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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
Abortion Hot Topic on Anniversary of Roe v. Wade; Virginia Schools to Survey Kids About Sex
Aired January 22, 2003 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST (voice-over): Today on TALKBACK LIVE, on the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, America remains divided on abortion. Where do most Americans stand and is the pendulum swinging? We'll find out.
Also, teen sex surveys. Should schools be asking your kids about their sex lives? Find out what some schools want to know, then tell me if you would let your child take one.
And, does Shaquille O'Neal need sensitivity training? Some Asian-Americans are crying "ow!" over his controversial comments about fellow NBA star Yao Ming. But is anyone listening?
The talk starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
It has been 30 years since the Supreme Court's controversial Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion in this country. And on this anniversary, the country remains as divided as ever, with abortion activists and protesters massing in the nation's capitol.
And there's a sense right now the possibility of overturning the court's decision is very real.
Colorado's Democratic Congresswoman issued a warning to those favoring a woman's right to choose.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: While the majority of American women are strongly pro-choice, they also don't believe that their right to choose will be taken away.
Well, guess what? They better start worrying, and they better start worrying today, because now we have an anti-choice leader in the House. We have an anti-choice leader in the Senate. And we have an anti-choice president in the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE) NEVILLE: And the president addressed a large anti-abortion gathering like this one today in Washington, D.C.
Now, joining me right now from the White House is CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash.
Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Arthel.
That's right. The president was in St. Louis today giving a speech there. So he called in to that rally that you just talked about. It's the third time he's called, and he's called in every year since he's been president.
And when he talked -- spoke to the crowd there, he didn't explicitly say he that wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, but he certainly didn't rule it out either. Let's see what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): For 30 years the fight for life has been sustained by constant prayer and abiding hope, that one day every child will be born into a family that loves that child and a nation that protects that child. And when that day arrives, you will have the gratitude of millions. Especially those who know the gift of life, because you cared, and you kept the faith.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, Arthel, let's look at some of the president's positions on some abortion-related issues.
First of all, he favors legislation outlawing late-term abortion procedures. And as a matter of fact, he also said today that he hopes that the Senate takes up that issue very soon, even this year, and hopes that he would be able to sign it.
He also said that he has supported a law allowing those who attack pregnant women to be charged with two counts of assault.
He has cut off funding to international family planning groups that offer abortions and abortion counseling.
And he's extended a low income health insurance program to cover fetuses and embryos, a legal status that some say could be used to challenge abortion rights.
Now while all these positions that the president has taken seem to be certainly in line with anti-abortion activists, they haven't been all that pleased with him because they feel like the president needs to take a more active role in this, that he needs to raise this as the priority in his administration and talk more about the abortion issue and do more about it. Now, on the other side, you have activists who say that the president is very dangerous, as you just heard from the Congresswoman, very dangerous to abortion rights supporters, and they believe that, especially with his judicial nominees, that he is trying to stack the courts in a way that would make it so that abortion rights are overturned at some point.
NEVILLE: So Dana, do you think when it comes time for a new appointment, perhaps if Chief Justice William Rehnquist resigns or retires, I should say, rumblings of that, perhaps that might happen at the end of this year.
If, in fact, that happens do you think President Bush will use the anti-abortion stance as a litmus test, if you will, to decide on who he might appoint?
BASH: Well, here at the White House they are clear in saying that they don't see any kind of nomination for the court, or any court, as a litmus test. They don't see abortion as a litmus test for any of his judicial nominations.
But when you ask some conservatives, they say that they certainly hope whoever he nominates will be somebody who staunchly is anti- abortion. And, of course, when you ask the other side, they say they are very skeptical that the president will nominate anybody who will be at all in favor of abortion rights.
NEVILLE: OK, Dana Bash, thanks so much for joining us with that report.
And here to talk about this now, Kelly Ann Conway, president and CEO of The Polling Company, and Garrett Schweitzer, White House correspondent and news director for Talk Radio News Service.
And I want to welcome both of you to the show.
GARRETT SCHWEITZER, NEWS DIRECTOR, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Thanks so much.
NEVILLE: All right, Garrett. I want to start with you first. I mean, you just heard the president's record on abortion.
Now, much of this has been put forward underneath the radar, if you will. And so I ask you if you think that was deliberate, to, perhaps, make sure that he doesn't, let's say, make some folks angry.
And then yet at the same time, there's the position that perhaps this just means that, listen, there is Iraq, there's terrorism, there are other things that are more important or more above the radar, if you will.
SCHWEITZER: Well, I think it's important to remember that the president had some time in office before we had Iraq and terrorism, when he wasn't approaching these issues either.
I think the president recognizes that a majority of Americans are pro-choice and he has decided to do this in a sort of behind-the- scenes kind of way.
I mean, if you look -- for example, today, this is the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade. You have one of the biggest pro-life marches in recent memory going on in Washington.
And where is the president? He's in Missouri making a speech on the economy. Because his advisers know the last thing they want to do is alienate a lot of moderate voters who helped get President Bush elected.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, THE POLLING COMPANY: Wait a second. In fairness to...
NEVILLE: Just a minute, Kellyanne. Let me do a follow-up here. Because at the same time, though, those two are on the same side, of defense of the president in this particular issue. They want to hear from him and so do other folks. So what does he do?
SCHWEITZER: Well, I think it's a difficult question for the president now. Because again, I think he's facing a public opinion which says unanimously, in a set of Supreme Court decisions that also say that Roe v. Wade is constitutional and should be upheld.
I think the president is trying to negotiate two factors. One, an extremer, more conservative factor of his party and as well a group of moderate voters to whom abortion and pro-choice issues are very, very important. And he's going to have a lot of trouble as time goes on mitigating those two factors.
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Kellyanne.
CONWAY: This would all make for a very riveting fiction book, but it has very little relevance in fact.
In fairness, the president of the United States at 12 p.m. Eastern standard time today called and gave a very strong and decisive message from his St. Louis location to the pro-life marchers here in Washington, D.C. That was part of his official schedule, and anybody was welcome to see that.
This president, if he's nothing else, he has been unequivocally pro-life from the beginning. So I think his critics cannot have it both say ways, cannot say, gee, he's trying to sneak things under the radar. When in the world can a president do that?
And at the same time say he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.
Let's be very clear about what public opinion is. The majority of Americans, I can tell you as a pollster, do not consider themselves to be, quote, "pro-choice." How do we know this?
We know this from lots of polling, including CNN's own polling...
NEVILLE: Then there -- let me go ahead and --
CONWAY: Let's look at CNN's polling. NEVILLE: I will do that, Kellyanne, right now as a matter of fact.
The CNN/TIME polled. The question is: "Do you approve or disapprove of the Supreme Court ruling allowing abortion in the first three months of pregnancy? Fifty-five percent favor, 40 percent oppose.
Another question, "Regardless of the law, do you believe having an abortion is wrong?" Fifty-nine percent said yes, and 34 percent said no.
SCHWEITZER: I think it's important to be very clear about how presidents operate.
In three years the president has had an opportunity three times to attend this rally and speak face to face with his supporters. He's never done so. Anybody who follows the White House knows that sends a very clear message about what president's prerogatives are.
Fifty-five percent of people. That's a majority. That's voters the president needs. And he knows that. This is fact, not fiction.
CONWAY: Arthel, I'll select some of my data points from the CNN poll as well, and 72 percent require the husband of a married woman be notified if she decides to have an abortion; 70 percent agree with the president's position, agree with Dick Gephardt's position, agreed with David Bonior's position, that late-term abortions should be outlawed. That's 70 percent.
NEVILLE: How do you feel about late-term abortions, Kellyanne?
CONWAY: Well, I'm not the president. I'm not a legislator. But I will tell you something, where religion and reality don't grip many Americans, science and medicine do.
And many people who call themselves pro-choicers were very, very discomforted to know that that included a procedure where you inject the skull and suck the brains out to collapse the skull and deliver a baby. The American Medical Association has said this procedure is never medically necessary.
So if 70 percent of the country is against that form of abortion, can't we at least admit that America seems a little less clear than these ridiculous labels, pro-life and pro-choice. It's such a complicated issue with so many gradations.
Everybody in your audience has seen sonograms.
NEVILLE: I actually have to go to a break, but I want to ask both of you when I come back, based on what Kellyanne just said regarding late-term abortions, and I ask you, when it comes -- when the mother's life is at risk, I want to know your stance on that.
SCHWEITZER: Absolutely.
NEVILLE: That issue.
And later in the hour, we're going to find out why educators in Virginia want to know all about their students' sex lives. Is it their business to know?
That brings me to our question of the day: "Should schools ask kids about sex?" Go ahead and give me a call, 1-800-310-4CNN, or of course you can e-mail me at TalkBack@CNN.com.
And we're back after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And today on TALKBACK LIVE, find out why Chinese- Americans aren't laughing about the way Shaquille O'Neal mocked rival Yao Ming. Just a joke, or a degrading stereotype? Talk continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody. We are talking about the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade and the future of abortion in this country.
And before we went to a break, we're looking at a live shot here, Andrews Air Force Base. The president is making his way back from St. Louis.
In the meantime, in the nation's capital, the protesters continue to pound the pavements. Anti-abortionists there, and pro-choice abortion -- pro-choice protesters are also out in full force across the nation today.
And you know, Kellyanne Conway, Garrett, this is such a major issue. And I asked you before the break, and I'll start with you, Kellyanne, on this one, that if in fact -- regarding late-term abortions, if in fact, the mother's life is at risk, how do you feel about it then?
CONWAY: Well, the pro-life community would support...
NEVILLE: Kelly, can you answer the question? Do you mind? Could you, please?
CONWAY: No, I don't mind. I mind your hostility, but I don't mind.
NEVILLE: Hang on one second, Kellyanne. The reason why I ask you is because I do not want you put you on the spot. Excuse me. It's a very personal issue, and if you do feel uncomfortable answering directly, I will not...
CONWAY: I don't feel uncomfortable.
NEVILLE: That's all I wanted to know. CONWAY: I didn't think my opinion mattered as much as the president's or lots of people in America, but here goes my opinion.
Where a woman's life is in jeopardy, I support protecting her life, and in saving her life if the result is the termination, the natural termination of her unborn child's life, that is an unattended consequence of saving her life.
So I don't think any reasonable person, myself included, would disfavor that.
Arthel, what has happened, though, is that anecdotes like that, which, thank God, are very rare as rare as the women who be raped and incested, resulting in a pregnancy and choose to abort, these instances are so rare. But unfortunately, it so poisons the debate, because those shock the conscience anecdotes make everyone in this country believe that this is why abortion is legal.
And let me just add this. I do resent one thing. In the reporting, why is it anti-abortion protesters and pro-choice protesters? Are they anti-life protesters? Or can't we at least have the anti-abortion crowd once in awhile be referred to as pro-lifers?
NEVILLE: OK.
SCHWEITZER: Well, listen, you know, on this issue, I think there's a couple of facts that need straightened out.
One, in terms of things that happen very rarely, late-term abortion actually happen very rarely. And instead, this has been injected by the pro-life community with its term partial-birth abortion, which is not a medical term, has not been endorsed by any doctors. And instead has been used as a scare tactic to make people conjure up the worst possible image of an abortion.
And this is something that rarely happens. Now most pro-life -- pro-choice groups, excuse me, say there's room for negotiation here. They say that in the end of the second and third trimesters, as well, if not only the life, but if the health of a mother is at risk here, they will accept a ban on this, as long as accepting those two circumstances.
What they don't want to have happen, is to put this decision- making process in the hands of either president or Congress and take it out of the hands of the medical profession. I think that's a terrible idea.
NEVILLE: I want to bring up some statistics right now: 1992, 2,400 physicians provided abortions, nationally. Now, today, 1,800 physicians provide abortions. Kellyanne, why do you think that is?
CONWAY: Well, some of the testimony from the doctors, they've concluded that it's not worth them doing it, either for medical malpractice and insurance reasons, liability reasons.
But it also, I think, these doctors are part of our American culture, Arthel, and they, like us, probably more than us, more than lay people like me, have seen these medical and scientific advances.
These doctors have seen what we all now have seen. "TIME" magazine, CNN's, you know, partner, co-owner, running pictures of 52- day-old fetuses and the developments, the signs of life are confounding to people. These are not things that those doctors in 1992 or the Supreme Court in 1973 perhaps knew, that you can recognize signs of life that early on.
General Electric...
SCHWEITZER: The Supreme Court...
NEVILLE: ... one of the most companies in the country running an ad on network TV and on CNN, I've seen it, showing sonograms. I think these doctors may be troubled by, you know, their hands-on knowledge.
SCHWEITZER: I think the Supreme Court could recognize that in 1992. They could recognize it again in 2000, when they ruled on abortion-related issues.
I think the number one reason that you see less abortions -- doctors practicing in the United States is because family planning has become more accessible to your average American. People are able to take other steps to avoid an abortion.
Look, let's not confuse two things here. People who are pro- choice are not pro-abortion. People who are pro-choice want to provide other options for families, other options for mothers to be able to take other steps to raise a family. When that is not possible, they want to leave that decision between a woman and God and not in the hands of the government.
NEVILLE: I do have to jump in here because unfortunately, I'm out of time. Of course, this debate could go on and on. I do appreciate both of you.
CONWAY: Thank you.
NEVILLE: Kellyanne, I want to reiterate, that certainly no hostility was directed towards you. I was actually trying to let you off the hook, actually, because I realize this is a very personal issue.
CONWAY: That's much appreciated.
NEVILLE: And I did not want to pin you against the wall, OK?
CONWAY: But remember, pro-life.
NEVILLE: All right. Kellyanne Conway, Garrett Schweitzer, thank you both for joining us here today on CNN.
OK. Coming up next, should schools be asking your children about sex? We're going to tell what you they want to know, and you can tell us if you think schools are out of line or have a good reason for requesting details. Don't go anywhere. The talk continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.
School officials may be asking some pretty private questions of your kids. Questions about drug use, suicide, weight loss and sex.
Now, apparently that last one is what has some people worried. Fairfax County schools in Virginia will vote Monday on whether to give the sex survey to 10th and 12th grade students.
We're going to get to the question in just a minute, but go ahead and introduce right now Dr. Judy Kuriansky, a clinical psychologist and author of "The Complete Idiot's Guide to a Healthy Relationship;" and Libby Gray with Project Reality. She is also the former director of a social service agency that counseled teens.
Want to welcome both of you to the show. And Dr. Judy, I'm start with you. Should schools be asking kids about sex?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you just mentioned this survey, Arthel, was going to ask about suicide, and it's going to ask about alcohol and drug use. And sex fits into the entire lifestyle of these potentially dangerous situations that kids get into.
It's the same psychological argument that can happen if you ask a kid about whether or not they've ever thought about suicide. People get frightened that you're going to plant it in their mind. If you ask them about alcohol abuse, does that make them think, oh, alcohol use, maybe I should try that!
The statistics, in fact, show that asking kids about these questions does not make them go out and do it. In fact, you have two potential positive outcomes from that.
One is, you can set up programs to stop kids who haven't had sex yet, and you can help kids who may already be having sex to make new decisions about it.
NEVILLE: Libby, how do you feel about this? Do you agree or disagree?
LIBBY GRAY, PROJECT REALITY: Well, I think that it's important that we find programs that address problems that we already know about.
The survey was going to ask kids questions to try to find out if there was a problem. I think there are many ways we already know that this is a problem. We have teen pregnancy rates. We have the youth risk behavior surveillance and we also have our abortion rates and STD rates.
So spending the money and the time to survey kids on these specific questions seems like -- it seems like our resources could be used in other ways.
NEVILLE: So you think it's not a good idea to go ahead and do this?
GRAY: I think it's not a good idea to ask specific sex questions, that's right.
KURIANSKY: I totally disagree with that.
NEVILLE: Doctor, if you could excuse me. Let me go ahead and let's share with the audience some of the questions that are on the survey. Questions like: how old were you when you first had sex? Did you drink alcohol beforehand? Have you ever had oral sex?
Dr. Judy?
KURIANSKY: Yes. I think those are very valid and important and crucial questions, because kids are already participating in these behaviors and it is extremely important to make that connection, that drinking and sex do go together. That is often how kids get involved in sex.
And we need to know that, and then programs need to be set up in order to help the kids understand that connection and make a disconnection.
With regard to oral sex, a hot subject, I might say, remember that when Monicagate happened and the whole crisis with the President Clinton asking whether or not he had sex and the disclaimer that oral sex was not really sex, I've been working with teens for many, many years. They still to this day will believe that if they had oral sex they did not have sex.
Well, that distinction needs to be made for them. And, therefore, it has to be brought up. You cannot play the "stick your head in the sand like an ostrich" syndrome here.
GRAY: I absolutely agree with that. If I can interject here with Dr. Judy, I think that we do need to address these topics.
And that's exactly my point, is that asking the children the questions doesn't solve the problem. We need to put programs in place.
Our programs have been introduced to the Fairfax County schools, and they were not put in place. So Fairfax County has no abstinence programs in place to address some of these topics. Let's put the programs in place and then figure out if they work.
But we already know that sex and alcohol and drugs go together. We don't need another survey to tell us that.
NEVILLE: OK, and Libby, listen, and Dr. Judy, I have to take a break right now. But when I come back, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. And that is, what about the parents? We're talking about these school programs asking these questions. When should the parents ask these questions?
And Gunner, I know you are e-mailing me. I'll get to that after the break as well, and we are going to pose the question of the day, "Should the schools ask kids about sex?" Go ahead and give me a call. 1-800-310-4CNN or go ahead, e-mail me at talkback@CNN.com.
Plus, stay right where you are. Charles Barkley will talk about basketball star Shaquille O'Neal's comments that outraged Chinese- Americans. We're back in a moment. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS ALERT)
NEVILLE: And we're talking about a controversial proposal to survey high school students about their sexual histories. And before the break -- Libby I wanted to talk to you about this first. Do you think that parents should be doing more talking to the kids instead of just the school programs?
GRAY: Most definitely. Parents have a profound influence on their children's lives. And we have a parent program that we use in the Chicago schools, and it's also available nationwide, to talk to parents about not only talking to their children about sex, but how to have a better relationship, better communication with their children in general. So this discussion really does need to start at home.
NEVILLE: OK. I have an interesting e-mail coming in now from Gunnar. Gunnar says, "Being a high school senior, I know that sex is on youths' minds. A simple survey wouldn't put the idea into our heads. It's already there. If we act on it, that's another decision."
And Chris (ph), here in the audience, are you in high school, Chris (ph)? Stand up for me. But how old are you?
CHRIS: Nineteen years old right now.
NEVILLE: Tell me what you think about how teenagers feel about sex.
CHRIS: I definitely feel that, of course, all teens are thinking about sex. But just because you're having a survey, they're not going to go and act out on it. What they need to do is stop worrying about trying to hide these things from kids and give kids the tools that they need to make good decisions in their lives.
That's what they need to do instead of just trying to shelter us all from it, because it's out there already. It's in the media; it's everywhere.
NEVILLE: So would it help teens if parents do more talking to their kids?
CHRIS: It would help a whole lot, actually. That's where the main talking should come from. But not all kids have parents that are doing that.
NEVILLE: And why is that, Dr. Judy?
KURIANSKY: Well, Gunnar and Chris (ph) have such brilliant things to say. Aren't we encouraged about the youth of today to hear those kinds of things? They don't do it for three reasons. Parents would like to be the primary sex educators of their kids; they should be, but they have anxieties.
No. 1, they don't know the answers to a lot of the questions. Number two, they're embarrassed to talk about sex. And number three, they may have some of their own sexual problems that make them even more resistant to do that and to voice them on their kids.
This has been shown by lots of research about why parents have these resistances. The solution to that is educating parents as well. The school can play a role in that, and then facilitating the discussions between the parents and the school...
NEVILLE: And Dr. Judy, what do you think about parents who all they know is to tell children sex is bad, sex is bad? You know what I mean? As opposed to explaining the possible dangers involved and why you should abstain?
KURIANSKY: Arthel, brilliant. That is exactly the problem. Remember when Nancy Reagan had the "Just say no?" Well when you say no and tell kids no and tell them what to do, you risk a rebellion, and also what's planted in their head is a negative thought. You want to plant in their head the things positive they can do.
And the most important thing is what was in Gunnar's e-mail that you read. A word he used called "decision." What needs to happen is that the schools and parents need to teach young kids and adolescents, because they're 12 years old having sexual activities, is decision- making. And this is (ph) from the psychological point of view, what cognizant skills need to happen?
How do you make a smart decision about drinking and about drugs and about sex? And then how do you decide what is best for you, what the consequences are going to be? That's what needs to be taught. Not "Just say no."
NEVILLE: Let me go to Ohio now, where Jen (ph) is standing by on the phone. She's a high school student. And Jen (ph), I want to ask you, do you think schools should be asking teens about sex?
JEN: I definitely think that they should be asking, because when adults can find out more about what the teenagers know, they can find better ways to educate high school students. Because we have abstinence-only sex programs in our school and it doesn't really do a whole lot to educate us about -- because I mean, obviously, a lot of people are making those decisions to have sex.
So they need to find out, you know, ways about contraception and things like that. And I think that that would help out a lot more than just abstinence-only programs. NEVILLE: Jen (ph), what about your mother? Do you talk to your mother about sex?
JEN: Actually, no, not really. And I think, though, it would help a lot more if parents got more involved in communicating with their teenagers about sex and smart ways to go about it.
NEVILLE: OK. Jen (ph), I'd love to talk to you more, but unfortunately I'm short on time. But I do appreciate your call. That was Jen (ph) from Ohio.
And Libby, bringing you back into the conversation again here.
GRAY: Yes.
NEVILLE: If, in fact, these -- the schools -- Fairfax County school district goes ahead with this teen sex survey, do you think they can depend on getting accurate answers?
GRAY: Well that's a very good question, because I noticed that they are giving parents the option to see -- not to see the survey questions, which is interesting, but to actually see, you know, what types of questions are being asked. And I think you run the risk there. Some parents will remove their children, not allow their children to take part in the questionnaire. Then you have contamination of results.
One of the things that I wanted to point out is that abstinence programs specifically address what abstinence is and what it isn't. And that includes a discussion about oral sex. It includes talking about that abstinence means abstaining from all genital contact and sexual stimulation, not limited to sexual intercourse.
So we need to have more of these types of programs. I think if the survey goes forward it's very important to introduce some programs that can address the problem. Specifically teenage sexual activity, and not just enter into a sex ed program that doesn't specifically help kids understand the risks and learn how to say no, and also develop character in other ways.
NEVILLE: And Libby Gray...
KURIANSKY: We have heard from a lot of kids today. We need to hear from the kids and listen to them instead of deciding what they should be taught or not. You've heard these kids here say that they want to know more about sex. They don't want just abstinence only. Let's pay attention to them.
NEVILLE: OK. Dr. Judy, Libby Gray, thank you for so much for joining us here today on TALKBACK LIVE. Do appreciate it.
GRAY: Thank you.
NEVILLE: OK, everybody. Charles Barkley is waiting to come on down to center stage. There he is. And we've been saving something for him. Shaquille O'Neal has been apologizing for stereotyping rival Yao Ming. So-called stereotyping. Shaq says he was just having a little fun, but who's laughing? We're going to find out and talk about it when we come back, so stay right where you are.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
Does Shaquille O'Neal need sensitivity training? The Lakers' superstar says he's a wannabe comedian, but six months ago one of O'Neal's jokes fell flat, and he has been apologizing ever since. Even as late as last Friday.
What happened is the Lakers' star was asked by a reporter about rival Yao Ming, a center for the Houston Rockets from China. Now you can read there how Shaq replies in a mock Chinese accent. The remark sparked a protest last Friday in Houston, where the Lakers were playing the Rockets. Now after the game, Shaq had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, BASKETBALL PLAYER: Yao Ming is my brother. Asian people are my brothers. I have an Asian doctor. And it's just unfortunate that an idiot writer would try to start a racial war when there's really nothing there.
Yao Ming says something about Shaq's game, Shaq says something about Yao Ming. Don't try to make it a war against blacks and Asians. Because I grew up in the military, and I grew uparound Asians, whites, Jews, Muslims, Christians. I've always been a clean person. I said a joke. Maybe it was funny, maybe it wasn't that funny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK. Let's get into it now with CNN contributor Charles Barkley. And in Washington, we're joined by Mae Cheng, president of the Asian-American Journalists Association and a staff writer at "Newsday." And, first of all, Mae, I'll start with you. Were Shaq's comments offensive?
MAE CHENG, ASIAN-AMERICAN JOURNALISTS ASSOCIATION: Well, we at the American-American Journalists Association are upset at the lack of mainstream media coverage on this issue, because it is offensive to the Asian-American community. These are very hurtful remarks. It conjures up memories of when many Asians and Asian-Americans were young growing up here in the United States and these were the taunts that we heard as we grew up.
Because Shaquille O'Neal says that he has many Asian-American friends and he has an Asian-American doctor, he should know how hurtful these remarks are.
NEVILLE: So when you said that there isn't enough national media attention on this, so, in fact, is that why the Asian-American community is being so vocal about this?
CHENG: Well the lack of coverage in the mainstream media condones this type of racist behavior in a profession where Asians and Asian-American contributions to American sports have not been valued. They consistently have been seen as outsiders. When Michelle Kwan lost the gold medal to Tara Lipinski, some of the headlines read -- referred to Michelle Kwan as not being American, when she is in fact Asian-American.
So Asians have consistently been looked upon in sports as outsiders. And that's why it's important for the mainstream media to hold Shaquille O'Neal accountable for what he said to a reporter.
NEVILLE: So Mae, before I get Charles involved here, I want to ask you, do you think Shaq is a racist?
CHENG: No. I'm not saying that Shaq is a racist. I don't know him well enough to say that. But his remarks are racist and they are hurtful. And again, he should know better.
NEVILLE: Charles, racist remarks or a joke?
CHARLES BARKLEY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well I think, obviously, it's a joke. And I think people -- we've lost all common sense as far as what anybody says in this country. Like you know when somebody's trying to be offensive and somebody is trying not to be offensive. But we've gotten so sensitive. We're getting politically correct on every subject in this country.
And, first of all, if they're offended by this, he's already apologized. I would like to know what they'd like to do to him.
NEVILLE: Hang on for me, Mae Cheng. I know Joe (ph) is standing by on the line too. Listen, I have to take a break. I'll take your call when I come back, Joe (ph). And Mae, I'll give you a chance to chime in, and I want to talk to Charles a little bit more about this.
The "Talk" continues after this break. Stay right where you are.
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NEVILLE: OK, everybody. Shaq says he'll do what's good for the game. Is any kind of publicity good for the game of sports?
We're talking about Shaquille O'Neal, Yao Ming. Going to the phones now. Joe (ph) in Ohio, what do you think about Shaq's remarks?
JOE: Well I think the remark is bad, obviously. But my concern is, if a black man makes a remark like that and he apologized, well, that's the end of it. But if the Oriental had made that remark, the other way, you could have fires in Chinatown already. My god.
That's what I'm saying. It's not a two-edge sword here. Racism is only one-sided if it comes from white people. NEVILLE: So Joe (ph), do you think Shaq is a racist? Is what you're saying?
JOE: No. I'm just saying the remark is brought out to be racism. I make remarks to my friends all the time and we laugh about it. But I'm saying an issue is made out of a simple thing, but it's made more of an issue because it's coming the other way. And that's the part I don't understand.
NEVILLE: OK, Joe (ph). Thanks for calling in. We want to talk to you about that, Charles. Joe (ph) from Ohio saying, listen, if someone had made a remark like -- any sort of derogatory remark towards a black person, then all you know what would break loose.
BARKLEY: Well I disagree with that. It depends on the context they used it. You know I'm going to cut through all the BS.
NEVILLE: You are?
BARKLEY: I can't remember -- no, seriously. I can't remember the last time I've had a conversation with one of my black friends when the "N" word didn't come up. We call each other that all the time. Now I understand that's the way we talk to each other.
Now, if David Duke, who's gone to jail and should have been in jail a long time ago, if he calls me the "N" word, I know that's offensive and it's meant to hurt my feelings. Common sense has to come into play. And to me this is -- she said his apology wasn't sincere.
Come on, now. Trent Lott -- I know -- first of all, you can't trust that guy. He went on BET. You knew he was going down. You know? To compare...
NEVILLE: All right. Listen, you know what I want to do right now?
BARKLEY: To compare what Shaq said, he's apologized twofold, and compare that to the Trent Lott, is absurd.
NEVILLE: So Mae, is the apology enough?
CHENG: I don't know. I mean, Shaq said that it was a joke. And it was just meant as a joke. I'm not sure that he came out and apologized to the Asian-American community for his remarks.
I mean, going back to the caller, yes, the caller may joke about this to his friends. But the difference is Shaquille O'Neal is a role model for a lot of impressionable young kids in America. And the things he says in public that are racist hurts the dialogue on race in America.
NEVILLE: So quickly, Mae, what can Shaquille do to undo what he said?
CHENG: Because he's a public figure, I think, you know, he needs to come out and he needs to talk with the Asian-American community. And I don't know, work with us on talking about race in America. For so long the dialogue on race in America has been centered around blacks and whites, and then when there are racist remarks made about Asians, it's kind of just neglected.
NEVILLE: OK. Mae Cheng, thank you so much for joining us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.
CHENG: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
NEVILLE: Of course. And after the break, I'm going to take your comments on our "Question of the Day." Should schools be asking kids about sex? Go ahead and give me a call: 1-800-310-4CNN, or e-mail me at talkback@cnn.com. We are back after this break.
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NEVILLE: OK. Our "Question of the Day" is should schools be asking kids about sex? E-mails coming in right now I want to share with you. Ed in Chicago: "The survey is needed to a point. Kids today think that they cannot receive STDs through oral sex. That shows they have very little knowledge of protecting themselves."
Another e-mail coming in right now. It's from Sherry. She says, "FYI to all of you blind parents. Teens do have sex. If they are not learning the fundamentals at home, then they need to learn them at school."
And that is all the time we have. But you know what? Before I go on, how old is your daughter, Charles?
BARKLEY: Thirteen.
NEVILLE: Thirteen. Put up that mike to your mouth and tell me what you think about this survey.
BARKLEY: Hey, man, I'm scared to death thinking about my daughter having sex. But I think we -- obviously parents have to take the lead role. It's not up to be schools. But I have no problem with the schools passing out these things.
NEVILLE: OK. Charles Barkley, nice to see you, as always.
BARKLEY: Thanks, darling.
NEVILLE: I'm Arthel Neville. I'll see you again tomorrow at 3:00 Eastern, 12:00 Pacific. Judy Woodruff, "INSIDE POLITICS" up next.
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