliestdog.com, you can buy t-shirts and refrigerator magnets. It may keep you from eating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would pet him, I would hold him, I would feed him, I would breed him.
MOOS (on camera): Breed him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, why not?
MOOS: That's going too far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody's got to want an ugly dog.
MOOS (voice-over): Alas, Sam is neutered. As one cyber wit put it, "We do not want another Son of Sam."
LOCKHEED: Sometimes, dogs seem to not quite know if he's canine or not. I mean, they have to have a good sniff, and even then they're -- they're a little afraid of Sam. Be very afraid!
MOOS: Did we mention Sam is blind? This woman was ready to take him home.
(on camera): With his skin like this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, why not?
MOOS: I mean, he has these little bumps on it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He looks like half the people in New York before they have surgery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a frightening little creature. Look at its skin. I mean -- is this really a dog?
(voice-over): No wonder Sam's on the Internet myth debunking site Snopes, status true. The show "Insider" gave Sam a makeover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A moisturizing bath and, of course, a bow. So, did it work? Check out the before and after.
MOOS: Before or after...
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Ahhh!
MOOS: ... Sam's enough to make a kid turn tail and run.
(on camera): You ought to hear the noise he makes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he's no Billie Holiday?
ZAHN: Sam's our man, no matter what you think of how he looks. Jeanne Moos reporting.
That wraps it up for all of us here tonight. Tomorrow night, she was a troubled teenager. He was a married psychologist nearly three times her age. Their love affair would become a marriage. Now, more than 30 years after she began seeing him, she is accused of killing him. A fascinating and disturbing story tomorrow night right here.
But in the meantime, CNN's prime-time continues with "LARRY KING LIVE." His special guest tonight, Pamela Anderson.
Again, thanks so much for being with us tonight. We'll be back, same time, same place tomorrow night. Have a good night.
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