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NANCY GRACE

16-Year-Old Girl on Trial for Allegedly Murdering Mom, Dad; Interview With Missing Woman`s Aunt, CNNHN

Aired February 21, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, Sweet Sixteen and never been kissed. Well, that`s certainly not the case in a Bellevue, Idaho, town. A 16-year- old girl on trial in adult court facing two consecutive life sentences -- that`s one after the next -- for the murder of her mom and dad.
Why? Prosecutors say she was boy-crazy, obsessed with an older teen, and her parents disapproved. They say, instead of sulking in her room with the door shut, she wracked a Winchester on her parents.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

You know, most 16-year-olds worry about getting their driver`s license or going to the prom that night. Not Sarah Johnson.

A case of puppy love turned to obsession. And when mother and father disapproved, 46-year-old Alan Johnson and his wife, 52-year-old Diane, were shot dead in the master bedroom.

Before we go live to Idaho for the Sarah Johnson case, let`s go straight to Ft. Worth, Texas.

Breaking news tonight: A pregnant Ft. Worth mother and her 7-year-old boy went missing two days ago. Lisa Underwood didn`t show up for a baby shower in her honor this Saturday afternoon. Well, police reported they found a pool of blood in her living room. No sign of either mother or son.

Underwood`s blue Dodge Durango was discovered just a few hours ago, partially submerged in South Hickory Creek on the southwest edge of Denton, Texas. Here`s the latest.

I`m waiting to go to a press right now. Before we can go there -- OK, here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GENE JONES, POLICE OFFICER: And as the report stated, there was a significant amount of blood inside the home. But we`re not prepared to make any definitive statements or draw any conclusions about what occurred inside the home. That`s the purpose of this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

That was local police officer Lieutenant Gene Jones.

Right now, two very special guests are joining us. Lisa Underwood`s aunt is with us speaking out tonight for the first time, obviously distraught over the disappearance of her niece. Also with us, victims` rights advocate and crime victim Marc Klaas. He`s the father of Polly Klaas who went missing and was discovered murdered many years ago, tireless victims` rights advocate.

Let`s go straight out to Marla Hess.

Ma`am, thank you for being with us. I know this is the first time you have spoken publicly. Tell me, what are they doing tonight, Miss Hess, to find your niece?

MARLA HESS, AUNT OF MISSING PREGNANT WOMAN: Thank you very much.

As you know, they found Lisa`s vehicle, and they are doing everything possible. The Ft. Worth detectives and police department are working relentlessly. They have been working around the clock.

We have got people searching. There are teams of dogs, of course, helicopters in the area where her vehicle was found, cadets and police officers on horseback. They seem to be doing everything possible.

GRACE: Miss Hess, who would want to hurt a seven-month pregnant lady like Lisa?

HESS: Of course, we can`t fathom that. We have no idea.

She was -- she is a very wonderful mother, successful businesswoman. We don`t know of anybody, as far as customers and things of that nature, that -- and I have been asked that question -- that might have a reason to. She is seven-months pregnant. She`s a single mother.

GRACE: What are police telling you, Miss Hess?

HESS: They are telling us everything they know. Of course, we were in the house. I was in the house when we found the blood. They are processing that now as we speak. They are not sure exactly whose it is.

But, obviously, there`s a crime scene. Something`s wrong. I know in my heart the two are together, obviously.

They have people of interest and that, you know, involves several people, but they really -- they do believe, of course, that it was an abduction, that there was at least one or more people involved.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, a very similar and disturbing thing happened to you when police knocked on your door to tell you Polly was missing. What should police be doing right now? Time is crucial. Tell me why.

MARC KLAAS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, children that are kidnapped can disappear at the rate of mile a minute which is what make this kind of problematic because the Amber Alert was issued on a Saturday night. They found the car about 45 miles from the Oklahoma border, yet it wasn`t expanded into the other states for another 24 hours.

So one certainly wishes that they had moved in that direction a lot more quickly. But other than that, it sounds like law enforcement is doing exactly what they should be doing. They will start the investigation looking inward, the people closest to Lisa. And then they will just expand it to the ultimate scenario which would be a stranger scenario, which I don`t imagine anybody is really considering yet.

GRACE: And Marc, you being the father of little Polly, immediately you were the suspect. You insisted on a polygraph. You opened up your home, cars, your other vehicles, everything to search, in order for them to move on to the real suspect later convicted.

I heard Marla say, Marla Hess, Lisa`s aunt, that there are people of interest. That`s not unusual. It could be a boyfriend, an ex-husband, the neighbor. Those are the first people of interest. Police always check out those closest to the kidnapped victim. That doesn`t necessarily mean they are involved in any way.

Marla Hess, how close were you to Lisa?

HESS: I was very close. I helped raise Lisa. She has lived with me off and on. We`re very close.

GRACE: Would she have, under any circumstances, just taken off like this?

HESS: No, she would not. Her baby shower was scheduled. I talked with her Friday as I was en route to Dallas. I talked to her on the phone.

I offered to stay with her that night as opposed to her mother in Dallas. And I offered to bring food by. She told me it wasn`t necessary. She had been sick, but she was feeling better. She knew it was more convenient for me to go to her mother`s home as opposed to hers.

GRACE: Marla, what was unusual, if anything, about the home?

HESS: Neither one of them had their coats on, which would have been appropriate for that evening or that day. Jayden had no shoes on.

GRACE: Because his little favorite shoes were there.

HESS: Yes, they were. They were on the mantle.

GRACE: And you know, Marc Klaas, you cannot underestimate how important these clues are. Look, if somebody sees my cowboy boots and I`m not in them, go looking. Clues like that matter, Marc.

KLAAS: Well, in fact, if your cat is supposed to be in on Friday night and the cat`s out on Friday night, that also is another clue that they would want to look at.

But let`s be really clear, Nancy. This is a grown woman in her 30s. She`s probably extremely upset. She is not going to go easily any place. And I think the public should be on the look-out for any kind of a disturbance in a vehicle or any woman that absolutely looks like she is not where she would be.

GRACE: Marc, let me ask my producer, Liz, but can you put that still up again? Everybody, take a look at this lady. Lisa Underwood, her boy just seven years old. Look at that. Look at that little face. They are out there somewhere tonight.

Marla, is there anything else that you can tell us tonight?

HESS: No, there is not. I appreciate so much everything that everyone`s done. I just want anyone all over the United States -- because, again, we haven`t found them, only the vehicle -- just not to discount anything they think or might have seen. Don`t think it`s a long shot. Just, please, call law enforcement, please.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, final thought?

KLAAS: My final thought would be for the family never to give up hope, to fully cooperate with law enforcement. Don`t let the lawyers get involved.

And finally, congratulations, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you, friend. Under other circumstances, I would be elated.

Marla Hess, thank you for speaking to us tonight.

Everyone, if you have any information regarding -- one more time, Elizabeth, if you can put up Lisa Underwood and her son, Jayden. There you go. Last seen, Ft. Worth, Texas, age 34. And remember, Lisa Underwood is seven-months pregnant. She is not traveling in her own car, a blue Dodge Durango. They were missing from the car when the car was found, an SUV.

Take a look. Any information, call your local 911 immediately regarding an Amber Alert. Marla Hess, Marc Klaas, thank you.

HESS: Thank you very much.

KLAAS: Thank you.

GRACE: Our prayers are with you, Miss Hess.

If you are a crime victim, if you know of an injustice or a case that needs some spotlight, call us, 1-888-GRACE-01, 888-472-2301. Or e-mail me, nancygrace@cnn.com. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She goes into the bedroom, presses the muzzle of the .264 weapon against her mother`s head, pulls the trigger. Obviously shocked, she has to go around the foot of the bed. Her father hears the gun go off and starts to get out of the shower and is encountered by his 16-year-old daughter holding a rifle on him. And she pulls the trigger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: When I was 16 years old, my biggest worry was trying to drive the car down the middle of the street. This girl, Sarah Johnson, 16 years old, is facing double-murder charges. She is looking right down the wrong end of the barrel of two consecutive life sentences in a beautiful little town in Idaho.

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Let`s go straight out to Boise, Idaho. Standing by is this young girl`s defense attorney, Bob Pangburn.

Bob, what`s your defense?

BOB PANGBURN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR SARAH JOHNSON: Our defense is that Sara simply didn`t do it and the science will prove it.

GRACE: Well, OK, speaking of science, on her pink house robe, on your client`s pink house robe, she admits it`s hers, covered in her mother`s blood. In the pocket, a latex glove linked to her through DNA and five .25 caliber bullets. Explain.

PANGBURN: Well, the simple answer is the robe is not covered with blood. And I know the prosecution has made the argument that the shooter wore the robe. The fact is -- and anybody who has watched this trial at all so far -- has seen witness, after witness, after witness say, "This girl had no blood on her." No blood on her means she didn`t shoot them.

GRACE: OK. So the intruder had to come in, put on your client`s house robe, and go commit murder? Help me.

PANGBURN: The science will say -- our scientists are going to say that the shooter was not wearing the robe, that the robe may have been in the room. It may have been worn by another person.

Another thing that`s become a clear fact of this case, two guns. Two guns, two killers.

GRACE: OK, well...

PANGBURN: The state has repeatedly -- repeatedly -- tried to show this as a young girl who was meticulous to the point of leaving fingerprints nowhere, and yet they say that she went over to the guesthouse, got one gun with the wrong bullets, came back, and left it on the freezer.

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Bob Pangburn.

Everybody, Bob is a veteran defense attorney in his jurisdiction. He knows his way around a courtroom. He`s won a lot of cases.

But listen, buddy, you got the rock and the hard spot defense on this one. Take a listen to this people, if you`re wondering what could the motivation be...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER MOSS, FORENSIC ANALYST, ORCHID CELLMARK: The DNA profile obtained from blood stain number four from the pink robe is a mixture of at least two individuals. The major DNA profile is consistent with Diane. Sarah Johnson is included as being a potential contributor to this mixture. Alan Johnson cannot be excluded as being a potential contributor to this mixture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, I thought I was going to show you something about motivation. Instead, I showed you something about DNA.

But very quickly, Bob Pangburn, I`m going to give it another try. Take a listen to this as to motivation.

(AUDIO GAP)

... the crime scene -- Elizabeth, you`re fired.

I`m trying to show you a sound bite from the trial that indicates that your client, Bob, was totally obsessed with a 19-year-old illegal alien that had been arrested for methamphetamine, OK?

Now, Bob, you and I know that the parents had threatened to turn him in on statutory rape charges that morning. Then this intruder comes. You know, I am going to throw this to Lisa Pinto.

Lisa, help me out.

LISA PINTO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you know this mystery man that Bob`s creating for us, Nancy -- first of all, I would like to know where his name is and why none of his DNA, none of his blood is on the bathrobe, on the latex gloves, on the leather glove, the matching glove of which was in the defendant`s bedroom.

And, you know, gee, maybe that explains why there were no fingerprints. Plus, you take the fact this is a girl who had been sulking all weekend, Nancy, about the fact that she had been split from the love of her life, that he was going to be deported, thrown in jail for having sex with her. And she sat in the guest room and stewed. And she had access to a weapon, to a gun, which this mystery man defendant that Bob tells us about, who I don`t even know exists, I don`t know where he got hold of the murder weapon, Nancy.

GRACE: Yes. Bob, if your person, Sarah Johnson, 16 years old, didn`t do the deed, who do you think possible could have? I know that`s not your job, Bob, but the jury is going to be wondering, if not her, who?

PANGBURN: Well, we have our supposition as to who. Obviously, you pointed to the person who has the greatest motive to do it. That`s the boyfriend. And when you talk about DNA, this last week, the state...

GRACE: I thought he had an alibi. I thought he had an airtight alibi.

PANGBURN: Far from airtight. Last weekend, the state`s own DNA people identified, or agreed with us, that there was stray DNA on the weapon.

GRACE: Well, does it match him?

PANGBURN: There are stray fingerprints...

GRACE: Does it match him?

PANGBURN: ... on the scope that was taken up.

GRACE: Bob, does it match him?

PANGBURN: It does not match him. It does not match him, but it certainly...

GRACE: Well, then how the heck is he your lead suspect if nothing matches him?

PINTO: His family says...

PANGBURN: You don`t have to -- you could be the ramrod and have a couple other people helping you out. There`s too many stray fingerprints and stray DNA here.

GRACE: Oh, it`s a conspiracy. Oh, how I love a conspiracy.

Bob Pangburn, don`t leave yet. I`m not through barbecuing you.

Everybody, we`ll be right back. Bob Pangburn is representing Sarah Johnson, a 16-year-old girl. We may be laughing right now, but this girl is charged with the murder of her parents. She is looking at two consecutive life sentences.

Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Sarah ever say anything about Bruno being involved in the murders?

MEGAN SOWERSBY, SARAH JOHNSON`S FRIEND: She had said that he couldn`t be involved with the murder because he had an alibi and that the DNA tests that they took had came back negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what day was this that she told you that?

SOWERSBY: On Tuesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the day of the murders?

SOWERSBY: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

We are highlighting two cases. One, the case of Lisa Underwood, she and her son, Jayden, seven years old, went missing. They have been gone now two days. We`ll show you their pictures later on in the show to see if maybe you have seen them and can help us.

Also, a case out of Idaho, a 16-year-old girl on trial for the murder of her own parents. Here in the studio with me, forensic psychologist Dr. Michael Nuccitelli.

Doctor, paracide, which is also known in the slang mode, parenticide, very rare.

DR. MICHAEL NUCCITELLI, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it`s actually not that rare. I mean, if you...

GRACE: You know, when I was growing up, I didn`t know a single soul that murdered their parents.

NUCCITELLI: Well, at that time...

GRACE: I beg your pardon.

NUCCITELLI: ... and obviously, you are very young, but, as I was saying...

GRACE: Woah.

NUCCITELLI: ... there`s not a lot of official research. But what they are saying is, is that, from my research, is that approximately 2 percent of all homicides is paracide, which is the murder of two parents.

GRACE: OK. Reality check, 2 percent is not that much out of 100 percent.

NUCCITELLI: Well, if you are the grandparents of Mr. Pittman, and you are the parents of this particular case, you would tend to look at it very differently.

GRACE: Yes. You know, I`m glad you mentioned Christopher Pittman. Remember Christopher Pittman, everybody? The 12-year-old that was tried in South Carolina two weeks ago. It was the Zoloft case. The kid had been taking Zoloft.

Elizabeth, do we have a still or any shots of Christopher Pittman? The deal with Christopher Pittman, Dr. Nuccitelli, I got where the defense was going. That kid was way whacked out on Zoloft.

But this girl -- no offense, Bob Pangburn -- she`s the devil seed. Your parents don`t like your boyfriend, shoot them? That`s what the prosecution is saying.

NUCCITELLI: As a forensic psychologist, when you say the devil seed, you would be going on saying that she is either suffer from a severe bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, or even possibly the burgeoning of a young sociopath.

One of the things that I would like to ask Bob is that, has his defendant, has his client, ever been on any psychotropic medication?

GRACE: Oh, good question.

Has she, Bob?

NUCCITELLI: Do we have any psychiatric history? Any...

GRACE: Bob?

PANGBURN: Sarah has no psychiatric history whatsoever. She is a good kid. She is a volleyball player. She`s playing basketball with her dad. She loved her dad. She loved her mom, too, but she was a daddy`s girl.

GRACE: And she was a pretty good skeet shooter, too.

PANGBURN: That evidence is not going to come out because it didn`t happen. That`s another one of the concoctions of the state.

GRACE: OK, well, we`re not in the courtroom. But is it true? Wasn`t she a good skeet shooter?

PANGBURN: Absolutely not.

PINTO: Her father was a champion shot, Bob. Her father was clearly a champion shot. It wouldn`t be a far stretch to imagine that she learned how to shoot she was such a daddy`s girl. Can you explain how she got the bruise on her shoulder coincidentally the day that her parents were shot with a rifle? I mean, I don`t know who else has that bruise.

GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I`m going to go to Chris Pixley.

Chris Pixley, now listen. You and I have gone round and round about a lot of cases. Everybody, Chris Pixley, lawyer out of Atlanta. What are you going to do about this DNA, Chris, if you were in Bob`s shoes?

CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, well, obviously, in this case, Nancy, you know as I well as I do, Bob has got to attack the science here. The DNA is a problem, but obviously there are questions about the crime scene itself. In particular, the fact that you do have this robe...

GRACE: Yes. Who put on that pink bathrobe? That`s the big question for me tonight.

PIXLEY: Well, you know, take a look at the bathrobe. And I have no idea what Bob`s arguments are going to be about the bathrobe. But when you read the reports, right now it says that the bathrobe has blood on the front and the back. If the shooter is supposedly Sarah Johnson, she is facing her victims as she pulls the trigger. How does blood get on the back of the robe? That raises the question of whether this crime scene does, in fact, have contamination. It`s a difficult question -- difficult argument to make.

GRACE: I`ve got a scenario I`d like to run by you two veteran criminal defense attorneys. If you wanted to hide your body and your clothing from blood spatter, from a high powered Winchester, what about the theory that Sarah Johnson put her arms into the robe with the front covering her and the splatter came on the front?

She then took the robe off, stuck the latex glove, which has her DNA on it and the extra rounds, went and put them in the trash as she ran from the house from the killer.

What about that, Bob?

PANGBURN: The fact is, there`s just not enough spatter on this robe to show that the shooter was wearing it. It`s just not on there. There`s no blood whatsoever on her. And there`s not enough on the robe to indicate the robe was worn.

GRACE: OK, I know there`s no blood on her.

But still, Lisa, aren`t they in a heap of trouble in the sense that the real perpetrator would have to come in, put the girl`s robe on, commit the shooting.

PINTO: Wear the gloves.

GRACE: Whoever had the robe on had it on this way, had it on backwards. They had to.

PINTO: Or they covered something -- had something else covering their body or the sheet covering...

GRACE: I am hearing in my ear, I have got to go to a quick break.

Everybody, as we go to break, and we`ll all be right back, we here at NANCY GRACE want desperately to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, as you know, Lisa Underwood and her little boy, Jayden, missing near Ft. Worth, Texas. Amber Alert issued for Lisa and Jayden Saturday. A few hours ago, her SUV, her Durango, found in a creek in Denton, Texas. If you have seen, heard anything that could help, please call your local police with the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: I`m Thomas Roberts with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

President Bush is on a five-day European trip to try and patch up relations with leaders who opposed the Iraq war. First off was a private dinner with French President Jacques Chirac. Both leaders come out of it saying the two nations have an excellent relationship.

Three people trapped by ten feet of mud just outside of Los Angeles are free. The mudslide that covered their town homes was caused by storms that are blamed for three other deaths.

Gas prices have dropped half a penny in the past two weeks. A Lundberg Survey puts the average for unleaded at a $1.80. Prices should rise, though, before summer.

The Big Apple is making a big push for the 2012 Olympic Games. International Olympic Committee delegates are touring New York. The competition: Madrid, Moscow, London and Paris. A decision is expected to be made in July.

NANCY GRACE continues next. That`s the latest for right now. I`m Thomas Roberts.

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight.

We`re talking about an Idaho case where a 16-year-old girl is facing double-murder charges. And listen, this is not some renegade. She didn`t belong to a gang, didn`t shoplift, didn`t do drugs. She played on the school volleyball team, had pretty good grades, got along with her parents until, enter boyfriend, Bruno Santos.

And why weren`t her parents happy? He`s a 19-year-old high school drop-out, illegal alien, uh-oh, caught a methamphetamine charge. OK, that`s why the parents were upset. That`s why they tried to cut off the relationship. They threatened to charge him with statutory rape the morning they were killed.

PIXLEY: And going after 16-year-old girls. What a jerk.

GRACE: OK, I`m hearing a voice out of the blue. I think that was Bob Pangburn.

And you know, this guy is the perfect guy -- yes, we can hear you, Bob, the microphone. Hey, Bob, you are right. He`s a jerk. So two plus two equals five. Let`s blame him.

Let me guess, are you going to point the finger at Bruno Santos?

PANGBURN: Well, as you know, first of all, it wasn`t me who said he was a jerk, though I certainly agree. And I agree that he is the person who had the greatest motive. He`s the one who was facing prison time, not her. You know, this world is filled with 16-year-old girls with boyfriends their folks don`t like. That doesn`t make them killers. Sarah didn`t do this.

PINTO: Bob, it`s so interesting, because when your client right at the time of the incident, and there was a 911 call, where your client is already fingering the ex-maid as the perpetrator of these events. So maybe the two of you need to get your stories straight. She was convinced it was the housekeeper who was caught stealing, and that`s what she told the neighbor...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And caught stealing what? A pot of face cream.

Bob, that is not a motive for murder, I don`t think. But, hey, you know what? Another thing though I think the jury is going to be concerned with is her lack of remorse.

Elizabeth, can you play the manicurist?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present when she got her nails done?

LINDA VAVOLD, SARAH JOHNSON`S AUNT: Yes, I was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hear her say anything while she was getting her nails done?

L. VAVOLD: I overheard her tell Kenya (ph) that she just wanted to get on with her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Now, Bob, correct me if I`m wrong. But was that your client talking the day before the funeral? She was getting her nails done saying she wanted to get on with her life? I want to be wrong this time. Please correct me.

PANGBURN: Well, the voice that you heard there, the person that you saw...

GRACE: That was the aunt.

PANGBURN: That`s the aunt.

GRACE: Right.

PANGBURN: The aunt -- this is another thing that`s made this a horrifying case from a lot of perspectives. And that is that her family has wholly abandoned her right from the get go. From day one, her family has abandoned her.

GRACE: But, Bob, the question is, did she say that to the manicurist?

PANGBURN: I suspect she did say she wanted to get on with her life. And I think that wanting to get on with her life was a reasonable thing to be saying.

GRACE: That hurt. That hurt. I need a shrink. Help me here.

NUCCITELLI: Well, to support Bob right here, there`s basically -- after there`s a traumatic event...

GRACE: You, out. OK, you`re leaving. Good-bye.

NUCCITELLI: OK, I`m sorry, it`s...

GRACE: Take out the trash, Elizabeth.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Her parents are dead, and she is getting her nails done. Did she get a pedicure, too, Bob? Did she?

NUCCITELLI: It`s a term called psychic numbing. And it occurs whether an individual has committed a murder or they are suffering from a traumatic event.

And what happens is, is after the murder, whether they committed the murder or they are the victim -- or in this case, Bob believes she didn`t commit the murder -- it is very possible that Sarah was going through a period of what`s called psychic numbing.

One of the other events that we could talk about is at the evening of the funeral, what did she want to do? She wanted to go to a volleyball game. Well, not in every incident does it indicate that...

GRACE: You know what? I`m glad you jogged my memory, because I didn`t remember that.

I didn`t know she was such a devoted volleyball enthusiast, Bob. She wanted to go to a volleyball game -- did you say the evening of the funeral?

NUCCITELLI: I believe so.

GRACE: Is that true, Bob?

PANGBURN: What do you want her to -- you know, the question I have for everybody in this case is, what is appropriate grieving for a 16-year- old?

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I think you`ve actually got a point there. I think you do have a point there.

In conjunction with what Doctor Nuccitelli has told us, Chris Pixley, every time somebody catches a murder charge, the defense always says there`s no playbook for grief. How many times have we heard it? The reality is, that is true.

But, Chris, please, a manicure the day before the funeral, stating, "I want to get on with my life?" What life? You are only 16. You don`t even have a life.

PIXLEY: First of all, we have got to make sure that we have got the evidence right. I think that the manicure actually was the day before the murders and this testimony about wanting to get on with her life...

GRACE: No, I heard that, too, Chris. But it was the day before the funeral. There was confusion about that. It was the day before the funeral. She didn`t want to chip her nail the next day.

PIXLEY: But the problem that I have, Nancy, you know, as a country we applaud people like Jackie Kennedy for stoicism when JFK`s murdered. We applaud Nancy Reagan last year for her poise when Ronald Reagan is murdered. We have all of these examples of the stiff upper lip, but when somebody is accused of having murdered a loved one, we call it suspicious when they don`t show enough grief.

And of course, now, after the fact, she has been crying in trial. Of course, her life`s exposed. We`re attacking her from all sides. The prosecution has done its case, and she now is talking about this relationship she had and how she was caught in the relationship. Now she`s crying and we say too many tears.

You know, this is the kind of thing that amounts to nothing. It`s not evidence of anything, Nancy.

PINTO: Chris, the former first ladies were not gloating over the insurance settlements that they were going to get at the demise of their husbands.

PIXLEY: Are you talking about the inmates? Are you talking -- are you talking about the jail house informants, Lisa?

PINTO: I am talking about the fact that she was going to buy her boyfriend a house.

PIXLEY: I mean, how many -- these guys are just a dime a dozen. Jail house informants are worthless, OK? And if prosecution is going to be putting in jail house informants to talk about how she was -- she`s been giving confessions in jail, it`s absolutely nonsense.

GRACE: Hey, guys, hold on just a moment. Chris, Chris, I`m switching gears.

I want to find out from Bob Pangburn, the defense attorney in this case -- Bob, apparently the parents said just before their murders to a family friend, "I`ve got to talk to you about Sarah. We`re losing control. I don`t know what is going on." Did that come before the jury?

PANGBURN: No, it didn`t. And it`s not true. The aunt comes in and testified this last week about the punishment that was meted out to Sarah. She was placed...

GRACE: OK, for some reason I can`t hear Bob.

Very quickly, I wanted to speak to you before we go to break as we try to reconnect with Bob Pangburn about the staging, the staging of the scene. What was odd about the scene of the murders?

PINTO: Well, I think the fact that this mother, that she`d had constant fights with, that this woman was shot in the face. I mean, to me, you don`t have to be a psychiatrist to see that that displays a lot of anger. And the fact that the father...

GRACE: The mom was asleep.

PINTO: And the mom was asleep with a sheet over her. And she just blew her away in cold blood, I mean, it`s alleged by the prosecution.

And then you take the fact that there was a cartridge, a shell cartridge, in her bedroom which had the mother`s DNA on it. I mean, all these things -- whoever this gangster was, Bob, must have done a pretty good job framing your client because it all points towards her.

GRACE: Another issue, Chris Pixley, before we go to break, is the forensics on -- this is what`ll nail you. Forget about inappropriate behavior at the funeral the day before. What you said to the manicurist doesn`t matter. You can explain that away as a good defense attorney, all right. Get a shrink like Nuccitelli, you are home free, OK?

Here`s the rub. The evidence, the forensic evidence, doesn`t match her story. Remember, Chris, she said, "I thought I heard a gunshot in a dream. Then I heard another one. I went to my mom and dad`s bedroom door. I didn`t open it. They didn`t answer. I took off running."

But, brain matter and blood from the mom, from blow back from the shooting, was on her wall. That`s how far the blood and physical matter blew at the time of the shooting.

See, that doesn`t match with a closed door, Chris. That`s the problem the defense has.

PIXLEY: Absolutely, Nancy. I think, you know, some of the most damning evidence right now in this case is the blood evidence. But there are also, obviously, some major questions about the fingerprint evidence, fingerprints of other people on the gun, fingerprints of other people on the shell casings and elsewhere that do not match any of the suspects.

GRACE: Chris...

PIXLEY: And that`s, I think, one of the issues that will counter the DNA problem.

GRACE: Chris, somebody had to go in the house, put on this girl`s pink bathrobe and commit hara-kiri.

Chris, did you do it? Did you go in the house, put on the pink -- it`s ridiculous. Of course, you didn`t. Who else would go in and put on this girl`s bathrobe and commit murder?

PIXLEY: Where I would agree with you is I think that it becomes a very difficult argument for the defense to make that Bruno Santos is involved in this unless he has made the decision that he is going to sacrifice his girlfriend. But if somebody did, in fact, put on the bathrobe...

(CROSSTALK)

PIXLEY: ... and let gunshot residue get on to the bathrobe then, obviously, there`s...

GRACE: You had me for a minute, Chris. But Bruno Santos, the boyfriend, came back voluntarily to testify in this case. Believe me, if it was him that did the deed, you are sure not going to catch him back in America sitting down in a courtroom.

Chris, I`ll let you argue with me in a moment. All-star panel lined up. More on Lisa Underwood when we get back. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the days following the murders of Alan and Diane, what was Sarah`s demeanor like?

L. VAVOLD: She seemed -- it seemed inappropriate, some of her behavior. When we would be discussing Diane and Alan, and someone would be upset, she would roll her eyes and act disgusted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has Sarah ever apologized to you for the events that had happened?

JAMES VAVOLD, SARAH JOHNSON`S UNCLE: Yes, when we were up at Richards (ph), I believe it was, after she came back from the hospital, she kept saying, you know, I`m sorry to put you guys through this, which I didn`t understand. I mean, I said, "You know, you are not putting us through anything. We have no idea who killed them or anything like that."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she said she was sorry she put you through this.

J. VAVOLD: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

We`re talking about Sarah Johnson, a 16-year-old girl on trial for double murder, the murder of her mother and father. According to prosecutors, she was crazy in love with a 19-year-old illegal immigrant. Parents disapproved, she shot them, according to them, the morning the parents were going to report the boyfriend, 19, for statutory rape.

Again to forensic psychologist Dr. Michael Nuccitelli. Doctor, take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Alan went and picked up Sarah that morning, did you observe how Sarah was acting?

L. VAVOLD: She was quiet and angry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Sarah in trouble that weekend because of that?

L. VAVOLD: Yes. She had been grounded, and her car was going to be taken away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She was grounded, and her car was going to be taken away. OK. I`m getting a picture. She had a car at age 16. Her parents had a guesthouse...

PIXLEY: Right.

GRACE: ... where she went and sulked all -- I guess it Labor Day weekend. Wouldn`t come out, doing her homework. I think her homework may have been hatching up a plan, laying an egg of a murder plan out there in the guesthouse. I`m getting a picture of rich parents giving her a car. They`ve got a guesthouse, had everything she wanted, until Bruno Santos came along.

PIXLEY: If prosecution is correct and she did commit this murder because she is obsessed, well, from a psychological standpoint, this would be an obsession to the exponential most 15th degree. This would be an individual...

GRACE: Woah, woah, woah, woah, hold on. I`m a lawyer, not a mathematician. What?

PIXLEY: Well, the basic assumption would be is that she took the weekend and she made a conscientious decision that she was going to stop her parents...

GRACE: A conscious decision to stop the parents...

PIXLEY: ... from, you know, filing statutory rape charges. Because, in her mind, she was engaged to this young man. And she was going to live eternity with him. And no one, including her parents, were going to stop her.

GRACE: Lisa?

PINTO: You call that premeditation, Nancy, right? That`s first- degree murder.

GRACE: We call it premeditation.

OK, I`m going to give bob Pangburn a chance to hop back in.

Bob, she was going to be grounded and her car taken away temporarily. You know, I have got to agree with you. That doesn`t sound like motive for murder. Your problem is the DNA evidence. I`m still hung up on that pink housecoat, who would come in and put that on.

So, Bob, when you finally bring it to a jury, what`s your theory? Is it going to be blaming the boyfriend?

PANGBURN: Our theory is quite simply no blood. It reminds me of the old hamburger chain ad. Where`s the beef? Where`s the blood? She has no blood on her.

GRACE: Well, wasn`t her DNA on the latex gloves?

PANGBURN: And the state`s own witness testified...

GRACE: Was that a yes?

PANGBURN: ... that he thought the glove had been worn before.

GRACE: Was that a yes? Her DNA was on the latex gloves?

PANGBURN: The girl`s in her house.

GRACE: You`ve got a point there.

PANGBURN: She lives there.

GRACE: She lived there. But the latex glove with her DNA, why would a woman go around with a latex glove and a bloody house robe? Now, I`m getting a disconnect, Bob. Why the latex glove with her DNA on it in the bloody housecoat, thrown in the trash before cops could get there?

PANGBURN: Anybody who was going to plan this to the level that the state has got to show that she planned it, her fingerprints are nowhere. Why does she, after doing all this great planning, leave a gun, a second gun, in the garage, and then put the robe with the couple of gloves out in the trash where anybody could find them. It just doesn`t match up. The state would have you believe some facts but disbelieve others. They want to believe the science on one hand and not on the other.

GRACE: Maybe she screwed up. Maybe she screwed up. She was in a little bit of a hurry. The neighbors say they heard blood-curdling screams, then a young girl`s voice, and then she came to their door.

Hey, Chris Pixley, question to you regarding the DNA. Any innocent explanation, latex gloves, her DNA in it, in the housecoat?

PIXLEY: Yes, well, you know, the question becomes, what kind of DNA are we talking about, Nancy? And of course, to find her DNA in a latex glove if she wasn`t bleeding means that we are dealing with mitochondrial DNA, not nuclear DNA. That testing is fraught with problems. It is extremely sensitive. And if the evidence is damaged in any way, it can be inaccurate.

GRACE: OK, I get it. I get it. I get it. You are going to say the testing was wrong.

Here`s my last question to you, Chris, before we go to break. There was staging at the scene. This girl loved to read mystery books, loved mystery books. That`s a given. We know that.

And in the home at the murder scene, two knives had been pointed together, points together in place, I think, at the end of the bed. Another knife, no blood on it or nothing, laid out conspicuously on another bed. Staging, staging of a crime scene, Chris. Ringing a bell?

PIXLEY: Yes. It also sounds like the act of somebody who is extremely angry about what`s gone on here, that`s extremely angry leading up to this crime.

I don`t know that somebody who has got, you know, these two days in the guesthouse to think about it is really going to premeditate a crime of this kind against their own parents. I think you made a great point in the beginning here.

The number of kids that actually kill their parents -- there`s a reason we`re talking about this case, Nancy. You know, if it`s so open and shut, we wouldn`t be talking about it. Murders occur everyday. The reason we`re talking about it is kids don`t kill their parents.

GRACE: Hold on. Lisa?

PINTO: Why did she have a dream? She tells her aunt that she had a dream that she saw her parents, her father with his chest blocked out, his mother with the face blocked out. And the father said, "You can`t hurt me now." That is how I would...

(CROSSTALK)

PIXLEY: Yes, and the part you`re cutting out of that conversation, apparently she said that she wanted to hug her father but she was afraid she would hurt him by hugging him. And he said, "Don`t worry, dear, you can`t hurt me now." So let`s get the whole context of the conversation out there.

GRACE: Chris, beautifully put. Good luck in closing statements on this case.

Bob Pangburn, you have got your work cut out for you.

Everybody, when we come back, some of you will head to local news. For the rest of you, we`ll be right here.

And, remember, I`m going to bring you live coverage of the Sarah Johnson trial tomorrow, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "CLOSING ARGUMENTS." Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you indeed find lead antimony barium, which is confirmed gunshot residue, on that robe?

WILLIAM CHAPIN, EVIDENCE EXAMINER: Yes, we did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you find...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: While Sarah Johnson, 16 years old, told her manicurist she wanted to get on with her life, this is what a jury in Idaho saw. Sarah Johnson, facing two consecutive life sentences for the brutal shooting death of her parents shortly after they told her the romance was off with a 19-year-old illegal immigrant with a drug arrest.

Very quickly. Final thoughts, Bob?

PANGBURN: Well, we`re going to start our defense, it looks like, a week from today. It will be based on solid science. And I think that people ought to pay attention and hang on to their boots, because we`re going to give them a show.

GRACE: Bob, when you say you are going to give the jury a show, will Sarah Johnson be part of that show? Will your client take the stand?

PANGBURN: It`s too early to say. She might.

GRACE: Well, you are kicking off your defense case in a couple of days. When are you going to decide?

PANGBURN: Well, at this point, we haven`t found a good reason to put her on. This case is based on science. We`re going to start this case with doing a re-enactment of the shooting. Of course, we`re going to have to use substitute items to do that, but we will show quite clearly where blood in this case went everywhere and would had to have gone all over the killer in this case.

GRACE: Bob, did your client ever take...

PANGBURN: No blood on Sarah.

GRACE: Did your client take a polygraph?

PANGBURN: She was never offered a polygraph.

GRACE: So, no?

PANGBURN: Correct.

GRACE: OK. Bob Pangburn is a veteran criminal defense attorney. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

PANGBURN: Thank you.

GRACE: One of the reasons I have taken this case so seriously is the thought of parenticide, the thought of killing your parents, your mother and your father. Just want to introduce to you the reason I feel that way here.

On the set with me -- just took her glasses off -- my mom is here with me. And the thought -- when you think of this case and this girl facing life behind bars for the murder of her parents, the thought of putting a gun to the head of her parents is shocking to a jury. We`ll wait for them to come up with the right answer.

As I go to break, very quickly, I want to give you a shot of Lisa Underwood one more time.

Elizabeth, can we put that up? Lisa Underwood, her son, Jayden Underwood. Please take a look.

I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Thanks for being with us, inviting us into your homes.

Coming up, the latest headlines from around the world. I`ll see you here tomorrow night at 8 o`clock Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END