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PAULA ZAHN NOW
Crash Course in Flight Safety; Cloning Fido; Anti-terror Tactics
Aired August 3, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everyone. Glad to have you with us tonight.
We have all asked ourselves, what if the worst happens on an airline flight? Tonight, some answers.
ZAHN (voice-over): The stories behind the miracle. Flight 358 is a scorched ruin. But every passenger is safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brace. Hold tight.
ZAHN: A crash course that could save your life.
The power you never knew they had. The government can secretly search your home or lock you up just for taking pictures. What have we given up in our war on terror? Our "Safe at Home" series.
And, meet Snuppy, the world's first canine clone. How soon will you be able to copy your best friend?
ZAHN: It was just 24 hours ago that I was here telling you about a miracle. Air France Flight 358 was a smoking wreck, and we were just beginning to learn the amazing news that everyone, all 309 passengers and crew, escaped alive. Investigators still don't know what caused the accident, but weather was clearly a factor.
Today, we are hearing terrifying stories of landing in Toronto in a pounding storm, running off the runway, crashing into a ravine and how they all survived.
Here's Jason Carroll.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When passengers on the Air France Airbus 340 see these images of the burned-out jet they escaped, they wonder how they and everyone else on board survived.
JOANN CORDARY-BUNDOCK, FLIGHT 358 SURVIVOR: Letting the gravity of that situation sink in today, I don't think there's a better way to describe it than a miracle flight.
JOHNNY ABENDRABBA, FLIGHT 358 SURVIVOR: If you want to get to religion, it's -- you know, the Virgin Mary was up there with us. Otherwise, we could not have survived this.
CARROLL: Johnny Abendrabba, an economist for a Saudi bank, came back a day early from a business trip to surprise his mother.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I have some souvenirs.
CARROLL: Joann Bundock, a hotel executive, still has her boarding pass and the slippers given to her by Air France after she lost her shoes in the crash. Bundock sat in seat 2-E, Abendrabba in 17-B. Both remember stormy skies and a violent landing.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: When we hit, we hit hard. And just in a couple of seconds, after that first hard hit, it felt like the plane was going down a road filled with potholes that were six to 12 inches deep and just -- literally, just shaking.
ABENDRABBA: While it was sliding, it sort of veered to the left, and we saw one of the engines on the left-hand side catching on fire.
CARROLL: After their plane slid off the runway and down a wooded slop and finally came to a stop, Bundock smelled something that told her to ignore what she heard.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: We heard a flight attendant announced, ladies and gentlemen, everything is OK. Yes, we've stopped now.
Well, yes, we've stopped. However, the -- I could smell some kind of petroleum, gasoline smell at that point in time. Everything is not OK.
CARROLL: Outside, thick smoke covered exits on the left side of the plane, so, Bundock says most passengers escaped using the emergency exit at the front of the plane on the right. Some jumped, because the emergency slide was tangled. Then the passengers walked and ran through a field onto a highway nearby, where passing motorists picked some up.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: The crowd was kind of making its way through the bushes and through the undergrowth. And everybody, where are we going, where are we going? It doesn't matter where we are going. What matters is, we're getting away from the plane.
ABENDRABBA: And the plane is over there. We're walking by towards the -- under the bridge. We get about 100 meters. We're like from here, between here and that dirt road over there. And you hear a loud boom. We look back. The engine has exploded. And there's just smoke coming out of it.
CARROLL (on camera): And let me ask you, as you looked back at the plane, standing out here, and then you look back at the plane, at any point did you think, there were people who did not get out OK?
ABENDRABBA: I hoped they did.
CARROLL (voice-over): Abendrabba credits the passengers and the crew for their actions and says, despite what happened, he will board a plane again in a few weeks.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I grew up on a farm, and we rode horses as kids. And the word always was, if you fall off, you are going to get right back on.
CARROLL: She'll be doing just that. Her next plane trip, to Seoul, South Korea, is two weeks away.
ZAHN: And that was Jason Carroll reporting for us.
Joining me now from Toronto is one of the survivors you just saw, Joann Cordary-Bundock.
Good of you to join us. Welcome.
You said at the top of Jason's piece that it was a miracle everybody on board survived. Was there a point where you thought you might die?
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I really did not let that come into my mind at all.
When we were on the plane, there were some very, definitely very scary moments. But I was living in that moment and moment to moment to moment. And I did not let the possibility that I was going to die enter my brain at any time during it.
ZAHN: When were you the most frightened?
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I think the most frightened time came when we were -- had just touched down, and we hit down very, very hard when we hit the first time.
And then, you would sometimes experience a lot of kind of bumpy landings. But this was not a bumpy landing. This was an absolute landing that felt like we were going down a road filled with potholes at 150 miles an hour. And instead of it getting less and less intense as the plane went forward, it got more intense and more agitated. And I think I was holding on for dear life at that point, wondering, you know, when is this going to stop? And when are -- when are we going to get out?
So, I think that that time was the scariest time. When we stopped, then I could smell some type of a gasoline smell. And I knew we had to get out of that plane, because that's not a normal smell at that time.
ZAHN: One our your fellow survivors mentioned that he actually saw one of the engines engulfed in flames long before the jet ever stopped. Did you see that or you just smelled fumes? CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I was in the front of the plane. I was in row number two, so I was too far in front to be able to see the flames, until the time that the exit doors opened on both the left and right side of the plane, right behind the cockpit.
And when the left-hand exit doer opened and the slide deployed, I could see tons of black, thick smoke billowing in front of that exit door, and knew, of course, where there's smoke, there has to be fire.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: And chose to go out that right-hand door, where the slide was not deployed correctly. It was kind of twisted up at the bottom, but that was such -- much -- a better choice.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: Because I did have a choice at that time.
ZAHN: Joann, I have heard other survivors say, then, that when they used the same exit you did, they ended up jumping on top of other people who proceeded them out of that opening, that, at points, you had five people piled up on top of each other.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: I can understand how that could happen.
I was one of the maybe first five or six or seven out that particular door. Because the evacuation ramp was twisted on the end, you really had to, like, do a man overboard, like you were bailing out of a rubber boat, because you couldn't go to the bottom of that exit ramp, or you would get twisted in that material and all that mess.
So, you really had to kind of jump over to the side. And when I jumped over, there were probably -- it was maybe, five, six seven feet above the ground at that point in time.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: There was a gentleman right in front of me trying to get himself over that ramp as well. So, I could understand how people could maybe fall in that process and other people jump on top of them, unfortunately.
ZAHN: And, Joann, briefly, in closing, I know you have a very long trip planned, and you have got to get on another plane in about two weeks. Are you afraid to do that?
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: Am I afraid? Well, yes. I'm afraid. But it's my job. I have to travel for my work. And that's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to be going to South Korea in a couple of weeks. And will I think about it? Will I think about this day? I will probably think about this day forever. But it's not going to stop me from doing what I'm supposed to do and continuing on with my job. I -- that's something I have to do. ZAHN: Please travel safely. Joann Cordary-Bundock, thanks for sharing your story with us tonight.
CORDARY-BUNDOCK: Thank you.
ZAHN: And still ahead tonight, do you know how much our own government can spy on us? It's more than you think, and some people are absolutely outraged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems, as we try to fight terrorism, that that very same Constitution they're supposed to be protecting is under attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And back to what we all witnessed in Toronto yesterday, lessons learned and some instruction that might save lives of those of us who have to get on planes a lot.
Please stay with us for some information that could save your life.
ZAHN: So, when you get ready to take off in on a plane and the flight attendants are going through the safety routine, do you pay any attention at all? Well, the survival stories from Flight 358 are a very powerful reminder of why you should.
If you need more reason, please watch this report from Deborah Feyerick, who took part in a crash survival class today. What you're about to see could save your life.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The simulation, soon the flight starts, something goes wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The captain has just informed me that we have an engine fire and it's on this side of the aircraft. We are going to return back to the field and land and evacuate through the main cabin door once we have come to a complete stop.
FEYERICK: Everyone is quiet, as the flight attendant tells us what is happening and what we need to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put your seat belts on nice and tight, very, very snug against your hips. If you have anything sharp on, like your eyeglasses, I need you to put those eyeglasses down in your sock.
BLAIN STANLEY, EMERGENCY PROCEDURES TRAINER: Pandemonium and chaos and mayhem is not the norm, per se. People look for direction. They get quiet. They look at the crew members, and they want to be led.
FEYERICK: The pilot keeps talking to the flight attendant. The flight attendant keeps talking to us. Evacuation expert Blain Stanley, who is running the drill, says communication is critical.
STANLEY: Without the communication, nobody has a plan to follow. You all need to be reading off the exact same sheet of music in order to be able to be successful in evacuating.
FEYERICK: Tracy Gross (ph), our flight attendant, shows me how to open the emergency exit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you repeat that back to me?
FEYERICK (on camera): I remove the cushions. I take the panel off. Then I pull the handle and do leg, body leg.
(voice-over): It's important that all bags be tucked away lightly.
STANLEY: That laptop bag, weighing in at 8, 10, 12 pounds, in a crash, where you are pulling nine, 10, 12, 14 G's, turns into a gigantic catapult that will take your head off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You two, all the way over. Grab your arms on the backside of your leg. Do it quick. Yours, feet flat on the floor, head all the way back, arms underneath your -- your thighs.
FEYERICK: We get ready for impact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Everybody brace. Brace. Hold tight.
FEYERICK: The next drill deals with smoke. That and fire are the two things many pilots and crew members fear most.
STANLEY: Most people who are alive when the airplane comes to a stop, but end up dead, die because of smoke inhalation. They are consumed by the smoke and fire because the evacuation does not proceed rapidly enough.
FEYERICK: Smokes fills our cabin top to bottom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the meantime, I want everybody to bring your shirt up over your nose and mouth and breathe through that.
FEYERICK: Because of cabin pressure and air flow, there's no safety zone. You can crouch, but don't crawl. Crouching will get you away from the heat of the fire. Crawling will do no good.
STANLEY: Getting really low in an aircraft to evacuate simply makes it so people start to trample over you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does everybody see this exit? OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know in relationship to where you are right now to where is exit is. This is the one we will be using.
FEYERICK: It is important to know exactly where the closest exit is. The smoke is blinding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Feel that? Just feel it so you know where it is and what it feels like in your hand. You got that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the handles on each side of the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
FEYERICK: What you wear when flying is important. Cotton is better than polyester, since synthetics burn quickly and can melt on your skin. Also, shoes that tie will stay on your feet. On commercial planes equipped with emergency chutes, you can't just sit and slide. You have to run and jump, says flight attendant Denese Goubin.
DENESE GOUBIN, FLIGHT ATTENDANT: It's a time factor. You have to be able to exit an aircraft within 90 seconds. And it requires everybody to jump and run away from the aircraft.
FEYERICK: And what if the plane rolls over?
STANLEY: You have got to get out of your seat any way you can. Release the seat belt. You are going to fall to the floor or the ceiling, whatever the case may be. And then move towards what is obviously an exit, be it a placarded exit or a big hole in the side of the fuselage.
FEYERICK: With a water landing, it's important not to inflate your vest until after you are out of the aircraft.
STANLEY: And once you get that vest on and you inflate fully, it blows up to about twice your normal body size up front. Now, as you move towards the exit, if the exit is too small, you can't fit through.
FEYERICK: As for us, on our smoky plane:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten seconds. Ten seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, Brace. Brace. Hold tight.
FEYERICK: As our plane crashes, we climb out the window, hearts racing, even though it is just a drill.
(on camera): It is very scary. And even on the bumpy rides, when you are coming down, it is jiggling so much, that, that the fear mechanism just kicks in and so, your heart just begins racing, because you don't know which way you are going to get out or which way you are going to go.
And it's interesting. I thought I would be much more in control of what direction I was going to be going in. But your mind almost clears as you are coming down to see how exactly it is you're going to land and hopefully make it out.
(voice-over): Once you do land, the control comes back. You run from the aircraft to someplace safe, where you can be grateful at how lucky you are.
ZAHN: Deborah Feyerick with some important lessons for anyone who flies.
And there is something else we were very worried about at this time last night, what we thought would be a high-risk repair job for the space shuttle astronauts. Well, tonight, we are very happy to report that everything went even better than NASA had hoped.
John Zarrella shows us exactly what happened.
STEVE ROBINSON, ASTRONAUT: OK.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the end, the space walk was a cakewalk.
ROBINSON: And I'm pulling. It's coming out very easily. Beautiful. Very nice. OK. I'll back away.
ZARRELLA: Astronaut Steve Robinson was prepared to move two pieces of gap filler from the shuttle's belly with forceps and even an improvised hacksaw if necessary. Turns out he was able to do it by hand.
ROBINSON: OK. That came out very easily. Probably even less force. It looks like this big patient is cured.
ZARRELLA: It's the first time NASA has tried to repair the exterior of a shuttle in flight, the need for that capability gravely learned from the Columbia disaster.
The fear was that the exposed filler create dangerous hot spots as Discovery reentered Earth's atmosphere.
With his helmet-mounted camera beaming images never seen before, Robinson, perched on the space station's robotic arm, was maneuvered gingerly along the orbiter's fragile belly. NASA had allowed seven hours for the operation, but removing the filler went much quicker than expected, and the entire space walk lasted six hours. NASA officials were more than pleased.
PAUL HILL, FLIGHT DIRECTOR: I was absolutely relieved, and I think you could probably hear the sigh of relief throughout the building over there. And when he pulled the second one out, it was a huge relief and it definitely felt like the rest is downhill from here.
ZARRELLA: Now attention turns to another potential problem: a damaged thermal blanket under one of the cockpit windows. There's concern it could tear away and strike the ship on reentry. Is it worth another space walk to fix? That's the next big decision NASA is facing.
HILL: If we decide to do something like that, we could make a bad situation worse. So we have to think real hard about sending somebody out there and taking that risk.
ZAHN: John Zarrella reporting from the Johnson Space Center Texas.
Right now, just about 20 minutes past the hour. And some of you know what that means. Time to check in with Erica Hill at Headline News to update the rest of the day's top stories.
ZAHN: I don't know. Sometimes, we fudge it. Sometimes, you are a little later than that.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know. We like to keep people guessing.
HILL: There you go.
HILL: We actually start off today in Iraq, where it was, unfortunately, a very deadly day for U.S. force, 14 Marines and one interpreter killed near the city of Haditha when a roadside bomb hit their armored vehicle.
Now, the attack came just two days after six Marines were killed in a firefight near the same city. All of the 20 slain Marines were from the same Ohio-based battalion.
In Istanbul, a couple leaving a wedding party died and several others were injured when a bomb in a trash bin exploded. Yesterday, there were similar explosions in another city. No one has claimed responsibility.
And, unbelievably, another tragedy to report tonight for the Boy Scouts. Today, officials said one Scout was killed, three hurt, on Tuesday night when lightning struck Camp Steiner in Utah. That's about 60 miles east of Salt Lake City. You may recall, last week, lightning killed an assistant Scout master and a Scout in California. And four Scout leaders were electrocuted at the National Jamboree in Virginia. And there is a new tropical storm in the Caribbean. Meet Harvey, the eighth storm of the season. It is about 200 miles southwest of Bermuda now. Warnings have been issued for that island. Forecasters say Harvey isn't expected to hit the USA mainland.
And, Paula, that is the latest from headlines at almost 21 past the hour.
ZAHN: Thanks, Erica. I only have one thing to say to Harvey.
HILL: Go away?
ZAHN: Go away. Exactly.
ZAHN: Thanks. See you in a little bit.
Did you know the government can detain you for taking a picture of a train? This man found out the hard way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, well, look, that directly contravenes the protections of the First Amendment. And he said, these new laws supersede the First Amendment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So, how much power do our anti-terrorism laws give the police? You may be shocked, but you might also be comforted.
ZAHN: We are learning more tonight about the deadly bombings in London on July 7. And the details are coming from the New York City Police Department as well.
The bombers used mundane ingredients like hair bleach to make the bombs. They stored them in a fancy commercial refrigerator that was out of place in their dingy apartment. They probably used cell phones to set off the bombs. All this came out as New York City Police briefed city business leaders here today as part of a program to get businesses to be more vigilant.
Now on to our own security watch series "Safe at Home." I want to be secure from terrorists. Don't we all? But when we hear that the government can come into our homes without telling us and search through our stuff, well, that might make you stop and think. It turns out, there are a lot of surprising powers the federal government has as a result of 9/11, as we hear from justice correspondent Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Paul Burgess and Randy Olson are train enthusiasts and amateur photographers. So it's no surprise that one of their favorite pastimes is taking pictures of trains.
PAUL BURGESS, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: That was Hiawatha service from Milwaukee.
ARENA: Which is exactly what they were doing one day about seven months ago on this very platform in suburban Chicago when they were confronted and detained by police, their car searched and their names and information checked against terrorist databases.
BURGESS: There was a crowd of people standing here staring at us. We're up against a police car. We're not handcuffed. There's two armed officers standing in front of us telling us that we could be placed in federal detention.
ARENA: While it usually doesn't go this far, police officers do have the right to question you and will if you are taking pictures of transportation systems or bridges or other infrastructure. In fact, as CNN was shooting video for this story, our cameraman was stopped and questioned by authorities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just trying to find out who you were with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you who we're with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, OK.
ARENA: As attacks in both London and Madrid have made obvious, trains and subways are attractive targets for terrorists, and terrorists often conduct early surveillance by taking photos.
Burgess and Olson understand that concern, but don't think stopping photographers will help.
RANDY OLSON, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: Examine the passengers' baggages. Two rail fans taking pictures on a platform, no. Guys getting on, looking suspicious with, you know, oversized suitcases, maybe you should stop and look at them, you know?
ARENA: Photography isn't the only hobby that could result in a confrontation with law enforcement. Ken Kurtis owns a dive shop in Los Angeles. He received a subpoena from the government in 2002 asking for customer information going back three years.
KEN KURTIS, DIVE SHOP OWNER: It was incredibly broad. It was incredibly unfocused, and, from that standpoint, in my opinion, going to be incredibly unproductive.
ARENA: Intelligence at the time suggested terrorists might be planning an underwater attack. And agents have the right to request business records while conducting terrorism investigations. Kurtis refused to comply with the subpoena and filed suit. And officials voluntarily backed off. But many other dive businesses did provide information, deciding security trumped their customers' privacy.
Most Americans are intimately aware of post-9/11 restrictions when they travel on airplanes, for example, taking off your shoes, going through metal detectors, showing your I.D. But most are probably not as familiar with new aggressive laws and practices that law enforcement and the federal government are now using in the war on terror.
Did you know, for example, that someone accused of plotting a terrorist attack can be held indefinitely if the president says so? The president, as commander in chief, can detain people allegedly fighting for the enemy.
(on camera): Jose Padilla got off a plane here, at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. His feet barely touched the ground before he was taken into custody, the attorney general alleging that he was involved in a plot to set off a dirty bomb in the United States. But Padilla was never charged. Instead, he was declared an enemy combatant and has been in military custody for more than three years. Padilla is a U.S. citizen.
(voice-over): Most enemy combatants are held overseas and are not U.S. citizens. The government argues Padilla's capture in the United States and subsequent detention are legal because al Qaeda made the U.S. a battlefield when it attacked New York and Washington on 9/11. Padilla's lawyers filed suit, arguing the government should charge him and present its evidence in a court of law.
DONNA NEWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOSE PADILLA: What the government has done is not only tried Mr. Padilla in the media before the public, they have charged him and been the jury. How convenient, except that it is such a violation of our Constitution that it is egregious.
ARENA: The FBI's new mandate to prevent terror attacks has raised other constitutional questions.
Did you know, for example, that your home could be search without you ever knowing if the government thinks you are a national security risk? Well, federal agents thought Brandon Mayfield was. Armed with a court order, they took 10 DNA samples, 335 digital photographs, searched his computer hard drives and wiretapped his home.
Mayfield had no idea until almost a year later. At the time, authorities thought Mayfield's fingerprints matched those found near the scene of the Madrid bombings last year, a good enough reason for a judge to sanction the government's actions. Later, the FBI admitted the prints did not match. And Mayfield is now suing.
GERRY SPENCE, BRANDON MAYFIELD'S ATTORNEY: You don't want to have people walking into your house and violating your Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable searches. That's what it's about. ARENA: Did you know that FBI agents have the authority to not only enter your home, but can enter your church, synagogue, mosque, or political meeting to gather information? Well, they can. Because, John Ashcroft relaxed FBI guidelines after 9/11. But many agents say they won't, without a good reason.
KEVIN PERKINS, BALTIMORE FBI OFFICE DIR: I think what the public needs to know that any type of investigative technique along those lines, there is significant oversight by either -- by a judicial body, perhaps by Congress, perhaps by the inspector general's office.
ARENA: Kevin Perkins runs the FBI's Baltimore Field Office. With a major port and its proximity to the nation's capital, he says he doesn't have the resources or the desire to spy on law-abiding citizens.
PERKINS: We have to have a real specific reason why we do things we do.
ARENA: Case in point, under the Patriot Act, the government has the power, with a court order, to demand a library hand over a list of books you've borrowed, or Web sites you visited on computers there. Well so far, it's a power officials say they have not used.
Just as the public is getting used to the new powers, Congress is considering even more changes such as giving the FBI the ability to get records from hotels, schools and other businesses in terror investigations without even going before a judge and broader authority to examine the outside of letters or packages mailed to people connected to terror investigations. It's all supposed to make us safer.
PERKINS: I have to know that stopping a terrorist attack is my number one goal. But at the same time, protecting people and their civil rights is very important to me.
ARENA: Still, some, like photographer Paul Burgess are concerned about what the future may hold.
BURGESS: It's the old argument of the slippery slope. And I know people tend to laugh things off, and say, well, that can never happen. But you know, if you look at the history of police states, most of them are incrementalists.
ARENA: Burgess says ultimately Americans have to speak up like he did if they think the government is going too far.
ZAHN: And that was Kelli Arena.
So, do you think the government is going too far? Well, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll a lot of you do. When we asked if the government should be allowed to indefinitely hold U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism, three-quarters of you said no. But that's exactly what happened to suspected dirty bomber Jose Padilla. When we asked if it should be easier for authorities to read your mail or tap your phone without your knowledge, almost three-quarters of you said no to that, too.
And then, should the government be able to find out what books you checked out from the library? 60 percent oppose that. But it's a power that law enforcement already has.
Now, 33 minutes past the hour, we're going to take a short break. Next, the poignant end to a story we have followed for some time. A mother gives birth to a daughter she'll never know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're, you know, thrilled by the baby, but this is -- this is a very difficult day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Can faith and science work together? Watch our next story and see.
ZAHN: In Virginia today, an unusual and moving demonstration of the cycle of life and death, a family is celebrating a birth and mourning a death. Today, doctors removed life support from a woman who had been declared brain dead in May because of a stroke brought on by cancer. She was 15 weeks pregnant at the time. And her family decided to keep the body alive to save her baby. Well, doctors delivered the baby yesterday. And here's CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 26- year-old Susan was kept alive just long enough to produce a miracle: a baby. Small, to be sure, just one pound, thirteen ounces, but so far, healthy.
DR. DONNA TILDEN-ARCHER, VIRGINIA HOSPITAL CENTER: At the moment she was born, she was very vigorous, and crying, and, in very good condition for a baby of her gestational age.
GUPTA: Still, it doesn't get any harder than this.
JUSTIN TORRES, FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: We are overjoyed at the birth of baby Susan, and deeply grieved at the loss of her mother.
GUPTA: It wasn't supposed to be this way. At age 17, Susan had a small dot, a melanoma it turned out, on her arm. She had it removed, but it returned. It spread to her brain, bled. And put her into an irreversible coma. And she was pregnant.
JASON TORRES, FATHER: While we were there, the doctors came in and told me that she had no brain function at that time. And that normally they would have done nothing at that point and just -- you know, let her slip away.
GUPTA: He decided to save his child's life. So, as the cancer grew throughout his wife's body, a baby grew as well.
J. TORRES: If you have a chance to save your child's life, you're going to do it. And, I know for a fact that Susan would do whatever she need to do just to give her child the chance.
GUPTA: Doctors wanted to keep Susan Torres on life support until the baby reached 32 weeks. But she was delivered by cesarean four weeks earlier when her mother's condition deteriorated.
So at 28 weeks, and just under two pounds, the numbers are very much on baby Susan's side. She has a better than 80 percent chance of survival, although she does have a higher likelihood of cerebral palsy, problems with vision and developmental delay.
TILDEN-ARCHER: As far as long-term outcome, we really have to monitor from day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, and just see how -- what happens.
GUPTA: But for today, Jason says good-bye to Susan, his wife, while he welcomes Susan, his daughter.
ZAHN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta reporting. If all goes well, baby Susan will go home in three months.
Coming up, a puppy that's like no other dog, because it's exactly like another dog. Is this progress?
And a little bit later on, why a ten day suspension may be the least of baseball star Rafael Palmeiro's problems.
ZAHN: Well, if there ever was a perfect pet in the movies and TV at least, Lassie was it. Well, what if you could actually clone one just like Lassie? Well, today, we learned that's possible. South Korean scientists have succeed in cloning a dog for the first time ever. Here's Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's probably safe to say that a dog has never been born with this much fanfare, until SNUPy, the puppy. SNUPy is the world's first cloned dog. A genetic replica of this one.
DR. GERALD SCHATTEN, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: SNUPy is exactly 100 days old today. To the outside world, he seems perfectly fine.
COHEN: Dr. Gerald Schatten advises the team that cloned the dog.
SCHATTEN: No one had made a test-tube dog before and professor Wong (ph) basically set up a fertility clinic for dogs.
COHEN: It took a 123 ovulating dogs producing more than 1,000 embryos before SNUPy the Afghan Hound was born. With cloned sheep, pigs, rabbits and cats, does the world really need a cloned dog?
DR. HWANG WOO SUK, STEM CELL SCIENTIST: If we develop and apply to these cloned dogs, we can find some very important data using some drugs or stem cells in the future.
COHEN: Dogs, it turns out, are very close to humans. Check out the hair. And more importantly, they get diseases that also afflict humans like diabetes and cancer.
SCHATTEN: Dogs get about 65 of the same type of infections as we humans do. The possibility of helping to treat our dogs in a veterinary clinic may be the right thing to do for dogs.
COHEN: And studying as sleuth of identical dogs or at least, identical dog embryos could lead to discoveries faster than random studying random dogs. So, what if you want to clone your special pup or perhaps make an army of little champions?
SCHATTEN: Reproductive cloning is unsafe and it's inefficient. Look, it took 1,095 embryos to make this one puppy. There's no reason to try to clone any member of our family. Our pets included.
COHEN: There are worries that some rogue scientists might take the dog information and clone people. Such human concerns are no matter for SNUPy, named for the university that bore him: S for Seoul. N for national. Upy for well, puppy.
HWANG WOO SUK: The first cloned dog at Seoul National University.
COHEN: For now, the newest star of the cloning world is basking in the spotlight.
ZAHN: Yes, they may be basking in the spotlight, all right, Elizabeth Cohen, but the math doesn't make a whole lot of sense here. You -- we just heard them confirm, it took 1095 embryo to make this dog. That doesn't sound to me like cloning our favorite pet is in any -- anywhere in the near distant future.
COHEN: That's right. Absolutely, Paula. I mean, this is about as inefficient as you can get. You start out with 1095 embryos and out of those, they only got three pregnancies. One end up in a miscarriage. One end up in a live birth, but a dog that died at 22 days old. And then, the last one, of course, is SNUPy. But that is -- those are not very good odds and that's why this group is saying, "forget it. You can pay us as much money as you want. We are not going to clone your dog."
ZAHN: Well -- but, people would also -- if this does become possible, have to be aware of some of the things you were talking about in this piece of complications, in terms of diabetes and cancer.
COHEN: That's right. Cloned animals have had a lot of health problems, Paula. For example, cloned animals have often been obese or they have lung problems or they are immune problems. Because -- I mean, really it's -- you don't really know what you're getting. This technology is so new. It's so different, of course, from the way that animals are usually conceived. And so, when people start talking about cloning humans, the first thing that you have think of is, you know, "wait a minute. Look what happens with animals. They have all these problems." You would never want to do that in a human being.
ZAHN: But does this technology that was confirmed today, speed up that process of potentially cloning a human being, whether we like it or not?
COHEN: You know, it might by a small amount. I mean, they use the same technology that they use to get Dolly the sheep, that they use to clone goats and other mammals.
So, this is really the same technology, just more proof of the principle that it actually works. And so, would it work in humans? Well, maybe it would. There's only one group that admits to even trying to even trying to clone human beings. In fact, they claim they have cloned human beings, but most respectable scientists would say that they're just not telling the truth and that they really haven't done that. Respectable scientists are not trying to clone human beings.
ZAHN: Fascinating story, Elizabeth Cohen. For the record, I'm happy with my Nigel -- my one and only Nigel.
COHEN: There'll never be another, right?.
ZAHN: Exactly. That's the way we all feel at our house hold. See you in a little bit, Elizabeth.
Now, see if you can actually tell the difference between these next two sentences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAPHAEL PALMEIRO, PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER: I have never used steroids. Period.
PALMEIRO: I have never intentionally used steroids. Never, ever. Period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So, which is it and what happened unintentionally? Jeanne Moos lets some baseball fans go to bat on that one.
ZAHN: At 10 minutes before the hour, time to check in with Erica Hill at Headline News to update the top stories -- Erica. HILL: Thanks, Paula.
14 more U.S. marines died in a single bombing in Iraq today, but the president says the increasingly deadly attacks will not force America into a retreat.
Speaking to business leaders in Dallas today, he also said the economy is doing well. It would be even better if not for the recession after the 9/11 attacks.
Meantime, London police have now charged the first suspects in the failed bombings of July 21. One person was injured by the duds. Scotland Yard says 14 other suspects are still in custody in the July attacks. And more are being sought.
In Miami, a 67-year-old man who spent 26 years behind bars was free after DNA tests showed he did not commit a rap in the 1970's. Eight victims of assault have identified Luis Diaz as their attacker. Some legal experts say his case is a cautionary tale about the reliability of eyewitness in criminal trials.
And Martha Stewart's electronic bracelet will stay on now, at least until the end of August. Her lawyer confirms, Stewart's been slapped with additional home confinement after reports that she wandered off her estate for a yoga class.
And a really big shoe on Wall Street today, Adidas says it is buying Reebok for $3.8 billion. Reebok stock surged a whopping 30 percent.
And while we are on the sports kick. Let's check in now for some of the best of CNN's 25 years as Larry Smith counts down the most intriguing sports personalities.
LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The top searchers of CNN's first 25 years.
We ask the editors at Sports Illustrated magazine to come up with a list.
At No. 15, the two-sport master nicknamed Prime Time. Deon Sanders electrified football and baseball fans.
At No. 14, Sugar Ray Leonard was dubbed the best fighter of the '80s.
At No. 13, the intimidator Dale Earnhardt raced fearlessly until his death at the 2001 Daytona 500
ROY JOHNSON, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Dale Earnhardt, in the parlance of today's kids, kept it real. And he was real for NASCAR. And he was real up until the day he died.
SMITH: At No. 12, Serena Williams made strength stylish on the court.
Fast and furious at No. 11. The NBA's Allen Iverson didn't play the corporate game.
Stay tuned as we count down to No. 1.
HILL: And Paula, that's going to do it for us at Headline News. We'll turn it back to you in New York.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Erica, appreciate it.
Baseball star Rafael Palmeiro says he didn't intentionally take steroids. What do fans think?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have all this trainers and stuff that he has, and I know what I'm taking and I'm stupider than he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Ouch, the fans are getting restless. Jeanne Moos lets some more of them take a swing when we come back. We'll be right back.
ZAHN: Today, the leader of the House Government Reform Committee said Congress will investigate whether baseball star Rafael Palmeiro committed perjury during his testimony last March. That's when Palmeiro declared he had never even used steroids.
Well, this week, the Baltimore slugger was suspended for ten days because he actually tested positive for using steroids. As Jeanne Moos discovered, baseball fans aren't amused.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you hear a guy say this...
RAFAEL PALMEIRO, BALTIMORE ORIOLES: I have never used steroids. Period.
MOOS: And then less than five months later...
PALMEIRO: I have never intentionally used steroids. Never, ever. Period.
MOOS: There is one word that sticks out like it's on steroids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Intentionally? How do you not take steroids intentionally?
MOOS (on camera): But he says he never intentionally took steroids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, come on, please.
MOOS (voice-over): When Baltimore Orioles first baseman Rafael Palmeiro tested positive for steroids, well, it hit some folks invoking a certain some lunch meat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that's a crock of bologna.
MOOS: Or even worse than bologna.
(on camera): He said he never intentionally used steroids now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
MOOS: The other performance enhancing drug he's known for was Viagra. He used to advertise it.
PALMEIRO: My doctor says it's right for me.
JAY LENO, THE TONIGHT SHOW: So, he's on steroids and Viagra. You know what that means? He doesn't even need a bat anymore. He doesn't even need the bat.
MOOS: One sports columnist asked, what's next, the Twinkie defense?
Though that wasn't the only tongue in cheek theory about how someone could unintentionally take steroids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe someone sneaked in his kitchen and put it in his Cheerios.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I believe him.
MOOS (on camera): Do you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sure.
MOOS: What are you thinking?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I didn't intentionally have chocolate chip cookies for breakfast this morning and I'm a diabetic.
MOOS: Can you figure out a way that you can unintentionally take them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE; He could have fallen on Mark McGuire's needle when they were working out together in the gym.
MOOS (voice-over): Palmeiro implies he might have taken steroids by taking legal supplements that must have been contaminated or mislabeled.
JIM BEATTIE, EXEC VP BALTIMORE ORIOLES: What it says is in there. It's not in there. And some of the things that doesn't say are in there, are in there.
MOOS: But the "New York Times," quote an anonymous baseball source says the steroid found in Palmeiro's test isn't the type you find in supplements.
There is one other matter -- the finger point.
PALMEIRIO: I have never used steroids. Period.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It didn't seem to hurt Bill Clinton to shake that finger.
WILLIAM CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
MOOS: Body language experts say liars often make exaggerated use of over emphatic signals of frankness. And the author of the "Science of Influence" thinks Palmeiro's finger pointing before Congress seemed rehearsed. Both Palmeiro and Bill Clinton are lefties.
Author Kevin Hogan says when a lefty uses his right hand to point while denying, it almost guarantees he's lying. Lefty Palmeiro used his left.
But when it comes to steroid use, it depends on what your definition of intentional is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should try steroids, hey Herman?
MOOS: You look like you do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, thanks. It's pizza. And I'll tell Congress that. Thank you.
ZAHN: Yeah. We don't know how to mince words here, do we? Jeanne Moos reporting for us tonight. Jay Leno with the best line of all.
Thanks so much for being with us tonight. We'll be back, same time, same place tomorrow night. Have a great night. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
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