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CNN LIVE AT DAYBREAK

Terri Schiavo Draws Closer to Death as Her Parents Near End of Legal Options

Aired March 25, 2005 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Terri Schiavo draws closer to death as her parents near the end of their legal options. We are awaiting another judge's ruling right now in the life and death battle over Terri Schiavo.
Plus, the neurologist who claims Terri Schiavo has been misdiagnosed. What's the basis for his assessment and who is he, anyway?

And CNN tracks the global climate change. Some big furry creatures are becoming unintended victims in Canada's Hudson Bay.

It is Friday, March 25.

You are watching DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you.

From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

Now in the news, after more court denials, Terri Schiavo's family pinning their hopes on a judge that's already turned them down. A federal judge in Tampa now reviewing an emergency request filed by Schiavo's parents to have the brain damaged woman's feeding tube reinserted. That ruling could come at any time today.

Osama bin Laden -- did he escape at Tora Bora or not? The Pentagon has always said it didn't know. Well, now a military legal document says a prisoner in custody at Guantanamo Bay, and I'm quoting here, this is what he said, "assisted in the escape of the al Qaeda leader."

The suspect in the Atlanta courthouse shooting reportedly left an escape plan in his jail cell. The Fulton County sheriff discussed the hand drawn diagrams with a local Atlanta TV reporter. Brian Nichols is accused of killing four people in a shooting rampage two weeks ago.

To the Forecast Center now.

Chad is back -- good morning, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT) COSTELLO: If you're a little confused about what's going on in the Terri Schiavo case, you're certainly not alone. In a nutshell, the case is now back in Florida in a federal court there. At issue, what Schiavo's family says is new evidence. I know what you're saying, what new evidence?

CNN's Mary Snow sorts it out for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Terri Schiavo's parents asked a federal judge Terri intervene on behalf of their daughter. It was a four hour hearing with no ruing announced. Now, protesters are turning to Florida's governor.

(voice-over): After the Supreme Court refused to hear their case, Terri Schiavo's parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, made another last minute appeal to a federal judge in Florida to try and save their daughter's life. The family is still holding out hope, but says it's agonizing to watch.

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Part of me wants to be there and the other part of me just wants to get out of the room as fast as I can. You know, as my sister said, it's just, you know, you're watching your sister being slowly dehydrated to death in front of your eyes. And it's just, it's absolutely horrific.

SNOW: Terri Schiavo has been without a feeding tube for a week. Outside the hospice, protesters kept vigil. Their signs read, "Save Terri." They called on Governor Jeb Bush to intervene. He tried on Wednesday, but a judge barred the street from taking custody of Schiavo.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I've consistently said that I can't go beyond what my powers are. And I'm not going to do it.

SNOW: An attorney for Schiavo's husband Michael said he was grateful for Thursday's court hearings preventing a feeding tube from being reinserted into Terri Schiavo.

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: We believe it's time for that, for that to stop, for this activity to stop, as we approach this Easter weekend, and that Mrs. Schiavo be able to die in peace.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SNOW: Some of the protesters are now shifting their focus away from the hospice where Terri Schiavo lives to the governor's mansion. This being Good Friday, they're holding a prayer vigil, asking the governor to step in.

Reporting from Pinellas Park, Florida, I'm Mary Snow.

Now back to you.

COSTELLO: Now, as you probably know, there is a doctor who is weighing in on Schiavo's condition even though he never physically examined her. He's at the heart of this new evidence coming from the Schindler camp.

His name is Dr. William Cheshire. But who is he?

Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more on Dr. Cheshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is all we have seen of Dr. William Cheshire. He dropped a bombshell and refused to say anything more.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: The neurologist review indicates that Terri may have been misdiagnosed.

COHEN: Many neurologists have testified in court that Terri Schiavo is not aware of what is going on around her. Dr. Cheshire, a board-certified neurologist at the Mayo Clinic, joins a few doctors who disagree. In an affidavit Wednesday, he wrote that he visited Terri Schiavo, but did not examine her. "When I first walked into her room, she immediately tuned her head toward me and looked directly at my face. Several times, I witnessed Terry laugh in response to a humorous comment someone in the room had made."

Dr. Cheshire said he watched videotape from 2002 and made these conclusions: "When asked to close her eyes, she began to blink repeatedly. She did appear to raise her right leg four times in succession each time she was asked to do so."

So who is Dr. William Cheshire? Not much is known about him. He declined to speak to CNN or other media. A search of the medical literature found no articles by him on the vegetative state. He has published on headaches, the nervous system and the rights of embryos.

After receiving his medical degree, Dr. Cheshire got his masters degree in bioethics from Trinity International University. The school says its mission is forming students to transform the world through Christ. He's director of biotech ethics at the Center For Bioethics and Human Dignity, a group that says it was established to counteract the noticeable lack of explicit Christian engagement in the crucial bioethics arena.

All of this makes some doctors and bioethicists we talked to nervous.

Father John Paris is a Jesuit priest and a bioethicist at Boston College.

FATHER JOHN PARIS, S.J., BIOETHICIST, BOSTON COLLEGE: I thought the affidavit was bizarre. Here's a physician, a well-trained physician, making a diagnosis on an individual who is not his patient without a full examination and without doing any of the diagnostic tests and imaging tests that would be necessary to make an adequate and complete diagnosis. COHEN: But a lawyer for the Florida Department of Families and Children said Dr. Cheshire was highly qualified to issue the affidavit.

LUCY HADI, SECRETARY, FLORIDA DFC: Dr. Cheshire has also done considerable research on the aspects of pain and how those aspects are manifested in people in persistent vegetative state versus those with minimal consciousness.

COHEN: But others say religious Christian groups like the one Dr. Cheshire works with have an agenda in the Schiavo case.

PARIS: I think that what they're doing is not in the name of Christianity, or at least not in the name of the Catholic brand of Christianity, which is the brand that I understand. We do not hold that life is an absolute good. And we do not hold that one is morally obliged to do everything possible to sustain every life as long as possible. And, in fact, we believe that that sort of an approach is wrong.

COHEN: In the end, Dr. Cheshire's affidavit didn't sway the courts. No matter what his medical training, no matter what his religious convictions, it hasn't changed anything for Terri Schiavo, at least not yet.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COSTELLO: It's now almost seven days without food or water and Terri Schiavo is showing signs of dehydration. The exact description of her condition? Well, it depends on who's describing it. Michael Schiavo's brother Brian says she looks peaceful. Terri Schiavo's family says she looks like she's in a concentration camp.

Here's more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER: I saw her last night and, you know, I've said it before: I think the best say to describe the way she looks is it's reminiscent of -- I've seen pictures of people in concentration camps. It's just absolutely horrific what I'm seeing happen in front of my eyes. And just the death by dehydration and starvation is just absolutely barbaric. And, uh, it's almost a surreal sight when I walk into my sister's room. It's hard to explain.

BRIAN SCHIAVO, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: I just came here from seeing her and the only way how I can describe this is she's peaceful. She's lying there. Sometimes her mouth is agape and, you know, she's peaceful. She's not writing in pain. You know, she's really not too different than I saw her a day, you know, the day before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So much of the fight surrounding Terri Schiavo has been about god and politics. Anti-abortion activists have taken up Terri Schiavo's case, protesting day after day in front of Mrs. Schiavo's hospice. Is this part of the fight resonating with America or backfiring for groups like Operation Rescue and the Christian Defense Coalition?

We're going to explore both sides of this issue.

First, live to Tallahassee and the Reverend Pat Mahoney, who is now camped out at the governor's mansion.

Good morning.

REV. PAT MAHONEY: Good morning.

Forgive the sound of the rain on the umbrella. We're in a torrential downpour here. But our spirits are still hoping and trusting.

COSTELLO: How many protesters are outside of the governor's mansion in Tallahassee?

MAHONEY: Well, we have a bus. The people are, went back into the bus. Many didn't have umbrellas. But there is 40 on the bus and more will be coming throughout the day. We're staying here from 6:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. We're just imploring and pleading with the governor to intervene, to protect Terri. We believe the governor does have the right and authority. And here on Good Friday, we come as a peaceful and prayerful witness, those who cherish the dignity of life and all people of goodwill, to intervene in this barbaric and horrific death...

COSTELLO: Sir...

MAHONEY: ... in Pinellas.

COSTELLO: ... Randall Terry of Operation Rescue has come out and said there would be "hell to pay" if Terri Schiavo dies.

What did he mean?

MAHONEY: Well, you would have to ask Randall that. I certainly didn't say that. I think what Randall was referring to is speaking at political price. Remember, the Florida Senate, which voted 21-18 not to intervene in the Schiavo case, is Republican led. And I can only surmise what Randall was saying. I think he was saying that at the ballot box, people will remember.

We are seeing a growing movement of the faith and value community. We saw that in November of 2004. And I think that's what Randall was addressing.

COSTELLO: All right. You know, I respect my viewers very much. They're wondering about your role in the Schiavo case.

I want to read you an e-mail from a viewer. This is from Mort from Meadow Brook, Pennsylvania. He says: "The real villains here are the radical right-wing religious zealots who have cruelly given the parents' false hope. Every American should be concerned about the intrusion that the radical right is willing to make on our lives if we believe differently."

How do you respond to that?

MAHONEY: Well, first of all, I'm not part of the radical right. I'm a Christian. I'm a Democrat. Many of the people, this was a bipartisan bill that went through the Senate and House. The Senate, it was unanimous consent. That means not one Democrat, not Senator Kennedy, not Senator Clinton, voiced opposition to the legislation. There were 55 Democrats who voted for it. Many of the people...

COSTELLO: But why should you be involved in Terri Schiavo's fight?

MAHONEY: Well, first of all, I'm involved because the family invited us to be involved. That's number one. Number two, we were involved in the Nancy Krisan case 15 years ago. This is very much a part of our struggle. You know, it's interesting, when I feed the homeless, when I work on civil rights, when I speak out against the death penalty, I never hear these arguments. But when we stand in this case somehow the opposition is trying to paint this as some kind of radical payback to the Christian right, which nothing could be further...

COSTELLO: Well, a lot of people out there are doing that, too, because President Bush's poll numbers have gone down. And some experts think it's because of this issue, because he weighed in on this particular issue.

MAHONEY: Well, first of all, we're not moved by poll numbers. That's number one. And, second, I just want to stress that it was unanimous consent in the United States Senate. I think that President Bush -- And, again, there are people who disagree with the president on other issues out in Pinellas Park and here. We're coming together -- I just want to say this. I find it somewhat disingenuous to try to paint this as a religious right issue.

Randall Terry has been asked by the family, as he was involved in 2000...

COSTELLO: But this is being painted as a religious issue, isn't it, because the courts have ruled against the Schindlers 22 times now?

MAHONEY: Well...

COSTELLO: I mean you're basing your fight on religion, aren't you?

MAHONEY: No. We're basing our fight on the principles of, certainly, our faith. But Dr. King, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And dear god, Carol, I would hope that on this Good Friday, it wouldn't just be a "religious rights" issue when a woman is being starved to death anymore than it was a religious right issue to stand up and speak out against segregation or to feed the hungry or to put emergency shelters up for people in the streets.

COSTELLO: All right, Reverend...

MAHONEY: We...

COSTELLO: Reverend, we're going to have to wrap it up. I apologize.

We're going to have Morris Reid joining us after a break to talk more about this from the other side of the issue.

But we do thank the reverend for joining us this morning.

DAYBREAK will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Still to come, speaking out in support of Michael Schiavo's rights. Is the political battle over Terri's life keeping some politicians from talking for fear of backlash? One Democratic consultant talks to us straight ahead.

We're back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GIBBS, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT AND MARY SCHINDLER: If she dies, there is going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family Republican people of various legislative levels, statewide and federal wide, who have used pro-life, pro-family conservative rhetoric to get into power and then when they have that power, they refuse to use it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Hell to pay, he says. And people holding vigil outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo is dying are just as passionate. They say depriving the brain damaged woman of nutrition and water amounts to murder.

As I said, strong words from Operation Rescue's Randall Terry. You know, the anti-abortion faction has been very vocal on this issue, but not so much the other side. And we found that intriguing.

One man who did agree to join us live today is Morris Reid, a Democratic consultant and political strategist.

Good morning.

MORRIS REID, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Good morning.

How are you?

COSTELLO: I'm fine. So why haven't more Democrats come out with the other side of the issue? We haven't heard from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at all, or other prominent Democrats.

REID: Well, it's a private family matter. And I think that a lot of people on the right and other people in the pro-life movement have really seized on this for their own political agenda. I really think the real losers here, aside from the family whose privacy, you know, and the husband and Terri herself are really the people that need to decide this. But the pro-choice movement, I think, needs to really figure out how they're going to recover from this.

I think if you think about what happened in the last presidential election, this issue wasn't really on the top five. So the pro-life agenda has really seized upon this to further their battle cry.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, we tried to get pro-abortion groups on DAYBREAK to say something. All of them declined.

Why are they remaining silent?

REID: Because this is not an issue that is really fundamental to what their choices are. They really focus on a woman's right to choose. I think that the folks on the pro-life side have really seized on this and they are using this as their own political football. I really think that the pro-choice people are going to really have to figure out how they deal with this, because I think that this is going to really help the pro-life folks. This allows them to say hey, we're for life at all stages.

So the pro-choice people are really going to have to figure this out. And if I were advising them, I would be getting them in a room to talk about this right away.

COSTELLO: Randall Terry from Operation Rescue -- we just heard him threaten conservatives for not -- if they don't win this fight.

Should they be afraid?

REID: No one should be afraid. And it's really that inflammatory language that is really don't -- not something that we need. We don't need the reverend getting into this situation. We frankly don't need the Congress or the president or the governor of Florida getting involved. This is a family matter. And, quite frankly, I think that government is really going too far in getting into our lives right now. You know, they're sort of everywhere. They're in baseball, they're in this. You know, I believe that there are a number of fundamental issues to state that the federal government needs to focus on and this is a private family matter.

COSTELLO: You know, I'm hearing you, but many Democrats would say if Democrats feel that strongly about this, why aren't they front and center on this issue? Why are they afraid?

REID: I don't think they're afraid. I think that they see this as a private matter. And, quite frankly, they... COSTELLO: Oh, come on.

REID: Well, listen, quite frankly and honestly, this is also a losing issue.

COSTELLO: Isn't it more they see it as a scary political issue that they want to stay away from?

REID: I think this is an issue that they don't see the up side for them, if you will. I don't think they want to put their foot in the water, if you will. You know politicians, they sort of put their finger up to see which way the wind is going to blow. And if it's not blowing in the right direction, sometimes the best thing to do is to stay out of the kitchen.

But I do believe that this is a personal issue for the family. And when we really look at this, this is a situation where we have a lot of politicians and people that are on the right side of this issue are seizing upon this.

So, you know, are the Democrats scared or frightened? Maybe. But this is still something that no government official, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, really needs to get involved with.

COSTELLO: Morris Reid, a Democratic consultant and political strategist, joining us this morning.

Thank you.

REID: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Police say he went on a courtroom shooting spree and left a city paralyzed. Now, investigators say suspect Brian Nichols was planning to escape from jail. A look at his detailed plans, next.

And from a field trip to see animals to an emergency room to see a doctor. The latest on the serious infection outbreak, when DAYBREAK continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In other "Stories Across America" this Friday, a classmate says Jeff Weise talked about nothing but guns and shooting people. Police identified Weise as the gunman in Monday's high school shooting spree in Minnesota. Cody Thunder was one of those shot. But despite Weise's tough talk, the attack did surprise Thunder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CODY THUNDER, WOUNDED STUDENT: I never thought he would do this. I never thought that he would come up and try to shoot up the school.

QUESTION: What did he say about the guns?

THUNDER: He just talked about them. He talked about shooting people and stuff. And I never knew that he would come up here. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The cartoon you saw previous to that sounds like supposedly Weise designed that. Police say Weise killed nine people and himself on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota.

Another body has been found in the debris at a Texas oil refinery. Teams of investigators are still trying to pinpoint the cause of the blast that left 15 workers dead and more than 100 others injured. The refinery supplies 3 percent of the nation's gas supply. But managers say supply is not being affected by the accident.

As many as nine Florida children have been hospitalized after visits to petting zoos. The children are suffering from a potentially fatal kidney infection most commonly associated with E. coli. The infected children all visited petting zoos at fairs and festivals in and around Orlando.

New details are surfacing this morning in the Atlanta courthouse shooting investigation, including claims that suspect Brian Nichols had an escape plan in his jail cell.

More now from reporter Dale Cardwell of our affiliate station, WSB.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SHERIFF MYRON FREEMAN, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: Obviously there was something that happened here that was wrong.

DALE CARDWELL, WSB CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the very first time since Brian Nichols' assault, the Fulton County sheriff discusses what went wrong.

FREEMAN: We've had extra security in the courtroom. We've got our SWAT team escorting high profile inmates now. We separate them from the general population.

CARDWELL: The problems exploded early March 11. Three deputies were assigned to this monitoring room. But no one saw Brian Nichols escape because two of the three were gone.

CHIEF DEPUTY MICHAEL COOKE, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: One of the officers who was assigned in central control to assist monitoring had left to go to one of his courtroom assignments, to the courtroom assignment. Another individual who was assigned in there was sent on an errand, frankly.

CARDWELL: To get breakfast for their captain, Shalisha Lee (ph). But why was Cynthia Hall alone with Brian Nichols after the judge asked for more security?

COOKE: It is not unusual for any deputy sheriff, female, male, to escort an inmate, regardless of their classification -- murderer, rapist, armed robbery, aggrieved assault. That's their job. It's a deadly job. It's dangerous. QUESTION: In retrospect, chief, was that a mistake?

COOKE: It was not a mistake. It was a policy issue. Certainly we're going to look at policy to see if we need to change it.

CARDWELL (voice-over): But this could be the biggest mistake of them all.

FREEMAN: Well, there's three pieces of paper. It has names on them, but I don't know where they were found.

CARDWELL: But the chief knows what they are -- escape plans hidden in Brian Nichols' cell that could have been discovered two days before the shooting, when deputies found these weapons in Brian Nichols' shoes. But Brian Nichols' cell was never searched.

COOKE: I mean, you hate to speculate. Let me tell you, Dale, contraband is found on inmates daily. It's part of the job. Does finding contraband on an individual immediately require that we shake down their cell? No, it does not.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COSTELLO: Dale Cardwell reporting for us.

The Fulton County sheriff says it's too soon to say if anyone will be fired over the handling of events leading up to that courthouse shooting.

They're the largest carnivores on land, but their existence now being threatened by warming temperatures and thinning ice. Ahead, polar bears fight for food as their environment melts away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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