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"Gimme A Minute"

Aired April 16, 2004 - 08:30   ET


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. Dr. Sanjay Gupta's going to join us in just a few moments, talking about new research on children and sleep. They want to stay up late, but if you say yes too often, could you be driving them into a life of substance abuse -- a really strange link between the two things.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get to that, and also this half hour, some of those private details in the life of Jackie O. Kennedy insider Edward Klein has a new book out. Did he tell too much?

O'BRIEN: You know, she was such an incredibly, intensely private person.


O'BRIEN: And then you have her friends sort of -- I guess the only way to put it is dishing dirt on her 10 years after her death. And so I think the question has to be, are you really respecting this woman's wishes in her life by telling stories about her when she's no longer able to refute them?

HEMMER: That's why he's on. OK.

O'BRIEN: We are talking to Jack this morning as well, but first we're going to get to our top stories this morning. U.S. military and civilian officials are planning to meet today with leaders from Fallujah to find a way to end the violence there. Overnight explosions have rumbled through the Iraqi city. A military spokesman confirms that there is fighting there, but it is not at this point clear exactly who is involved.

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is promising that stepped-up efforts to find Osama bin Laden will succeed. General Richard Myers stopped in Afghanistan today during his tour of the region. He says the 2,000 Marines recently deployed there will be enough to help the other troops in the hunt. General Myers says that the troop number will likely go back down later.

NRA News launches today. It's a daily Internet talk show produced by an affiliate of the National Rifle Association. The group is hoping to spread its gun rights message nationwide. The launch coincides with the NRA's annual meeting. Vice President Dick Cheney is scheduled to be the keynote speaker tomorrow.

That little girl who survived up to 10 days alone after a terrible car crash is back at home now. Five-year-old Ruby Bustamante was rescued from a California ravine on Tuesday. Her mom was killed in the accident. Amazingly, the little girl suffered only minor injuries, and you can see she was smiling at the reporters as she was wheeled out of the hospital. Her prognosis is very good.

HEMMER: It's a big family, too.


HEMMER: So if there's family support out there, certainly she can find it.


HEMMER: It is Friday. It's time to be pithy, and it's time for "Gimme a Minute." In D.C., Jonah Goldberg with the "National Review Online." Good morning, Jonah.


HEMMER: Donna Brazile, CNN political contributor and a Democratic strategist, how are you, Donna?


HEMMER: Nice to see you. All right. Andy Borowitz, here with me in New York City. Good morning -- from the "New Yorker."

ANDY BOROWITZ, "NEW YORKER": Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: And also the author -- what's your book?

BOROWITZ: "Governor Arnold."

HEMMER: "Governor Arnold." Thank you, Andy.

Donna, let's start with you. Yesterday, it became official. Donald Rumsfeld says 20,000 will stay in Iraq. Are the American people going to hang in on this idea, or is this a political gamble at this point. What do you think, Jonah?

GOLDBERG: I think that they're going to hang in. I think Bush actually did a very good job of communicating why they have to hang in. And I don't think the number of troops over there is what bothers the American people, it's the number of casualties. If those numbers go down, I think the public will be behind it.

HEMMER: How do you see it, Donna?

BRAZILE: Well, for the families and for the troops, we are all heartbroken for them, but of course the American people will stand behind the troops, but it's time for the political leaders to figure out an exit plan.

HEMMER: What's on your mind, Andy, on this one? GOLDBERG: Well, I think it's a tough issue for President Bush. You know, some of these troops have been away longer than he was away from his National Guard Unit.

HEMMER: We demand an investigation.

Donna, let's talk about the critics for the 9/11 commission. Some are saying they are talking too much. Others are saying -- members of the commission that are saying, this was the idea in the beginning, we are trying to be transparent. How do you see it, Donna?

BRAZILE: Well, at times they ask like sportscasters, giving us play by play, and not jurors examining the evidence. I think they need to chill out a little bit and get back to their original mission.

HEMMER: Do you disagree or agree with that, Jonah? What do you think?

GOLDBERG: I agree entirely. They're on more morning talk shows than outcasts from "Survivor" or "The Apprentice."

HEMMER: What would the 24-hour cable nets do without it, right, Jonah?

GOLDBERG: I feel your pain, but they shouldn't accept the invitation. I think it's embarrassing. The best thing that's happened to them is that they stopped holding public hearings for a while.

HEMMER: Interesting. I'd love to hear you talk, though, Andy.

BOROWITZ: I think they are out there too much. You know, last night I saw this Commissioners Gone Wild video. It's just crazy.

HEMMER: On DVD soon, huh, Andy?

BOROWITZ: Yes, absolutely.

HEMMER: Listen, if you look at the news this past two weeks, it comes fast and furious, to the issues in Iraq, the 9/11 hearings, President Bush on Tuesday night with that national press conference in the East Room of the White House.

Jonah, the man who's lost in all this is John Kerry. It doesn't seem like he can buy a headline this week. Do you see it the same way or not?

GOLDBERG: Kerry? Who?


GOLDBERG: Oh, oh. I mean, this is the downside of having the primaries end early is that it's very difficult for him to make any news of any kind until he picks his vice president. George Bush is going to dominate the airwaves, because the events are going to dominate the airwaves. HEMMER: That's interesting. Donna, wrong move for the Democrats, or not?

BRAZILE: No, look, John Kerry is doing a great job. He raised over $6.5 million. He's on his game. And if breaking news take him off the front page, so be it.

HEMMER: Andy knows how to get a headline. What's up?

BOROWITZ: You know, forget about Kerry. The guy who has really lost this week is Kucinich. He's nowhere.

HEMMER: I think he's still campaigning in Hawaii, is he not, Andy?

BOROWITZ: I think so.

HEMMER: Under the radar. Donna, what did we miss this past week?

BRAZILE: Well, the president's news conference. There were some serious questions that he avoided answering or the reporters avoided talking about. I think the president needs to really tell us why he's going to appear in front of the commission with his second in command.

HEMMER: Jonah?

GOLDBERG: Well, speaking of avoiding questions, I think the fact that the Jamie Gorelick memo bombshell that was exposed during Attorney General Ashcroft's testimony has not gotten more coverage. The media has spent more time lambasting Justice Scalia for going on a duck hunting trip with Dick Cheney as a conflict of interest than the fact that Gorelick was responsible, in large part, for the wall separating intelligence and criminal prosecution.

HEMMER: Andy, how about it?

BOROWITZ: Bill, Dick Cheney has joined the cast of "The Simpsons," on strike. He's demanding a pay raise for doing the voice of President Bush.

HEMMER: True story, right?

BOROWITZ: It is true.

HEMMER: Thanks, Andy. Thanks, Jonah. Thanks, Donna. Donna, we like to see that you got the stripes memo today.


HEMMER: Nice. Going around along with Soledad and me here in New York. Have a great weekend, OK? Enjoy the good sunshine weather out there we expect as well.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: We can't help it if we're fashion forward, all three of us, right? I mean, it's a curse, we'll have to bear it.

HEMMER: I'm just imitating you.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to be perfect each and every day.

Still to come on "AMERICAN MORNING," they were the closest allies in going to war against Iraq. What plans do they have now to try to bring peace to that country? A preview of President Bush's meeting with British Prime Minister Blair is just ahead.

HEMMER: Also, could there be a connection between kids with sleep disorders and substance abuse? Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us today in a moment on that topic, after this.

O'BRIEN: And surprising new revelations about a glamorous first lady, remembering Jackie O. Stay with us on "AMERICAN MORNING."


HEMMER: Is your toddler sleeping like a baby? There's a new study out that says sleep problems in early childhood perhaps could lead to substance abuse in the teenage years. Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us here on house call here in New York City.

Make sense of this for us, if you could.


HEMMER: Soledad and I were talking during the -- it seems inverted. You could have sleep problems later in life, but perhaps they didn't start during childhood.

GUPTA: Well, let's work through this. My alma mater, actually, University of Michigan, doing the study. The premise was quite simple. There is a lot of studies showing that insomnia might actually lead to alcohol problems in adulthood. That's been well documented. But could it actually pose a problem earlier in life, as a toddler even, if you're having sleep problems at that point?

They decided to put this to the test as well. Between the ages of three and five, looking at the sleep problems or lack of sleep in toddlers, specifically how well they fell in and out of sleep and how well they were able to maintain sleep. What they found, if there were problems in those areas, two times more likely, 10 years later, in the pre-teen years, to develop alcohol, tobacco or illicit drug use.

Now, granted, the number is still small amongst all those groups, but twice as likely if you have these significant problems in sleep as a toddler. Now, no one is saying that lack of sleep leads to alcohol abuse. But it might be an important predictor. This is the point the researchers are trying to make.

HEMMER: What's the connection in all this?

GUPTA: Well, that's sort of interesting. You look at adults and you look at toddlers, you see if there's any similarities there. Could lack of sleep somehow lead to someone to make poor choices later on? Could it lead to them to develop dependence on alcohol to try and get them to sleep, to perhaps self medicate?

Perhaps the most interesting one (ph), the the thing I find most interesting in the neurosciences, is that part of the brain that's responsible for sleep also that part of the brain that's responsible for addictive behavior? That's where they're really focusing their attention. Is the reason that you stay up the same thing that might make you addicted to alcohol or drugs later in life? That's what they're really starting to sort of hone in on?

HEMMER: So if you're buying into the study and you're a parent at home right now, what's your advice you're giving to keep your kid on schedule?

GUPTA: Well, sleep is such a huge topic. It's a huge topic among adults and children. The big buzzword among sleep specialists is sleep hygiene. For your kids, it's practical advice. Set regular bedtimes, wake-up times for them, making sure that the time in between is adequate, they're getting an adequate amount of sleep. Avoid stimulating activities before bedtime. A possible important predictor later on ...

HEMMER: So, are you skeptical of this research that comes out of your alma mater or not?

GUPTA: I am always skeptical of everything, but I read through it. I think it's an important study. Look at the brain and see if there's the relationship there.

HEMMER: Well, you can go convince Soledad.

GUPTA: That's tougher. Soledad's hard. She's tough.

HEMMER: Thanks, Sanjay.

O'BRIEN: That's not true. I just am very skeptical, too. Thanks, Sanjay.

Well, it has been nearly 10 years since her death, but the name Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and her legacy lives on in America's hearts and minds. Edward Klein has written several books about the Kennedys. His latest work, "Farewell Jackie," is devoted to her final days, as the former first lady battles cancer.

Edward Klein is back with us, joining us this morning. Nice to see you again. Thanks for being with us.

EDWARD KLEIN, AUTHOR: Nice to be here. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You know, we talked before about just how incredibly private -- I mean, maybe obsessed is not quite the right word, but it's pretty darn close. How obsessed she was with her own privacy. And in the book, you do tell many of these intimate conversations. The last conversation, for example, she had with her children, when she told them -- well, not the last, but the conversation she had when she told them that she had cancer.

How could you possibly know -- it's not like she had her kids and Edward Klein in the room with her.

KLEIN: Well, she often had these conversations in front of other people, as well. In other words, some of the conversations in the hospital that she had with her kids were observed and recorded, as it were, by the nurses and the doctors whom I spoke to. But these conversations that I talk about are all very positive. The whole book is a very positive book. It's a loving portrait of Jackie in her final days, as she faced the end of life, and did this inward journey of self discovery.

O'BRIEN: And you in fact were a friend of the first lady's. At the same time, when you're gathering information from nurses and doctors, aren't they to some degree -- isn't it fair to say that they are betraying her, especially, again, when you consider just how much she protected her privacy.

KLEIN: That's true, but George Washington's wife, Martha Washington, protected her privacy by burning all of George Washington's letters. Jefferson burned all his letters. Great historic figures often do that, and Jackie, in my view, is a great historic figure. It's 10 years after her death, and now we have a new perspective on her enduring legacy for this country.

O'BRIEN: As you mention, the book is -- I think it's a very flattering portrait of the first lady.

KLEIN: It is.

O'BRIEN: But you have some embarrassing details. For example, you talk about Jackie having sex in an elevator when she was a young woman. You talk about an extramarital affair she has with a French diplomat. Why bring those things up when they don't necessarily add to the big picture of somebody's legacy.

KLEIN: It's a portrait of Jackie as a human being, a person who grew a great deal in her private and her public functions. And as she got older and more mature, she became a more contented -- she had a wonderful relationship at the end of her life with Maurice Tempelsman, her longtime companion, which contrasted with these very difficult relationships she had earlier in her life with men who often betrayed her.

O'BRIEN: Why did it take so long before her cancer was diagnosed? I mean, you've got to imagine she had access to the best health care in the world.

KLEIN: She did. But, you know, Jackie took such good care of herself. She was -- every day, she practiced yoga. She jogged around Central Park, watched what she ate, and when they originally diagnosed her, after she had a fall from a fox hunt, they thought her lymph nodes were a result of some sort of infection, that they were inflamed. But it was only six weeks later that a doctor did a CAT scan and discovered she had non-Hodgkins lymphoma.

O'BRIEN: You write that she planned her death to the last detail. Give me an example of some of the things that she planned.

KLEIN: When she realized that all was really hopeless and the doctors kept saying, well, try some more chemotherapy, Jackie said, no, I want to go home to die, by which she meant she wanted not to die in some antiseptic hospital room, but at home, in her own bed, surrounded by the books that she loved, the people that she loved. She planned everything, from the music that played in her room, which was a Gregorian chant, to who was going to be invited to her own funeral, who would give the elegy. There wasn't a detail that she left untouched.

O'BRIEN: And many would say not a detail that you've left untouched in your new book, which is called, "Farewell Jackie."

It's nice to see you, Ed. Thanks for coming in again ...

KLEIN: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: ... to talk to us. We appreciate it.

Still to come this morning -- months after a much-heralded CD price cut by one record company, they're playing a little bit of a different tune. Andy is going to join us with details, coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."


O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CO-HOST: Universal Music was bragging a year or so ago that it was cutting CD prices. Well, that's all changed, and the same company apparently is signing an artist to the label that won't be eligible for parole until 2009. Andy Serwer's "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Remember Folsom County Prison?


CAFFERTY: Folsom Prison Blues.

SERWER: Yes, a little bit like that.

CAFFERTY: Johnny Cash.

SERWER: Yes, Johnny Cash. A little bit like that, only a new twist. Let's talk about Universal Music. You know, Bush partisans might accuse this company of flip-flopping. I'll tell you why.

Eight months ago, they shocked the music industry by cutting the price of CDs. Well, now, they're raising them again. That's a flip- flop, right, Jack?

CAFFERTY: It sure is.

SERWER: Universal, the largest record company in the world. They've got Sting, they've got Sheryl Crow, Eminem, U2, Sir Sting -- I don't know why they ever knighted him, but that's another story. They did.

The price of CDs, the wholesale price went down to $9.00, and now they're going to raise it to $9.50. The reason it didn't work was because retailers like Tower Records, they pocketed the difference instead of passing it on, because they need money badly, very badly. So that's why it didn't work.

CAFFERTY: Didn't Tower go bankrupt?

SERWER: Yes, they did. They did.

CAFFERTY: So that didn't work, either.

SERWER: Let's talk about this Universal -- another story with Universal. They signed a new artist, a guy named Shine, a rapper. That's not a story. There he is. He's doing his thing.

O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, I have this CD.

SERWER: Jack does not have this CD.

CAFFERTY: Yes, but I'm getting it.

SERWER: Well, listen to this. He's getting it, because what makes this story so interesting is that Shine is in prison. He's up in Danmora (ph). He's doing 10 years in jail for assault in connection with -- remember that shooting in the Manhattan nightclub in 1999 with Sean "Puffy" Combs. He was involved in that and ...


SERWER: Yes, well, J. Lo was also perhaps involved.

O'BRIEN: Don't bring him up on the J. Lo thing.

CAFFERTY: She was there in the nightclub.

SERWER: Well, I'm not clear on the details. Yes, I think she might have been. But anyway, so was Shine, and Shine actually is in jail, so they went up and signed this guy. He's not eligible for parole until 2009.

CAFFERTY: So the deal went down like this. J. Lo and Puffy beat the rap and they told Shine, you go do the 10 years, and when you get out, we'll give you a record deal.

SERWER: Actually, he's not -- apparently, there's a rift between him and ...

O'BRIEN: Oh, Hemmer and I hadn't even thought of that. Wow, you go right there, don't you?

SERWER: Yes, right. He knows how this business works.

CAFFERTY: It's a theory, as they say.

SERWER: It is a theory.

CAFFERTY: What about the markets?

SERWER: Yesterday was a mixed picture, and today it looks like things are going to be heading down a little bit at the open. There's your official mixed picture. And this morning, we've got housing starts actually very good. IBM, mixed. Nokia's bad. So that's more mixed.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, sir.

SERWER: You're welcome.

CAFFERTY: Andy Serwer. "Cafferty File" now. The Body may try to be the leader of the free world. Former Minnesota Governor Jessie Ventura, who is currently teaching at Harvard, which speaks volumes, Soledad, about her ...


O'BRIEN: Well, we have no comment.

CAFFERTY: Says he's considering an independent run for the White House in 2008, but he's worried the job might be too confining. He sold Associated Press, "The part that would bug me," this is a quote, is, "I wouldn't be able to get up in the night and drive to the 7-11 for a Slurpee, not without them blocking off the roads."

He says he will decide next year and ...

O'BRIEN: You get people to do that for you. That's why you get to be president.

CAFFERTY: Yes, you tell the guy, go down and get me a Slurpee and wake me up and give it to me.

HEMMER: Yes, what flavor.

CAFFERTY: But he's teaching at Harvard.

A codename for Osama bin Laden got some U.S. troops very excited. It all began when a French commander decided that bin Laden's codename should be Homard. That means lobster in French.

HEMMER: Well, that makes sense.

CAFFERTY: Now, according to the French newspaper "Liberation," the guy didn't realize that the codename also sounded a lot like Omar, the first name of the mullah who led the Taliban. U.S. intelligence agents monitoring the French communications when they picked up this codename and immediately decided it might be about the Taliban as opposed to the crustacean. Lobster is one of the things that was banned under the rule of the Taliban.

You don't find this stuff in the "Wall Street Journal."

HEMMER: That makes sense, then.

SERWER: Not many lobster living in Afghanistan ...


CAFFERTY: I've got one more here.

O'BRIEN: All right. Oh, really?

CAFFERTY: Jim Pansies (ph).

O'BRIEN: I said, "Oh, really?"

CAFFERTY: Jim Pansies (ph) could teach us the difference between -- and then we'll get back to the Mickelson interview right after I'm done. Jim Pansies (ph) could teach us the difference between boys and girls. The British research journal "Nature" reports girl chimps usually spend much of their childhood close to their mothers. They learn the tasks that the mother does. Although male chimps also follow their mothers around, there's a difference. The males usually go off and play, and they don't learn the finer details of the jobs, the work, things like fishing and other things that the chimps do.

It may be worth noting that humans and chimpanzees share about 99 percent of the same DNA.

HEMMER: It explains everything.

O'BRIEN: Clearly worth noting, all the girl chimps are doing all the work, right?

CAFFERTY: But so far, it's only in the chimpanzee community. Maybe we could work on getting it transferred over.

Jesse Ventura, teaching at Harvard, does that do anything?

SERWER: What does he teach there, by the way, does anyone know?

O'BRIEN: Probably political science.

CAFFERTY: Soledad is an alumna of Harvard.

SERWER: Maybe he's a wrestling coach.

O'BRIEN: And a very proud one, and I'm sure I would sign up for one of his classes ...

HEMMER (?): But you're not defending this, though, are you?

O'BRIEN: I think it's a good thing when there are opportunities for people to expand their horizons ...


HEMMER: Let's break here. In a moment, the president and British Prime Minister Tony Blair meeting today at the White House, looking for common ground on Iraq. That meeting just about 60 minutes away. We'll go there live in a moment, right after this. Top of the hour, here.



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