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CNN NEWSNIGHT AARON BROWN

Army Reveals Tillman Was Killed by Friendly Fire; U.S. Consulate in Jeddah Attacked

Aired December 6, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
We begin tonight with a soldier's story, not just any soldier in this case, of course, but a soldier who achieved considerable fame both in his life before the Army and in his death in Afghanistan as an Army Ranger.

It's fair to say in the months after 9/11 Pat Tillman became the Army's most famous volunteer in the war on terror. A former pro football player, Mr. Tillman walked away from more than $3 million to fight for his country.

How he died and whether the military intentionally distorted his death for its own reasons are two of the many questions on the table tonight. These questions reported in some detail over the last couple of days by "The Washington Post" do nothing to change the most essential fact. Pat Tillman didn't have to go to Afghanistan. He chose to do that and regardless of the facts of his death we should all keep that in mind tonight.

From the Pentagon here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a memorial service in May, Army Ranger Corporal Pat Tillman, the man who turned down a $3.6 million pro football deal to serve his country after September 11th was praised for his courage and sacrifice.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: While many of us may be blessed to live a longer life than he did, few of us, few of us will ever live a better one.

MCINTYRE: The 27-year-old former defensive back for the Arizona Cardinals was said by the Army to have died in a firefight with Taliban forces in Afghanistan. His posthumous Silver Star citation issued in late April reads in part:

"Tillman directed his team into firing positions and personally provided suppressive fire. Tillman's voice was heard issuing commands to take the fight to the enemy forces."

It wasn't until weeks later an Army general at Fort Bragg, who took no questions, read a statement revealing Tillman was shot by accident by his fellow Rangers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation results indicate that Corporal Tillman probably died as a result of friendly fire while his unit was engaged in combat with enemy forces.

MCINTYRE: Now, it's not clear there were ever Taliban fighters in the rugged Afghan region where two groups of U.S. soldiers ended up mistakenly shooting at each other.

A "Washington Post" investigation, which reviewed dozens of witness statements, e-mails, investigation findings, log books, maps and photographs concludes: "Tillman died unnecessarily after botched communications, a mistaken decision to split his platoon over the objections of its leader, and negligent shooting by pumped-up young rangers."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They poured so much fire on the positions they thought were enemies that they essentially were indiscriminate in the judgment of the Army's own investigators.

MCINTYRE: In October, well before the "Washington Post" account, Senator McCain sent a letter to the then acting Army secretary pressing for answers. McCain passed along four pages of questions posed by Tillman's mother Mary. Among them, "Why did it take five weeks to tell us that Pat was killed by friendly fire when it was obvious right away? Why was Pat's death so embellished by the military? And, why did the military lie to the media and to us about the friendly fire?"

The Army insists it believes there were enemy forces at the scene. If an investigation finds otherwise, Tillman might not be entitled to a Silver Star, which is awarded for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Now there have been some punishments in the case. Three Army soldiers have been reprimanded, two of them officers and four soldiers have been transferred out of the elite Rangers back into the regular Army.

But what the family and Senator McCain want to know is if the Army intentionally exaggerated Tillman's actions on the battlefield and whether they took any action to cover up the mistakes that led to his death -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just a couple questions here. How long has the Army had these questions, the questions from Pat Tillman's mom through Senator McCain?

MCINTYRE: Well, Senator McCain wrote that letter to the acting Army Secretary Les Brownlee back in October and about a couple of weeks after that they reopened the investigation. That was before the "Post" did its big expose.

BROWN: And to this point from October to roughly the end of the first week in December they have not come up with any answers? MCINTYRE: They're still looking. They admit that there are a lot of unanswered questions that the investigation is essentially incomplete, especially on the questions of how this was handled, not so much what happened but how it was handled and that's something that they owe Senator McCain and the family answers to now and they're committed to give them to them.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

Before we move on, we're following a story that continues to develop out of Chicago. There's a fire on the 29th floor of a 45- story office building in Chicago, the LaSalle National Bank Building. It's in the loop area downtown. It broke out about 7:30 Eastern Time. No firm word on any fatalities yet and we hope we don't hear of any.

So far 18 people have been taken to the hospital. One eyewitness reports a number of co-workers trapped on the 35th floor. Rescue workers now going floor by floor to get to them and anyone else who may still be in the building. People on the lower floors were told fairly early on to get out and as best we can tell most of them did.

CNN's Jonathan Freed is there and we'll check with him in a moment or so as we learn more about this. Meantime, they continue to fight the fire on our last look coming up. They were on the road to containing it.

We continue on now through Saudi Arabia for years a wellspring of Islamic terrorism, now increasingly a battleground. The homegrown terrorists who go by the name Qaeda al Jihad (ph) have declared war on the Saudi royal family and the west, especially the United States for keeping the royal family in power.

Tonight, the group is taking responsibility for an assault earlier today on the American Consulate building in Jeddah. In all at least eight people died, so from Jeddah tonight, CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Broken glass litters the ground testimony to the ferocity of force al Qaeda members used to blast their way through the consular security. Smoke still rising from the consular compound following a gun battle in which Saudi security forces killed three of the al Qaeda members and wounded the other two.

By day's end, several Islamic Web sites claim Saudi al Qaeda was responsible. In the battle inside four local consular staff and one contract guard were killed but no Americans were reported wounded as all sought refuge in secure areas. In the aftermath, crowds gathered, some witness to what is the most brazen attack on U.S. diplomats in Saudi history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There was gunfire and the situation was really terrible. We tried to get out but it was difficult to reach that neighborhood. The terrorists fired at all places. They have no respect. They fired in different directions and, as you know, there are several schools in this area.

ROBERTSON: Amid tight security, children were evacuated from the area and the U.S. Embassy announced offices in Riyadh, Jeddah and Dhahran would remain closed through Tuesday. In a message from the embassy, Americans in Saudi Arabia were warned "to exercise the utmost security precautions."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: In a statement, the U.S. ambassador expressed his deep condolences to the families of the victims; however, such a breach of security is likely to rattle many U.S. citizens living here who consider security at their compounds far less rigorous than that of the U.S. Consulate -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, there have been three or four of these now on western sites. How large is the American population, the ex-pat population in Jeddah?

ROBERTSON: In Jeddah it is -- I don't have an exact figure for Jeddah. We do know that inside the country as a whole it is perhaps 30,000 to 40,000, although numbers have changed over the course of this year, the bulk of that number being on the other coast around Dhahran, Al Khobar, the oil facilities there, many of them in the capital as well but there are a significant number living here in Jeddah.

BROWN: And by and large under whatever normal circumstances are these days do they feel comfortable walking along the streets, going to the shops, going about their daily lives or do they live them all in these secure or what they believe to be secure compounds?

ROBERTSON: People, westerners here aren't as comfortable moving around the streets, no. It goes in peaks and troughs. We're likely in a trough right now. What has happened and what we've seen over the last few months of the summer with these attacks is that when people begin to forget about the last attack they start going out.

As soon as there is another attack, as soon as another westerner is killed, people retreat back into their compounds. They don't go out to the stores don't go out to the restaurants. It's a very strained existence and likely this will be one of those troughs that people feel very worried about going out again -- Aaron.

BROWN: For a while, Nic, thank you, Nic Robertson in Jeddah.

If Saudi Arabia was deadly today how best to describe the situation in Iraq of late? By one measure, an important measure but by no means the only one, it actually is improving there.

Insurgent attacks on American forces have fallen significantly since the battle of Falluja down to about 60 a day from 240 a day, which says something about perspective and the perversity of it all. Insurgents may simply be turning to easier targets, by and large Iraqi targets.

Later tonight, Senator Joe Biden back from his fourth tour of Iraq, first, the news of the day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): More attacks today against Iraq's major asset, its oil. North of Baghdad authorities say a bomb was planted near a pipeline not far from the troubled city of Samarra.

And, farther north, insurgents were blamed for another explosion this one at an oil storage facility in the city of Kirkuk both attacks against Iraqi domestic supplies.

And traveling to Kuwait today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld finally conceded that the administration's conviction that weapons of mass destruction existed in Iraq before the war was wrong.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: And that is, of course, why our forces put on chemical suits all the way up from Kuwait into Baghdad every day because everybody believed that to be the case and it at the moment has not turned out to be the case. It may later but at least at the moment it hasn't, so that's clearly a disappointment.

BROWN: The secretary also said he hoped American troops could be gone from Iraq within four years but he made no guarantees.

Meanwhile, in Tikrit, a group called Ansar Al Sunna Army (ph) claimed responsibility for attacks yesterday which killed 17 Iraqis, all of them working for the U.S. military. All tolled more than 80 have been killed over the weekend and into today. Most have been Iraqis working for or with the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And, again later in the hour we'll talk with Senator Joe Biden who is just back from Iraq.

Now on to the still photos and the war stories they tell two sets in this case. One is notorious from Abu Ghraib. The other involving Navy SEALs in May of last year may be open to a number of interpretations. Both have triggered criminal proceedings.

In the case of Abu Ghraib, a pretrial hearing for Army Specialist Charles Graner the defense today failing to get the case thrown out on grounds that remarks by the president not to mention the photos themselves might prejudice a military jury. As for the Navy SEAL photos the investigation is just getting underway.

From the Pentagon tonight, here's CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A lot of questions about what these pictures show, what do they mean and why Navy SEALs operating in Iraqi apparently took hem. A Navy spokesman told CNN it is standard practice to take a detainee's official photo after capture. None of these appear to be those official mug type shots. They appear to be trophy type pictures, the spokesman said, not permitted.

But do they show abuse? Look at this photo. It appears to show an Iraqi detainee with a gun in the foreground of the photo pointed at his head but the Navy says the gun had a light on the end that was used to take the man's picture.

Then there is this, the U.S. military person on the right has both fists raised. Is he getting ready to hit the detainee? The Navy says no that he is using a standard Special Operations tactic, hand signals, instead of speaking in the presence of enemy forces. The SEALs declined to say what this hand gesture is meant to convey.

Many of the photos were apparently taken soon after capture. Detainees are restrained if they resist.

KEN ROBINSON, MILITARY ANALYST: At a point when you are trying to capture an enemy you need to be aggressive. You need to be rough because you need to disarm them and you need to make sure they're no longer a threat to you or your unit.

STARR: But still these photos are not permitted. One of the more potentially egregious examples a Navy SEAL grinning for no apparent reason.

(on camera): The Navy Criminal Investigative Service is continuing its review into this entire matter. Navy officials emphasize the photos may not show abuse but that disciplinary action still may be warranted.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I told you earlier in the program about a fire in an office building in the loop in downtown Chicago. CNN's Jonathan Freed is now on the scene and on the phone -- Jon.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (by telephone): Good evening, Aaron.

I can tell you that this fire started at about 6:30 p.m. local time here in Chicago and at this point, Aaron, one-third, a full one- third of Chicago's firefighters and its firefighting equipment are on the scene.

The fire is on the 29th floor of this 43-story (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's one of those older, grander buildings here in the loop in Chicago right in the heart of the financial district. It's the LaSalle Bank Building, 43 stories, built in 1934.

At this point, it's not clear whether or not anybody is still inside. Firefighters, some of them anyway, are still executing a search of the building just in case but it is generally believed that most of the people that would have likely been inside have made it out. Now, at least 18 people were injured and at least two firefighters, Aaron, were seriously injured. This is a five alarm fire, which is as big as it gets in Chicago and, again, we've got one- third of the city's firefighting capability here right now.

Aaron, one of the reasons that high rise fires in Chicago, it's a major concern anywhere but it strikes a particular note here in Chicago because in October of last year there was a high rise fire in a county building in which six people died from smoke inhalation and they were stuck in a locked stairwell.

A public inquiry resulted from that. The fire commissioner retired not long after that report came out, which pretty well condemned the nature of the response to that fire.

And since then the city is very sensitive to this kind of thing. They respond in much greater numbers than they used to and there is still talk of reform, of retrofitting older buildings with sprinklers.

This building we understand does have a sprinkler system but it's not clear whether or not it's been activated. And, Aaron, I k now that a number of people have been stopping and talking to some of the cameras this evening and let's hear from somebody now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The both of us we were all going down (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and everyone was trying to, you know, get out and stay low, covering up their mouths. At one point it was almost impossible to breathe and they just kept screaming "Keep going, keep going" and everybody kept going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED: Now, Aaron I am staring up at the building right now and you can smell the smoke in the air and the police just pushed the perimeter back to the corner of Jackson and South Clark Street. If you know the city we are right in the heart of the financial district.

Before we were less than a half a block from the burning building, Aaron and you could see ash falling down in front of you where the media was camped out but as they begin to tackle this fire and get a hold of it, the police came and they pushed this perimeter back tremendous amount of concern still.

They continue to search the building to make sure that there is nobody inside but as of now there are at least the beginnings of a sign that they are getting this thing under control -- Aaron.

BROWN: I would agree. Looking at the pictures there's a big difference between the live and the tape and we'll keep an eye on it, Jon thank you, Jonathan Freed in downtown Chicago.

Ahead tonight, fires of a different sort, are they the work of an arsonist with political agendas?

And later high tech warriors where video gaming meets the real thing, and we do mean the real thing, a break first.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: An affluent neighborhood of Maryland appears to have been the target of arson. Forty-one homes, 41, under construction were set on fire early today. The fires destroyed a dozen of them. Officials believe eco terrorists may have been involved.

Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Residents living in this Washington suburb say they've never seen anything like it.

DAWN PHILLIPS, RESIDENT: The sky was really bright, I mean lit up like the sun and I thought it was too early for it to be that light.

ARENA: Officials say it appears dozens of separate fires were set. Investigators say there were incendiary devices found at the scene. Some didn't go off and could provide investigative clues.

FARON TAYLOR, DEPUTY STATE FIRE MARSHAL: In each of those fires we were also able to determine the cause and that was incendiary, in other words that was arson.

ARENA: The damage is estimated at about $10 million. Dozens of state, local and federal investigators are looking into whether this was an act of eco terrorism.

TAYLOR: We have discovered no evidence at this point to give us an idea as to who may or what if any organization was responsible for these fires.

ARENA: Environmental activists claimed construction would damage a nearby wetlands area and some took legal action to try to stop the development. But at least one group involved in the lawsuit says that's where the protest ended in court.

BOB DEGROUT, ASSN. FOR GREENWAY IMPROVEMENT: The environmental groups in Maryland just aren't into things like terrorism, which is what this sounds like happened down there.

ARENA: There have been no claims of responsibility, no signature spray paintings that have been used before in eco terror attacks. Still, law enforcement officials say it bears the marking of such an attack as groups like the Earth Liberation Front have claimed responsibility for attacking housing developments before. In fact, out of all homegrown terrorist groups, the FBI says eco terrorists pose the greatest threat.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up on the program ahead, food as a weapon of terror. How worried should we actually be? We'll look at two links in the food chain how well protected they are.

Also ahead, virtual war has never seemed so real, how technology is transforming battle training. We'll take a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's fair to say that Senator Joe Biden, the Democrat from Delaware, is a critic of the administration when it comes to Iraq. We value his opinions because his critique to our ear cannot be pigeonholed as coming from either the left or the right. He supported the war but has been harshly critical of the way the post war has been executed.

The Senator is back from his fourth tour of Iraq, a very different place he says from his first, not better just different. We spoke with him earlier this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator, for the last four years you've been in and out of Iraq as much as probably anyone in the Senate. Is it better or worse?

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: It's worse. It's gotten worse every time, Aaron. This is my fourth trip. We need considerably more security. We got fired on. The Green Zone was fired on, a significant number of casualties unrelated to our visit. You've been reporting the toll. It's less secure.

BROWN: How can it be that given the daily reports of how many insurgents we kill that we take this city or we take that city, how can it be -- and how much we've spent both in lives and in dollars, how can it be that it is less safe today than it was a year ago?

BIDEN: Because we can win our objectives. We can't secure them. Let me be precise. I was in Falluja, met with our commanding generals and the entire combat staff that was there. There must have been 40 people in the room.

They're frank to tell us that they -- of the incredible job, which was obvious, our young warriors have done, how concerned they were about being able to get people back into the city but pointing out that that job requires them to stay in Falluja, yet they know full well that a significant number of the insurgents before we got there and after we were there have gone to the surrounding cities and they got to go move out, move them out of those cities.

They got the biggest hornet's nest but the hornets have gone up and set up nests other places. And further, because we had given the insurgency so much time they've gotten much more sophisticated. It is the former Ba'athists. There's an awful lot of sophisticated military persons in the Saddam regime who are running the show now and we simply don't have enough forces.

I will tell you one general, one major officer as I was getting into the helicopter they waited until the noise of the helicopter was so loud no one could hear, ran up and grabbed me and just as I was about to board the helicopter to head to Baghdad and said, "Senator, anybody who tells you we don't need forces here is a G.D. liar."

BROWN: So, when Iraqi officials come to Washington and they say things are getting great, they're getting better all the time and the president nods and agrees somebody is not telling somebody the truth here.

BIDEN: Well, that's true but, if you notice, the president of Iraq came this time and he didn't say things were getting a lot better. He said they were tough and he needed more help.

BROWN: This notion that no longer is the road from the U.S. Embassy to the airport secure enough for people to travel tells you about everything you need to know about how...

BIDEN: Absolutely.

BROWN: ...how much the situation has deteriorated and it just, that's one piece of road but it's not an insignificant one.

BIDEN: No and by the way in the Green Zone, the secure zone, the day we were there, there were six mortars in broad daylight that came over. As we took off to get out of Baghdad to head to Kuwait the C- 130 we were in was fired on by a missile.

We had this action where, you know, the plane about turned upside down, flares went off and, you know, now when we landed we asked the pilot and he said, "Well, the radar picked up an incoming missile. We can't be sure it was a missile but" and so on and so forth.

The point is the first time I was there I walked around the streets of Baghdad, literally walked around the streets of Baghdad without armor on, without body armor on, without a helmet on.

There is nothing -- it is -- now, look, part of this is predictable and that is you and I have talked about this, Aaron, that it was clear that there was going to be an upsurge, a considerable upsurge of violence between now and the election to try to dissuade people from voting but the fact of the matter is all our military commanders tell us it's very sophisticated.

BROWN: Yes.

BIDEN: And we're not talking about al Qaeda. We're talking about 90 percent of it is a homegrown insurgency. We disbanded the army, when we shouldn't have. We did not go in with enough force when we did. And we did not have enough legitimacy. So we have got a lot of ground to make up. And General Petraeus, who is training the forces, is a hell of a guy. We have first-rate commanders there. But it's going to be tough.

BROWN: Senator, it's good to see you. If we don't see you before the holiday, have a wonderful one. But I hope we do and we'll talk some more. Thank you, sir.

BIDEN: Good to see you.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Joe Biden. We talked to him earlier tonight.

Still to come on the program, guarding our food against terrorism. How vulnerable are we, in fact? How worried should we be?

Also ahead, as always, a first look at tomorrow's news. Man, is that cool that we can do that? Morning papers.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The new normal forged by 9/11 has brought plenty of scares. And with each new threat, part of the challenge for those in charge, and for those of us who aren't, is weighing how scared we ought to be, what is real and what is not.

For the last 72 hours, we here at CNN have been working on a story that was set in motion when another member of the Bush Cabinet announced last week he is stepping down and, in doing so, sent off plenty of fireworks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Like a grenade at a picnic, a comment last Friday by the outgoing secretary of health and human services, Tommy Thompson, was an unexpected blast at our sense of security about the food we eat.

THOMPSON: For the life of me, I cannot understand why the terrorists have not, you know, attacked our food supply, because it is so easy to do.

BROWN: On Saturday, the president sought to downplay Thompson's remarks.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tommy was commenting on the fact that we're a large country with all kinds of avenues where somebody could inflict harm and we're doing everything we can to protect the American people.

BROWN: And today, the FDA said the risk of a terror attack on our food supply is low, highlighting improvements made since 9/11. For example, this year, the FDA will inspect 100,000 shipments of food, a huge jump from the 12,000 annual inspections done just four years ago.

Back in front of reporters today, Secretary Thompson pointed out, the FDA still hasn't hired any new inspectors to handle the increased workload.

THOMPSON: The number of inspectors are staying constant, about 1,500 for all inspectors in FDA.

BROWN: And there's a nagging question about Secretary Thompson's somewhat bizarre remark last Friday. What prompted it? Reporters tried to glean more, went away hungry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, the outgoing secretary offers little help. And, in truth, the idea of attacking the food chain itself is not an easy one. It has been tried.

In looking for some areas of both risk and comfort, we look toward the Middle East. We import plenty of fruits and vegetables from there. And there, they do have some experience with those intent on killing or causing chaos.

So here's CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Americans buy their produce from the Middle East, almost all of it comes from Israel, from farmers like Albert Schoener. For 12 years, he's grown peppers in the Negev Desert.

ALBERT SCHOENER, ISRAELI PEPPER FARMER: Don't be afraid. First of all, my family is using this pepper. So I will never give my family bad product.

VAUSE: Why? Because the packing plant is off-limits to strangers. He has his own security man. Alan Kedni (ph) is the pepper picker checker.

As well, farmer Schoener says there are almost daily government inspections, at times, even from the Israeli secret service. And the peppers are escorted from farm to truck and then to plane. Across Israel, the Ministry of Agriculture routinely checks for possible food terrorism, testing samples from 1,000 farms each year, looking for toxins, pathogens and dangerous levels of pesticides.

In 30 years, Miriam Freund, an analytical chemist, has never found anything suspicious and doubts a biological attack on fruit or vegetables could ever be carried out.

MIRIAM FREUND, ISRAELI AGRICULTURE MINISTRY: It will shone on the skin and nobody will buy or eat them because they are damaged by the poison themselves.

VAUSE: That's not to say it hasn't been tried. In 1978, Palestinians injected mercury into Israeli oranges which were then exported to Europe. More than a dozen people fell ill, but that was seen as economic terrorism, designed to harm Israel's economy.

(on camera): Israeli intelligence says, since then, it knows of just one attempt to poison this country's food supply; 4 1/2 years ago, a Palestinian from the Islamic militant group Hamas was arrested while returning from Afghanistan, where it's believed he received special training from al Qaeda in biotoxins.

(voice-over): So, the bottom line, while the Israeli says their exports to the U.S. are among the safest in the world, there will always be the threat of a terrorist attack on farmers like Albert Schoener.

John Vause, CNN, central Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, ahead on the program, if what you just heard sounded somewhat reassuring, our next guest could change your mind by changing a bit the way we look at it all.

We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Joining us from Old Lyme, Connecticut, is Stephen Flynn. Mr. Flynn is the author of "America the Vulnerable." He spent 20 years as a commissioned officer in the U.S. Coast Guard. He has worked for the administrations of the President Bush and President Clinton as well. And we're pleased to see him.

When we talk about this notion of food terrorism, I think some people see it as, well, somehow, they're going to infect in some way every hamburger patty in the country and a million will get sick or drop dead. But it's actually -- you need to look at this somewhat differently. A small amount could do extraordinary damage.

STEPHEN FLYNN, AUTHOR, "AMERICA THE VULNERABLE": Yes.

The real damage is to our economy. The agriculture sector makes up about 10 percent of our gross domestic product. It employs about one out of eight workers in this country. And it creates about $1 trillion of cash currency every year. It is one of our -- it is our most important export. The issue is really like the Tylenol incident about 20 years ago.

You have a single incident and everybody gets spooked about everything in the sector. And it's part because we don't have things like laboratories to be able to test stuff quickly. We don't have the command-and-controls to be able to deal with these effectively. You probably remember, Aaron, reporting a year ago about this one mad cow we had in Washington state. It took us days to figure out where the cow came from.

And we had to fly the results all the way to London to determine that it actually was a diseased cow. We have got very broken systems to alert us about whether there really is a threat and to reassure everyone which part of the system may be damaged and which part of it is safe. When you can't reassure people, then the public assumes all of it is unsafe. We don't eat, the sector gets hurt economically very, very seriously.

BROWN: One of the sort of complicated parts of doing work in an area like this is, on the one hand, you want to be realistic. On the other hand, you don't want to scare the living daylights out of people. Is it -- would it be easy to do if you were intent on doing it?

FLYNN: Yes.

You know, our food industry is sort of shaped like an hourglass. On the production side here, the farms and the livestock and so forth, is spread out globally. And then it funnels together in key points, like feeder stations and slaughterhouses and major food processing plants. And then it goes back out again into description, from everything from fast food places to restaurants and supermarkets.

And probably one of the real vulnerabilities is at that choke point. Like, there's places like in Amarillo, Texas, That you have about 1.5 million cows basically feeding in advance of going to slaughter in about a 100-mile area. So foot and mouth disease shows up in that neighborhood, you have got a real problem, because all that cattle basically is exposed. And you have to confront it. It would be an economic disaster.

And it also would be a tremendously difficult thing to cope with. It would take about an 800-mile-long ditch just to bury that many cows. So it gets us on all these issues. We need to think through in advance the what if there's a bump in the night.

What would make this a lot less attractive to do as a means of warfare, if you couldn't do the economic disruption, if we had the means to quickly identify where in our food supply contamination took place and be able to isolate it. And, by the way, that's good food safety.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Why don't we? Why don't we?

FLYNN: Well, it's part because it is a very fragmented industry. And it's very difficult to get everybody -- this is the story the 9/11 Commission documented again and again across the other issues of government. It's very true even more so in the agricultural sector.

You have so many small farmers. You so many small players. Everybody is competing with one another across the industry. There's no real command and control. We have a Centers for Disease Control for human disease issues. There's no equivalent one overseeing agency on the agriculture side. It's the kind of thing recommendations have been out there for, for a long time. But there's just no action by Congress or this administration.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Let me try a couple things here before this ends.

Would you say that, in the post-9/11 period, we are, in this area, really more rigorous than we were in the pre-9/11 era?

FLYNN: The answer is no.

There is a little more being done in terms of inspection of food coming across our borders. But, in terms of our capacity, should something happen, to be able to identify where in our livestock or where in our other foods, farm foods and so forth, something is wrong, we still don't have those means. We still don't have the labs. We haven't figured out the command-and-control. It's spread across research universities and farm states. On it goes. It's a real challenge.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: About 30 seconds left.

Does it make you at all angry, annoy you, make you wonder why Tommy Thompson waited until the day he quit to drop this little bombshell?

FLYNN: Well, you know, the experience I had with the Hart-Rudman commission in advance of 9/11, with the task force who ran with the Council on Foreign Relations, the most recent 9/11, everyone outside of government, from both sides of the political spectrum, that steps back and looks at this threat says it's real and looks at our government's capacity to deal with it and basically turn gray. That's consensus on the left and right.

But, somehow, when we're in government, everybody has to seem to say, everything's fine, just keep shopping and traveling. I think that we're not doing a service to the American people if our government isn't more candid up front about how challenging and difficult this is.

BROWN: Yes.

Steve, good to see you. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate your candor tonight. Thank you, Stephen Flynn.

FLYNN: Thank you for having me, Aaron.

BROWN: Still ahead on the program, 21st century war games. The Pentagon, Hollywood, Silicon Valley team up to create the ultimate virtual battlefield.

Morning papers, too. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We began tonight with the firefight in Afghanistan that killed Army Ranger Pat Tillman last April. Chaos and confusion shape every battlefield. And the fog of war can be deadly, which brings us to the challenge of preparing young soldiers for their first taste of war.

It's an age-old mission that's being reshaped by technology, Fort Sill, Oklahoma the forefront.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Inside the battered room, two American soldiers try to plot the precise trajectory of artillery shells they will soon direct to a target in Baghdad. Then the lights go out and sniper rounds crackle across the room with eerie accuracy.

STAFF SGT. JARROD FRANK, U.S. ARMY: Having been there, especially being in this room, just looking around this, it is very, very similar to what you're actually going to see when you're on the ground over there.

BROWN: None of it is real, not the ragged room, nor the view out the window. It's all part of a very expensive, long-term relationship between video game experts, scientists, special effects wizards and the U.S. Army. The idea, of course, is to save lives on the battlefield, lives that are all-too genuine.

MAJ. JAMES STRINGER, U.S. ARMY: We really want to make this training as realistic as possible, so that the guys are not facing these types of situations in this environment for the first time in combat.

BROWN: This is the central nervous system of the project, desktop computers crammed with the latest software to mimic street life in an Iraqi city.

RICHARD BLEAU, TELOS-OK SYSTEMS: I hit play. You see, we have got the (INAUDIBLE) view is playing right now. You can hear the students talking over the radio.

BROWN: Each pair of trainees is given a mission to destroy Iraqi targets before being spotted and killed.

STAFF SGT. CHRISTOPHER ROBERTS, U.S. ARMY: I think this is great. This is the best training I've ever seen in the Army, the props, the whole set. It's the most realistic thing I've seen.

BROWN: For the price the Army is paying, it ought to be. So far, it's cost about $45 million over five years, most of the money going to the firm called the Institute For Creative Technologies at the University of Southern California.

It's the same group responsible for this, a video game supported by the Army called "Full Spectrum Warrior." It's proven to be one of the most popular games on the Internet. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ranger 267, offset right, six nautical miles.

BROWN: And the training isn't confined to urban warfare. These soldiers look as if they're in an Afghan desert calling in an airstrike, but this is a set as well, complete with a Humvee and laser-sighting scope. Ultimately, all kinds of scenarios will be possible.

STRINGER: This facility that we're in right now is actually a prototype, kind of a proof of the concept. And what we're ultimately hoping to do is build a much larger, more capable facility, create a series of configurable base that we can simulate any portion of the world that we need.

BROWN: The military says all this will ultimately save money, no need to conduct as many live fire tests with real ammunition over and over again to make reality at least a little less daunting.

FRANK: I'm not saying soldiers are going to feel a sense of safety when they're on the ground over there, but as much realistic training as you can get here in the United States, when you get over there, it is going to be that much more valuable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

Morning papers from around the country after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK. Oh, there you are. Time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world.

I don't know if this happens to you when you do morning papers on Monday, but I'm not as organized today as I might wish I were. But here we go anyway.

"International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times" in Paris, leads with the attack in Saudi Arabia. "U.S. Consulate in Jeddah attacked. Al Qaeda tied to Raid in Which 12 Died. Americans Are All Rushed to Safety." Goodness gracious.

"The Christian Science Moni" -- "Monitor" -- come on, Aaron -- also leads with the attack. "Attack Tests Saudi Security Strategy." My own view on this is, it wasn't very good in this case. Call me crazy. "Yesterday's Strike on U.S. Consulate in Jeddah Shows That Militants Have Regrouped Despite Efforts to Disrupt Them."

"The Stars and Stripes" has -- I think this is a great story. "G.I.s Who Refused Convoy" -- remember this story, I don't know, a couple of months ago -- "Won't Face Court-Martial; 23 From 343rd Quartermaster Company to Get Nonjudicial Punishment." I'm not sure what the reasoning was there. But that's how they're going to handle that. These were folks who said it was too dangerous, their trucks weren't armored. And they said forget it. We're not going. And so they didn't.

"Arson Suspected in Mass Blaze" is how "The Washington Times" lead. Also, up at the top, "House Republicans Call For Annan to Step Down, Threaten to Withhold Funding From the U.N." It seems like, every few years, we withhold funding from the U.N.

"The Oregonian" leads with history of a sort out in Portland, this being -- or tomorrow, at least, being the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. "Pasting Together a Life Cut Short. Sheath of Letters Emerges From the Past and Helps Siblings Forge Links With a Brother Lost to the War." This is a terrific story, made more so -- I don't know if you can get to the bottom of the page. "Oregon Soldier Killed in Ambush by Iraqi Insurgents." It just sort of ties the moment ago.

How much time we got? Oh, OK, 40. That's plenty of good time.

Bush: "Iraq Elections Will Go On. President Pledges to Soldier On, Not Let Killers Derail January Balloting." We hope it goes on. That's a pretty good story on the front page of "The Atlanta Journal- Constitution."

"The Examiner" out in San Francisco -- this newspaper is free, by the way, so there's no excuse for not reading it. "Muni Chief Proposes Cuts to Bus Service."

I love this story in "The Boston Herald," because I like little stories like this. "Globe-Trotting Mitt" -- that's Mitt Romney, the governor -- "Bills Secret, But You're Paying the Bill."

The weather tomorrow in Chicago, by the way, "discombobulating."

Good to have you with us tonight. We're all back here tomorrow 10:00 Eastern. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.

Good night for all of us.

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