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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Analysis of Seiler False Abduction Case; Interview With Ozzy, Sharon Osbourne
Aired April 2, 2004 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASST. POLICE CHIEF NOBLE WRAY, MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT: We do not believe that there is a suspect at large related to the second reported abduction. So we do not believe that there is a suspect at large, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Was a Wisconsin co-ed's claim she'd been abducted bogus? And if Audrey Seiler lied about this supposedly armed and dangerous kidnapper, should she be punished?
On the scene in Madison, Tony Galli of WKOW-TV. Also in Madison, a friend of Audrey's and her boyfriend's roommate, Adam Morris. Plus Court TV anchor and former prosecutor Nancy Grace. In Atlanta, another regular, defense attorney Chris Pixley. And to help us make some emotional sense of a strange story, psychotherapist Dr. Robi Ludwig. After that, Jane Velez-Mitchell of "Celebrity Justice" with the latest on the Michael Jackson child molestation chase. While the king of stuff (sic) has been strutting his stuff in Washington a secret grand jury has been hearing confidential testimony in California. Then: A freak accident nearly killed Ozzy Osbourne. He and his outspoken wife, Sharon, talk about a dramatic brush with death. And then an exclusive announcement about their family. All that and your phone calls next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Don't forget, when Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne appear tonight in a little while, they're going to have a special announcement to make for the first time announcing it tonight on this program.
Let's go to Madison, Wisconsin. Tony Galli, will you bring us up to date. What's the latest on this bizarre story.
TONY GALLI, COVERING AUDREY SEILER CASE FOR WKOW: Well, the latest -- some of it you already know, Larry, and that is that during two news conferences today, Madison police officials revealed that they believe, after this exhaustive -- first a search and then a search for a suspect, that Audrey Seiler fabricated this tale of abduction. Madison police officials point to the fact that Seiler has had inconsistencies in her story. They also physically displayed household items -- a rope, a knife, duct tape -- that they say, based on surveillance footage from a local store, Audrey Seiler purchased before she was reported missing, and then they found some of those items after she was rescued. And Seiler had maintained that these items were used to help in abducting her.
So many inconsistencies, and still rather startling, the extent of the situation involving Audrey Seiler. And now -- and we'll be discussing this certainly. The big question in Madison, Wisconsin, is how will the criminal justice system judge Audrey Seiler?
KING: Adam Morris, you're a friend of her boyfriend. You were on with us the other night. What do you make of all this?
ADAM MORRIS, AUDREY SEILER'S BOYFRIEND'S ROOMMATE: It's really no -- the first thing on our minds is that Audrey's safe and she's back with us. The rest of this stuff will sort itself out. But we're just -- I mean, we're still thrilled that she's OK, and we're here supporting her.
KING: Yes, but if the story is true, aren't you and your friend, especially, her boyfriend, a little concerned that something may be the matter with this girl?
MORRIS: I'm sure the police will get to the bottom of this and -- I mean, we'll have time to figure everything out. But I mean, No.1 is that, I mean, the best-case scenario that she came back alive, has been reached.
KING: Did you notice anything, Adam, peculiar about her at all?
MORRIS: I mean, I don't really want to comment on the subject too much. She's always been an amazing girl. I've never noticed anything strange about her. I mean, I know her pretty well, and she's just an amazing girl.
KING: Nancy Grace, you've prosecuted a long time. Ever had anything like this?
NANCY GRACE, COURT TV: No, Larry, I've never had anything like this before. I agree with your last guest. My first response was just thankful that we didn't have another case like Chandra Levy or Elizabeth Smart, that this girl came home alive and unhurt. But then, Larry, you've got to take into account the dozens and dozens of volunteers, cops with their guns drawn, mucking through swampland in the cold, in the dark, with their flashlights, the money, the effort everyone put forth to try to find this girl. This is a 21 -- a 20- year-old person. She is an adult. She's not a child lying on the floor trying to get attention, throwing a tantrum. And there are consequences to what she has done.
KING: What would the charge be, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, specifically, in that jurisdiction, it would be a misdemeanor crime, if it is used, that requires about nine months behind bars or two years probation. It's called lying to cops or giving false evidence. Also, the prosecutors could take each and every statement she made and prosecute them individually, and each act, such as the rope, the cough syrup, the duct tape, all of that that she used to convince them.
KING: Yes. But...
GRACE: I don't think that's going to happen, though.
KING: And not a felony, though. It's not a felony in Wisconsin.
GRACE: No, not a felony, but I do think she will be prosecuted.
KING: Chris Pixley, how would you -- if you were retained as the defense and she were prosecuted, as Nancy says, how would you deal with it?
CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think you have to do a couple things, Larry. First of all, while Adam and others who know her don't see that there's any indication that she has a mental health problem, you know, when someone goes away for four days and is found cold and dehydrated after braving the frigids of the Wisconsin wilderness, there's something amiss here. And I would immediately move for a psychological evaluation, just to see that she is competent to face charges. Now, the threshold for legal competence is fairly low, in truth, but I think you owe it to your client in these circumstances...
PIXLEY: ... to do that, first. And then, you know, secondly, I agree with Nancy, if she is charged -- and I think she's likely to be charged -- she's not likely to face jail time. And I think one of the things you need to do is get in there with the district attorney quickly and try to plea bargain to see that she doesn't do any jail time.
KING: Dr. Ludwig, what's your read, again, from afar and just from the slim facts you know?
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: A couple of things. For people who tend to falsely accuse or make allegations about crimes, they tend to be lonely. There's a strong desire for attention, to feel loved, to closely identify themselves with being a victim and all that goes with being a victim, which is special care and special attention. On the more sinister side, it could indicate some type of personality disorder, a need to be famous, a way to earn money, to do the talk show circuit. I mean, as we can see, she is getting national attention. So that would be the more sinister explanation.
KING: Tony, did she not report being struck a while back by someone else?
GALLI: She did report that, Larry, and that was just last month. It was a very extraordinary event for the Madison community that someone -- an unknown person would attack someone for no known motivation. And that police report has not been released. We have requested it. Today we also asked police officials if their discoveries related to the alleged abduction also led them to any more knowledge about what happened with that attack, and they would not comment on that. But that is still the subject of much rumor and also attempts by news organizations to get to the bottom of that. And I think that speaks to some of the feeling in the Madison community. During this entire ordeal, there was a sense on the part of many people that there could have been a student, like many of the other 40,000 students, who was taken against her will in a place that has a low crime rate and is generally considered safe.
GALLI: And that impression was left out there, and I think people want more answers not only about this current event, but also about what happened in February.
KING: Adam, what is her boyfriend, your friend, telling you?
MORRIS: I haven't spoken to him today. I'm sure he is, you know, thinking of her and in contact with her, if possible. And you know, I'm sure he's -- he's still happy that she's alive and back.
KING: Do you know where she is, Adam, now?
MORRIS: No, I have yet to see her since she's been found. And you know, we'd like -- all of us would like to talk to her. But I'm sure she knows that we are all here supporting her.
KING: When will you speak to your friend?
MORRIS: To Audrey?
KING: No, your own -- her boyfriend, your friend.
MORRIS: Oh, Ryan? Hopefully, tomorrow. But I can't say for sure.
KING: Nancy, would you, as a prosecutor, have her psychologically examined before you brought charges?
GRACE: Sure, but the only real defense would be something akin to insanity, which is very difficult to prove. But Larry, here's my prediction. This girl is not a rapist. She's not a murderer. She's not a child molester. But she's got to be punished. Can you imagine telling all these cops, No, you can't go home tonight. You got to pull a second shift to go look for this girl. Forget about going home to your family and your wife. No. It's not OK. I predict she's going to be on the side of the road picking up trash in one of those orange vests. And she's going to have a lien put on whatever money she ever makes to pay back thousands and thousands of dollars we, the taxpayers, paid to find her laying in a field watching the geese!
KING: Chris, would you try to plea bargain it?
PIXLEY: You would try to plea bargain it. And I think one of the things that also needs to be pointed out here is one of the inconsistencies in her story, Larry, is she was telling the police that she had been abducted from her apartment. If this was somebody that was sitting in front of a television screen laughing at the investigation of her alleged abduction, she would have known that they had videotape of her. So clearly, she comes in dehydrated and cold and is found in a strange condition, something's gone wrong here for her, as well. And that that will come into play when you're talking about plea bargains and when you're talking about her potential prosecution.
KING: Yes. We still have a lot to learn, Dr. Ludwig, but we never know outside appearances, do we.
LUDWIG: No, we don't. And this girl has been described as a perfectionist. And very often, perfectionists are constantly trying to be perfect in order to be loved and to feel good about themselves. She could very well feel like a victim in life and it got expressed in this very extreme way.
LUDWIG: Perhaps she did poorly on a test, and this is her way of making an excuse for it. We'd really have to learn a little bit more about her to understand why she did what she did, if, in fact, she did it.
KING: Thank you, Tony Galli and Adam Morris. Nancy Grace, Chris Pixley and Dr. Ludwig will remain with us. Jane Velez-Mitchell of "Celebrity Justice" will join us, and we'll spend a segment talking about the Michael Jackson matter. And then Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne will be with us with a major announcement. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: We've got enough information that would confirm the inconsistencies in what took place, but we have a timeline that we're working on that we're still trying to piece together, almost a minute- by-minute where was she. We have enough information where we can dispute some of the claims that she has made, but we're -- we're not there yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Nancy, Chris and Dr. Robi Ludwig remain with us. Joining us now in Santa Barbara at the Santa Barbara courthouse is Jane Velez- Mitchell, the correspondent for "Celebrity Justice" in the Michael Jackson matter.
Jane, what happened today?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Well, today was a very good day for the defense, at least here in open court. Mark Geragos and Ben Brafman came in. They were ready for battle, and they won some key victories. First of all, the judge loosened the gag order, which means that Mark Geragos has a better chance now of petitioning to ask, Hey, Judge, I want to respond to some new attack on Michael Jackson. The judge is going to review it. If he decides that it's OK, he's going to say, Mark Geragos, go ahead and respond to that attack on Michael Jackson. Secondly, the judge ordered that the defense can get its hands on some key psychiatric records from this accuser's family. These records stem from an unrelated court case back in 2000, but apparently, they're not very flattering to the mother. So that's a victory.
And finally, they -- the defense came in with these books they said they had created that they say are chock-full of exculpatory evidence that Michael Jackson is innocent, and they are demanding that DA Tom Sneddon give these books that they've created to the grand jurors that are meeting about 70 miles away. Of course, we have no idea if the DA is going to do that or not, but it puts him on the spot.
KING: And there's an April 30 hearing to determine if there's enough evidence to try him, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, but it could be that the grand jury finishes before then and indicts Michael Jackson, in which case, that date would be moot.
KING: Nancy, what's your read on the events today?
GRACE: Well, I think the judge is bending over backwards to make a record, so if there ever is a conviction, it will not be reversed on appeal. The grand jury proceeding is in effect in nearly every jurisdiction in this country. What the defense wants is to basically have a mini-trial, but that is disallowed in grand juries. This is simply a charging tool, like police arrest someone and charge them. This is a charging tool. This is not a time for a full-blown trial. This is a grand jury of 19 to 30 people, not a petite jury of 12. I predict that the prosecution will put up some exculpatory evidence. They've invited Michael Jackson to come and testify, if he wants. So far, he's declined.
KING: Chris Pixley, what do you see in the -- in the events today?
PIXLEY: Well, I actually don't think that the judge is necessarily bending over backwards here. There are a number of reasons why the judge should be ruling in the way that he is. But I think what's most significant here is that when Nancy talks about exculpatory evidence, she's right. You know, the grand jury a proceeding is a proceeding that the DA conducts on his or her own, and they put in the evidence that they choose to put in. The difference is that in California, there's a fairly broad requirement that the DA does, in fact, put in front of the grand jurors any exculpatory evidence, evidence tending to prove the defendant's innocence.
And if you are interviewing witnesses that are coming out of that grand jury room and you get a sense that the prosecution's theory or the strategy that they're taking suggests -- is somehow misleading the jury or not revealing important evidence, then you have an absolute right in California to make that demand.
KING: And what charge can he respond to with the gag order released?
PIXLEY: Right now, it's yet to be seen exactly, you know, what this exception to the gag order is going to allow Ben Brafman and Mark Geragos to respond to. But I think that it is important because it recognizes the fact that there is a lot of publicity around the case that continues despite the gag order and that there are going to be leaks, and at some point in time, the defense may have a right to step forward and say, Look, this is an absolutely false story that came out today. Can we respond to it?
KING: Dr. Ludwig, because of the seriousness of this -- and you've dealt with cases of sexual abuse or pedophilia...
KING: ... isn't this something -- I know they say you can indict a ham sandwich, but isn't this something you better be very, very careful about?
LUDWIG: Absolutely. And that's why it's so important that Michael Jackson has a really good defense team.
But on another note, Michael Jackson self-protective skills are not very good or sophisticated because this is the second time he was charged with something like this. So after the first time, one would think he'd get kind of smart and say, OK, I'm not going to advertise the way I like to be with children. He has an over-idealization of children and childhood, and he leaves himself open for people who could try to extort money from him, if this is, in fact, not true. So hopefully, he will learn from it, if, in fact he is innocent.
KING: So in other words, Jane, he would have to -- let's say he didn't bother these children, he just liked being with him. He would have to change his lifestyle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what's so interesting about Michael Jackson is that nobody can change him. He does exactly what he wants. I mean, he is in Washington, D.C., this week, and he is creating such a tizzy, but he is really acting in a vacuum. He's sort of pretending that this criminal case doesn't exist. A lot of people say he's trying to deflect attention from it, but it actually draws more attention to it because it's like the big elephant in the room or the emperor's new clothes. If you walk around Capitol Hill pretending you're not the focus of a major investigation that the entire world is focusing on, it only draws more attention to it. For example, he says he wants to go to Africa. He can't go to Africa without the court's permission because he had to surrender his passport.
KING: Nancy, how dependent is the testimony of a child?
GRACE: Well, in this particular case, it is critical to the state's case. We know that this alleged victim is a cancer survivor. We know that he's got one kidney. You know, Larry, even if he was under sworn deposition on video and cross-examined by Mark Geragos and that was presented at trial, I can guarantee you it would have no effect. You've got to have the witness at trial. The state's case is depending on it.
And I can tell you so far that showing up has been the 1993 alleged victim, Corey Chandler (ph). We've all heard about him. Larry Feldman, the attorney, the psychologist that has dealt with the newest accuser, Jaime Masada (ph), and the young boy.
And another thing that a lot of people don't realize is, in this grand jury proceeding, the witnesses are brought -- I've put up a lot of grand jury cases. The witnesses come in one by one, and the grand jury -- you can have 40 people in there, Larry! They get to question each witness, including this little boy. So believe me, there is a thorough questioning. It's not just Sneddon asking a couple of questions. They all get in on the act!
KING: Chris, when you cross-examine the alleged victim, isn't it hard to be tough on a little boy?
PIXLEY: Oh, it's very difficult. Of course, remember that this is a 14-year-old now. And so this is different than most cases involving true child sexual molestation. And when I say "true," don't get me wrong. This is -- he was under 14 at the time. The charges are appropriate, if they're true. But this is a 14-year-old who is going to be treated, in the eyes of this jury, as a teenager. It's different than a child who can be confused by questions, who might get something wrong, who might have misheard. When this boy was interviewed by Mark Geragos, he was 13 years old. When he was interviewed by the investigators, he was 13 years old. When he was interviewed by the Department of Child and Family Services, he was a teenager. And that means that his inconsistent prior statements are going to be a difficulty for the prosecution. I wouldn't necessarily agree with Nancy whole-heartedly that they aren't going to matter. She's right about the grand jury proceeding. They will matter, though, at trial.
GRACE: Oh, I think they will matter, Larry. If there are inconsistencies, they'll matter.
KING: Dr. Ludwig, the attention this gets -- how does this affect other cases? Does it tend to draw attention to other cases?
LUDWIG: It could. It could go either way. It could draw attention to false allegation cases...
LUDWIG: ... where children falsely accuse, let's say, celebrities of doing inappropriate things, for attention. And/or it can highlight that celebrities certainly are being looked at and noticed and also have the potential to be victimized by the glare of the media. And so...
KING: Remember that famous play and movie, "Children's Hour," in which two young children accuse two women teachers of having a relationship? The children were lying... LUDWIG: That's right.
KING: ... but it ruined lives.
LUDWIG: Right. Right. And it can ruin lives. And hopefully, we're getting better at identifying when a child is lying. Either way, I think this child is a victim. He's either he's a victim of Michael Jackson and/or he's a victim of his parents using him for financial gain. So this child is a victim either way. And my...
KING: Thank you all very much. We're out of time. Jane Velez- Mitchell, Nancy Grace, Chris Pixley, Dr. Robi Ludwig.
When we come back, a major announcement from Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon Osbourne. We'll be taking calls for the Osbournes. Monday night, Senator Ted Kennedy. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON OSBOURNE: Just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Just look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, this is awesome.
S. OSBOURNE: Just look at this. Happy New Year.
S. OSBOURNE: Happy New Year. Let me tell you something. This is how we spent our first wedding, but he was in the hallway. This is my wedding night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this not my (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
S. OSBOURNE: Look at him. This is the photo of the night, isn't it? Twice in my life. I think I'm going to get (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and he's out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: They last appeared together on this show 13 months ago. A lot's happened sine then. We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE here in Los Angeles, Ozzy Osbourne, the rock singer turned reality TV star, and Sharon Osbourne, his wife and manager of more than 20 years, his reality co-star since 2002 on MTV's "The Osbournes."
We have a rather sad note to begin with. What happened today, Sharon?
SHARON OSBOURNE: Well, can I first say, before I say what happened, that we were initially coming here today to promote our third season of "The Osbournes." That's why we came in today.
KING: Which starts when, by the way? S. OSBOURNE: Which starts next Tuesday.
KING: The reality show.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes. And that's why...
KING: On MTV.
S. OSBOURNE: That's why we were here, for the -- you know, the premiere.
KING: Right. And we will -- and we'll talk about it.
S. OSBOURNE: But as usual with the Osbournes, you know, you never know what's going to happen next. And this morning, we woke up and an English tabloid had phoned through to our publicist to say that they had a picture of Kelly. And they said that they were going to say that it looked like Kelly was doing a drug deal, so they wanted our comment on it. So they sent the picture around to us, and that's what it looked like, Kelly was doing a drug deal.
KING: Kelly's how old?
S. OSBOURNE: Nineteen.
KING: They faxed this to you?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes. And so Ozzy and I got to her, asked her.
KING: She was home, Ozzy?
OZZY OSBOURNE: Yes, well, it's -- you never -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I've been -- it's been well known that I'm an abuser of drugs an alcohol for the best part of my life, but you...
O. OSBOURNE: You know, and I -- and I asked Kelly on several occasions, Are you taking drugs? And I tried (UNINTELLIGIBLE) And she said, I promise you, Daddy, no, nothing like that is happening.
KING: So what happened today?
S. OSBOURNE: Oh, so she admitted it after a lot of twisting. She admitted it.
KING: That she was a drug user.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: Of what drugs?
O. OSBOURNE: Pain pills, which -- which I was amazed you can buy on the -- on line now.
KING: Like, what pain pills? O. OSBOURNE: Vicodin, Fluorasid (ph), Norcoze (ph)...
S. OSBOURNE: But to be truthful, and for her, I mean, we still don't know. I mean, literally, Larry, a couple of hours ago, she was admitted into rehab. So I...
KING: A couple of hours ago tonight.
S. OSBOURNE: Tonight. Today. I mean, just...
KING: Did you go with her.
S. OSBOURNE: Nope.
O. OSBOURNE: I've been there before.
KING: What happens? Someone -- how does that work? What -- someone comes or...
S. OSBOURNE: No. Her brother took her. Her brother took her, and she went into...
KING: You don't say where?
S. OSBOURNE: I'm sorry?
KING: Do you say where she's in rehab?
S. OSBOURNE: She's -- you know -- do you know what it is? Everybody's going to find out anyway and...
KING: So you might as well.
O. OSBOURNE: ... a place called Promises down at Malibu.
KING: Promises in Malibu?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: And is she a willing contributor to this, or is she being forcefully taken?
O. OSBOURNE: Well, being a drug addict and an alcoholic myself, telling the truth comes very -- it doesn't come very easy, so you tend to BS a lot, you know? And so we were -- I can't believe that we were buying into it because she could tell instant stories, you know, and you'd go, Am I getting too heavy with her?
KING: They're good liars, right?
O. OSBOURNE: Oh, yes.
S. OSBOURNE: But to be -- you know, just to set this straight for Kelly, this all happened so quickly, within hours today. The picture came...
KING: But did she go willingly?
S. OSBOURNE: But it was so much of a shock that she was just, like, All right, I'll go.
KING: I got you.
S. OSBOURNE: So we didn't even have time, you know, for a good discussion.
S. OSBOURNE: It was just, All right, I'll go.
KING: But someone had to call to make up -- to make the arrangements for her to go, right?
S. OSBOURNE: I did.
KING: Let me get a break. We'll come right back. Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon Osbourne. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O. OSBOURNE: Kelly, can I come in? You never...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The reality show resumes Tuesday. That's still on schedule to resume?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: OK. Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon Osbourne are with us, announcing their daughter Kelly has been admitted to rehab at a place called Promises in Malibu, a very well known place. They don't even know what was with her, it was just all so quick, right?
O. OSBOURNE: We just had to take evasive action very quickly, because the amount of pills that was found in her bag was astounding.
KING: Oh, really?
O. OSBOURNE: There was a bag full of them.
KING: How long will she stay there for, Sharon?
S. OSBOURNE: I don't know, because, I mean, they must still be assessing her as we speak. I don't know.
KING: Is your son there with her? S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: Didn't he have a problem?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes, he did.
KING: Was he in rehab?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: Was he at that place?
S. OSBOURNE: No.
KING: He was at a different place.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: So he knows -- why didn't you go?
O. OSBOURNE: She's been there before.
KING: Yeah, but not with her daughter.
S. OSBOURNE: No, not with my daughter, and I can't say that I'm angry -- well, I am angry. I am angry, I am let down, I feel I've failed, again, he's failed again. It's just happened again, and I just can't take it, can't take it.
KING: You think somewhere you went wrong, Oz?
O. OSBOURNE: Well, you know, it's -- it's a -- I believe it's a family illness. Because I am a drug addict.
KING: Genetic? You think it's genetic?
O. OSBOURNE: I think it's in the genes, you know. And but it's -- when you asked Sharon said during the break, when you see the footage of the kids, you know, home videos, of your kids you don't think they are going to -- I thought that's sort of enough for me to never get anywhere near it. But in this day and age, the availability of getting drugs is incredible. You can get it online.
KING: And these are all prescription drugs?
O. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: But still obtained illegally. If you can get them online, is it illegal?
O. OSBOURNE: I don't know...
S. OSBOURNE: No, it's legal to get them online.
O. OSBOURNE: I'm not...
KING: What was the picture they were going to run?
S. OSBOURNE: Of this guy -- Kelly had pulled up in her dad's car, and she was giving him money, and he was taking the money.
KING: For an illegal drug or a legal...
S. OSBOURNE: I have no idea.
KING: That looks illegally obtained, the drugs.
S. OSBOURNE: I have no idea. And it's not like when we first received the picture this morning, it wasn't like -- you know, I was just like, is it true? Is this what it is? You know?
O. OSBOURNE: And literally, I walked out of the room and I came back in in the room and there was this big debate going on, and she was still denying it, you know.
KING: To you.
O. OSBOURNE: I...
KING: Was your son there, too?
O. OSBOURNE: No, he was down at Malibu.
KING: So he came up to get her.
O. OSBOURNE: Yeah.
KING: So she's denied it completely. What did she say the picture was?
O. OSBOURNE: She wouldn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) holiday snapshots.
S. OSBOURNE: Whatever. I mean, that's just -- that's irrelevant. The thing is, it's like, you know, here we are again, you know.
O. OSBOURNE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
S. OSBOURNE: Here we are again. We're meant to be talking about the show is coming back, it's great, it's this, and ...
KING: Ozzy is in good health again, are you?
O. OSBOURNE: Yeah, yeah, I'm recovered.
KING: Your recovery complete?
O. OSBOURNE: Oh, not complete, but I'm better than I was four months ago.
KING: Do you ever think you are cursed? Blessed and cursed?
O. OSBOURNE: For every good thing that's happened to the Osbournes, there's been an equal share of bad things. Sharon got cancer, I fell off the bike, my son went into rehab with drugs, now my daughter is going into rehab with drugs. You know...
S. OSBOURNE: Lawsuits.
O. OSBOURNE: Lawsuits, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) they invented "The Osbournes."
S. OSBOURNE: Everybody wants a piece. It's -- I don't know, you know what, sometimes, Larry, I've been asked that before, and I said, no, no, don't be ridiculous. I'm beginning to wonder.
KING: How will you -- how did they get rid of the problem with you?
O. OSBOURNE: Well, you don't get rid of the problem. The problem is always there. It's just I have now a daily reprieve from...
KING: How long since you have been on drugs?
O. OSBOURNE: Well, when I had the accident, I had to go on certain narcotics for the pain.
KING: Did that send you back into addiction?
O. OSBOURNE: No.
O. OSBOURNE: I have someone hold my medication, and as the doctor prescribed -- I am down to like one pill a day, and this Monday I will be off completely.
KING: So before the accident, how did they get you off of it? What happened at rehab?
O. OSBOURNE: What they do in rehab is teach you the disease of addiction and alcoholism. And they talk to you, whether you want to go these meetings that they have or -- I always found, when I stopped going to the meetings, I started drinking (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
KING: They were important to you. Do you still go to meetings?
O. OSBOURNE: Yeah. Yes.
KING: Have you ever been tempted, Sharon?
S. OSBOURNE: No, but I'm thinking about it now because I can't take all this crap that's happening. No. I -- I had fooled around when I was young, but I've never...
O. OSBOURNE: She was never the hard -- never like me, you know.
S. OSBOURNE: ... had addictive personality.
KING: At your worst, how bad was it?
O. OSBOURNE: Very bad. I'll tell you, I was hitting up like -- because in my day, you couldn't get it online and thank God, I would have been dead if I could have gotten it online.
KING: What pills were you addicted to?
O. OSBOURNE: Vicodin. Every kind you can think of...
O. OSBOURNE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) OxyContin.
KING: Is that worse than Vicodin?
O. OSBOURNE: Oh, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). My son was on that.
KING: Oh, yeah?
O. OSBOURNE: But there is a new pill every day. A new pill -- there's a new craze (ph) -- I've never taken ecstasy. I tried heroin twice. I did a lot of cocaine. I did a lot of LSD.
KING: Did you almost leave him?
O. OSBOURNE: Many times.
KING: What made you stay?
S. OSBOURNE: Because I love him, and I wanted our family to be together.
KING: How is your son doing?
S. OSBOURNE: So good.
O. OSBOURNE: He's nearly got a year of sobriety.
S. OSBOURNE: April 23 is his first sober birthday. So he's doing good.
O. OSBOURNE: Good for Jack. I'm really proud of him for doing that.
KING: So right now as we speak, she's undergoing what they might call indoctrination, right?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: They're taking down the facts, going over the situation?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: You know what the London tabloid intends to do?
S. OSBOURNE: Oh, they were going to run the picture... KING: Yeah, but you're breaking the story, thought, tonight, so others are going to beat them to it, aren't they?
S. OSBOURNE: They have already sold the picture. They bought the exclusive, this London tabloid.
KING: And it's going to run.
S. OSBOURNE: It's going to run Sunday, but they are already selling the picture around the world right now.
KING: Oh, they own the picture.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes. They bought the exclusive...
KING: So when this story is reported tomorrow, they will have sold the picture to whatever newspaper reports it.
S. OSBOURNE: Oh, yes, they are selling it today.
KING: We will take a break and include your calls for the Osbournes, Ozzie and Sharon.
Life! Don't go away.
O. OSOURNE: See you tomorrow.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
While I'm at the show, Ozzie, I think what he does is, he sleeps and rests and tosses around and misses me, and I miss him.
KING: We're back. Ozzie, you are one weird dude. The "Osbournes" MTV show resumes Tuesday. It will go on as scheduled. Reality TV occurring on MTV.
Ozzie is back. He is going to be touring in July. We will ask him briefly about the accident. Of course, the course of this program has changed somewhat in the last couple of hours.
Let's include some of your calls. Rancho Cucamonga, hello.
CALLER: I just wanted to make a quick comment and question, I wanted to tell Ozzie and Sharon, you are awesome parents. Sharon I think you are the epitome of a strong woman, and I hope you really don't feel bad about what's going on, this is just life and I pray for you guys.
I wanted to know, did Kelly go into rehab willingly, or did she put up a fight?
S. OSBOURNE: She didn't put up a fight, but I think it all happened so terribly quickly, there wasn't a chance for her to really digest what was going on with her. It happened within three hours.
I mean, she was confronted. She admitted it and then she was taken all within three hours.
KING: Were there pills found on her.
O. OSBOURNE: Well, I said to Kelly, do you have any other stash, and she said, no, dad, I don't have any. Then our maid says she found a bag full of pills under her bed. And what about what the maid said she found? And she said, okay, I will get some.
So the bag was delivered to me, and I opened this bag and it was full of pills. I mean, when I was using, it's impossible to take that amount, you know. There must have been 500 pills.
KING: And you never saw a sign?
O. OSBOURNE: Well, we did, but, I mean...
KING: You should have recognized it.
O. OSBOURNE: I did. And I thought maybe what she -- because she's so good at telling lies.
S. OSBOURNE: But it's not fair. You never want to believe it when it's coming from your own and they look at you, and it's your baby, and they say mommy, I'm not, believe me. You believe them.
KING: I sat with her at a dinner, she seemed fine.
Kansas City, Missouri, hello.
CALLER: Hi. I also want to echo I think both of you are good parents and don't blame yourself. I have also really admired Kelly since the beginning of the show, so I am actually a little shocked about this.
And I was wondering, given Ozzie's past with drug abuse, and Jack's past, I would have thought that would have been an example to not follow. I am just wondering, to you have any advice to parents as to how to prevent their children from various drug abuse.
S. OSBOURNE: I have no advice from anybody.
O. OSBOURNE: I always thought that we were on parents, and our children would always tell us the truth. And I said to Kelly just the other day, darling, if you have anything you want to tell me in secret that you don't want to tell mommy, please feel free and talk to me. And she said, daddy, what are you asking me these questions for, I am not taking drugs. And I go, OK.
S. OSBOURNE: But that's the drug, not the child. O. OSBOURNE: The availability of drugs these days...
KING: There's no advice you could give, or could you give?
S. OSBOURNE: I am a failure, how can I give anybody advice.
O. OSBOURNE: You are not a failure.
S. OSBOURNE: I can't.
O. OSBOURNE: You are just a...
S. OSBOURNE: What.
O. OSBOURNE: ...pair of parents, you know. I mean, it's every parent's worse nightmare. There is one good thing that we found out before something terrible happened.
KING: You're not kidding, because you can die from this.
O. OSBOURNE: You can. It'll kill you as good -- as quick as a bullet, you know.
KING: Atlanta, Georgia, hello.
CALLER: Yes. Forgive me, I'm a little hoarse, there's a lot of pollen in Atlanta. First off, I want to say the same thing. I'm a big fan of "The Osbournes." My question is, I, myself, was in rehab when I was a very young teenager, starting at the age of 14. I have been in and out up until the age of 19. And I understand what a big deal it is as a family. But I guess my question is, do you really think it's addiction, or do you think it's Hollywood and all of this thing for Kelly has happened so fast. Do you think it's just her age and the pressure of being in Hollywood?
O. OSBOURNE: I think if we were living in Timbuktu you could get drugs. If you want drugs -- it's not just Hollywood that sells...
KING: You don't think it's the setting.
O. OSBOURNE: No.
S. OSBOURNE: I don't know, I keep going back and forth and back and forth and going, is it...
KING: She is now addicted though, right?
O. OSBOURNE: I don't know.
S. OSBOURNE: I don't know. I can't -- I don't know how long.
KING: What did she say, did she tell you how much she uses?
O. OSBOURNE: You ask her a question, then you carry on the conversation, and you will ask the same question, and then, of course, you can get a bit more information, you know. So having been an alcoholic myself, I would go OK, I'll go in willingly. But she's very good.
S. OSBOURNE: And she's young. I do not know, and I -- the question, do I think maybe her situation that she's in right now where...
KING: Is social?
S. OSBOURNE: Social and what's happened to her in the last two years? I don't know whether I'm -- half of me thinks it is, and half of me thinks it isn't.
KING: Did she ever tell you today how much she was using when she finally admitted.
O. OSBOURNE: Well, she must have been using a lot, because...
S. OSBOURNE: No.
KING: Based on what you saw. Did she say today I have taken hundreds of pills.
O. OSBOURNE: No.
KING: Did she say anything? She just said I have used.
O. OSBOURNE: I walked out literally -- walked down stairs, and upstairs and there was pandemonium in the bedroom.
KING: Was it you and her.
S. OSBOURNE: No, there was her...
KING: Was there anyone else there?
S. OSBOURNE: ...her assistant and my assistant.
KING: Were both present through all of this?
S. OSBOURNE: Yes.
KING: Do you know if she went without any drugs on her.
O. OSBOURNE: They strip you. When you go in there, they go through every sock and shoe, everything. They will search her and give her blood work and urine samples.
KING: She's not a prisoner, is she? She can leave tomorrow, can't she?
S. OSBOURNE: She's an adult, yes, she can. She can check herself out at any time.
KING: Can you visit her?
O. OSBOURNE: I'm sure we can. But when, I don't know.
S. OSBOURNE: It's at least a week.
O. OSBOURNE: Now it's up to Kelly, if Kelly wants to get down to work in a recovery program. When I went in and out of rehab since she was born.
KING: In and out?
O. OSBOURNE: I've been in and out most of my life, but you don't have to follow my footsteps, if she really wants to get down to the program like my son, Jack, she can beat it.
KING: We will be back with our remaining moments, take a few more phone calls for the Osbournes who we wish nothing but the best. Their reality show resumes Tuesday on MTV, and Ozzie's four-wheeler accident was near fatal, but he's doing well. Did you ever think you might not -- might bite the bullet?
O. OSBOURNE: Actually, when I had my accident, my heart stopped twice.
KING: We will be back with our remaining moments with the Osbournes. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O. OSBOURNE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) come and see my studio. I haven't done anything at all for a while.
Don't touch anything. Don't [ bleep ] touch anything.
This is my store room for my equipment.
Absolutely soundproof. The brains to my computer are in here. Don't touch anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got to have the disco ball, absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this for?
O. OSBOURNE: That's for you not to [ bleep ] touch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. OSBOURNE: He's got bleeding in one lung and they might have to go in and operate. They've got a specialist on the way to see him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Kelly crying there was hearing of the accident, right.
S. OSBOURNE: Yes, I was on the phone telling her.
KING: Findlay, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: Thanks for taking my call. I would like to say, Sharon, you are a strong woman and I have prayed for you and Ozzie through your illnesses, and it broke my heart when you were sick. And I was just wondering, where do you get your strength from besides your family, I mean, it's obvious your family is so close together.
KING: Good question. You are not very strong tonight?
S. OSBOURNE: No, I am not. I don't know, honestly. I honestly don't know. I like to think it's a lesson in life and that's my journey.
O. OSBOURNE: You have had a few lessons lately.
KING: You might think school is out already.
S. OSBOURNE: I wish.
KING: Harlan, Kentucky, hello.
CALLER: I would like to ask Ozzie what his band members thinks of him being himself on "The Osbourne Show?"
O. OSBOURNE: I've not really asked them, to be honest with you. I mean, I hope they like me.
KING: Have you been tempted to go back to the drug usage?
O. OSBOURNE: All the time. I mean when you are a drug addict, you don't stop being a drug addict because you stop taking them. You are always going to be a drug addict. I have never taken one of anything.
KING: Do you wake up worrying today he will do it, again?
S. OSBOURNE: No. I don't, because it's something I can't control, and I just can't.
KING: Can't worry about something you can't control.
O. OSBOURNE: The thing is, I try to say to Sharon on numerous occasions, I am a drug addict, alcoholic, the kids have got to -- I believe it's genetic, you know.
KING: Thank you, Ozzie, our prayers are with you. Sharon and Ozzie Osbourne. No one said it was easy. Be back in a couple of minutes to tell you about the weekend. Don't go away.
KING: And we now turn over the weekend. This was quite an hour. Jenny Craig, Tim Robbins, and John Stossel will be with us tomorrow night on LARRY KING LIVE. Peter Jennings, we'll repeat that interview on Sunday and Ted Kennedy, Monday night. And now we turn the tables, as we approach the weekend, I love turning tables, they just go like this to there. Look at it. Right on the screen. We pass it on to Mr. B. himself. Aaron Brown in New York with "NEWSNIGHT." Aaron, the guiding light turns to you.
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