CNN INSIDE POLITICS
Students Strike For Peace; How Does Religion Impact Bush's War Plans?
Aired March 5, 2003 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Students strike for peace while U.S. officials prepare for war.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: If force is to be used, the Iraqi regime will be gone, and Saddam Hussein would be removed from power.
ANNOUNCER: Is there new evidence against Iraq? And will U.N. members find it convincing?
A matter of faith, how religion inspires the president's battle plan. And why some other nations find that offensive.
Playing to win in 2004. The presidential candidates' inside strategies for dealing with the wild cards of an early primary season.
Weighty concerns on Capitol Hill get the royal treatment.
SARAH FERGUSON, DUCHESS OF YORK: It's time now everybody wakes up, because, if not, this country is going to be in major, major problems.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, this is INSIDE POLITICS with Judy Woodruff.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST: Thank you for joining us
In the diplomatic conflict over attacking Iraq, all sides appear to be making their final appeals before a likely war. In this "NewsCycle," Secretary of State Colin Powell says Iraq has ordered continued production of banned missiles, even as it destroys existing ones. And he accused Saddam Hussein of deliberately trying to divide the U.N. Security Council. Powell returns to the U.N. tomorrow for meetings and for Friday's report by weapons inspectors.
Powell spoke just hours after the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Russia joined forces in Paris and vowed to block a new U.N. resolution that could clear the way for the use of force. Saddam Hussein is claiming that the U.N. order to destroy al-Samoud missiles is designed to demoralize Iraqis before a U.S.-led attack. Still, Iraq destroyed nine more missiles today.
Chief weapons inspector Hans Blix says that Baghdad has been more cooperative recently, but he acknowledged that war may be imminent. And he said he would be able to pull his team out of Iraq within 48 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTORS: When we watch the Americans and others build up, we don't know what's going to happen. And people assume that we will be using military force, and whatever will happen to the inspection operations then, I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Well, meantime, U.S. military officials are pressing ahead. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and General Tommy Franks were among those who met with President Bush this morning to talk about final battle plans.
Let's go to the White House now and to CNN's Chris Burns. Chris, this information today from Secretary Powell about what the Iraqis are and aren't doing, all designed to bolster the case when they take this to the U.N. next week?
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Judy. The White House trying to push the case of diplomacy toward this resolution. That is the public message today. Privately, of course, that meeting of the National Security Council here at the White House. President Bush meeting with the generals, including Tommy Franks who would lead a war machine against Iraq.
But the public focus is on the full-court diplomatic press in New York at the United Nations. And laying the groundwork for that was Secretary of State Colin Powell in a speech today, trying to lay out evidence that he says are good reasons to go ahead with that resolution, trying to persuade those who are sitting on the fence, trying to get nine votes on that 15-member Security Council. And it's still an uphill battle.
Secretary Powell laying out a number of bits of evidence, saying that, for instance, that Iraq is concealing equipment to produce al- Samoud 2 missiles, that disarmament, up to now is too little, too late. And that Iraq is hiding chemical and biological weapons in poor Baghdad neighborhoods. These among the points Powell making in trying to persuade at least the public opinion around the world that there is a case for going to war against Saddam Hussein.
At least putting further pressure on Saddam Hussein by going ahead with this second U.N. resolution, saying that Iraq is in violation, continues to be in violation of the weapon stripping Security Council Resolution 1441. Powell saying that piecemeal attempts at disarmament by Iraq are aimed at dividing the public opinion and dividing the international community. Here's what he said.
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COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Saddam Hussein is betting that some members of the Council will not sanction the use of force despite all the evidence of his continued refusal to disarm. Divisions among us, and there are divisions among us, if these divisions continue, will only convince Saddam Hussein that he is right. But I can assure you he is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: Secretary Powell, however, also holding out an olive branch both to the U.N. and to Saddam Hussein, suggesting that if Saddam does disarm now he could still avoid war -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Chris, is it your sense that the administration now has a clear timetable for going after this second resolution, or are they still willing to make some changes here?
BURNS: Well, Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman said today that it is not set in stone, that resolution could perhaps, suggesting anyway, that the resolution could perhaps be tinkered with. Though, obviously, the main elements are what the White House intends, is that it's saying that Saddam Hussein remains in material breach and faces serious consequences.
Now, France and other countries have suggested that there be some kind of a timetable, deadlines, specific items that Saddam Hussein should disarm himself of. Perhaps that might be included in the equation. But up until now, Ari Fleischer saying that President Bush is confident, remains confident that despite possible veto threats by France and Russia, that perhaps the resolution could still squeak through.
WOODRUFF: Chris Burns, reporting from the White House, thanks very much.
And another note from the White House. President Bush met today with an envoy from the Vatican who conveyed Pope John Paul II opposition to war. More on that and the role of religion in this conflict ahead.
Well, across the United States today, students raised their voices in dissent of war. In Boston, hundreds of young people walked out of school as part of the books, not bombs, protest. Similar marches were held on dozens of college campuses and at some high schools as well. Maria Hinojosa is at City Hall in Philadelphia, where students from 20 high schools and colleges joined in the protest. Maria, just how big an anti-war movement are we looking at there?
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's hard to say, Judy. We were at the university of Pennsylvania for the first part of the morning where they were having a day-long series of teachings. And from there what they were asking the students on the campus was at 2:40 to stand up and walk out of classes. And they are on their way here. We have heard now that they have stopped traffic, about two blocks away from here in front of a military recruiting center, on there way here where there was supposed to be a rally.
But just to give you a sense of a gathering of, yet, nothing quite large yet. They were hoping that thousands of students would come out. But right now we're just seeing several, you know, dozens of students who are coming. But they are feeding in here. But the interesting thing, Judy, is this is a national day of walkout for the students. And we were on a college campus, but, I have to say, there are a lot of high schools that are involved. And one of the people I just ran into here, her name is Roxanne Parker, you are 14 years old. Why get involved in a protest at this point in your life?
ROXANNE PARKER, STUDENT: Well, my cousin is stationed in Kuwait. He is over there fighting for something that he doesn't believe in. He has a family he should be taking care of. He shouldn't be fighting battles.
HINOJOSA: Some might say, you are 14 years old, you should be thinking about makeup, boyfriends, yet you feel you should be here.
PARKER: Yeah, to that I would say, we're the future of America. Just because we're young doesn't mean we don't have minds. We are very concerned and we're going to have an impact on the future. We should really know what's going on in our country.
HINOJOSA; Now, your entire high school did not come out. You were not supported in this by your school. You were told that you might even be suspended. But what are you hearing among young people? Is there really support for this kind of activity?
PARKER: Yes, there is. Even though our principal threatened suspension, many of my friends, all the freshmen, all the upper classmen said that, you know, they were going to walk out. They were going to come to the protest anyway, because everyone cares. This is a big issue. Just because we're young doesn't mean we are not concerned.
HINOJOSA: Okay, thank you, Roxanne Parker. So that gives you a sense, Judy. I mean, most people wouldn't think that 14-year-olds are really interested in what's happening worlds away from them. But actually I've talked with a lot of young people and I'm kind of surprised to find out how young they are going in terms of their activism -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Maria, very articulate 14-year-old. And we've seen some young people here in Washington as well. All right, Maria, thank you.
From Australia to Britain to Bangladesh, thousands of students and others around the world protested war in Iraq today.
In Australia, protesters accused Prime Minister John Howard of being a warmonger because he is one of President Bush's strongest allies against Iraq. In Pakistan, dozens of women anti-war activists took to the streets of Karachi, burning President Bush in effigy and chanting, down with the U.S.A. And a half million Egyptians took part in a state-orchestrated demonstration against war, including thousands of workers bused in to Cairo from various public companies.
Well, even as the world and the Bush administration brace for war in Iraq, long-time Korea watchers are privately concerned that the U.S. may be headed toward a military showdown with North Korea. Several administration sources tell CNN that the concerns stem from provocative steps taken by both sides in recent days, including North Korea's interception of a U.S. spy plane. And President Bush's suggestion that the U.S. might need to use force to prevent North Korea from building a nuclear arsenal. Leading Democratic senators are urging Mr. Bush to begin direct talks with North Korea.
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SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: We, quite frankly, have no policy on that. There is no policy. I would not call it benign neglect. I'd call it maligned neglect.
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WOODRUFF: Pentagon officials, meantime, confirmed today that the U.S. has begun deploying long-range air force bombers to the island of Guam to try to deter any aggression by North Korea during a war with Iraq.
We'll have more on the standoff with North Korea and the showdown with Iraq next on INSIDE POLITICS. I'll talk with Senator Minority Leader Tom Daschle about war, U.S. policy and politics here at home.
I'm Bill Schneider in Washington. Religion is a driving force behind the Bush presidency. But that drives many people overseas up a wall.
Also ahead, out wit, out play, out last? Democratic presidential hopefuls plan their strategies to be the primary season survivor.
This is INSIDE POLITICS, the place for campaign news.
WOODRUFF: Even as there are hourly developments in the standoff with Iraq, some Senate Democrats are trying to draw more attention to the increased U.S. tensions with North Korea. With me from Capitol Hill to talk about this and other issues is the Senate Democratic leader, Tom Daschle.
Senator, I want to ask you, before I ask you about Korea, about what Secretary of State Powell had to say today about Iraq. He said that Iraq has not made the decision to disarm, but they are, in fact, continuing to produce the very missiles that they said they were going to destroy.
I'm sorry. Senator, can you hear me? SENATOR TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: Well, now I can again, Judy. I keep getting -- I hear you and then I lose you. Sorry about that.
WOODRUFF: All right, my apologies.
Before I asked you about North Korea, I did want to ask you about Iraq. As I'm sure you know, Secretary of State Powell today said that the Iraqis are not only -- have not made the decision to disarm, but they are, in fact, continuing the production of the very missiles that they said they would get rid of. Has the time for inspections come to an end in Iraq?
DASCHLE: Well, I think the more we can continue to put pressure through the inspection process on Iraq, the better. I don't know that we have to rush to any final conclusion, but I do think that working through the international community and, especially, through the United Nations is still in our strong, best interest, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Well, right now, you have France, Russia and China all saying that they will not go along with a second U.S. resolution at the United Nations. If that's the case, should the U.S. take it upon itself with whatever allies are willing and take action?
DASCHLE: Well, it may come to that. But I would hope that we wouldn't just accept this failure in diplomacy. I would hope that we continue to work to see if we can bring them on board. We shouldn't accept diplomatic failure at this point for any reason, Judy. It just seems to me that it's in our interest to continue to press our allies and the world community to join with us.
To do it alone or to do it with less than the international community's involvement, makes our situation far more complicated and the perception of what we're doing far more dangerous. So I think it's critical that we continue to make the diplomatic effort and not simply capitulate and admit failure this early.
WOODRUFF: Even if delaying jeopardizes military success?
DASCHLE: Well, obviously, we don't want to jeopardize military success, but I can't imagine, why delay -- I think you could argue delay might enhance military success. Having all of our people in place, making sure we work something out with Turkey, doing what we can to ensure that we have second and third options, if Turkey doesn't work. All of that can be worked out while we continue the diplomatic effort.
WOODRUFF: Senator, to North Korea now. Today you accused the White House, among other things, of sitting back and watching, of playing down the threat from North Korea. Are you seriously suggesting that the White House is putting U.S. interests at risk here?
DASCHLE: Well, Judy, what I am suggesting is that there is a far more immediate threat from North Korea than there is from just about any other country in the world, even Iraq, as they continue to build nuclear facilities, nuclear weapons, as they continue to threaten the United states, as they did just this week.
It becomes far more important for us to engage the North Koreans in concert with our allies in that region. But it is critical that we do so. It's critical that we not ignore what's going on in North Korea. We do so at our peril.
WOODRUFF: But the administration says they are not ignoring it. They are simply trying to get other countries in the region with an enormous stake in what happens in North Korea to get involved in these talks.
DASCHLE: Well, I think we can set the example. Obviously, the sooner we get engaged directly, the more likely it is other countries will get engaged as well. It's sort of now, who goes first? I think it's time for us to step up to the plate, to take the lead, to make sure that we demonstrate our commitment to finding some diplomatic solution to this incredible crisis. And I'm quite confident that other countries will follow the United States.
WOODRUFF: And if the U.S. doesn't do that, what is wrong with just saying, let's wait for other countries in the region?
DASCHLE: Well, what's wrong is what you are seeing right now. I'm even told, and we read in the papers and hear on the news that there is now almost an acceptance that North Korea could be a nuclear power. I abhor that acceptance. That again is capitulation. That again, I think, in my view, sends the wrong messages to all those other countries who may be considering the nuclear option as well.
If it's that easy, if we just simply are willing to accept it, I think we make a huge mistake. We can't accept it. We can't reverse all these years of nuclear policy and disarmament. We have to ensure that we engage and the sooner we do it, the better.
WOODRUFF: The final question, Senator, about the potential confirmation or not of one of the president's judicial nominees, Miguel Estrada, to the federal bench. Today, the White House council, Mr. Gonzales, offered, once again, sent a letter to you and other Democrats saying you can sit down, you can ask Mr. Estrada all the questions you want to. Why not do that?
DASCHLE: Well, that is a good offer and we're willing to accept that offer. But that doesn't go to the heart of what we are talking about. What we want are the documents, the writings. What we want are the files they are unwilling to turn over. I guess we ask, Judy, what are they hiding? What is it they are afraid that we will see? There are many, many ways with which to allow us access to those documents. And until they do that, it is simply like an employee filling out an application and refusing to fill out the last three pages of a five-page form. They can't do that.
WOODRUFF: So, you are saying a question-and-answer session isn't enough?
DASCHLE: It isn't enough. We have to have the documents.
WOODRUFF: All right. The Senate minority leader Tom Daschle. Thanks very much.
DASCHLE: My pleasure.
WOODRUFF: Senator, good to see you again. We appreciate it.
The president and the pulpit. With a war looming, we asked, does Mr. Bush's faith influence has leadership? When we come back, our Bruce Morton has some answers.
WOODRUFF (voice-over): It's time to check your "IP IQ." Which president had the most children? Was it, A: John Tyler, B; Rutherford B. Hayes or C: Grover Cleveland? We'll tell you the answer later on INSIDE POLITICS.
WOODRUFF: Pope John Paul II today asked people around the world of all religions to pray for peace. During traditional Ash Wednesday services, marking the beginning of Lent, the Pope referred to what he referred to as threats of war facing the world. And he called on the faithful to fast and to pray.
A little while ago a Vatican envoy discussed the Iraq standoff with President Bush at the White House. According to a spokesman, Mr. Bush told the envoy that the removal of Saddam Hussein from power would make the world a better place.
Well, President Bush is very open about his personal religious faith, as he has been since before he won the White House. Those close to Mr. Bush say his beliefs helped to sustain him in times of crisis and play a pivotal role in his decision-making. We get more now from our Bruce Morton.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: God bless!
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As a candidate, George W. Bush, a born-again Christian, campaigned as one. Asked which philosopher he identified with he answered -
BUSH: Christ, because he changed my heart. When you accept Christ as the savior, it changes your heart. It changes your life.
MORTON: As president, Mr. Bush often uses biblical language.
BUSH: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil.
MORTON: He has a lot of company. Polls show roughly 40 percent of Americans think of themselves as evangelical or born-again Christians. Bush may be the most religious president since Jimmy carter. In 2000, Americans liked that.
KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: When we did polling on it in the 2000 election, we found many American were responding very favorably to the fact that Bush was constantly discussing his religious believes because they shared at least, in general, those same religious beliefs.
BUSH: Now, with war looming, does the President's faith influence his leadership? Commerce Secretary Don Evans is a friend of the president's.
DON EVANS, SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: He's able to make these very, very difficult decisions because of his deep faith, and that's where he will find his comfort. That's where he will find his peace.
MORTON: Religious opinion in America is not unanimous. The Catholic Church opposes the war. And American Catholics who attend church regularly are more likely to be anti-war than those who don't. Some established Protestant churches are against the war.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES: If we invade Iraq, there's a United Nations estimate that says there will be up to a half a million people killed or wounded. Do we have the right to do that to a country that has done nothing to us?
MORTON: Still, Protestants who attend church regularly are more likely to be pro-war, with their president, than those who don't.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION: The president is faced with some very serious issues. And that's why God, we must pray that God will help him and direct him as he makes these decisions. I like "Newsweek" this week, where they put God back on the cover. And I'm glad to see this country is looking to God again.
MORTON: Faith can make a leader confident, can make a leader humble.
E.J. DIONNE: President Bush at various times on foreign policy has said both things. During the 2000 campaign, his emphasis was much more on humility. He explicitly used that word. In this period, his emphasis has been much more on certainty.
MORTON: So America, a religious country, readies for war, not united, but with a president whose faith seems strong.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
WOODRUFF: Well, religion also influences how those outside the U.S., especially those in Europe, view President Bush. For more on this I'm joined by our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Judy, President Bush's public professions of faith undoubtedly help him here at home. But overseas, it's a different story.
JAMES HARDING, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, FINANCIAL TIMES: We don't like, in Europe, to see our politicians treat the podium as a pulpit. We view that with great suspicion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so he set out on a journey -
SCHNEIDER: What bothers Europeans is when religious imagery gets into President Bush's politics.
BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take awhile.
HARDING: When the president used the term crusade, it was something that chilled European sentiment, quite clearly.
SCHNEIDER: That may have been inadvertent. What really bothers Europeans is when he goes to Europe and talks like that.
BUSH: And these beliefs lead us to fight tyranny and evil as others have done before us.
SCHNEIDER: Why are Europeans so bothered by religious imagery? The United States is different. It's the most religious country in the Western world. It was settled by people seeking religious freedom. It's the only country where the dominant religion is sectarian Protestantism, salvation through personal faith and redemption. Nearly two-thirds of Americans say they pray at least once a week. That's twice as many as in Europe. What worries Europeans isn't just America. It's Bush.
DEBORAH CALDWELL, BELIEFNET: The Christianity that he believes in is absolutely, clearly what guides him towards believing that he has God on his side.
SCHNEIDER: It's Bush's habit of mixing religion and policy.
HARDING: The same thing that has been paraded as one of his great qualities, moral clarity, is something that worries Europeans who think, well, isn't the world a little bit too complicated for black-and-white solutions.
SCHNEIDER: Moral clarity to Americans comes across as moral certainty to Europeans. And that's dangerous.
HARDING: There was something alarming to many Europeans about the idea that they are preparing for war and wrapping themselves in a mantel of religiosity, and invoking God as they do so.
SCHNEIDER: He is referring to President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair, who, unusual for a British leader is a churchgoer. That, too, makes Europeans twitchy.
HARDING: About 2 1/2 weeks ago, Tony Blair was interviewed and he was asked, so do you and President Bush pray together? And it wasn't a question. It was an accusation.
SCHNEIDER: Why do Europeans distrust religion in politics? Perhaps because of their own past. Their history was poisoned by religious zealotry. And moral certainty was the driving force behind European colonialism - the white man's burden and all that. It's something Europeans want to put behind them.
WOODRUFF: What did Blair answer? Do they pray together?
SCHNEIDER: He said, no.
WOODRUFF: All right, Bill Schneider, thanks very much.
The difficult diplomatic dance over Iraq. Is the U.S. taking the right approach in dealing with its European allies?
Coming up, our guests take issue.
Plus, profanities and name calling in an Arab conference dealing with the Iraqi crisis. We'll tell you what was said.
WOODRUFF (voice-over): Time again to check your "IP IQ." Earlier we asked, which president had the most children? Was it, A: John Tyler, B: Rutherford B. Hayes or C: Grover Cleveland? The correct answer is, A. John Tyler had 15 children by two wives, both of whom were first ladies. Most of Tyler's children lived quiet lives. They are remembered mainly because their father managed to have a record number of presidential children. No other president has even come close.
WOODRUFF: The duchess and the pounds: Sarah Ferguson tackles a weighty issue on Capitol Hill -- that story later on INSIDE POLITICS.
WOODRUFF: Well, as we reported earlier, the Islamic fundamentalist group Hamas now is claiming responsibility for the first suicide bombing in Israel in two months. At least 15 Israelis were killed in today's attack on a packed bus in Haifa. At least 40 others were wounded.
CNN's Jerrold Kessel is in Haifa, where it is nearing midnight.
And, Jerrold, this was a bus of largely students.
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Indeed, Judy.
A very somber atmosphere here after what's been a very, very grim day. And you're right. They mostly were young people, or in their teens, of schoolchildren going home from school or university, college students who were heading to their lessons, the bus No. 37. You see here behind us some of these young people. Many have come to light candles just at the spot, near the spot of where the bus blew up on this main road in this very -- normally very sedate and pretty northern Israeli town.
And they've been lighting candles all in the shape of the Jewish Star of David, the Jewish Star of David, all 37. That was the number of the bus, bus No. 37, indeed, mostly young people. And the young people have come here, in a way, to pay tribute, to stand together, to sit together, sit around as they commemorate this very tragic event.
And we've had the first word of the identity of the fatalities, two of those who have been identified, indeed, a 13-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl. The families are at the morgues down in Tel Aviv waiting to try to identify those who have been counted as missing, others recovering in hospital, a very sad day at the moment here in Haifa, as the Israeli inner Cabinet meets, convenes, in Tel Aviv, under Prime Minister Sharon, to decide whether there should be any change in policy in Israel's attempt to beat the suicide bombers -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Jerrold, just quickly, any sense of why there has been a two-month hiatus in these bombings?
KESSEL: Well, the Israelis say it's for one simple reason, not for want of trying by the militant Palestinian groups. Terror organizations, say the Israelis, want to strike whenever they can. Israel has been mounting a pretty fierce offensive in many Palestinian towns in the West Bank, in Gaza. And they say it's worked.
It may seem fearsome, their tactics, but they say it works and they say they've stopped 50 such attacks in the last two months, since that last attack in Tel Aviv at the beginning of January. Palestinians say even though the Israelis do mount those attacks, actually, they are counterproductive, because all they do is create more and more animosity among Palestinians. But the Israelis say their objective is to keep the bombers (VIDEO GAP)
WOODRUFF: Still ahead: "Taking Issue" with the U.N. As the U.S. prepares for likely war with Saddam Hussein, we'll debate the politics at play in the United Nations.
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REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D), OHIO: Our poems will have a common message and, in their totality, represent an incredible international demonstration of patriotism and global consciousness.
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WOODRUFF: Poetry on the Hill: Democratic Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur hosted three poets who ready anti-war poems to members of Congress this morning.
Coming up: the debate over U.S. diplomacy in the showdown with Iraq.
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ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, there's a lot of diplomacy going on involving many different people in many different countries. And you have not heard the final word from any nation.
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WOODRUFF: White House spokesman Ari Fleischer today on the status of a key U.N. Security Council vote on a second resolution on Iraq.
Joining us now: Margaret Carlson of "TIME" magazine and Tucker Carlson of CNN's "CROSSFIRE."
Margaret, you now have France, Russia and China all saying today that they are not going to let the U.S. get away with another resolution authorizing the use of force. So should the U.S. just drop this idea of going to the U.N. and do what it will regardless?
MARGARET CARLSON, "TIME": Well, had it not been for Tony Blair needing it for his own protection, the United States may well have said that Resolution 1441 was all they needed to go ahead to enforce -- to use whatever force necessary to get the disarmament that had not come about. But Tony Blair needs it for his own political protection.
It doesn't look good for the United States to have Cameroon and Angola dragging them across the finish line. As Ari Fleischer and Secretary of State Powell said today, they were optimistic that they would get the nine or 10 votes, but they are not the right nine or 10.
WOODRUFF: Tucker, what should the U.S. do?
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, as Margaret pointed out, it might not have been a good idea to ask for a second resolution, when pretty much everyone agrees that 1441 was sufficient.
That said, the point that France, Russia and Germany and then I guess, in an unspoken way, China, today was making, pretty absurd: that we're going to preclude the use of force. Now, if there had been no threat of force, credible threat of force, Saddam wouldn't be destroying missiles today. Inspections obviously are meaningless and certainly ineffective without a credible threat of force. So, you sort of wonder how serious are our Western European allies about disarming Saddam. They don't seem that serious.
WOODRUFF: All right, we're going to completely reverse course here and talk about domestic issues, and, namely, the federal deficit -- or the federal budget. Today, you have Republicans on the House Budget Committee revising their projection for the budget for next year upwards of some $30 billion. You also have a group called the Committee for Economic Development, consisting of some big CEOs, saying they're worried about the administration's -- the Bush administration's economic plan.
Is the president going to get, Margaret, this huge tax cut that he's asking for?
M. CARLSON: Judy, and that projection went up 15 percent in five weeks time. So it's galloping along.
The premises upon which the first tax cut was proposed by Bush were not valid, according to Treasury Secretary John Snow, who said those surpluses weren't real. Now this second one in the face of war, Republicans are balking. Republicans who have every reason to go along with the White House just can't go along with this. And they are powerful Republicans, like Senator Charles Grassley, who is chair of the Senate Finance Committee.
T. CARLSON: Well, everybody agrees, even Democrats agree -- Bernie Sanders agrees that tax cuts can stimulate an economy. The question is, how dangerous are deficits? Snow said today -- Secretary Snow said today, they are not going to cause interest rates to rise and they're really no big deal. I agree that a lot of Republicans don't seem to buy that.
I'll be interested to know, when the point comes when Democrats and Republicans start talking about reining in spending, not just stopping tax cuts, which are still popular, according to the polls, but, say, curtailing the president's prescription drug plan, when is that going to start to become the conversation? And I bet it won't take long.
WOODRUFF: Including defense spending, right?
T. CARLSON: That's right.
WOODRUFF: All right, Margaret Carlson, Tucker Carlson, good to see you both.
M. CARLSON: Thanks, Judy.
T. CARLSON: Thanks.
WOODRUFF: Thank you.
Coming up next: the presidential candidates' primary road maps that will take them well beyond the snows of Iowa and New Hampshire well before the spring.
WOODRUFF: The nine Democrats now in the presidential race are more than eager to take on President Bush and his policies. But, first, they need to take on one another. So, their campaign teams are busy mapping out their early strategies to reflect a crowded and compressed contest.
Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, has the "Inside Buzz" on their game plans.
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GEORGE H.W. BUSH, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Reports of my death were greatly exaggerated.
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CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For decades now, the king-making, heartbreaking status of Iowa and New Hampshire have been political legend, if not precisely real. But a clogged field of candidates, a couple of favorite sons and a top-heavy primary calendar has key '04 Democratic strategists looking elsewhere for a make-or-break moment.
Can Arizona, full of moderate Democrats, give life to a Lieberman campaign? Will South Carolina establish Southerner John Edwards as a power player? Their campaigns hope so. The calendar makes it possible. It used to be the winners of Iowa and New Hampshire had two weeks to hog the headlines. Now, a week after New Hampshire, primaries are scheduled in South Carolina, Arizona, and Missouri. Five other states are thinking about it.
Further shaping strategy are some of the current assumptions about Iowa and New Hampshire. They are survival contests, said the Edwards camp. They are givens, said a Lieberman strategist. The givens are, Iowa goes to its near-favorite son, Missouri's Richard Gephardt. More later on this. And New Hampshire goes to its near- favorite son, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry.
Faced with the calendar and those assumptions, the Edwards camp figures he needs only to hold his own in the first two states and then do well, which is political speak for win, in South Carolina. And it is likewise in camp Lieberman, where a win is not expected to Iowa, nor, at this point, does New Hampshire look like a blue-ribbon place for Lieberman. They talk a lot there about Arizona.
In a lot of ways, said a source, the primary season begins after New Hampshire. Inside the Kerry machine, they know a win in New Hampshire might be discounted, but momentum still counts, said one source. Post-New Hampshire, you cannot win delegates from a standstill. Still, Kerry aides are preparing for the final rounds, frantically, said one aide, recruiting volunteers in the post-New Hampshire states, beginning to weigh where to play on days with multiple contests.
Richard Gephardt's campaign is the only place people do not say out loud that he has to win in Iowa or it's over. Early strategic plans, said one source, are to win as many states as possible. Still, planners have not thought much beyond South Carolina. Iowa and New Hampshire, said the source, are punch-your-ticket states. If you finish third or fourth in both, I don't see how you move on.
HOWARD DEAN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hi, Howard Dean. How are you? Very good to see you.
Boy, I like all these stickers here.
CROWLEY: Howard Dean is running his race the old-fashioned way, planting himself in Iowa and New Hampshire, looking for a dark-horse win, place or show to carry him into the close New Hampshire primaries.
CROWLEY: And, finally, a listener caution about early primary strategy: A good part of it is setting up the expectation games, laying out not where you will win, but where your opponents have to win -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: It sure is.
Now, Candy, we talked about where. What about the issues? What kind of strategies are you picking at this point up on those?
CROWLEY: Well, you hear the name Clinton a lot, which is really interesting, particularly in the Lieberman camp, where they think that, if you can take certain issues off the table -- gun control, values -- then you can move on and say, "And, yes, the president has done well on the war, but what about the economy?" and sort of move on that way.
But the fact of the matter is, they all talk about the wild card. And the wild card is the war. You don't know whether the hand you are looking at right now is going to play well in January, because you don't know what's going to happen with the war.
WOODRUFF: A lot of uncertainty.
CROWLEY: Yes, absolutely.
WOODRUFF: All right, Candy, thanks very much.
Straight ahead: He lost the tightest Senate race of the year 2000 and he may be preparing to try again -- the latest on South Dakota Republican John Thune coming up in our "Campaign News Daily."
WOODRUFF: Making the headlines in our "Campaign News Daily": In a noticeable break from the recent trend in other states, party officials in Delaware want to hold their 2004 presidential primary later, rather than sooner. Delaware is currently scheduled for the last day in January. Under the new proposal, Delaware would shift to February 3, a move designed to keep the state from being overshadowed by New Hampshire, which is now scheduled for January 27.
Two-high profile rivals to Mayor James Hahn have won seats on the Los Angeles City Council. In yesterday's elections, former Police Chief Bernard Parks won a seat from South Los Angeles. Parks ran for office after Hahn blocked his attempt to serve a second term as police chief. And Antonio Villaraigosa, the man Hahn defeated for mayor, also won a city council seat.
Former South Dakota Republican Congressman John Thune has created a new political organization allowing him to raise money and remain in the public eye. The group is called South Dakotans for Responsible Government. And Thune has already sent fund-raising letters to potential donors. Thune lost his challenge to Senator Tim Johnson by 528 votes in November. He's widely expected to challenge Senator Tom Daschle in 2004.
Some determined Americans have tried to trim fat from the federal budget. Well, now a British import is urging lawmakers to scale themselves down. During the Great American Weigh-In on Capitol Hill, the duchess of York, Sarah Ferguson, tried to get congressional figures thinking about shedding pounds and reducing their health risks. We couldn't help but notice that many of those willing to be weighed in publicly already seemed to be fighting trim.
We didn't see everybody.
INSIDE POLITICS will be right back.
WOODRUFF: A quick look at what's in the works for tomorrow's INSIDE POLITICS: I will discuss the standoff with Iraq, tensions with North Korea, and other issues with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
That's it for today's INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thanks for joining us.
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