The Web    CNN.com     
Powered by
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
SERVICES
 
 
 
SEARCH
Web CNN.com
powered by Yahoo!
TRANSCRIPTS
Return to Transcripts main page

CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE

Look at Some Top Priorities of Our 43rd President

Aired February 17, 2003 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jay Ross has mesothelioma, an especially deadly cancer that attacks the area around the lungs and is linked to asbestos. The former Navy shipyard worker lives in Mississippi, but has had to travel to Houston for treatment.

DOROTHY ROSS, WIFE OF CANCER PATIENT JAY ROSS: We had no options there. We had gone to a lung specialist and he told me that there was nothing he could do for him. All he could do was, for us to make him comfortable.

WIAN: In other words, a death sentence.

The Ross' sought a second opinion from a specialist, at Houston's M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, one of only a handful of hospitals equipped to treat mesothelioma. Dorothy and truck driver son John, Jr. have spent tens of thousands of dollars and missed months of work making the 700-mile, 11-hour trip to Houston.

JOHN ROSS, JR., SON OF CANCER PATIENT JAY ROSS: Before this happened to my daddy, was diagnosed with it, I had a few dollars set aside. Now I work from week to week to pay my bills.

DR. ROY SMYTHE, M.D. ANDERSON CANCER CENTER: Most patients that get the disease, 75 percent are blue collar people that were exposed to asbestos during the course of those sorts of jobs earlier in life. The major problem we have with these patients is that the fact there are out of pocket costs that insurance companies don't cover, which includes the travel to and from centers, staying in hotels, spouses not working.

WIAN: About 4,000 Americans get mesothelioma each year. It's linked to inhaling asbestos fibers and can take decades to show up. It's also difficult to diagnose, because symptoms mimic pneumonia and other conditions.

Last August, retired auto mechanic Eduardo Sanchez saw a doctor for a persistent cough. The first diagnosis, asthma. The second, tuberculosis. Finally, after two months, tests revealed mesothelioma had engulfed 92 percent of one lung.

Ivonne Verdecia is his daughter.

IVONNE VERDECIA, DAUGHTER OF CANCER PATIENT EDUARDO SANCHEZ: The surgeon decided not to do surgery since it would be too detrimental to him, to remove the lung. So, he didn't even advise any kind of treatment or anything.

WIAN: Verdecia began searching for a mesothelioma specialist willing to accept state health insurance, a common problem for patients seeking specialists of all kinds. It's complicated by cuts in Medicare payments to doctors, rising malpractice insurance premiums, and cost cutting by HMOs.

DR. ROBERT CAMERON, UCLA MEDICAL CENTER: They say that there's no good treatment for this disease, and they basically don't want treatment to be given. So they put patients through lengthy review procedures and try to delay treating the patient.

WIAN: Sanchez had to wait five months to begin receiving Alimta, a drug now undergoing clinical trials that's shown some promise. But even with the best treatment, most mesothelioma patients die within a year.

VERDECIA: I hope to God that it wasn't too long.

WIAN: Advocates want more federal funding of mesothelioma research and treatments, since about a third of victims had asbestos exposure in military-related jobs. As for getting patients to treatment centers, Houston's Dr. Smythe has started a foundation to help with out of pocket expenses. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JAN HOPKINS, CNN ANCHOR: It's not just patients who are frustrated with the medical system. Many doctors are also fed up. Strapped for time and struggling financially, some doctors have completely given up on dealing with HMOs and insurance companies. Instead, they're offering more personalized care for their patients. Catherine Barrett has the report from Seattle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CATHERINE BARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since stepping off the treadmill of managed medicine and cutting his daily patient load in half, Dr. Garrison Bliss now has time to look after his own health and his patients.

DR. GARRISON BLISS, SEATTLE MEDICAL ASSOCIATES: You're not always just putting out fires and dealing with catastrophes. You're also having time to do the routine work, to spend an hour during a physical exam.

BARRETT: In 1997, Seattle Medical Associates pioneered a new kind of medical practice. They call it patient

(AUDIO GAP)

boutique or retainer-based medicine. The patients pay $75 a month for primary care. It covers all appointments, physicals, basic lab work, even x-rays.

NAN ISAKSON, PATIENT, SEATTLE MEDICAL ASSOCIATES: It's worth the luxury. It's worth it to me; it's what I would want my money to go toward.

BARRETT: Other fee-based practices charge four times that much or more. At the top end, Seattle's MD squared charges $13,000 a year.

JON MOSES, CEO, MD2: Our patients pay a retainer to our physicians to keep them available to them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to provide a higher level of care, more in-depth level of care, and service, than they're able to get anywhere else.

BARRETT: Doctors finance these practices with fees alone, without dealing with HMOs or insurance companies. According to the American Medical Association, the average primary care physician handles over 5,000 patient visits a year. Retainer-based care allows doctors to cut that number by two thirds.

RUSSELL DAGGATT, PATIENT, SEATTLE MEDICAL ASSOCIATES: It's easier to get a phone call retuned or an e-mail answered, or just to drop in without an appointment and know that you'll get your needs met.

BARRETT: Florida-based MDVIP is the largest boutique provider, with 21 doctors in seven states. It hopes to recruit hundreds more.

DR. ED GOLDMAN, PRESIDENT, MDVIP: It is an essential, in terms of giving patients an additional layer of choice. And if they value it, they should choose it, much like public schools, private schools, or any of the other things that exist in the nation.

BARRETT: One downside to shrinking practices is that it leaves thousands of patients stuck seeking a new doctor. And in a system with 40 million uninsured, where medicare and Medicaid patients struggle to find doctors, the issues of equity and access worry some.

DR. CLARENCE BRADDOCK, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: If more physicians opt out of our healthcare system and go into these kinds of practices, it's going to make it even more difficult for patients like that to find a physician to take care of them.

BARRETT: Some in Congress seek to keep fee charging doctors out of Medicare all together.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: The outrage of senior citizens thinking that they have medical services, and then to be told you can't get in the door of the doctor's office unless you pay a $1500 entrance fee, I think that kind of outrage will ultimately prevail.

BARRETT: But as long as there are patients with money, and doctors seeking a cure for ailing practices, boutique medicine seems likely to grow and prosper. Catherine Barrett for CNN, Seattle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: The vast majority of Americans cannot afford boutique healthcare, however. In fact, more than 60 million Americans have no insurance coverage for prescription drugs. Bill Tucker has this part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL BRAUCHER, CANCER PATIENT: Amoxyflocizin(ph) once a day. Pregnizone(ph) twice a day. Tylenol-3 as needed for discomfort.

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Paul Braucher has a malignant tumor in his sinuses. He takes about 14 pills a day, five of them prescription. He is not covered by health insurance.

BRAUCHER: Beginning with my first visit to a doctor, I was prescribed antibiotics. Each round costs about $140, for a ten-day supply.

TUCKER: Braucher, a self-employed interior decorator and artist, was trying to dig himself out of a financial hole to afford health insurance coverage when he was diagnosed. He relies on friends and family for help.

Braucher is just one of 63 million Americans without prescription drug coverage. In Congress, there's broad agreement that something should be done, but little agreement on what should be done. This year, President Bush made a prescription drug plan a priority for senior citizens.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Medicare must be more flexible. Medicare must include prescription drugs.

TUCKER: People on Medicare are expected to spend $92 billion on prescription drugs this year. They account for more than one third of the total annual spending on prescription drugs. In order to get them coverage and reform Medicare, some say Congress needs to look no further than its own plan, the Federal Employee Health Benefits program.

JOSEPH ANTOS, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: There's a good balance, in that program, between the interests of the taxpayer, the interests of the federal government, the interests of the employee, and, of course, the interests of the health plans. We haven't seen the upheavals and problems that we've seen in the Medicare program.

SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Medicare should be a priority.

TUCKER: And while the political right and left argue about the role of government in any plan, they do share something of the same view.

RICHARD KIRSCH, CITIZEN ACTION OF NEW YORK: A good plan would provide what a good employer plan does. It covers your prescription drugs, and there's an affordable copayment.

TUCKER (on camera): The administration's plan, so far, has been short on details. Committing $400 billion to Medicare over 10 years, but not specifying how much should go for prescription drugs.

DR. JOSEPH RUDOLPH, FAMILY PROFESSIONAL CENTER: Mrs. Theo(ph), how are you doing?

TUCKER (voice-over): And while the debate continues in Capitol Hill, in Pittsburgh, there's a doctor who decided his patients couldn't wait. Dr. Joseph Rudolph set up a nationwide service to provide patients with access to drugs in Canada, where prescription drugs cost about half the price.

RUDOLPH: One patient of ours takes the medicine Casadex(ph). If he buys it locally, for a three month supply is $1400. We can get his medication for him for about $500.

TUCKER: Despite objections from US drug companies, Dr. Rudolph's program is legal. At the state level, Maine is leading the way to help ease the burden on patients' pocketbooks. Maine has a program to negotiate deep drug discounts for the uninsured. Drug companies are challenging the plan. Bill Tucker, CNN Financial News, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Coming up next on this special holiday edition of MONEYLINE, President Bush has pledged billions of dollars to help the millions around the world who are infected with AIDS. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson will join me to talk about how that money will be used.

Title 9 was designed to foster gender equality in college athletics. We'll ask Education Secretary Rod Paige if it has really leveled the playing field.

And President Bush wants additional funding to develop hydrogen powered cars. We'll have a special report on how far the industry has to go.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: President Bush announced a $15 billion plan to combat the international AIDS pandemic. That is three times the current US commitment to the global fight against AIDS.

42 million people around the world are infected with the HIV virus or have AIDS. 70 percent live in Africa. AIDS has already killed 20 million people. In four African countries, HIV infection among adults exceeds 30 percent.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: I asked the congress to commit $15 billion over the next five years, including nearly $10 billion in new money, to turn the tide against AIDS in the most afflicted nations of Africa and the Caribbean.

HOPKINS (voice-over): Activists call the President's AIDS pledge historic, a crucial turning point in the fight against AIDS. The majority of the $15 billion will go to 14 African and Caribbean countries over the next five years. About half going towards treatment, more than a third to prevention, 15 percent to care. NICHOLAS EBERSTADT, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: In effect, the United States is going to underwrite the construction of entire healthcare systems for some of these governments. Significant extension and deepening of healthcare infrastructure, because that infrastructure is largely absent in sub-saharan Africa.

HOPKINS: This means more medical centers, more healthcare professionals, more medication. Many of these countries spend just a few dozen dollars per year per capita or less on healthcare. The Bush plan aims to prevent 7 million new infections, treat 2 million HIV infected people, and care for 10 million HIV infected people and AIDS orphans.

But while the $15 billion figure is staggering over five years, the UN estimates that $10.5 billion each year is needed globally in the fight against AIDS.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: What we hope now is that other countries, other developed nations, will also step to the plate and compliment this, so that you have a truly comprehensive program that not only covers the 14 countries, albeit those are the hardest hit countries that are in the President's program, but also we need to pay attention to China, to India, to Russia and other Eastern European nations.

HOPKINS: In June 2001, the UN General Assembly unanimously endorsed the creation of the independent global fund on AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria to coordinate donations from wealthy nations. The US chairs the board of the fund, and has designated 1 billion of the $15 billion AIDS pledge to the fund. Some argue that's not enough.

DR. JEFFREY SACHS, EARTH INSTITUTE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: By not putting money into that global fund, what we're doing is saying, we'll have a US-only program. And I think that doesn't leverage our money effectively. Because if we went through the fund and said to the Europeans and the Japanese, you match that. We'll put all the money together. We'll let the countries not face us one at a time, but present to us a unified program. I think the money would go a lot farther.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: In addition to providing a plan to combat AIDS and HIV, the President offered a general promise to improve our nation's entire healthcare system. The President's budget will commit $400 billion over the next decade to reform and strengthen Medicare.

Earlier, I spoke with Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson, and began by asking him, what is being done to prepare against a bioterrorism attack?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOMMY THOMPSON, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We have set up a command center in the Department of Health and Human Services to coordinate all the activities. We have set up a program in which we're in direct communication with all the health departments in America. All the state health departments connected with CDC in Atlanta, as well as NIH up in Bethesda, and the Department of Health and Human Services in Washington.

We have developed a program in which we can expand the facilities and communications directly to those cities that may be attacked. We have 600 tons of medical supplies and equipment, Jan, strategically located in 12 sites across America. And we can have those 50 tons of those medical supplies and equipment and antibiotics delivered to any city in America within seven hours after an attack.

We're also, of course, got epidemiologists and doctors throughout America that are able to be summoned up immediately. We have the country divided into ten regions in which we have approximately 7500 medical personnel that can be called up and directed to go, within hours after an attack, to any community in America.

And we are purchasing new drugs, and we are also putting in a huge amount of money for new vaccines for the six major bioterrorist threats. And that is smallpox, and anthrax, and botulinum toxins, and the hemorragic fever virus, the plague, as well as tularemia. We're doing a great deal in America to get prepared.

HOPKINS: If, in fact, there was an attack somewhere, you said that supplies could arrive within seven hours. How soon do you think a response would come?

THOMPSON: The response is going to be immediately. As soon as an attack would be forced or foisted upon any community, we would have a response being ready to go almost instantaneously. We would be contacted, and our command headquarters, which is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, could start directing medical personnel, as well as supplies, to any community within hours thereafter.

And of course, we'd be working with the local state health departments, and the state health departments, and work with them to make sure that we could respond relatively instantaneously to any attack.

HOPKINS: Now, another thing that you look at, as the Secretary of Health and Human Services, is the whole medical system in this country. There are so many millions of people without health insurance at this point. Hasn't it become a crisis? And what really can be done?

THOMPSON: Well, it is a crisis, Jan, and what the President and the administration's trying to do is, trying to find ways in which we can innovate to get more people covered by insurance. The first way, of course, is by expanding the community health centers in America, so that we can deliver medical services to more of the uninsured, and the underinsured, and low income families. And we're putting enough money in to expand it by an additional 120 new medical centers this year, and remodel 110 other ones, so we'll have close to 3600 across America by the end of the year, serving about 14 million people. HOPKINS: And these are part of the federal budget, or state budgets? Because the state budgets are really being hit at this point.

THOMPSON: Well, they're actually the federal budget and in the community budgets, not the state budgets. And, they're working out extremely well.

We're also coming up with a new way to deliver medical assistance through the states. A new program of partnership between the federal and state governments, in which the federal government would advance more money and help the states come up with innovative ways in order to treat the uninsured.

And we're also coming up with tax credits in order to help the uninsured in a global fashion. In a hope that all of the states would have a pooling arrangement, in which they'd put all of the uninsured into one group, so they could be able to compete more effectively in the insurance market to get good, comprehensive insurance at a relatively low level.

HOPKINS: Now, another issue that is particularly of concern to the elderly is prescription care. A lot of companies have cut back on the care for prescriptions, providing prescriptions, for retirees. And Medicare doesn't provide prescription care. But the President does have a plan. Why would that plan work?

THOMPSON: Well, there's no issue that's of a higher priority on the domestic scene than revitalizing Medicare for the President. The President is absolutely passionate, as I am, about coming up with a new Medicare plan that's going to include prescription drugs for our senior citizens across America.

And just like when Medicare set up in 1965, it hasn't been changed. It hasn't been modernized since then. Just like cars that were created in 1965, there's been a lot of additions and changes and modifications and modernizing of those vehicles. We want to do now the same thing to Medicare. We want to be able to strengthen it, revitalize it and put in prescription drug coverages, so all of our seniors across America will be able to have the benefit of prescription drug coverage. So that they will be able to have the necessary pharmaceutical drugs necessary to assist them in fighting off illnesses and getting the opportunity to lead a better quality of health life. And we are close to getting that program through, introduced, and hopefully we'll be able to get bipartisan support in Congress this year, and get it passed.

HOPKINS: Thank you very much, Secretary Tommy Thompson of Health and Human Services. Thanks for joining us.

THOMPSON: Thank you, Jan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Still ahead on this special holiday edition of MONEYLINE, Title 9 has been on the books for more than 30 years. But the debate over equal funding for women's and men's college sports is still going strong. Education Secretary Rod Paige will join us to talk about men and women's sports, affirmative action, and the quality of public education in this country.

Plus, one man's trash is another company's treasure. We'll tell you how the private sector is turning community recycling programs into gold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: President Bush announced his $2.2 trillion budget earlier this month. $53 billion was devoted to education. That's the largest increase for any agency. It also fulfills one of the President's central promises, to improve this country's education system.

Recently Lou Dobbs spoke with the man charged with that mission, Rod Paige, the Secretary of the Department of Education. Lou began by asking him whether the significant increase in the budget would have immediate results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROD PAIGE, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SECRETARY: To reinforce the President's commitment to the education and the domestic agenda, the President rolled out the education plan for Congress his second day in office, and I think this is an example of him putting his muscle behind it.

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, certainly in dollar terms, no child left behind, that program. How quickly, how soon should we expect to see any real results in terms of the educational improvement, test scores, improvements for the quality of teaching in this country?

PAIGE: Well, you know, every day we don't see results we lose children. We want to see results as fast as we can. And we expect to see right away, in our next testing cycle, improvement. Improvement will be gradual, but we won't wait for some kind of start date for everything to work well. We're working towards improvement day by day.

DOBBS: Let's turn to a couple of other issues facing your department. First, if I may turn to the Michigan -- University of Michigan case on affirmative action.

PAIGE: Yes.

DOBBS: You support the President without reservation on that case. Why, in your judgment, should the University of Michigan approach be thrown out?

PAIGE: Well, first of all, let's be real clear on the President's comment on that. The President announced the strong support of diversity as a goal. And he also mentioned that some people have more difficulty achieving opportunities than others. And he differs, however, on a method of achieving this diversity. At first we should look to non race-based decision making in order to achieve it. And there is evidence that it can be achieved that way. The evidence is in Texas, or the 10 percent plan, and similar plans in California and in Florida.

DOBBS: Not to digress, but the 10 percent -- that is, for all students who achieve a certain grade, the top 10 percent of students that achieve that position in the state of Texas, secondary students, guaranteed a position in the universities. Is that a correct summation?

PAIGE: That's correct. I think there's some modification now. Those that take college bound courses. That's right.

DOBBS: It's a remarkable plan. Why has that plan not been applied in just that form nationwide?

PAIGE: I think it's new. But as we go forward, I think people will begin to see that as a way to go. And if you can achieve this goal without using race-based decision making, we should first attempt to do that. And there's solid evidence that this is a wonderful way to go about it.

DOBBS: Secretary Paige, amongst the other issues you get to face, it's good thing you run education, because you have a sufficiently complex menu of issues before you, not the least of which is Title 9. A great debate now raging around Title 9, and its interpretation. What is your best thinking right now on the way Title 9 stands? Will it be changed? Changed in interpretation? What should we expect?

PAIGE: Well, first of all, let's be clear. The President and I strongly support Title 9. It has provided opportunities for thousands of young women who otherwise might have been denied those opportunities.

In some quarters, however, there are some complaints that some unintended consequences of the enforcement mechanisms for Title 9 might retard opportunities for young men and for boys. Of course, we want opportunities for all. So we have asked the commission to take a look at it and see if they can make some suggestions to us, so that we can have broad opportunities for all and continue the progress for young women.

DOBBS: Secretary Paige, one final question. Our producers, in talking to your staff, rang up the Department of Education, and one of the the things that happened was, the phone system said, one for English, two for Spanish. Is it the Department of Education's judgment we should be bilingual?

PAIGE: Well, the Department of Education, especially through our no child left behind act, has as a goal making sure people learn English as soon as possible. So that's our real goal. I'm not sure about the mechanism you're talking about right now. I'll have to go back and take a look at that one. DOBBS: Well, our always-enterprising researchers and producers have found another element in Secretary Paige. We thank you very much for being here to share your opinions. We hope you come back soon. You have a sufficient order of challenges before you, as does the entire educational system in this country. We thank you for being here.

PAIGE: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

DOBBS: Secretary Rod Paige.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: How to pay for education is not only a federal challenge for the nation, it is also a challenge for all 50 states. Many states are facing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. In fact, only three states are in the black. Tim O'Brien has the report from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal aid to the states was not part of the President's State of the Union address, although they have been clamoring for help from Washington.

Some of the most influential lawmakers, like the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, are not sympathetic.

SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: A lot of those states are in trouble because of their own profligate spending, or the cutting of their taxes. I don't have any control of that, and I don't feel the responsibility to make up for state decisions that states have made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: NASA's budget has been slashed by 40 percent over the last decade to $15 billion. Some critics have questioned whether a shortage of funds may have contributed to the Columbia disaster. Others wonder if the problem is how NASA spends its money.

Jonathan Karl has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The giant bugs at the Chicago Field Museum are brought to you in part by NASA. And why did the world's premiere space agency dump a million dollars into an exhibit on underground insects? Because Congress, which has increasingly used the agency's budget as a piggy bank for pet projects, demanded it.

BOB WALKER, FORMER CHAIRMAN, HOUSE SCIENCE COMMITTEE: Several generations of science committee chairmen, including this one, have attempted to wring pork out of science programs, whether it's at NASA or other places, because we think that that does not allow the agencies at times to elect the very best things to do.

KARL (on camera): But since 1998, $1.7 billion of NASA's budget has been spent on projects forced on the agency by Congress. These are projects NASA never requested, and that were slipped in without any hearings. Last year, there were a record 132 such projects, costing $536 million.

(voice-over): The more than $3 million spent on the Challenger learning center in the tiny remote town of Kenai, Alaska is typical. The center is called the Ted and Catherine Stevens Center for Space Technology. It's named for the chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, who says it is an important educational program similar to others in 42 other states.

TOM SCHATZ, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE: When Congress spends money on pork barrel projects, it detracts from NASA's overall mission. It forces the agency to look at projects that were not on its priority list.

KARL: In the wake of the Columbia catastrophe, Congress is re- evaluating NASA's mission. Some critics say the shuttle program itself amounts to pork barrel spending, and should be scrapped.

GREGG EASTERBROOK, SR. EDITOR, "NEW REPUBLIC": I think at this point, the space shuttle support is mainly money. It's a spending program that involves billions of dollars. The congressional delegations from states like Texas, Florida, Alabama, California, where most of the money goes, are very jealous and guarding it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a go for space LEM activation.

KARL: The program's defenders acknowledge that local politics have been a driving force behind NASA's support since the very beginning.

WALKER: Any of these places that has space centers in them, it's a huge economic driver for them. So, they're going to pay attention. It's the reason why Lyndon Johnson, when he was vice president, made certain that the space center got built in Texas.

KARL: And the space shuttle's defenders are some of the most powerful figures on Capitol Hill.

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: No, it's certainly not pork. Great nations have always pushed the frontier, and when you push the frontier, the gains that that nation gets is overwhelming. And the same applies here. Our space program has benefited every American in meaningful ways.

KARL: Congress will certainly continue to fund NASA. The question is whether lawmakers will steer that money toward space exploration or continue to force spending on things like oversized bugs in Chicago. Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Scholarship funds have been established for the 12 children of the shuttle astronauts who died in the Columbia tragedy. But many of the astronauts' families still face an uncertain future.

Tim O'Brien has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Even if the tragedy could be traced to gross negligence on the part of NASA, the astronauts' families would not be entitled to recover from the government much more than the equivalent of workman's compensation. NASA won't say how much, but it's about 55 percent of what the astronauts' pensions would have been based on salary and years of service.

NASA is protected by an ancient, but still vibrant doctrine called sovereign immunity.

EUGENE FIDELL, LEGAL EXPERT: The federal government is basically substituted for the British monarch, and under common law the British monarch could not be sued in his own court.

O'BRIEN: To save money, NASA had farmed out more than 90 percent of the shuttle work to the private sector, largely to Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Their contracts may include waivers of liability.

But even if they don't, under a 1988 Supreme Court decision, those companies would also be immune from liability if they could show they followed reasonable directions from the government and warned officials about any potential problems they had identified.

The families of the Challenger space shuttle astronauts could not sue the government but together did recover almost $10 million from Morton Thiokol, the maker of the booster rockets that allegedly contained defective O-rings.

RONALD KRIST, ATTORNEY: In the past, it's always been the government contractors who place profits ahead of safety and, as a result, cost these Americans their lives and our country the lives of their heroes that had to pay.

O'BRIEN: Attorney Ronald Krist not only represented three of the families in the Challenger disaster, but also the wife of astronaut Gus Grissom, who, along with his crew, was killed when the Apollo I spacecraft burst in flames during a launch pad in 1967.

BETTY GRISSOM, WIDOW OF GUS GRISSOM: You know, Gus did give his life for this space program.

O'BRIEN: Betty Grissom did receive a settlement in 1971 from North American Rockwell which has since run out. She is living today on her late husband's pension and Social Security, about $2,000 a month.

(on camera): It would, however, not be unprecedented for the government, as a gesture of appreciation and goodwill, to offer additional compensation to the families of lost American heroes.

Tim O'Brien, CNN Financial News, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Coming up next on this special holiday edition of MONEYLINE: President Bush wants to spend more than $1 billion to look into hydrogen fuel cells to reduce the dependence on foreign oil and improve our air quality. We'll have a special report on the car of the future.

And we'll tell you about a popular wine that has an incredibly appealing price tag: $2 -- that story and more next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: Coming up on MONEYLINE: Where most people see only trash, one company sees cash and big profits in community recycling programs. We'll have that story next.

And forget pricey vintages. We'll tell you about a $2 wine that's flying off the shelves -- that story and more coming up after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: President Bush proposed spending $1.2 billion over the next five years to develop hydrogen cars as a way to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil.

Tonight, we have two reports on hydrogen-powered fuel cells and their potential impact on the economy. We'll look at the technology needed to produce, store and distribute hydrogen, so it can be used in fuel cell vehicles.

But first, a look at who makes them. Virtually all of the automakers are developing cars fueled by fuel cells. But will the consumers buy them?

Casey Wian reports from California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some day, you'll start your car and it will sound like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the GM Hy-wire vehicle. It combines a hydrogen fuel cell, along with drive-by-wire technology.

WIAN: At $5 million, it's General Motor's most expensive concept car ever. The key technology: a fuel cell power system that eliminates the need for an engine compartment. Everything that makes the car go fits inside a 11-inch-thick chassis. Fuel cells mix hydrogen with oxygen to create electricity. A hydrogen tank replaces the gasoline tank. And stacks of fuel cells become the engine. Instead of polluting exhaust, tailpipes emit water vapor.

BETH LOWERY, V.P., ENVIRONMENT & ENERGY, GM: What's really exciting, I think, about fuel cell vehicles is, it gives us an opportunity to reinvent the automobile. So, we're doing what's right for the environment. We also have a lot of freedom with respect to design and style.

WIAN: GM, like every other major automaker, is spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing fuel-cell-powered cars, despite the fact zero-emission vehicles have so far generated little consumer interest.

ROBERT BIENENFELD, AMERICAN HONDA: This is an investment in the future. And we're paying tuition right now. You wouldn't look at your first paycheck and then look at all the money you spent going to college and see if you got a good return.

WIAN: President Bush wants to double federal funding for fuel cell research.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With a new national commitment, our scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles to taking these cars from laboratory to showroom, so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free.

WIAN: In Sacramento, California, eight rival automakers are working together to standardize and promote fuel cell technology.

JOE IRVIN, CALIFORNIA FUEL CELL PARTNERSHIP: We think we might start to see cars in California commercially available by the end of this decade. But if you look 10 to 15, 20 years down the road, that begins to grow and expand across the country and around the world.

WIAN: Already, the city of Los Angeles and two California universities are using a handful of fuel cell cars and fleet sales expected this year.

Still, major hurdles remain.

(on camera): One of the biggest obstacles manufacturers are trying to overcome is cost. A fuel cell vehicle like this one is now 10 times more expensive than a gasoline-powered car.

(voice-over): Other barriers include the need for a network of hydrogen fueling stations. Consumers will also need assurances that hydrogen is safe and efficient. These potential customers seem convinced. The auto industry is betting billions of dollars they'll still be interested when they're old enough to write a check.

Casey Wian, CNN, Sacramento, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN (voice-over): The president's announcement came as a pleasant surprise to the thousands of engineers who are working to bring hydrogen fuel-cell-powered cars to market, their goal: to develop a clean, affordable automobile power source that can make the internal combustion engine obsolete, reduce the demand for imported oil, and cut air pollution.

While automakers have shown fuel cell cars work, they're far from showroom ready.

ROBERT BIENENFELD, AMERICAN HONDA: We have to get the technology to be reliable, durable, and a good value to the customer. It's not just the technology on the car that's difficult. It's also the infrastructure. There are no places where you can just drive up and fill your car with hydrogen.

WIAN: Adding hydrogen tanks and pumps to the nation's 180,000 gas stations would be enormously expensive, but the industry is developing alternatives, such as home refueling stations to convert household natural gas to hydrogen.

STEVE MATHISON, AMERICAN HONDA: It's a flammable gas that needs to be treated with respect. But when handled properly, it can dealt with very safely.

WIAN: For now, filling up doesn't seem like something you would want to try at home.

MATHISON: The first step in refueling is to connect the grounding connector. This just makes sure that the vehicle is grounded, so that we minimize the chance of any sparks and we just connect this nozzle. And this lever locks the nozzle in place. That's about it. Now we just hit the refueling button.

WIAN: While fuel cell cars themselves don't pollute, that's not true with most sources of hydrogen, such as coal, natural gas or other fossil fuels. Until hydrogen is produced from solar, geothermal, or other clean sources, fuel cells won't be truly pollution free.

DANIEL LASHOF, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: I think hydrogen fuel cell cars are a very promising technology for the long term. The problem is, we have an oil security problem today. We have a global warming pollution problem today. And the fuel cell initiative that the president has announced may bear fruit in the Jenna Bush administration.

WIAN: Automakers and energy companies are working together to speed up fuel cell development. It's a level of cooperation rarely seen among fierce rivals.

JOE IRVIN, CALIFORNIA FUEL CELL PARTNERSHIP: Working together early on like this avoids such disagreements like VHS or Beta, the old arguments about, which technology are you using and which one will I use? WIAN: Investing billions of dollars in fuel cell technology is a risk automakers say they can't afford not to take.

(on camera): One reason: Profit margins for gasoline-powered cars have been squeezed so thin that the potential for developing a clean, cheap source of power offers huge rewards down the road.

Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Turning now to another environmental concern, trash, recycling has become more and more a part of American life, but many cities are cutting back because it's too expensive. Plus, critics say it really doesn't work. However, there is one company that is trying to change all that.

Bill Tucker reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world of recycling comes down to these guys, the commercial recyclers, and these guys, the residential recyclers. Residential recycling is in trouble. With all but three states in a financial crisis, recycling costs way too much, as New York City residents recently learned.

JOHN DOHERTY, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY DEP. OF SANITATION: Although people believe and want to do the recycling. They're really interested in it. They think it's something they should do and it's good. And, fine, it is good. But one has to look at the cost. And you've got to balance your budget at the end of the day and find out where your money's going to come from to pay for these programs.

TUCKER: That's where the commercial recyclers come into the picture. Recently, this one, Hugo Neu, made headlines, offering to play New York City for its plastic recyclables. No one has ever offered to do that. In fact, the next closest bid called for the city to pay to have them hauled away.

How can a private, family-owned company do that? Because they're commercial recyclers. It's a business. They're market-driven. They make money buying, recycling, and reselling scrap.

(on camera): The question here is not whether they can make money recycling. Hugo Neu has been recycling metals for nearly 40 years. The question is whether they can make money recycling plastic.

STEVEN SHINN, HUGO NEU SCHNITZER EAST: Well, there is some risk. It's a risk because it's not something that we currently do. There are markets for plastic. They exist in this country. They exist overseas. We have an infrastructure that we can use. That helps to mitigate that risk. But, yes, you're absolutely right. There is a risk.

TUCKER (voice-over): Few recyclers currently handle plastic. That's because the way plastic is made makes it difficult and very labor-intensive to recycle.

According to the Institute of Scrap Recycling, Hugo Neu represents what may be the beginning of a trend, with commercial recyclers looking to residential recycling waste as a potential source of profit.

Bill Tucker, CNN Financial News, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: Coming up next on MONEYLINE, called two-buck Chuck wine and stores can barely keep it on the shelves. We'll tell you why critics and connoisseurs agree, this vintage is a steal.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOPKINS: Finally tonight: a story that will not blow the budget.

The California wine that has everyone talking these days is not a rare and pricey Napa Valley vintage, but a $2 table wine sold only at Trader Joe's. The store unloaded more than a million cases of it over the holiday season alone.

Lisa Leiter has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA LEITER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A bottle of wine for $1.99? No, it's not Boone's Farm or Mad Dog 20/20. It's Charles Shaw, known as Two Buck Chuck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The win is selling quicker than we can get it in the door.

LEITER: On a recent night at Trader Joe's, where it's sold exclusively, a fully stocked shelf emptied in minutes. This wine has attracted some just looking for cheap booze, but also connoisseurs who would normally turn up their nose at a wine under $20.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I figure, if we can get a couple glasses down, it's worth the price.

LEITER: The $2 price tag, $3 here in Chicago because of shipping costs, is the result of a glut of grapes in California. But all the buzz has generated some urban myths: that bankrupt United Air Lines had to sell off its wine supply, and that the wine's namesake, Charles Shaw, is unloading it to help him in a divorce settlement.

The real Charles Shaw still enjoys wine, but he not been in the business for more than a decade. He sold his label to Bronco Wine Company, maker of the popular Forest Glen and Napa Ridge brands. He was shocked when a friend told him about his newfound cult status.

CHARLES SHAW, FORMER WINE VINTNER: In a way, it's kind of bittersweet, because I loved being a vintner so much and I loved being a wine maker.

LEITER (on camera): So, is this wine any good? We put it to a taste test with two of Chicago's top sommeliers, both pleasantly surprised.

BRIAN DUNCAN, BIN 36: It's a very complete wine. Now I understand why people are buzzing about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's far inferior wines than these at greater prices.

LEITER (voice-over): And, as one person put it, you really can't go wrong. Two Buck Chuck is the same price as bottled water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Much more pleasant than a bottle of water, though.

LEITER: Lisa Leiter, CNN Financial News, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOPKINS: That's MONEYLINE for this President's Day. Thanks for joining us.

I'm Jan Hopkins, in for Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York and have a great holiday.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




International Edition
CNN TV CNN International Headline News Transcripts Advertise With Us About Us
SEARCH
   The Web    CNN.com     
Powered by
© 2005 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us.
external link
All external sites will open in a new browser.
CNN.com does not endorse external sites.
 Premium content icon Denotes premium content.
Add RSS headlines.