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Olympic Park Bomber Set to Plead Guilty; High Price of Free Speech

Aired April 11, 2005 - 20:00   ET


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.
Sorrow for the pope turns to protests aimed right at the Vatican.


ZAHN (voice-over): He allowed child molesters to prey on unsuspecting churchgoers. So, why is the Vatican giving Cardinal Bernard Law a place of honor?

MARY GRANT, SNAP: It's just like rubbing salt into the wounds of the victims and family members.

ZAHN: At a time of mourning, a painful scandal comes back to haunt the Catholic Church.

And he pushes a lot of people's buttons.

BRENT BOZELL III, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: He has scraped the bottom of the barrel. And he just kind of sits there.

ZAHN: And he pushes all of the boundaries.

HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Burping and farting still turn me on. I still think it is funny.

ZAHN: Tonight, Howard Stern and the high price of free speech.


ZAHN: We begin tonight with the last thing that the Catholic Church wants to confront so soon after the pope's death, sexual abuse by priests.

At St. Peter's Basilica, Cardinal Bernard Law today helped lead one of the nine traditional masses of mourning for the pope. It was just too much for some abuse victims, who see Law as the poster child for church apathy over the scandal. Law, who was Boston's cardinal, resigned in disgrace three years ago and the pope then transferred him to a ceremonial position in the Vatican. Salt in the wound, indeed, for many victims who can't escape some very painful memories.

Drew Griffin has this portrait of one man in particular.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He leads a life mostly alone, walking the streets and parks of London, far from his sunny childhood in Southern California.

JOHN GRIMLY, SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM: I'm a shell of what I could have been. I'm not -- I'm not a properly formed adult.

GRIFFIN: On paper, John Grimly (ph) should by all accounts consider himself a success, a college and Law school graduate working in international business. He once helped write speeches for the first President Bush. But there is a darker tale here. John Grimly is a sexual abuse survivor. And the man he says molested him was the one man who at the time he says he trusted the most.

GRIMLY: I couldn't understand why this priest was wanting me to do things which all my years of Catholic education taught me were wrong.

GRIFFIN: The journey that landed this would-be Catholic priest in a single-room apartment in London began on a sunny day driving down the Ventura freeway outside Los Angeles. John Grimly was a Catholic high school freshman, interested in learning about a future in the church. The field trip that day would take him to St. John's Seminary in Camarillo, California. And the man escorting him was a Catholic priest named Michael Harris.

GRIMLY: And he said, I want you to come and talk to me about your interest in the priesthood.

GRIFFIN: Father Michael Harris suddenly became very interested in Grimly's future. And guiding him into the priesthood, according to Grimly, meant helping him overcome the stigma of celibacy. In the coming weeks, Harris would invite Grimly to play racquetball to relieve frustration, then invite him to his home to learn about sex.

GRIMLY: And we went back to his place and he instructed me, rather tersely, to get on his bed. And he took off the clothes he had been wearing at the gym. And he got into the shower. He told me to get into the shower. And he wasn't going to take no for an answer this time.

GRIFFIN: What a young John Grimly didn't know that day was, Father Michael Harris would become one of Southern California's most infamous accused pedophiles. He also didn't know that, along with Harris, the Catholic seminary he had visited had graduated almost all of the accused pedophiles.

RICHARD SIPE, FORMER PRIEST: I've been involved in about 200 cases of sexual abuse of minors by priests in this country. And of those cases, St. John's comes up over and over and over again.

GRIFFIN: Richard Sipe, former priest and now expert on clergy sexual abuse in the United States, says this seminary's alumni roll reads like a who's who of accused Catholic priests.

Michael Baker, who graduated from St. John's in 1974, is reported by the archdiocese to have abused as many as 23. Patrick Ziemann, a bishop who had to resign over allegations of sexual abuse, graduated in 1967. Neither Ziemann, nor Baker would comment to CNN. And Michael Wempe, soon to be tried for alleged sexual abuse of a minor, which he says didn't happen, graduated from St. John's in 1966.

A review of the Los Angeles Archdiocese's own report on sex abuse by priests reveals 18 percent of St. John's graduates between 1962 and 1976 went on to be accused of abuse. Of the graduating class of 1972, the rate of those accused would reach one-third. It is the class that graduated Father Michael Harris. Harris has always maintained his innocence. But, according to Los Angeles Archdiocese, along with John Grimly, 11 other boys have told similar tales of molestation. The church has settled multimillion dollar lawsuits against his accusers and Harris is no longer an active priest.

Former priest Richard Sipe says what the church has not yet done is address the issue of what has been going on inside seminaries like St. John's.

SIPE: The problem is the number of bishops and priests who are sexually active, not in criminal ways, but with women, with men, and with each other. And that whole atmosphere pervades in seminaries.

GRIFFIN: Sexual activity among priests is not illegal, of course. But according to Sipe, the church's attempts to keep it secret have created a deeper and darker secret, the small percentage of priests who abuse children.

(on camera): And, at St. John's, where you have graduate after graduate becoming accused after accused, could there be any way the L.A. Archdiocese hierarchy didn't know about what was happening?

SIPE: No. No. There is no way they did not know.


GRIFFIN: Cardinal Roger Mahony is archbishop of Los Angeles. His responsibilities include St. John's. And he says there has been no problem at St. John's under his watch.

MAHONY: Absolutely not, not during my time here. And either while I was in the seminary or as archbishop, I was unaware of any kind of activity like that. And I think that the men who were rectors and priests who were in charge would have certainly not only made sure it didn't happen, but also would have told me about it.

GRIFFIN: But in what could be a turning point for the Catholic Church, the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Bishops have decided to seek out the root cause of the growing clergy sexual abuse scandal in the United States. And more than 100 seminaries, including St. John's, will be visited, students, faculty and graduates questioned. And at the top of the list will be questions about sex, homosexuality and promiscuity.

Richard Sipe calls it a start, but says the Vatican will not like the result.

SIPE: And so you have an atmosphere, not that is coming in from the bottom, but that comes down from the top and then is tolerated from the top.

GRIFFIN: John Grimly can only hope the church's findings will help prevent more young faithful people from becoming victims of the church he loved.

GRIMLY: And we live like hermits. We live broken, shattered lives because, when trust is so savagely taken, then you're just barely surviving.


ZAHN: One man's very tragic story from Drew Griffin.

Coming up ahead, religion, hatred and a deadly attack at the Atlanta Olympics. Only days before he's expected to plead guilty, a frightening portrait of the accused Olympic Park bomber.


DEBORAH RUDOLPH, FORMER SISTER-IN-LAW OF ERIC RUDOLPH: He believes that the Bible is the history of the white race and that the other races in the Bible, you know, are just -- he would call them mud people.


ZAHN: Still to come, inside the mind of Eric Rudolph.


ZAHN: Still ahead tonight, one of the most powerful, most listened to and some would say most offensive people in broadcasting, Howard Stern, pushing all the limits.

But first, just about 11 minutes past the hour, Erica Hill of HEADLINE NEWS standing by to update the hour's top stories.

Hi, Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula. Good to see you.

ZAHN: Thanks.

HILL: An unidentified man is now in custody after causing a security scare at the U.S. Capitol Building. Authorities tackled the man. Quite a scene today. He had brought two rolling suitcases to a small plaza on the west front of the Capitol and then just stood there with his hands behind his back facing the building. Now, there wasn't any explosive or hazardous inside those cases, but not taking any chances.

U.S. troop deployments to Iraq and other combat zones will now be limited to one year. A memo released by the Pentagon today says any extension beyond the 12-month limit would have to be approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. The memo clarifies the military's position on deployment limits. During the run-up to the Iraqi elections, thousands of U.S. troops were required to serve more than 12 months.

Martha Stewart, meantime, will serve out her full sentence. A federal judge today rejected a request by Stewart's Lawyers to change that. They argue, home detention is damaging her business and they wanted a shorter sentence or one that allows her to leave her home more often. Stewart is serving five months of home detention. That will end for her in August.

And filling your tank, yes, even more painful, and on a Monday. The average price of gasoline rose to another record high, now standing at $2.29 a gallon for regular unleaded.

And it's times like that, Paula, that probably make it good for you to be in New York City, where you may not need a car.


ZAHN: Bicycles and jogging shoes do the trick here.

HILL: Or the subway.

ZAHN: Exactly. Thanks, Erica. See you in a little bit.

Time to cast your vote now for our person of the day. The choices, Tiger Woods for ending a drought that lasted for 10 major tournaments. On the 16th hole yesterday, oh, you had to be watching it to believe it. Prince Charles and Camilla for getting married after a 30-year-plus affair and for delaying it a day for the pope's funeral. And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay for standing up to pressure from both parties to step down. Go to our Web site,, to make your choice. We'll let you know who won a little bit later on tonight.

In just a minute, the twisted world of an accused killer, Eric Rudolph, the Bible and bombs -- next.


ZAHN: On Wednesday, suspected serial bomber Eric Rudolph will plead guilty to attacking a women's clinic in Alabama in 1998. An off-duty police officer died and a nurse was maimed in that bombing.

Rudolph's plea will spare him the death penalty. In exchange for admitting to three other crimes, he will spend life in prison. Rudolph is a survivalist who spent five years hiding in the North Carolina mountains before he was finally caught in 2003. He is also described as a hate-filled white Christian separatist.


ZAHN (voice-over): January 16, 1997, two bombs explode at a women's clinic in an Atlanta suburb, an abortion clinic. Seven people are injured. February 21, 1997, another bombing attack on a gay nightclub in Atlanta injures four people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bomb explosion, the New Women's abortion clinic.

ZAHN: January 29, 1998, a bomb explodes outside a Birmingham, Alabama, abortion clinic. A security guard is killed, a nurse seriously injured. A suspect is spotted. A witness catches his license plate. It is traced back to this man, Eric Robert Rudolph.

While searching Rudolph's trailer home in North Carolina, police make a startling discovery, bomb-making material they say is linked to the 1996 Atlanta Olympic terrorist bombing that killed one person and injured more than 100. But why did Eric Rudolph choose these targets? He's not saying, but someone who knows him well paints a portrait of an extremist filled with hate.

(on camera): Who does Eric Rudolph hate and why?

RUDOLPH: The government would be one.

ZAHN: And why?

RUDOLPH: They control everything. And I think that he -- I think he has issues with control.

ZAHN (voice-over): Deborah Rudolph was married to Eric's brother Joel for six years. She watched Eric grow up and saw him harden into a man with very strong opinions.

RUDOLPH: A lot of people say that he's a racist. I wouldn't classify him as a racist, knowing him personally. He's more of a separatist. He believes that every -- each race should be true to themselves. He's not one that likes weak people. He does like strong people. He thinks that the strong are having to defend and support the weak. He believes that the Bible is the history of the white race and that the other races in the Bible, you know are, are just -- he would call them mud people.

ZAHN: Eric was raised by his mother, a former nun who eventually turned the family to darker beliefs.

RUDOLPH: There were always mercenary magazines laying around the house, philosophy books, newspapers, controversial newspapers, like "The Lightning Bolt" or "The Thunderbolt," different kind of papers like that. I would always see them laying around when we would go to the mountains.

ZAHN: Who bought those?

RUDOLPH: I would assume that it was something that, you know, the family subscribed to.

ZAHN: After Eric's father was diagnosed with cancer, the family's attitudes towards the government turned to hate. Mrs. Rudolph wanted to treat her husband with an illegal substance called laetrile.

RUDOLPH: They thought it was a natural way to kill or slow down cancer, made from apricot pits. They were a very self-sufficient family. And I think that that really was the topping on the cake.

ZAHN (on camera): The tipping point for him?


ZAHN: His father got sick. He wanted to bring laetrile into the country. He couldn't because the FDA told him it was illegal.

RUDOLPH: His mother wanted to treat him with laetrile. They wouldn't allow it. And she's very outspoken about it. And the children of course pick up on that.

ZAHN (voice-over): So, the family hunkered down in the North Carolina mountains, generating their own electricity and filtering their own water. Eric loved to smoke marijuana and watch movies, but not TV. Deborah says he thought that was controlled by Jews.

RUDOLPH: He would actually watch the TV and watch the credits roll. See, see, Steinbergs, this, and that. And he would just go on this. He would become very animated and go off on a tyrant, you know, just a fit about, you know, all these Jews that are in the media and on the news. And they're producers and directors and they run Hollywood and they publish, and so they control the information that we as a people are receiving.

ZAHN: As Eric Rudolph got older, he turned into a man willing to use terror to make his point.

CNN senior investigative reporter Henry Schuster has written a new book about Eric Rudolph.

HENRY SCHUSTER, CNN PRODUCER: Friends who saw Eric up to the time of the Olympic Games said that, increasingly, he would sit in the house with the curtains drawn. He would be ranting against the government. He would be watching TV and going into these terrific rages. He was increasingly paranoid about surveillance from the government.

ZAHN: So, why did Eric Rudolph choose the Olympics and abortion clinics as his targets? Deborah Rudolph thinks she knows.

RUDOLPH: I think it goes back to a race thing, again, back to this idea that the majority of abortions performed in this country are performed on white women. But yet black women, Hispanic women are allowed to have all these kids and the government is going to support them.

So, I think that was the issue with that. The Olympics, I think it is a matter of all of these people coming from all different countries and cultures and colors and races and religions all coming together in one place. ZAHN: But Deborah Rudolph also says she saw something in her former brother-in-Law that perhaps the world will never see, an intelligence that was wasted.

RUDOLPH: I've always said that he was either going to be famous for something or infamous for something. Eric could have been a great leader of people. He could have been a great leader of men. That's how smart he was.


ZAHN: Well, before Rudolph's plea bargain, I asked Deborah how she felt about potentially giving testimony that could send her brother-in-law to his death.


ZAHN: You have to concede that, at this point, your testimony is going to hurt Eric Rudolph a lot more than it is going to help him.

RUDOLPH: Yes, it will. And I'm sorry. But I guess maybe in a way my father fought for this country, and maybe this is my way.

ZAHN: Of thanking him?

RUDOLPH: Of doing something for my country.


ZAHN: Well, as part of the plea bargain that will spare his life, Eric Rudolph apparently told prosecutors where to find other explosives.

When we come back, the family of the woman who died in the Olympic Park bombing talks about what else they would like to see.


JOHN HAWTHORNE, HUSBAND OF ALICE HAWTHORNE: Well, hopefully, I can I can see something in his eyes that will that will give me an indication that maybe he has some level of remorse.



ZAHN: When Eric Rudolph pleads guilty to that 1998 bombing of a women's clinic in Alabama, he will avoid the death penalty. In exchange, he will admit to three other crimes, bombing a lesbian nightclub in 1997, bombing a women's clinic Georgia that same year, and then, of course, the bombing during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta that ended up wounding more than 100 people and killing one person, Alice Hawthorne.

Earlier, I spoke with her husband and daughter, who was injured in that explosion. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And John Hawthorne and Fallon Stubbs join us now.

Good of you to join us. Welcome.

HAWTHORNE: Thank you.


ZAHN: Our pleasure.

John, I know the plea deal did not come as a surprise to you, because the U.S. attorney's office actually called you and told you that they were thinking about this kind of compromise.

HAWTHORNE: That's correct.

ZAHN: Even though you are in favor of the death penalty, you came around to the U.S. attorney's way of thinking. Why?

HAWTHORNE: Because, with what was on the table, with the possibility of other people being seriously injured or killed from the other bombs and/or explosive devices that his attorney said that he had knowledge of and was willing to give that information up, and to take the death penalty off the table, to not have people get killed or injured, it became something that I could support.

ZAHN: But, in the beginning, you wanted to see Eric Rudolph die for killing your wife.

HAWTHORNE: I felt that he needed to pay the ultimate penalty for what he did. You're absolutely right.

ZAHN: Fallon, can you ever forgive Eric Rudolph for killing your mother?

STUBBS: I can and I have. It really was -- occurred to me yesterday when I was thinking about, you know, everything over again and what I was going to say, and it really occurred to me that there was no anger, no more hate. It was just relief. He is the one who did it. And he will be punished for it. And I think that the sentence they gave him is more than enough for me to sleep good at night.

ZAHN: Fallon, how much did Eric Rudolph change your family's life, not only killing your mother, but injuring you and, all told, with all the crimes included, more than 100 people?

STUBBS: My mother was basically the glue that held her side of the family together. And so, when she wasn't there, it took a lot of, a lot of things to happen for us to actually become a family again and for everyone to kind of get together and still enjoy each other's company. And I think that's what we miss more than anything on my side is just her being around, just her energy, her wisdom, her guidance.

ZAHN: I know both of you will be in court for Eric Rudolph's plea hearing on Wednesday.

Why is it so important, John, for you to physically be there and see him?

HAWTHORNE: This will be first opportunity I have to actually see him. I didn't get a chance to see him back in 2003, when he was captured. So, it is important for me to hopefully get a chance to look him in the eye. I don't know if he'll look me in the eye, but I would like to have him look me in the eye.

ZAHN: What is going to go through your mind as you look at him eye to eye?

HAWTHORNE: Well, hopefully, I can see something in his eyes that will give me an indication that maybe he has some level of remorse. I would like to see that from him, if possible.

ZAHN: And that about you, Fallon?

STUBBS: Well, I'm basically on the same level. I just think that, by actually putting a face with the man, you know, you will kind of see -- you can kind of pick up what kind of person he is, you know, whether you think that, OK, he doesn't care. This is just a routine for him or, you know, whether you think, well, he's generally sorry for what he did. And then you will be able to sleep a little better.

ZAHN: I guess finally some answers to fill in some pretty powerful questions your family has had all along.

Fallon, good luck to you.

Thank you, John.

HAWTHORNE: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time tonight.


ZAHN: That was John Hawthorne and his daughter. Thank you to both of them.

And, in just a minute, we're going to switch on the radio and tune in to a big dose of controversy.


STERN: The audience never gets tired of me. They love me, don't you? Let me hear the audience.


STERN: Those are my people. ZAHN: Yes, that's right. Millions love him. And of course, millions hate him, and he's taking his show where no one can stop him. Our "People in the News" spotlight on Howard Stern next.

And please, don't forget to vote for our person of the day. Will it be four-time Masters winner, Tiger Woods -- he had that unbelievable putt on 16. The royal newlyweds for finally tying the knot? Or House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who's standing up to his critics on both sides of the aisle? Go to and vote, vote, vote.


ZAHN: Well, the fight over just how raunchy TV and radio should be has reached a new level. So first, a warning, you might find some of what you're about to see and hear offensive.

According to "Broadcasting and Cable" magazine, 169 FOX TV stations are expected to refuse to pay $1 million indecency fine for airing last year a risque episode of "Married by America."

Well, of course, all this started with Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction during last year's Super Bowl. For that, the FCC slapped CBS with a half million dollar fine. Then morning radio host, Bubba the Love Sponge, opened his mouth. That cost radio giant Clear Channel Communications three-quarters of a million dollars. And then, there is shock jock Howard Stern, who was yanked off the air in a number of cities for his -- how should I say this -- naughty bits? Howard is the focus of tonight's "People in the News."


ZAHN (voice-over): Listen.

STERN: Hey, G-Man, you're on the air.

ZAHN: This is Howard Stern.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what's going on, Howard? They're cutting off your show.

ZAHN: Talking on his radio show.

STERN: Are they bleeping?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're cutting it all up.

STERN: I don't know why. I didn't do anything wrong.

ZAHN: Listen closer. What do you hear? Do you hear one of the most influential voices in the history of radio?

RICHARD ROEPER, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: He's funny. He's smart. And he says a lot of things on the radio that most people just think but don't have the guts to say.

STERN: Maybe you're mad at me.

ZAHN: Do you hear a so-called shock jock, outrageous and offensive?

STERN: Breast implants, girls? No? Well, hello.

BOZELL: He has scraped the bottom of the barrel, and he just kind of sits there. It's pathetic.

ZAHN: Or can you hear something else, something below the surface, an ongoing debate over indecency, and questions of free speech?

KEN PAULSON, FORMER DIRECTOR, FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER: Howard Stern is not a hero of the First Amendment. He's a very savvy user of the First Amendment.

STERN: Something going on with the FCC.

ZAHN: For more than two decades, controversy and Howard Stern have been inseparable.

STERN: We need some naked women.

ZAHN: He's pushed the limits of what can and can't be said on broadcast radio. And racked up plenty of FCC fines in the process.

Now, he's rocking the radio world once again, moving his show to satellite, in what could be a seismic shift for the radio industry.

STERN: My show has been changed by the government. Huge chunks of the show that are removed. I mean, you listen to my show now, it's not what it was 10 years ago. They keep chopping it up, they keep packing it up. Every time the religious right complains about the show, they get their way.

I know that some people find this hard to believe, but we've actually come up with cash this time.

ZAHN: Howard Stern says he's wanted to be on the radio since he was five, and stuck in traffic with his father.

PETER CASTRO, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: He remembers seeing how sad and how bored his father looked listening to the news, sitting in that car in traffic. And it dawned on him, what if somebody had a radio show that made people laugh?

ZAHN: Stern grew up on Long Island, in a household where no- holds-barred conversations was the norm. "People" magazine's Peter Castro interviewed Stern and his family in 1993.

CASTRO: Within the first 30 seconds, the father was already telling me about the terrible gas problem that little Howard had. And in the next 30 seconds, you had his mother telling me about how she used to like giving Howard her underwear, because sometimes he ran out of his own underwear and he would have to wears her. And I thought, are these people putting me on? And then I realized, you know what, no, they're not acting. This is what these people are really like, which explains why he turned out the way he did.

ZAHN: Stern attended Boston University, where he met his future wife, Alison. He also got his first radio show, which lasted one day.

STERN: And I started to do an outrageous radio show with three other guys, and I got fired on my college radio station. And at some point, my father said to me, why don't you go try to be a straight disc jockey, you've got to learn how to do it straight before you get on and start doing some nutty things. It was good advice. I mean, for a year or two, I played it very straight. It was very stifling.

ZAHN: Stern soon discovered playing it straight wasn't the right path for him.

STERN: I wasn't going out there and really letting loose. I was worried about image. And I was worried about pleasing my boss, and I even had program directors telling me, don't talk to women because you sound weak when you talk to women on the phone, talk to men. And I was listening to everybody. And I said, that's it, I'm not listening to anybody, I know what I've got to do, and I'm going all the way.

By the end of 1993, I would be in over 200 cities in the United States of America.

ZAHN: A different Stern emerged.

STERN: You have beautiful women here.

ZAHN: He was funny, bawdy, and offensive.

STERN: We love you. You are almost nude today.

ZAHN: He spoke whatever was on his mind.

STERN: I'll tell you the truth. I said what I said, and nobody else has to apologize for me.

ZAHN: He even joked about a miscarriage his wife had had, an event dramatized in "Private Parts," a movie based on Stern's autobiographical book.

STERN: Howie Jr., no bigger than the size of an aspirin.


STERN: It was a boy, yes.


ZAHN: Stern became known as a so-called shock jock.


STERN: Tell her to shut up already. ZAHN: A label he rejected.

STERN: I'm a comedian. These guys, I don't know, they get on and they just -- you know, they may go, oh, you're a communist egg- sucking pig, and that's their style of radio. I'm not into that. So I don't really attack people. I make fun of situations.

What's your name?

JEFF CAMPBELL, LISTENER: Jeff Campbell (ph).

STERN: Jeff Pansy?

ZAHN: Stern's brand of comedy caught on. In 1982, he reached the top of the radio world, and was hired by WNBC in New York.

STERN: Mr. Show Business with you, Howard Stern.

MICHAEL MARRISON, TALKERS MAGAZINE: They had a 50,000-watt signal that covered the whole Northeast, and it had the NBC call letters.

STERN: 322 at WNBC.

MARRISON: WNBC was a giant, prestigious radio station. And it was also the establishment.

STERN: The point is that I am the star of the radio station. I have the highest ratings on the station. I own this station.

ZAHN: But Stern's brand of radio didn't mesh with his corporate management's.

Despite being number one in the ratings, Stern was fired.

STERN: It was best thing that ever happened to me, getting fired from there. And to be honest with you, I really don't even care what happened at NBC. I'm proud to be away from them. And it's just great to be out of there. The place is a loony bin.

ZAHN: Stern was then hired by a rival station, and soon beat WNBC in the ratings.

STERN: Now the ratings are bigger than ever. The station I used to work for, we just buried in the ratings. We held a big funeral for them. And they're finished.

ZAHN: And it would be just the beginning of Stern's run-ins with the powers that be.

STERN: Well, my career is over.

ZAHN: The story continues, war over words. Millions of dollars in fines. Howard Stern takes on the FCC.



ZAHN: There is a lot of debate these days about what is too raunchy for TV and radio. Once again, a reminder that some of what you may see and hear coming up may be offensive.

Indecency, of course, means different things to different people. We all have different tolerance levels, and Howard Stern is pushing the envelope on that issue all the time. And that's brought him plenty of attention.


ZAHN (voice-over): Howard Stern's morning radio show draws millions of listeners every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Howard rules. He takes the cake of all media.

STERN: The audience never gets tired of me. They love me, don't you? Let me hear the audience.


Those are my people.

ZAHN: It features a mix of topical humor, celebrities, and plenty of talk of bodily functions and sex.

STERN: Whoa. Hey, now.

ZAHN: Lots of sex.

STERN: That's what 18 looks like, huh?

Burping and farting still turn me on. I still think it is funny. I have a porno movie waiting for me at the hotel that I'm going to watch tonight, and I'm going to be by myself, and I'm going to have sex with myself tonight. I'm still a child. I'm still excited by those things. And that is probably why I'm still successful.

PROF. ROBERT THOMPSON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Let's face it. Morning radio people are hired to do things that will come this close to getting them fired. It is the job description. They're supposed to do things so outrageous that every day they are dancing the line between keeping their jobs.

ZAHN: However, the FCC has fined stations that carry Stern's show multiple times for millions of dollars, saying he stepped over the line of outrageousness into indecency.

STERN: Screw everybody.

MICHAEL HARRISON, TALKERS MAGAZINE: He's the kind of person that means millions of dollars for the companies that have him. Whenever he gets in trouble, or when they have to pay fines, it's worth it because he brings in so much more money than it costs to have him.

ZAHN: The FCC definition of indecency focuses on language deemed patently offensive by community broadcast standards. However, it leaves plenty of room for interpretation.

THOMPSON: What is patently offensive to contemporary community standards? Big city, no way are you going get any consensus on what contemporary standards are. Small town, probably not. Under the same roof, probably not.

STERN: (INAUDIBLE) she wants to give me an exam.

BOZELL: You look at some of the raunch that's on Howard Stern's radio show and I challenge you to find me a single community anywhere in America -- including the 90210 zip code -- that finds it acceptable to have that material.

ZAHN: Now those decisions are made by the FCC.

RICHARD ROEPER, FILM CRITIC: My problem with that is whether you like Howard Stern or not, it's, today they decide that Howard Stern has crossed that line, tomorrow maybe it is Rush Limbaugh. Then the day after that, it's another form of programming and you got all this power in this governing body.

ZAHN: However, Stern won't have to worry about the FCC much longer.

STERN: I am so thrilled about this.

ZAHN: He will move his show from broadcast to satellite radio in January of 2006 when his current contract runs out.

STERN: I have one of the largest radio shows in the world. Whenever I go on my radio show, if I have to sell a book, sell a movie, do anything like that, I can instantly go on and reach millions of people. I'm walking away from it. And the reason I'm walking away from that is I believe the future is with satellite radio.

ZAHN: There is another reason for the switch. Satellite radio isn't regulated by the FCC for indecency. So Stern will have the opportunity to say whatever he wants without fear of government punishment.

THOMPSON: The one challenge shock jocks would have in satellite radio is, having no rules to butt up against, they may suddenly find themselves in the situation where the very thing that animated them in the first place has been taken away.

ZAHN: So listen again to Howard Stern.

STERN: I changed radio when I got into this 20 something years ago. And I'm going to change radio again.

ZAHN: The man who pushed the limits of indecency and what can and can't be said on the radio, is pushing boundaries yet again.


ZAHN (on camera): But satellite radio may not be a safe haven for long. Some members of Congress are now pushing to extend indecency rules to cover cable and satellite services.

Tomorrow night, a revealing conversation with Jane Fonda about her eating disorders, her marriages, and her feelings about being known as "Hanoi Jane."

And you can find more stories on the people shaping our world in "People" magazine.

And there's still some time for you to vote for our person of the day. Should it be Tiger Woods for winning his fourth Masters title? The royal newlyweds for finally making it to the altar after more than 30 years as a couple. And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay for fighting back against his critics on both sides of the aisle. Go and make your choice. We'll be counting your votes.


ZAHN: We're coming up on your choice for a "Person of the Day" in just a minute.

But first, it is about 8 minutes before the hour. Time again to check in with Erica Hill at HEADLINE NEWS.

Hi, Erica.

HILL: Hi. Thanks, Paula.

An American contractor is being held by kidnappers in Iraq. They've abducted him from a construction site in Baghdad. U.S. Embassy officials notified his family, but would not reveal the name of the victim nor his company.

The mother of a boy who made allegations of sexual abuse against Michael Jackson in 1993 took the stand at his trial today. She testified she allowed her son to spend nights alone with Jackson after the singer "Sobbed and pleaded with her to trust him." The boy who's now 25 reached a multimillion dollar settlement with Jackson and has refused to testify. His uncle says the man wants to avoid getting involved in the media spectacle surrounding the Jackson trial.

The FDA is giving silicone breast implants another look. At an emotional hearing today, women who blamed leaking silicone implants for crippling health problems faced women who call the implants the best option. The acting director for the FDA's Device Evaluation Division stresses any final decision will be based on scientific data. The FDA banned most uses of silicone implants already, including cosmetic breast augmentation. That happened about 13 years ago.

And springtime bringing no relief for snow removal crews in Colorado. After getting nearly two feet of snow over the weekend, more bad weather forced the closing of dozens of schools and about 200 miles of Interstate 70 today. Hundreds of people were stuck at the Denver airport for a second day.

They couldn't even get to the slopes, Paula. That's the latest from HEADLINE NEWS. Back to you.

ZAHN: I know, it's miserable as it was for the drivers, a fact is, a lot of these ski areas extended the ski season because of this enormous snowfall made me very jealous. Not about getting stuck in the snow, but -- but about being out there on the slopes. Thanks, Erica.

"LARRY KING LIVE" is straight ahead at 9:00, counting the minutes until he comes on. Larry, who's with you tonight.

LARRY KING, HOST "LARRY KING LIVE": You know all about skiing, don't you?

ZAHN: I know, I am a serious skier. I'm jealous, I didn't get that extra day in this season.

KING: Well, you'll make up for it.

ZAHN: I hope so.

KING: Well, we had a great show tonight. Joan Rivers will be reporting to us from London. She attended as the guest of Prince Charles, the wedding of Prince Charles an Camilla Parker-Bowles. Joan Rivers will be there to tell us all about it. And then Suzanne Somers. Now, Paula, Suzanne came on this very program to announce that she had breast cancer. She returns tonight to give us an update as to how she's doing. So, it's Joan Rivers and Suzanne Somers all ahead at 9:00.

ZAHN: You know, I wasn't with the network at that time, but I vividly remember watching that hour, because I spend a lot of time trying to raise funds for mammograms all over the country for women who can't afford to have them. And I'll tell you, her announcement had such an impact on early detection, and awareness -- early detection all over the country.

KING: It was amazing. Amazing.

ZAHN: Same impact as her books have had.

KING: Yes.

ZAHN: Tell her we wish her the best.

KING: I sure will.

ZAHN: Thanks, have a good show.

KING: Bye.

ZAHN: Coming up next, our "Person of the Day." Who will it be, Tiger Woods, those royal newlyweds or House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?


ZAHN: All right, so who is your choice for "Person of the Day?"

Tiger Woods for winning his fourth Masters championship?

Prince Charles and Camilla for getting married after a 30 year affair?

And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay for standing up to pressure from both parties to step down.

You chose, it was Tiger Woods. Our, Jeanne Moos has more.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even if you never, ever whacked a golf ball, you'll recognize the sinking sensation that Tiger Woods felt with the shot heard around the golf world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're begging it to go in. Begging it.

MOOS: For a full two seconds, Tiger's ball lingered on the rim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was pretty amazing, wouldn't you think? Thank God for gravity.

MOOS: Though gravity took eternity. You'd be ecstatic too, if critics had questioned you, wondering if Tiger's slump was permanent. A result of his new swing or new Swedish wife, a former model. Gravity by the way was not so kind to the man who almost tamed Tiger. And with this putt, as "The New York Times" put it, the ball hurried into the hole like a field mouse, Tiger was back on top, winning his fourth Masters. And the right to wear that green jacket, did we say right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is like this puke green. It is hideous.

MOOS: Notice Tiger had trouble finding his sleeve. Most guys aren't used to having someone help them on with their jacket. By the second time he did it, things went better, not to mention the third and the fourth times. They usually contained Tiger choked up dedicating this win to his very ill father.

TIGER WOODS, MASTERS CHAMPION: Every year that I've been lucky enough to have won this tournament, my dad has been there to give me a hug, and he wasn't there today.

MOOS: Between Tiger's tears and the ball that couldn't make up its mind, this was some Masters. Ever had a shot like that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've had plenty like it. Unfortunately, my tend to sit right on the lip. They never fall in. His fell in. MOOS: "The New York Post" quoted another famous tiger.


MOOS: The shot reminded many of the movie "Caddie Shack." It took Bill Murray setting off explosives to get rid of a gopher -- to make that ball do what Tigers did unaided. Be careful what you wish for with Tiger. The director of a Nike commercial once dare him to hit the camera.

WOODS: He said to hit it.

MOOS: Hitting the poor lens. Now his bad luck seems to have turned and a tearful Tiger has once again earned his stripes.


ZAHN: Congratulations, Tiger. That's so much fun to watch. That's it for all of us tonight. Thanks for joining us, good night.



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