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PAULA ZAHN NOW
Boston Prepares For Democratic Convention; New Terror Warning; Douglas Faneuil Fined $2,000
Aired July 23, 2004 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, Boston battens down for the Democrats, unprecedented security for a political convention, on alert, and bracing for the worst.
And a new warning of a terrorist attack here at home one day after the 9/11 Commission made its final recommendations and Congress goes on vacation.
ZAHN: Good evening. Welcome. Thanks for wrapping up the week with us here; 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean told the nation yesterday we are safer today than we were on 9/11, but we are not safe.
Well, tonight, there is yet another chilling reminder of just how uncertain our safety is. A senior CIA official says the intelligence community has a fairly specific piece of information that al Qaeda wants to strike the U.S. The official says it is not just chatter.
Our Justice Department correspondent Kelli Arena has been following this story all day long. She joins us now from Washington.
Kelli, how concerned is the government about this warning?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, they've been concerned for at least two months now. There is a continuous stream of information. It's not just one bit of information, but information from a variety of sources that's very consistent, that continues to suggest that al Qaeda is planning a major attack against the U.S. on U.S. soil. And some of that information suggests that Osama bin Laden, himself, is coordinating the planning of that attack.
ZAHN: And this information is not just coming from chatter this time around, correct?
ARENA: Well, that's right. Senior officials have said that this has risen to a new level of specificity. For example, there have been several operatives that have been taken into custody in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan who are providing recent, fresh, new information as a result of interrogations.
Now, obviously, these are bits of information, Paula. Everybody has a little piece of the puzzle, and so no one is coming to the table with the full plan, obviously, because we still lack information on what the method will be, the location of an attack, timing of an attack. None of those specifics are known.
ZAHN: Plus, you've got to wonder how much you can trust these detainees and the integrity of what they're telling interrogators.
ARENA: Well, that's true. And there are two types of detainees, some that come in and try to give a lot of information, much of it false, others that come in and say nothing, afraid of revealing any plans, but, obviously, these are experts that are dealing with these men and have certain tactics that they use and they go back with the -- the key here is the corroboration, Paula.
It's getting some information from one source that corroborates and is consistent with information from another source. And that's what takes it to the next level.
ZAHN: And let me make sure I understand this correctly. This is consistent with what we had heard before about the threat of a potential domestic attack in advance of the election?
ARENA: That's right. This is building on those warnings that we've heard previously from Homeland Secretary Tom Ridge and Attorney General John Ashcroft very publicly saying we are facing a threat.
The time frame that has been laid out is between now, any time now between now and the presidential election in November. There has been a great deal of information coming in suggesting that al Qaeda and related groups -- because it's not just al Qaeda that we're dealing with now, Paula -- there are related groups that have similar ideologies that are pretty much convinced that, if they attack, they may somehow get to disrupt the political process here or at least have such a big impact, which was similar to September 11.
ZAHN: Well, Kelli, here is what I don't get. If this is, indeed, considered a credible threat, then why isn't the threat level being raised tonight?
ARENA: Well, I actually asked several people that question today. And, No. 1, the Homeland Security Office has said that unless they're dealing with something very specific that they can give localities to act on, that they're really trying hard not to yo-yo with that threat level.
We're dealing with a period between now and November, Paula. That is a long time for localities to stay on such high alert. Usually, you get about a two-week punch from going to a new state of alert and then after that, things sort of get back to normal, so you have to watch the timing. And we're in a political season.
ARENA: Anything that happens now is sure to be second-guessed.
ZAHN: And we certainly have to put that through our prism as we analyze all this. Kelli Arena, thanks for the update.
ARENA: You're welcome.
ZAHN: Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, lawmakers are planning to take action to deal with the terror threat described in the final 9/11 Commission report. And, today, a Senate committee announced that a bill addressing some of the commission's recommendations could be drafted by October 1.
Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman is a member of that committee and earlier, I asked him how nervous Americans should be about what appears to be some fairly specific threats.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the intelligence community has certainly told us on Capitol Hill that the intelligence they're receiving now of an al Qaeda intention to strike the United States is the most explicit they've received since September 11.
So we've got to take it seriously. And, of course, that's all the more reason for Congress to respond to the 9/11 Commission recommendations with a real sense of urgency. We have a goal. We want to report a bill to the Senate by October 1 and see if we can get it adopted by the end of this year. This is too urgent to just respond with business as usual.
ZAHN: Can you do it before October?
LIEBERMAN: Well, we'd like to and that should take precedence over anything else we have on our schedules, vacations, recess, campaigning. It just ought to fall by the wayside in comparison to this challenge.
ZAHN: You say it ought to fall by the wayside, but a fair number of Congress members will be out on summer recess. Is that appropriate and what should Americans think when this 9/11 Commission report makes it very clear what needs to be done and what needs to be done quickly?
LIEBERMAN: I've got a feeling, Paula, that when members of Congress go home for the recess, that some of their constituents are going to say to them, why aren't you back in Washington working to get done some of the things that the 9/11 Commission said you've got to do to make us safer? That, to me, has to be the priority.
ZAHN: Well, Senator, if you had had the opportunity to listen to any talk radio today, that was the debate. Why are they going home?
LIEBERMAN: Well, the voice of the people ought to be listened to. I know we go home in August in normal times. We focus on campaigns in normal times.
But here you have got on the one hand the commission report which says we're safer than we were on September 11, but we're not safe. Then you've got this intelligence information that you referred to earlier, the most explicit since 9/11, that our enemies intend to attack us again. Now, how can we go back home, go to recess, go on vacation when we have these two events coming together?
ZAHN: Well, Congress already got slapped around with this report questioning its oversight ability. Do you foresee a scenario where you, in fact, will have a special session of Congress?
LIEBERMAN: That's my hope. I don't think there is any excuse for not getting it done as soon as we can humanly get it done. And if we want to, we can do it quickly.
LIEBERMAN: And, finally tonight, Senator, even if you do come back into session, even your colleague John McCain has admitted there will be a lot of institutional resistance in trying to put some of these recommendations into practice. Final thought on that
LIEBERMAN: Members of Congress who are on committees that will lose some authority and turf if the commission's recommendations are adopted to concentrate intelligence oversight in one committee and appropriations on homeland security in one committee, they're going to fight that.
But we've got to fight back. You can't protect your turf when what's on the line is the safety and security of the American people. And I think if we keep saying this, it's going to catch on and Congress is going to do something that is not only going to be right, but we're all going to be proud of.
ZAHN: We'll be watching you from here, Senator.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you.
ZAHN: Senator Joe Lieberman, thanks so much.
ZAHN: And late today, we learned that the House is also planning to act quickly on the 9/11 report. In a joint statement, Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Leader Tom DeLay said hearings on the recommendations will begin next month and Congress will consider specific proposals in September.
The Democrats get ready to nominate John Kerry and warnings of a terrorist attack continues. When we come back, security in Boston, a convention city on high alert.
ZAHN: The Democratic big show in Boston begins in three days and terrorism is a prime concern as an issue in the campaign and as a stark reality on the ground.
As the delegates get ready to nominate the Kerry-Edwards ticket, security for the convention is at an unprecedented level, as our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, reports.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Colorado, soon-to-be Democratic nominee John Kerry is on his way to Boston.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are setting off on a journey that begins right here in my birthplace and it's going to end in Boston, America's birthplace.
CROWLEY: In Boston, Rachel Weinstein (ph) is on her way to the Dominican Republic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard on the radio that there's going to be like 12-mile backups and closings and they were going to be searching bags in the T., so we just wanted to go.
CROWLEY: Thirty-five thousand people are expected to descend on Boston for the Democratic National Convention. It is the people they don't know are coming that consumes security forces from the Boston Police to the Secret Service, the latest, an FBI warning with unconfirmed information that a domestic group, described by one source as anarchists, may attack media vehicles with explosives or incendiary devices.
Unconfirmed reports adds to uncertainty in the streets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what to expect, you know? It's the unexpected. I don't know what to expect. It's been hyped up a lot. I just don't know what to expect.
CROWLEY: Smoke-filled rooms are relics of the last century. This is the era of bomb-sniffing dogs. The largest collection of them in history will be working the streets in Boston. As security forces begin to shut down the streets, seal up manholes and stop the trains, John Kerry began his slow roll into the convention. The idea is to use his travels and the convention to warm up the chillier aspects of Kerry's personality. Witness the newest ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here are some things about John Kerry you may not know. He volunteered for Vietnam, earned Purple Hearts and risked his own life to save others, a family man, a person of strong faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Today, Kerry began at the beginning, which, for him was a military hospital in Aurora, Colorado.
KERRY: I was born in the west wing!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) CROWLEY: Kerry's journey will take him to seven cities, most of them in battleground states, but Kerry's campaign calls it America's freedom trail. The trail ends in Boston midweek.
ZAHN: And Candy Crowley joins us now from Boston.
Candy, you have covered a bunch of these conventions. I've been right there with you. Have you ever seen the extraordinary security precautions that are in place for this one?
CROWLEY: Certainly not this early.
I mean, you have to remember, this is Friday. The delegates are beginning to come in, but most of them are arriving on Sunday night or even Monday morning. One of the reasons I'm sitting here in the Boston bureau is that they shut down the FleetCenter and various parts around it to do a security sweep and it's Friday and no one is even there but us. So, you know, they have shut down parts of the waterway.
They have rules about which planes can fly into Logan. So I've never seen it quite like this. We've got a couple of our friends are out at Fenway Park tonight. And they said that the cop presence there was so heavy, that those that were going in that clearly go to a lot of the games out there were remarking that they'd never seen so many on-the-ground cops as there are right now.
ZAHN: And it is not just the threat of an attack from a terrorist group. There is also concern about protesters and methods they might use to disrupt the convention, right?
CROWLEY: Right. I mean, that's the latest that we've heard. Jeanne Meserve and Kelli Arena have done a lot of reporting on this. And basically what they found out was that there was sort of an unconfirmed report that reached the level of the FBI. And then they put out a release on it which said that there may, in fact, be some domestic disturbances along the lines of, you know, perhaps a small molotov cocktail, some kind of incendiary trucks in media trucks.
That obviously would be to disrupt the convention, described by one of these sources to Jeanne Meserve as anarchists. So those are sort of the homegrown types. So -- and you always have those in conventions. And we have sort of superimposed on that, of course, Iraq and al Qaeda and all of those things.
ZAHN: A lot to be concerned about.
Well, good luck with the coverage. Candy Crowley, thanks for the update.
ZAHN: And joining us now in Washington, Peter Beinart of "The New Republic." And here in New York with me, John Fund of "The Wall Street Journal."
Good to see both of you.
All right, John, next week, the pressure is on John Kerry to map out his plan for national security, the issue which polls seem to indicate the major issue he's losing to President Bush on. In fact, the most recent CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows that 56 percent of those asked think Bush would handled terrorism better, compared to 38 percent for Kerry. So what does John Kerry have to do to distinguish himself?
JOHN FUND, COLUMNIST, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, to be fair, part of John Kerry's problem is that he's not president. And a lot of people like to stay with the horse that's in office.
John Kerry voted for the war in Iraq. He has not distinguished himself with a dramatically different plan on how to handle Iraq or the war on terror. That's the issue that we have to wait for his acceptance speech. What he is going to tell us that is going to be distinctly different from how Bush has handled these issues?
ZAHN: Do you think we'll hear anything different, Peter?
PETER BEINART, EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": I think there is a possibility.
I think what John Kerry needs to do is lay out how he would wage the war on terrorism differently than President Bush, but just as aggressively. He cannot allow himself to be painted as the guy who doesn't really want to go after the bad guys unless we have France's permission. And he can do that. He's made very pointed criticism of the way the Bush administration was not aggressive enough in going after Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda at the end of the Afghan war.
He can talk about how they have not been aggressive enough in going after the Saudis, who have sponsored so much terrorism. There are openings for him, but he can't get painted as the guy who will wait to go after al Qaeda until we get permission from the Europeans.
ZAHN: Next week, make-or-break moment for John Kerry during his prime-time appearance at the convention? He says no.
FUND: Well of course it's not a make-or-break appearance, but it is the best opportunity he has to introduce himself to the American people. A lot of people don't know John Kerry well, and to get over the stiff and humorless image that he has developed with a lot of people.
That's why we keep hearing these stories that he's going to loosen up and be much more relaxed.
ZAHN: Who is going to help him at the convention? Is Al Gore going to help him, Bill Clinton?
Peter? BEINART: I think John Edwards will help him, as John Edwards always has. And I think Bill Clinton will probably help him as well by reminding people that the 1990s were a pretty good time in America.
But ultimately he has to do it himself. I think John is right about that and I think he will probably benefit from low expectations. Let's face it, this guy has not given a really good speech since the primaries, if then. And I think that has left the expectations very low. And I think he will probably exceed them.
ZAHN: If you were stacking the deck for this convention, would you be putting Jimmy Carter? Would you be putting Al Gore on?
FUND: You know, it doesn't much matter. I certainly would not put Al Gore front and center, because that is bringing up a lot of painful memories about how the last campaign was mishandled.
I think John Kerry's tour in which he waits until Wednesday to get to the convention and is going to be seen in all kinds of friendly settings and not just in liberal Massachusetts is probably a very smart idea. He's going to arrive late. He's going to build up suspense. And then it's up to him to give the speech of his life.
ZAHN: And we will be covering that quite closely.
John Fund, Peter Beinart, thank you both.
FUND: Thank you.
ZAHN: And coming up next, the president's strategy to get some African-American voters out of the Kerry column.
Then, behind the scenes, moments in the race for president past and present from "TIME" magazine archives a bit later on.
ZAHN: Today, President Bush went to the National Urban League's convention in Detroit to ask African-Americans for their vote, something he had trouble getting in the last election, with just 9 percent of that vote.
Fast-forward today and the polls look pretty similar. A recent BET/CBS News poll shows Democratic Senator John Kerry with a 69-point lead over the president among African-American voters. Well, the president's pitch came one day after Senator John Kerry's speech to the Urban League.
Our Jason Carroll is in Detroit with more.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Both came hoping to gain ground in the African-American community. Although they tackled some of the same issues, each candidate took a different approach in addressing this skeptical audience. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're thankful for the opportunity to pray.
CARROLL: A prayer proceeded President Bush's speech, a move which, among this religious-leading crowd, was meant to establish him even more as the faith-based president.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And they asked me before the speech whether or not I would object to a prayer, I said absolutely not. All of us need prayer.
BUSH: And I appreciate that.
CARROLL: John Kerry tried to rally the group, perhaps his way of addressing critics who call him lackluster.
KERRY: But I want you at the table with me in a full partnership to build a stronger America at home and an America more respected in the world again.
CARROLL: The crowd here is overwhelmingly Democratic, but Pauline White and Richard Marion say that doesn't mean Kerry should expect their vote.
RICHARD MARION, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Just because you're a Democrat doesn't mean you're automatically going to get the vote anymore.
PAULINE WHITE, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: We care about issues more than we do personalities and parties.
CARROLL: President Bush was very direct.
BUSH: Does the Democratic Party take African-American voters for granted?
CARROLL (on camera): What did you think of that question when the president raised that question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: pearls I think it's a question that most African-Americans ask themselves, especially during this voting time.
WATSON HAYNES, VOTER: The truth of the matter is, is that Democratic Party does take the black vote for granted, have always done it. I was a Democrat. I switched parties years ago because of the frustration with being a Democrat and not being listened to.
CARROLL (voice-over): A small sampling of attendees who heard those speeches told us about issues most important to them.
HAYNES: Education and the economy.
GARLIN GILCHRIST II, VOTER: Public education and African- American enfranchising.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say, education and health.
TIFFANEY HUNTER, VOTER: And I'm education and economy as well.
CARROLL: Education ranks high, and it's no wonder. By age 17, on average, black students are more than three years behind white students in reading and math.
BUSH: If you believe schools should meet high standards instead of making excuses, take a look at my agenda.
KERRY: Don't tell us that crumbling and overcrowded schools and underpaid teachers are the best that we can do.
GILCHRIST: I could call this education talk almost a draw.
HUNTER: Everyone is always saying what they're going to do. And I'm just all about doing what you say you're going to do.
CARROLL: Economic development for African-Americans is also an issue that resonates here. The unemployment rate among blacks is 10.1 percent. That's nearly double the national average.
BUSH: If you dream of starting a small business and building a nest egg and passing something of value to your children, take a look at my agenda.
KERRY: The halves have more and they're more working poor, more people working harder. And the struggle now is to make America fair again.
HAYNES: Kerry says I can. I can. I can. I possibly can. Let's think about it. Bush, on the other hand, said, I did. This is what I've done. Here is my record.
GILCHRIST: I feel that Bush's track record is honestly quite weak on enfranchising African-Americans, especially in urban areas.
CARROLL: The president's relationship with the NAACP has been strained over the years. Last week, once again, he turned down an invitation to speak at their conference. But the president gained points for showing up here at the URBAN LEAGUE convention and solidified standings with people like Pamela Thomas (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a committed George W. Bush person and I will be supporting the person, but, at the same time, I do feel that Kerry did touch upon most of the issues that affect African-Americans here.
CARROLL: Most of this politically diverse group agrees. Both candidates pushed the right buttons, but neither pushed them hard enough.
ZAHN: That was our Jason Carroll reporting from Detroit.
Joining me now to discuss President Bush's efforts to reach out to African-Americans, one of his campaign advisers, the Reverend Joe Watkins, pastor of the oldest African-American Lutheran church in Philadelphia.
REV. JOE WATKINS, BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Let's talk about some of those numbers. And they are striking when you look at what polls are showing today, that BET/CBS News poll that 79 percent of African- Americans say they will vote for John Kerry come November, only 10 percent for the president. Why does the president poll so low among African-Americans?
WATKINS: Well, it's not November yet, Paula. Remember that.
In his first campaign for governor in Texas, the president got less than 10 percent of the African-American vote. But in his second campaign for governor, he got about 30 percent of the African-American vote. So I think that, as the president continues to talk to the community, talk to Americans and in particular African-Americans and he gets his message out so they can hear it, that people are going to vote for him.
You're going to see a larger percentage of African-Americans vote for him than last time.
ZAHN: But you have to concede, we would be talking about a glacial shift if he were to outnumber the John Kerry vote. What do you think he has got to do, particularly when you heard people at the Urban League convention saying we don't think this president understands what is going on in our communities economically; he hasn't broadened his reach enough?
WATKINS: Well, he certainly does.
He understands that the keys to changing your situation, to helping the African-American community to be everything that it can be economically is to support education, which he's done with the Leave No Child Behind Act, which really does level the playing field for kids, especially kids in the inner cities, by bolstering economic development and entrepreneurship, which he's done with the tax cuts and the incentives for small businesses to grow and to really prosper, which is wonderful, and, likewise, by strengthening families, because in African-American communities, the breakup of the family unit has been devastating for us.
And this president understands the importance of strong families.
ZAHN: Do you think the African-American community, by and large, has felt the benefits of the Bush tax cut?
WATKINS: I think so.
I also think the African-American community heard the president loud and clear when he said today, are you going to be taken for grant? Are you being taken for granted by the Democratic Party? Does the Democratic Party automatically deserve your vote?
If you look at the president and John Kerry and you contrast their records, there is no comparison. John Kerry is a Democrat. He has no real relationship with African-Americans; 20 years in the Senate, no African-Americans on his Senate staff, just recently named a black person to his campaign. President George Bush, he has named the first African-American to be secretary of state, has an African- American national security adviser who is a woman as well, and has two African-American Cabinet members.
ZAHN: You make a good point, but there are people who say that that doesn't necessarily translate to improvements in our community. Why do you think the black community has voted in large blocks for Democrats historically? Why that alignment?
WATKINS: Well, that has been our -- That has been a history. The Democrats have certainly worked hard to get our vote, and now Republicans are working hard to make sure that the message gets out, because when African-Americans hear the message of this president and this party they're going to come out in larger numbers for the Republicans.
ZAHN: A lot of controversy over the president not speaking before the NAACP, and I want to put up on the screen what the president of that organization had to say about that.
Quote, "For him to say that he doesn't want to be with us because we don't agree with him or because somebody made a reference to him that he didn't like is foolishness. If his mandate is that he will only meet with organizations that agree with him, then God save our nation."
Was it a mistake...
WATKINS: Absolutely not.
ZAHN: ...for the president to what some people of your organization, the NAACP, would say dissed them?
WATKINS: Absolutely not. I think he made the right decision not to attend the NAACP convention. I think the offer for him to attend was disingenuous. And I think that Kweisi Mfume and Julian Bond certainly poisoned the water with some of the venomous rhetoric that they had out before the convention started.
ZAHN: Does that mean you're no longer associating yourself with the NAACP?
WATKINS: No, the NAACP is at its best when it's fighting for people who are downtrodden, people of color who are downtrodden, and I support that. Organizations like the NAACP ought to be political, but they ought not be partisan. They ought not put African-Americans in the hip pocket of either political party, and that's what these leaders of the NAACP, today's leaders have done. ZAHN: But finally tonight, you know the NAACP, Julian Bond, in particular was pretty tough on the Democrats as well?
WATKINS: Well, he ought to be. They haven't done anything to deserve our vote automatically.
ZAHN: So it wasn't like they were just attacking the president?
WATKINS: Well, the Urban League has really led by example, and what I mean is that they've worked hard to foster a working dialogue with both political parties, and that's the way it should be.
ZAHN: Reverend Watkins, thank you for spending some time with us here in New York tonight.
WATKINS: Thanks for having me.
ZAHN: Still to come, a huge development in the Kobe Bryant rape case. That story after this short break.
ZAHN: Kobe Bryant's defense team won a big victory in court today. The judge ruled that key evidence about the sexual activity of Bryant's accuser will be admitted in Bryant's rape trial.
The evidence involves sexual relations the accuser may have had just before and after the alleged rape.
Joining us now from Palo Alto, California, is Court TV's anchor Beth Karas.
Always good to see you, Beth.
BETH KARAS, COURT TV ANCHOR: Thank you.
ZAHN: Is this a big deal?
KARAS: It is a big deal. Now, the judge is permitting any sexual activity separate from Kobe Bryant from the time she went to the hospital, 72 hours before that. She went to the hospital about 16 hours after her encounter with Kobe Bryant.
She already told the police, and we heard that cop testify at the preliminary hearing that she did have sex, consensual sex with someone using a condom two days -- approximately two days before Kobe Bryant. So now the jury's going to hear about that.
This is a big deal. It's an exception to the rape shield law, someone's sexual history. If the defense can make an argument that there is evidence of recent sexual contact, sexual intercourse, perhaps with someone else and not the accused. And, here, her genital injuries, they say, weren't caused by Kobe Bryant. They were caused by someone else, is the defense argument.
ZAHN: And the interest is in just the 72 hours in particular? KARAS: Yes. Yes. It's a 72-hour period, so it's just after her encounter with Kobe back to 72 hours. It's not going back a week, a month, a year, none of that. Just close in time to Kobe.
ZAHN: We mentioned at the top this is a big victory for the defense. Does this ultimately lead to this case being shut down?
KARAS: Well, you know, it is possible that the alleged victim is going to be very uncomfortable talking to the jury, being cross- examined about this. It's not going to be easy for her.
She could refuse to cooperate and say, "You know what? I just don't want to go forward anymore." Her lawyer recently said in papers, in arguments to the court just the other day, that she had actually considered not cooperating further.
It's not her decision. It's the D.A.'s decision, but in this type of case I suspect that the D.A. wouldn't want to force her to take the stand if she didn't want to cooperate any further.
ZAHN: You're a former prosecutor. You wouldn't do that, would you?
KARAS: Well, probably not. I mean, every case is fact specific. And I did not like it in domestic cases when women came in and said, "I don't want to cooperate any more."
I said, "Great, the next time you're going to come in dead, and then what am I supposed to do?" So I would try to convince them to cooperate. But in this case, I'm not sure I would force her.
ZAHN: So what does the prosecution do now to amend its strategy, given this judge's decision?
KARAS: Well, I can tell you right now, they're adamantly opposed to cameras, and the judge is going to rule on that August 1. I don't think this bodes for everyone hearing her. We would never see her on the stand. I don't think we're all going to hear her now.
But I don't think there is much they can do. They can just prepare her for the cross-examination that she's going to encounter.
But the reality is, Paula, that women are not having consensual intercourse and getting vaginal lacerations on a regular basis, unless it's rough sex. I mean, it just doesn't happen to us, and that's what happened to her. So for the defense to say someone else may have caused this, it's still going to be a tough battle for them.
ZAHN: Beth Karas, thank you for bringing us up-to-date in this very important development in the Kobe Bryant case. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, the final sentence in the Martha Stewart case. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may be his epitaph that he was the man who sent Martha Stewart to prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Douglas Fanueil gave Martha the call that started it all. His punishment straight out of this break.
ZAHN: Today, a federal judge sentenced the messenger in the Martha Stewart case. Douglas Fanueil had admitted 2 1/2 years ago he told Stewart that ImClone CEO was selling off his stock. He says he got that tip from his boss at the time, Stewart's broker, Peter Bacanovic.
What Martha Stewart did after that eventually led to a jail sentence for her and for Peter Bacanovic. Douglas Fanueil, however, will not share that same fate.
ZAHN (voice-over): He was the government's key witness and, today, Douglas Fanueil, Bacanovic's former assistant, was fined $2,000 for his role in the ImClone stock scandal that snared his boss and Martha Stewart.
Unlike Stewart, Fanueil admitted he made a mistake and apologized for that, saying, "I should have listened to my gut feeling."
MARTHA STEWART, FOUNDER, MARTHA STEWART LIVING OMNIMEDIA: Today is a shameful day.
ZAHN: A week ago, Stewart and Bacanovic were sentenced to five months in prison and five months home detention for lying about Stewart's 2001 sale of stock in the drug research firm.
JACK COFFEE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: I don't think the government would have had a case without Fanueil's testimony. Other people, even though they were very convincing to the jury, added on to Fanueil's testimony.
IRA SORKIN, SECURITIES LAWYER: Would they have been able to go to trial? Sure. Would they have been able to contain a conviction? Probably not.
ZAHN: The former assistant broker made a deal with prosecutors, telling jurors that he had accepted money and vacation time for Bacanovic in exchange for misleading investigators.
SORKIN: It's always in the government's best interest in a so- called white-collar case to have an insider, someone who was there, someone who can talk about what happened.
ZAHN: Fanueil, who handled the sale of the stock, had initially backed up Stewart and Bacanovic, telling investigators there was an agreement to sell Stewart's shares if the price of the stock dropped below $60. Later, Fanueil admitted that he had actually called Stewart to alert her to efforts by ImClone founder Sam Waksal to dump his own shares.
COFFEE: No one else in this case could have said, "I told Martha Stewart that the Waksals were dumping all their stock in ImClone." That was indispensable testimony.
ZAHN: Now that it's all behind him, Fanueil is working at a Manhattan art gallery and living quietly in Brooklyn. The experience, however, is likely to remain with him for life.
COFFEE: It may be his epitaph that he was the man who sent Martha Stewart to prison.
ZAHN: And joining me now for an exclusive interview, a man who knows this case from the inside out, the co-lead counsel for Douglas Fanueil, attorney Marc Powers.
MARC POWERS, ATTORNEY FOR DOUGLAS FANUEIL: Nice to be here.
ZAHN: Nice to have you with us.
Was Douglas Faneuil proud of what he ultimately did?
POWERS: I wouldn't say he's proud. I would say that he did what he felt was appropriate for him. And he feels that he can hold his head high today, knowing that he made a mistake, he rectified the mistake.
And with the judicial system allowing him to go forward with simply a fine today, being able to go forward with his life with his head high.
ZAHN: What do you say to his critics who think that this amounts to nothing more than a little slap on the wrist? After all, your client was the guy who lied to federal investigators in exchange for gifts from Peter Bacanavic.
POWERS: There's no doubt that there were some serious crimes that, in fact, had occurred here. But you know what? I think that Doug Faneuil earned the sentence that he obtained today.
Let's remember, this is a man that came forward in June of 2002 and walked into the prosecutors' to tell them, "I made a mistake. I did wrong." He did that all under -- voluntarily, when he was not under any threat of any kind. He did it all without any agreement in hand of any kind with the government.
He pled guilty to a misdemeanor, pursuant to a cooperation agreement. He then was involved in preparation sessions time and time again, assisting them as they asked, but always only in a straightforward, truthful way. And then he went to trial. At trial, he had to earn what ultimately was the result today. And that was to testify truthfully, straightforward -- with straight-forwardness and, as a result, he accomplished what he needed to.
ZAHN: There is also the perception, though, that you don't earn that unless you sell Martha Stewart down the river along with Peter Bacanovic.
POWERS: Well, you know what? I don't -- In terms of earning it, I don't look at a case like it's Fanueil and it's Martha Stewart.
You know, he went into the government, and because his conscience told him to do so, whatever the consequences were as to him. He wasn't looking at the consequences as to some other third parties.
And so he was doing -- he was rectifying a wrong that he had committed. And you know what? The judicial system recognized that. The prosecutors recognized that, and ultimately, Judge Cederbaum, in her fair and compassionate sentence today, recognized that by simply imposing a fine.
ZAHN: What does your client think of Martha Stewart's sentence?
POWERS: We think that the sentence was ultimately fair and compassionate in how she -- and that's where that is.
ZAHN: Can you tell us what he thinks of her as a person now? I mean, clearly, his life has been in this completely tumultuous state for over 2 1/2 years now because of any association he had with her.
POWERS: You know what? I think Doug is not happy for this whole idea and what it's done for anyone.
ZAHN: Did it need to go this far, you think?
POWERS: You know, we all -- I think Doug hoped that this was not something that was going to happen to anyone, but it did. And he's hopeful that he'll be able to move on with his life.
ZAHN: And he's pretty happy tonight, I would imagine?
POWERS: He certainly is. He certainly feels relieved.
ZAHN: Marc Powers, thank you for dropping by tonight. Appreciate the exclusive interview.
Our next guest was also in the courtroom for Douglas Fanueil's sentencing today, but she was working as a reporter. She co-authored the cover story for next week's "People" magazine, which hit newsstands today. Staff correspondent Sharon Cotliar joins me now.
Were you surprised by the decision today?
SHARON COTLIAR, STAFF CORRESPONDENT, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: No, I wasn't surprised. I think this judge thought that Doug Fanueil was a very good witness, that he did what he was supposed to do, and she didn't want to penalize him anymore.
STEWART: Can you give us an update on Martha Stewart tonight and her prospect of spending some time in prison?
COTLIAR: Well, I was told earlier this evening by her legal team that she is actually considering going to prison sooner, rather than later while also pursuing an appeal.
ZAHN: And what led to that change of mind?
COTLIAR: I don't know if it's a change of mind, so much as she's so eager to put this part of her life behind her and an appeal could take six months to a year. So I think she has a desire, really, to see what's best for her company, move forward as quickly as possible.
So it's something she's considering, I'm told.
ZAHN: And describe to us what kind of new information you found in working for this week's cover story on the whole Martha Stewart case.
COTLIAR: Well, apparently, Martha is very much looking forward, even a day after she was sentenced. She was already thinking about, well, if she goes to prison, how can she make it positive, talking about learning Italian, writing some books and reading books that she hasn't had a chance to read.
ZAHN: And how seriously is your understanding of her approaching this appeal? Does she really think it's going to happen?
COTLIAR: I think she wants to mount an appeal. I've been told repeatedly that her lawyers plan to pursue one. It's just a desire, I think, on her part to get through this, get it behind her, and resume her life as Martha Stewart before all of this.
ZAHN: And a final thought on the Douglas Fanueil decision today and how that fits into this overall story?
COTLIAR: I think for Douglas Fanueil, it's closing a chapter that was probably a very painful chapter in his life, so it's a great day for him, I imagine.
ZAHN: And how much bitterness do you think there might be on Peter Bacanovic's and Martha Stewart's part as they see this decision?
COTLIAR: Well, I think they certainly, you know, feel differently about what happened in this case than Douglas Fanueil does, but I'm not sure that they view it as really just -- he was not the only witness who sealed their fate.
ZAHN: You're absolutely right there. Sharon Cotliar, thank you.
COTLIAR: Thank you.
ZAHN: We look forward to seeing some of your reporting in the -- this week's "People" magazine cover story. Appreciate it. Coming up next, one more look at the race for the White House, the great American presidential campaign, through the lenses of "TIME" magazine. We'll be back in a moment. Please stay with us.
ZAHN: From Kennedy/Johnson, to Kerry/Edwards, some of the most memorable images from a dozen Democratic presidential tickets are featured in an exhibit at the Democratic convention in Boston.
They come from the archives of "TIME" magazine, which is owned by our parent company, Time Warner. And the magazine will give Republicans equal time with an exhibit at their convention in August, and we'll bring that to you as well.
Well, tonight, here is a look at 44 years of Democratic history.
ZAHN (voice-over): They are the Democratic campaign cover boys. The winners and the losers of perhaps the most hotly contested election in the world.
MICHAEL DUFFY, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: It's a very tough and grueling effort in our process, and only if you survive.
ZAHN: Michael Duffy is "TIME's" Washington bureau chief. The magazine has been covering presidential elections for more than 80 years. This year, they're showcasing much of that coverage in a photo exhibit at next week's Democratic convention.
DUFFY: What I love about all these campaign stories is that they always start very small and very lonely, and they end up in these massive crusades and carnivals. And it's just great to see it happen year -- cycle after cycle and year after year. And they always get big.
And some people live, and some people die. And some people survive, and some people get tossed out. And it's great to see the process.
ZAHN: The exhibit begins in 1960 with John F. Kennedy's electric campaign against Richard Nixon. Many behind the scenes moments: 34- year-old campaign manager and brother Robert in a hotel kitchen, discussing strategy and politics with what "TIME" writers called the bosses and king makers.
Then there are the images of the first televised presidential debate, which played a key role in Kennedy's victory. Jackie, anxiously watching from the wings. Then Jackie at another event, working the phones.
There were also the private moments: Jackie and Jack having a quiet dinner on the campaign trail; Jack having a moment alone, or at least he thought so. DUFFY: It used to be quite easy to get very close to the candidates 30 or 40 years ago and stay there. Then after the assassinations in the '60s, Secret Service protection began even in the primaries.
Getting a real, spontaneously genuinely real unscripted moment is -- it's a little like finding a needle in a haystack.
ZAHN: Despite the challenges, "TIME" photographers succeeded. Celebrities Frank Sinatra, Tony Curtis and Peter Lawford at JFK's 1960 election. Eleanor Roosevelt, the longest serving first lady, at her last convention. Ted Kennedy starting his drive for the White House in 1980 against Jimmy Carter.
Geraldine Ferraro on the congressional subway during the '84 campaign where she made history as the first female vice presidential nominee.
The very passionate, very surprising kiss that became the highlight of the 2000 convention. That was until late on election night, November 2000 when Al Gore retracted his concession.
And a campaign high for Senator John Edwards. And a low as he writes his withdrawal speech for his party's nomination for president.
Over the years, more photos that captured the spirit, the energy, and the excitement of the conventions.
DUFFY: The conventions of 50 years ago, which were literally political freefalls, and you never -- often didn't know who was even going to come out on the ticket, particularly in the No. 2 spot.
ZAHN: Nothing shows that better than this image of Paul Newman speaking his mind at the tense and tumultuous 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago.
What comes through in all these photos is the endless energy these candidates must have to campaign no matter where, no matter when. Whether it's in a coal mine, on a fishing boat, on a farm, in a soup kitchen, perched on a pickup truck, or even while jogging.
The candidates are out to convince the American public they're the one, that they should be the next president of the United States.
ZAHN: We'll be right back.
ZAHN: And that wraps it up for all of us this evening. Thank you for being with us tonight. We appreciate your dropping by.
Remember, starting Monday, CNN will bring you live coverage of the Democratic National Convention from Boston, which gets underway on Monday under unprecedented security, with threats being lodged from the inside and outside. CNN will cover the convention gavel to gavel.
Again, thanks for dropping by tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. Have a good weekend.
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