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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE

U.S., Iraq Exchange Blows Over Finding of Warheads; Oil Prices Hit Two Year High

Aired January 17, 2003 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Friday, January 17. And now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening. The United States and Iraq exchange strong language today as they prepared for a possible conflict. The White House said it is troubling and serious that the United Nations found empty chemical warheads in Iraq. Secretary of State Colin Powell said there will be conclusive evidence by the end of this month that Iraq is not cooperating with the U.N. weapons inspectors. And Saddam Hussein called upon Iraqis to rise up in defense of their country. And world markets took note of all of that.

Oil prices today hit a two-year high. Gasoline futures also rose and the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 113 points. We begin tonight at White House with Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the White House is confident it has a strong case against Saddam Hussein. Secretary of State Colin Powell urging members of the U.N. Security Council to put additional pressure on Iraq. The secretary making news earlier today when he told a German newspaper reporter, and I'm quoting, "we believe a persuasive case will be there at the end of the month that Iraq is not cooperating."

Why this confidence? The White House believes that Saddam Hussein has not accounted for his weapons of mass destruction, that he continues to hide them. They also bring up the point, the discovery of 12 empty chemical warheads saying U.S. officials found that it was not included in the Iraqi declaration. They say it's just another piece of evidence that Saddam Hussein refuses to disarm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We continue to look for whether or not Saddam Hussein is disarming. And obviously the discovery of 12 chemical warheads is proof that he has not disarmed, especially when you consider the fact that for the purpose of letting the world know whether he had disarmed he filed a declaration saying that he did not have weapons. He also filed a declaration that did not include these 12 warheads at the bunker. And now we know, of course, that he has them.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: The president earlier today at the Walter Reed Medical Center visiting soldiers who have been injured in the war in Afghanistan. It seems like a distant memory for many Americans, the focus being on Saddam Hussein and Iraq, the focus of the hunt for al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. But the Bush administration making it very clear today that the president could extend that war in terror in Iraq. He has not made that decision, but it's a critical decision that we are told will be made within weeks -- Lou.

DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.

Saddam Hussein today said his army would defeat U.S. troops at the gates of Baghdad. Nic Robertson reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Demonstrators at a Baghdad rally destroyed the effigy of a U.S. president. Seems reminiscent of the Iraqi capital on the eve of the Gulf War 12 years ago.

The 2,000 strong crowd at this government-organized protest chant their support for President Saddam Hussein, just as they did 12 years ago. In his annual address, commemorating the start of the Gulf War, President Saddam Hussein told the Iraqis they had been victorious. Reminding them of Baghdad's destruction in the 13th century by Mongol armies, he called on Iraqis to defend their capital.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): The people and the rulers of Baghdad have resolved to compel the Mongols of this age to commit suicide on its walls.

ROBERTSON: The anniversary made little difference to the U.N. weapons inspectors. Teams continued their work, this day at an ice factory and a former chemical plant.

Their discovery Thursday of a dozen empty chemical warheads being played down here as officials counter criticism they're not cooperating with inspectors.

MOHAMMAD AL DOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Iraq has already (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So I don't think we can give Bush more than we give already.

ROBERTSON: In continuing efforts to build regional support, Ali Hassan Al Majeed, a cousin of the Iraqi president and one of his most trusted officials, left for Syria and other Arab countries, dismissing speculation that Saddam might go into exile.

ALI HASSAN AL MAJEED, IRAQI OFFICIAL (through translator): These are ridiculous conclusion, nonsense. It's part of the psychological war technique.

ROBERTSON: Closer to home in Baghdad, a small sign of some improving diplomatic relations. Iraqi and Russian officials signing an oil deal, following the cancellation late last year of a massive Russian oil project.

(on camera): It's just this sort of support that Iraqi officials hope to build on to deter any war. The message this day, however, if that's not possible, they'll fight to the end.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Nearly 10,000 sailors and Marines left the San Diego naval base in Camp Pendleton today headed to the Persian Gulf. Seven amphibious ships will join the massive buildup of U.S. forces there. National correspondent Frank Buckley joins us now from San Diego, California -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, a tremendous day here in Southern California of emotion for the sailors and Marines who are deploying and their families, and of display of military might and military hardware, some of it still on display here at Camp Pendleton. That's LCAC 64 back there; that is a military hovercraft that we actually rode in on earlier today from the USS Bonhomme Richard.

Let me start at the beginning of the day, however. This morning on pier 13 in San Diego, where there were some emotional goodbyes; 10,000 sailors and Marines deploying on seven amphibious ships headed to the Persian Gulf.

Later some of the LCACs like the one we just showed you down here took off from Camp Pendleton, bound for the USS Bonhomme Richard and the USS Boxer. We saw those LCACs traveling at 50 knots. And I was actually on board the USS Bonhomme Richard when the first LCAC came aboard. Let me show you what that was like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And this is what it looks like as the LCAC is coming aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard. It is carrying light-armored vehicles as it comes into what's called the well deck here. And joining me to explain what we are seeing as it comes aboard here is Gunny Sergeant Alexander Thorpe (ph). Gunny, tell us what's happening right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, sir, the LCAC is coming to offload a few vehicles, sir, and it's going (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pull them up here on the upper deck (ph), and we're going to get a few more LCACs in a little later, and that should complete our total load, sir.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): Three light armored vehicles came off this LCAC onto the ship. We also witnessed the arrival of some of the 19 harrier jets that are capable of vertical takeoffs and landings that will also go onto the Bonhomme Richard to the Persian Gulf. Then we had a chance to ride on the LCAC all the way back to Camp Pendleton. We traveled at 50 knots across the top of the water, then we came ashore on the beech at Camp Pendleton the same way that Marines and their vehicles may come ashore if called on to do so in the weeks and months ahead. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And LCAC 64, which is the one that we rode in still behind me, preparing to go back out now to meet the USS Bonhomme Richard, taking the last light-armored vehicles here. The harriers are aboard, the helicopters are aboard. Seven amphibious assault ships tonight headed for the Persian Gulf -- Lou.

DOBBS: The Bonhomme Richard, it will deploy tonight, then?

BUCKLEY: It is actually under way already, Lou. They're just waiting for the last of the LCACs here to meet them offshore. There are about 25 to 30 miles offshore. These LCACs can travel up to 50 knots across the water. They'll be there fairly quickly; then they will be on their way.

DOBBS: Frank, thank you very much. Frank Buckley from San Diego.

Heavy equipment for the U.S. Marines arrived in Kuwait today. Marines unloaded tanks, artillery and supplies from a huge cargo ship. Martin Savidge has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may take troops to wage a war, but it's the equipment that allows them to fight. In Kuwait, the beams, bullets and bandages are rolling ashore, along with the Humvees, tanks and artillery. Another indication of the increasing military buildup here.

This pre-positioning ship, as it's called, is so packed with supplies it's taking two days to unload. The cargo is for the 45,000 U.S. Marines now in or headed for the Persian Gulf region.

(on camera): Pre-positioning ships are pre-placed in oceans around the world to quickly deliver their potentially lethal cargo into the hands of a fighting force.

(voice-over): The U.S. Navy has 13 such ships, divided into squadrons in the Mediterranean, western Pacific and Indian Ocean. Each squadron is said to carry enough warfare hardware to keep 17,000 Marines in combat for up to 30 days. The military doesn't necessarily know ahead of time when the ships may be called into action, the fact demonstrated by the forest green camouflage sported by some of the military vehicles now headed for the desert.

A group of Marines from Camp Pendleton, California flew out to meet the vessel while it was still at sea, to prepare the gear for offloading. Military officials say this isn't the first such ship to arrive here and it definitely won't be the last.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Kuwait.

(END VIDEOTAPE) DOBBS: Pentagon officials today said the United States has now moved closer to an agreement to base troops in Turkey. Reports saying that Turkey may allow 15,000 troops to be deployed for a possible conflict with Iraq. The United States has asked Turkey for permission to base as many as 80,000 troops in Turkey.

A large majority of Americans now believe that discovery of empty chemical warheads in Iraq proves that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. The CNN-"TIME" poll found that almost two thirds surveyed believe the warheads constitute definite proof; 22 percent say not.

Meanwhile, President Bush is enjoying a 61 percent approval rating. That according to the latest poll by Gallup. The president has enjoyed consistently high approval ratings since taking office two years ago.

In the war on terror, a 27-year-old man appeared in court today, charged with stabbing a British police officer to death. The man was arrested during a police raid on an apartment in Manchester, England. The police were investigating an alleged plot to use the deadly poison ricin. Four other many arrested in early January made a separate court appearance today.

A Senate committee today approved the nomination of Tom Ridge to head the new Homeland Security Department. The full Senate is not expected to vote on Ridge's nomination until next week. Today, Ridge told senators he believes America is safer today than before September 11. Ridge has served as director of the White House office of homeland security for the past 15 months.

Coming up next -- Congressmen are worried they could lose a popular e-mail service. Tim O'Brien will have the story -- Tim.

TIM O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, a patent infringement lawsuit threatens the BlackBerry Internet service and on the Capitol Hill, where they use thousands of these BlackBerry devices, Congress is taking notice.

DOBBS: Also tonight -- as we reported, a big decline on Wall Street today. We'll have details. We'll be discussing the market and its likely direction with our "Editor's Circle" tonight -- from "Fortune" magazine, "Forbes" and "BusinessWeek."

And we'll have a special report on the progress made by African- Americans over the past 25 years. Peter Viles has that story -- Peter.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, one of the reasons the debate over affirmative action so intense: education has been an area of dramatic gains for African-Americans -- Lou.

DOBBS: We'll have all of that and a great deal more next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The president's national security adviser said today she believes race can play a role in university admissions. Condoleezza Rice said that she believed it is appropriate to use race as one factor, among others, in achieving a diverse student body. The White House filed a brief for the Supreme Court yesterday in which it argued that the University of Michigan's admission policy is unfair. That policy awards points to minority applicants, and, of course, Condoleezza Rice advising and agreeing with the president on the administration's position.

The recent debate over affirmative action comes as the country prepares to mark Martin Luther King Day on Monday. Whether or not affirmative action is responsible, many African-Americans have made strides since Dr. King was assassinated.

Peter Viles has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES (voice-over): In the 34 years since Martin Luther King was assassinated, African-Americans have made gradual progress in closing the income and poverty gaps with white America.

But the clearest gains have been education, one reason the affirmative action debate resonates as it does.

MAYOR KWAME KILPATRICK, DETROIT, MICHIGAN: People that are educated raise educated children. People that are educated have more access to capital. People that are educated usually have health insurance. People that are educated usually are able to pick themselves up and do what they need to do for their families and community.

VILES: In 1968, whites were twice as likely to attend college: 27 percent to 14 percent. But by 2000, the gap had closed considerably: 38 percent to 30 percent.

In traditional economic measures, there has also been some progress but it has been uneven. Since 1940, average wages paid to African-American males have gained steadily from 43 percent of what white men were paid to 78 percent.

But median household income lags at 69 percent of the white median in part because African-American families are less likely to be headed by two working parents.

HARRY HOLZER, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think the progress has been pretty uneven, some time periods like right after the signing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that 10 or so years after that were a period of dramatic progress. Other periods like the 1980s, early '90s were not very good years and then somewhat better in the last five years or so.

VILES: And the gap in unemployment levels has been stubbornly consistent. In 1970, African-American employment averaged 10.5 percent, double the white level. Those figures are virtually unchanged 32 years later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

One big area of differences between the races in this country: political views and perception of the economy.

Polls show white Americans are much more likely -- about twice as likely -- to believe the country is headed in the right direction -- Lou.

DOBBS: Pete, thank you very much.

Well, in other news tonight, Congressmen have many things on their minds, of course, but one particular issue lawmakers have taken the unusual step of intervening in a private lawsuit -- so they can keep their BlackBerry e-mail devices.

Tim O'Brien reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): They look like oversized beepers, but these devices are a lot more.

You can send and receive e-mails on them, access e-mail on your home or office computer, and even get the latest news and sports scores.

They're omnipresent on Wall Street and on Capitol Hill.

When terror struck on 9/11, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer was reading about it on his.

Last month, when Al Gore decided he wouldn't run for president next time around, one of the first persons he told was his old running mate, Joe Lieberman.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: As befits our relationship in the 21st Century, our communications were by e-mail or by -- I don't want to do a product promotion, but it was by BlackBerry.

O'BRIEN: Research analyst Scott Cleland, who himself uses a BlackBerry, says users get addicted to them.

SCOTT CLELAND, CEO, PRECURSOR GROUP: There are a lot of CEOs and their managements, there's a lot of politicians, obviously, that use them. And anybody who wants to stay in touch and in control absolutely love their BlackBerry.

O'BRIEN: The House of Representatives has issued some 3,000 BlackBerrys to members and staff and has invested some $6 million in the technology. So it shouldn't come as any surprise that a patent infringement suit that could disrupt BlackBerry's operations is setting off alarm bells in the halls of Congress.

The Blackberry is produced by the Canadian firm Research in Motion. But a Virginia company, NTP, Inc., is asking a federal court to shut down the company's operations until it pays royalties on the patent.

In a letter to NTP lawyers, James Eagan, chief administrative officer of the House, says: "If the service were to cease it would significantly impact the ability of the House to conduct business and maintain communications between members and staff, both day to day and in the event of an emergency or terrorist attack."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now NTP, which has already won a $23 million jury award in the case, has responded, says it is more than willing to accommodate Congress and the royalty issue could still be settled out of court.

But it is most unusual for the House to get involved in a pending patent infringement case. Lou, on Capitol Hill, this case is being watched closely and taken very seriously.

DOBBS: Of course. To not take it seriously in Washington would be a totally anti-cultural there. Thank you very much, Tim. Tim O'Brien.

Coming up next, we'll continue our look at a decline in culture. Tonight we look at the often maligned world of sports, particularly professional sports. Casey Wian is in Los Angeles with the story -- Casey.

CASEY WIAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Lou, young athletes used to copy their sports heroes' batting stance or dribbling moves. Now a growing number are mimicking their bad behavior on and off the court as more sports stars are ending up behind bars -- Lou.

DOBBS: Casey, thank you.

And tonight we'll be joined by Texas Tech head basketball coach Bob Knight and "Washington Post" sports editor George Solomon. All of that and a great deal more still ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Sports stars today are increasingly making headlines for what they do outside the arena. Philadelphia 76ers star Allen Iverson has repeatedly faced police charges ranging from assault to weapons violations. Iverson certainly not alone.

And tonight in our series, culture in decline, Casey Wian takes a look at the changing face of professional and college sports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WIAN (voice-over): It's a tragedy that might have gone unnoticed outside of Dallas. Two men trying to rescue victims of a traffic accident Tuesday were themselves hit and killed by a car going 110 miles an hour. The hit-and-run driver, according to police, Dallas Cowboys defensive back Dwayne Goodrich, who's been charged with manslaughter. He's the latest in a steady stream of athletes on the wrong side of the law.

The NBA's Portland Trailblazers, or Jail Blazers, as many prefer, recently had three players arrested during a five-day span. One local businessman grew so disgusted he launched a boycott.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just fed up with the way the Blazers have been presenting themselves.

WIAN: They're not alone. Take Latrell Sprewell, infamous for choking a former coach. This season he was temporarily booted off the New York Knicks and fined a quarter million dollars, reportedly for breaking his hand in a fight aboard his yacht.

And then there's former New Jersey Net Jayson Williams. He faces manslaughter charges in the shooting death of his limo driver.

(on camera): However, the crime of choice for most top athletes these days appears to be wife or girlfriend beating. We counted 32 cases of domestic violence against major college or pro athletes in just the past year. Even the mascot of the Denver Nuggets was jailed following a domestic dispute.

(voice-over): Michael Josephson works with high school and college sports teams, promoting a program called Victory With Honor.

MICHAEL JOSEPHSON, JOSEPHSON INSTITUTE OF ETHICS: One of the reasons we have so many athletes who are committing crimes and the like is they're growing up without discipline. They're growing up without consequences. Typically they'll do something wrong, they'll be bailed out of it. Nobody's going to let them go to jail, especially if they're going to miss the big game.

WIAN: Questionable behavior is rampant on the field as well. This season Terrell Owens pulled a pen out of his sock to autograph a ball immediately after a touchdown catch. O.J. Simpson was welcomed to practice by USC coaches and players. And parents continue to fight at youth league games.

For Los Angeles City high schools, which produced such respected stars as John Elway and Garret Anderson, countering the negative images and disciplining star athletes is a growing challenge. Especially given a shortage of highly qualified coaches and the money at stake in even high school sports.

BARBARA FIEGE, L.A. UNIFIED SCHOOLS ATHLETIC DIR.: There are behavioral issues on the court, on the field. You know, we have had to make rules about when coaches are thrown out of the game, when players are thrown out of the game. The coach will cuss out an official. We get a lot of that. The players will start talking back to an official. Those things never happened before.

WIAN: Los Angeles Public Schools now require players and coaches to sign codes of conduct.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: A stunning example of how athletes have lost respect for authority, or some athletes at least, happened this fall at the University of Arizona. Football players there complained the head coach, John Mackovic, was being insensitive and tried to have him fired.

One of their chief complaints, during a game he called a player a disgrace to his family. Mackovic apologized to the team, but the player in question was later arrested with 87 pounds of marijuana in a rented moving truck. He goes on trial next month while the coach still has his job -- Lou.

DOBBS: It sounds like sensitivities and sensibilities aren't always universal. Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian from Los Angeles.

Joining me now to talk about bad behavior and good in sports is Bob Knight. He's of course a legend in college basketball. Veteran "Washington Post" sports editor George Solomon. We're here to talk about sportsmanship and what we are not suggesting as a culture in decline but really asking the question is it?

George, if I may, let me begin with you. All that Casey Wian reported on is the tip of the iceberg. Is sportsmanship a thing lost in sports in this country?

GEORGE SOLOMON, SPORTS EDITOR, "WASHINGTON POST": Well, Lou, after that lead-in you make me feel that I've wasted a lifetime covering this. And it's just -- if I can just get off the set now and go kill myself, I'll feel much better.

(LAUGHTER)

DOBBS: I think that's a fair comment. We even use the language athletes. And we should be saying without question some athletes. And it's so easy to ignore the Cal Ripkens, the Sterling Sharpes.

But is it in your opinion, George, a serious issue?

SOLOMON: Well of course, it's serious, Lou. But I do think, and I always have, that sports reflects society, and that society indeed does undergo change. I think that's where we're at right now. I think obviously some of the acts that occur on the field and off the field related to sports certainly deserve a real close look.

But to come with that kind of a lead-in and suggest that, you know, this reflects sports might be a little unfair, Lou.

DOBBS: Well, it's a fair suggestion that it is unfair.

Bob Knight, let me turn to you for your thoughts.

BOB KNIGHT, HEAD BASKETBALL COACH, TEXAS TECH: Well, I think there were three things that have been mentioned so far, Lou. I think the word "consequences". I think anytime in athletics when there's something that's abnormal that takes place, and offsides, there's a consequence, a penalty. I think probably, beginning with parents, we've gotten away from consequences in the last few years.

Another comment that was made was, Well, it didn't used to happen this way. I've been around basketball all my life, and I think players have raised Cain with officials as long as I can remember, and coaches. So that's not something that's all of a sudden happened.

But I really like most of all what George said about a reflection of society. Because we're examining sports here, but I also think corruption in police departments, congressional corruption, corruption in the business area, just think of all of these Fortune 500 companies and what's taken place there.

Obviously there are some things in sports that none of us like, none of us appreciate. But I think that the guts of what we're talking about is exactly what George said, it's society, it's not just sports.

DOBBS: And if I may, George, follow up on that. If it is a reflection of society, what is happening that is changing the behavior of athletes? Because as Coach Knight says, athletes have always been demonstrative. I'll put it that way. But...

SOLOMON: Well, if you look you off the field, Lou, you know, back in the '30s Babe Ruth, you know, as Coach Knight would know, took a drink or two. You know, but it wasn't reported. And now, you know, with the media and with this intense coverage everything gets reported. And that's certainly, you know, one point of it.

The other point, and this is really important, is I think there's a decline in sportsmanship. That if you look on the field and you see someone make a tackle and then there's a taunt or someone does a slam dunk and there's a taunt, I don't think athletes respect each other probably as much as they should and as much as they used to.

Off the field, you know, obviously, there are a lot of transgressions, a lot of things happen off the field. You know, you would wish they would not happen. I am sure coach Knight feel the same. I'm sure the parents of these athletes feel the same, I'm sure the spouses feel the same. But I think if you compare the athletes with the rest of society and with the rest of the people who are getting in trouble, you'd be surprised to see it's not that much different.

DOBBS: Do you agree, coach?

KNIGHT: Yeah, I'm beginning to like George more and more as a media member as we go through this, because when he's talking about...

SOLOMON: Well, I'm looking to interrupt you, coach. I've always been, you know, for 25 years I have been looking to do that. So go ahead, though.

KNIGHT: But the point that you made that I think is such a good one is that there is so much more media coverage of everything now, and if we're to pick one area that most people gravitate to in terms of recreation, enjoyment, it's probably sports. I don't care what the sport is. It can be a participant sport -- golf, tennis, bowling, fishing, hunting; it can be a spectator sport, like the NFL, the NHL, the NBA, Major League Baseball.

And there is such an interest; such a high dollar is paid for advertising at major sporting events that people, you know, guys got a tough job meeting a grocery bill, and on Sunday he gets a chance to sit there and forget about it, and now he's upset because the Gophers didn't beat the Mountain Lions or whatever it might be during the course of the game. Sports just attracts a tremendous number of people, and I think consequently the interest in sport is so great.

Babe Ruth even in his heyday, George, might have been mild compared to some of today's athletes off the field, but yet as you said it just never was covered, and that's not really the point. I think, Lou, to what you were talking about, I think parental demands are much, much less today on kids than they were before, in your day, in mine, in George's. You and George and I were never able to get away in school systems what kids get away with today because of what's transpired in our courts.

DOBBS: Let me ask you both quickly...

SOLOMON: Lou, one quick point off of what coach Knight said -- nowadays if you get a 16-, 17-year-old superstar who's just going great guns, could go pro next year, could go to a big Division I school. Can you imagine a parent saying, look, you're not going to play, I don't like your grades, I don't like the people you are hanging out with. It just doesn't happen that way anymore.

DOBBS: Let me ask you both very quickly as we wrap up here -- your thoughts very quickly about what we can expect in the future in sportsmanship in sports? If the two are going to go together at all?

SOLOMON: I'll defer to coach Knight.

KNIGHT: Go ahead, George.

SOLOMON: Well, OK, you know, look, you would hope that sportsmanship gets better, that athletes respect each other more than they do, that fans respect each other more than they do. When I look at the Oakland Raider fandom and I say, you know, are they going to really respect the Tennessee Titans on Sunday, I roll my eyes. You know, it's changed. I remember my father taking me to Yankee Stadium where people stood up and applauded Ted Williams.

DOBBS: Coach Knight, you get the last word.

KNIGHT: I think really both Lou and George, I think it's going to take a real concentrated effort all across the board on the part of coaches saying, and the thing that you brought up, George, that I think really kind of led to all of this is going back to the National Football League -- and I love the guy. I think he's one of the great competitors that ever lived, but when Joe Namath wore white shoes, that set him apart from everybody else on the Jets. And I think it kind of started in there, and it kind of started when everybody needs an identity of themselves.

That's why I like Penn State's football team so much. It doesn't have the names of players on it. It's got "Penn State" on it. And I think until we get back to real team concepts, we're going to have the problems that we have today.

DOBBS: All right, coach Knight, thank you. You just picked on one of my favorite athletes, Joe Namath, but that's all right. George...

KNIGHT: Remember, I said he's one of the great competitors I've ever known, Lou. I love the guy.

DOBBS: Absolutely. George Solomon, we thank you very much. Coach Knight, we thank you, and go Red Raiders.

KNIGHT: Thank you. Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: And that brings us to our MONEYLINE poll question tonight -- do you think American culture is declining, improving or just about the same? Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have the preliminary results coming up in just a moment.

Still ahead -- our "CEO of the Week," a leader of a company whose stock has gained more than 90 percent. Also, top business journalists, the top editors. Our guests include Steve Forbes of "Forbes," Rik Kirkland of "Fortune," Jim Ellis of "Businessweek."

And gold prices rising quite dramatically. We'll have a special report on the wonderful stuff. All of that and more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The Nasdaq today dropped 3 percent, partly as a result of Microsoft's weak forecast. The Dow Jones Industrials down more than 1 percent. The market performance for the week, not too good. Christine Romans is here to tell us all about it.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Tough week, and it was mostly tech based. You talked about Microsoft and IBM; (UNINTELLIGIBLE) falling as well. Two stocks fell today for every one that rose on the Big Board, and volume was about 1.35 billion shares. Lou, they're talking about cautious tech company guidance, we're going to get a lot more earnings next week. They're also talking about Iraq and the weak economic news. There hasn't really been a lot of good economic news to get your hands on around here lately.

DOBBS: At best, mixed. The idea that we would have problems in technology should surprise it seems to me no one?

ROMANS: Absolutely. But you know, the Nasdaq is still up this year, the Dow is still up this year. We're not on track for that best start for the year ever anymore.

DOBBS: It evaporated over the course of the past week.

ROMANS: Yes. It's been a little tough, and really the best gains of the year came in the first couple of days. We've whittled away almost all of that.

DOBBS: And the Nasdaq this week down 5 percent.

ROMANS: Yes, down 5 percent.

DOBBS: Well, in terms of volume, how does this compare to last year when we were down?

ROMANS: It's interesting. Last year at this time, the Dow was down 1.7 percent. On average volume, Lou, of 2.3 billion shares a day. That's a lot more volume than we're seeing now, about 1.4 now, so 37 percent less volume this time this year.

DOBBS: Better prices, less interest?

ROMANS: Less interest.

DOBBS: We'll see how it works next week.

ROMANS: OK.

DOBBS: Thanks a lot, Christine.

The price of gold down more than $1 an ounce today. Gold, however, has been a rewarding investment, to say the least. It's now trading near a six-year high. Bill Tucker has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The investment landscape of gold is filled with true believers, people who believe, even against all odds that gold is the ultimate investment, whether worn or held in a vault. Last year their belief was rewarded. Ten of the top 10 best performing mutual funds were gold funds. Gold rose 24 percent in price, while stocks were battered for the third year in a row. Stocks may have been gold's best friend.

JEAN-MARIE EVEILLARD, SOGEN FUNDS PORTFOLIO MANAGER: There has been plenty of bad news over the past three years, and gold basically is the ultimate hedge, it's the insurance policy against the bad stuff.

TUCKER: In other words, in tense times those who turn to gold want something to hold onto, but not everyone is a true believer. Analysts note there are storage costs, insurance costs, no dividends, and they point to history.

MICHAEL DUDAS, BEAR STEARNS: If you look at what gold price has done over the past three, four weeks, we've gone up to about $350 an ounce. But if you look at over the last 10 years, over the decade of the '90s, the average gold price was $350 an ounce, so it's not like we are in uncharted territory right now.

TUCKER: Right now there is greater demand than there is supply, largely because it costs more to produce gold than it can be sold for. Central banks have helped fill that gap by selling gold into the market and by lending gold to mining companies. As those companies pay back the loans and close out their positions, they've had to buy gold in the market, helping inflate demand.

(on camera): And that is what prompted the widely followed gold analyst at Mitsui Global to lower his price outlook, saying that the rush to gold has actually been more like a trickle. His price target -- $335 an ounce.

Bill Tucker, CNN Financial News, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: I'm joined now by Rik Kirkland of "Fortune" magazine, Steve Forbes of "Forbes" magazine, and Jim Ellis of "Ellis" magazine -- excuse me, of "BusinessWeek" magazine.

Let me start with you first, Jim. The attack on medical malpractice awards by the president, how significant, how important?

JIM ELLIS, "BUSINESSWEEK": Significant in the sense that it is a cost that a lot of people are worried about. I actually think that the broader issue there is that it's a good opportunity for the president to come out and sort of push the notion of tort reform, which is something that, you know, we haven't heard a lot about lately, but it's another issue that he has been behind and a lot of people in the Republican base are behind.

And so it's probably a good thing to bring up now because, let's face it, a lot of the people who are sort of against it tend to not be Republicans.

RIK KIRKLAND, "FORTUNE": I think -- and, Jim, I think it was in sort of broad terms kind of a jab if this was a fight. This was not a big swing. This was tactics, not strategy.

I'm not seeing any sign yet that the president believes what he's pushing here. He pushed it last summer, too. But he couldn't get it through the Senate. And they're going to have to make a big push to get any kind of tort reform through the Congress this year. And they've got a pretty full agenda.

So I think this may have been just a little politics. You've got a tort -- John Edwards for North Carolina just announcing. It's a good thing to do, but I'm not sure how significant it is.

DOBBS: Do you think...

STEVE FORBES, "FORBES": He did some tort reform in Texas, and I think he will get it through the Senate this year. If Mississippi can pass tort reform, the United States Senate I think, will do the same. So I think it's the first step of a major move of getting some sanity back into the courtroom.

DOBBS: Now, Rik didn't even mention the Trial Lawyers Association. He just said they weren't Republicans. Is that out of respect for the Trial Lawyers Association?

KIRKLAND: No, I don't have a whole lot of respect for the trial lawyers. By the way, I think it would be a good thing if we had some tort reform. But I'm just saying -- I hope Steve's right, but I'm not sure it's going to happen this year.

DOBBS: Let's turn to the markets very quickly. We gave up -- best start ever up until Monday.

ELLIS: If we could have all sold out a week ago, it would have been great. I guess right now it's very difficult for the market to move ahead while there's the overhang of both the war and the craziness in Korea and just the weakness in the economy.

I think all of a sudden a lot of people are understanding that the economy is not nearly as robust as we had hoped a couple of weeks ago and even though the earnings reports that came out this week were actually very good the problem was that almost everyone said that they expect the first quarter to be slower than they had expected a few weeks ago.

DOBBS: You could almost hear CEOs being restrained from saying we don't have good visibility. Instead they were simply being cautious.

KIRKLAND: The new word instead of "visibility" the new word seems to be "challenging". I think we're going to hear that word more than any other word in the next three weeks.

FORBES: And then, too, there's no anything in being optimistic because if you're wrong you're going to get a lawsuit. So be cautious and then you'll look like a genius when you come in a penny or two above it.

DOBBS: The president making the decision on affirmative action, a very important part of every workplace, every educational institution in the country, coming out as opposed to the University of Michigan. What do you make of that?

FORBES: I think it was the least he could do. This was a blatant case. They didn't even disguise it in any way possible. I think he treated it very gingerly. I think the Supreme Court's going to throw it out. They may even use Bakke of '78, muddled though that is, to throw it out. Michigan I think has, probably, the weakest case of any of the universities.

DOBBS: Jim?

ELLIS: I'm going to have to be on the other side of it. I actually think that while he is raising a point that he has raised before I think that he's got a narrow window here to sort of placate certain people in his base who want this issue to be discussed and dealt with now but he wants to get this out of the way well before we start getting into the next electoral season.

DOBBS: Your thoughts?

KIRKLAND: Lou, I'm going to take a pass on this one, to be honest.

DOBBS: A pass?

KIRKLAND: A pass on it because I don't feel like I have a fully formed opinion to share with you and your viewers.

DOBBS: OK Well, instead of hearing Rik Kirkland's opinion I'd like to share with you...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: I think it's interesting to me that the president, Rik, with or without an opinion on the issue, chose to keep his viewpoints rather narrow on this and did not seek, as some of his conservative supporters would like, a broad attack on affirmative action. This is a rather narrow in focus...

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIS: I sort of see everything as political, and I actually think that in this case...

DOBBS: And you're never wrong.

ELLIS: ... in this case he actually sort of managed to get the point across to the base that this is an issue that I think is wrong and that we're going to work on. But at the same time he took the path that didn't scare a lot of suburban voters away by basically saying that there are other issues or other things we could use similar to what they did in Texas.

DOBBS: Let's turn to some issues that are related. Venezuela, a strike now heading toward its seventh week, curtailing that country's oil exports, principally to this country. Iraq and the prospect of war. Is it your judgment that we're going to see significant influence on markets as a result of these tensions, Steve, for some time?

FORBES: Yes. And I think it surprised people that Venezuela, not Iraq, is the one that's really knocking up the oil markets. And that's why the first quarter will be weak.

Once the Iraq crisis is, eventually someday it will be, out of the way, I think you'll start to see the economy really perk up again. But right now people are just holding back, consumers and business leaders.

KIRKLAND: The thing about Venezuela is even if OPEC raised their quotas, which they did recently, they only cover about half of it, and the Saudis are the guys who can fill it, it's going to take at least 60 days. So gas prices are probably up a nickel now and they'll probably be up another dime at least. So that's not helpful.

ELLIS: A lot of oil -- you know, the oil markets have reacted by pushing prices up. But what I've been shocked by looking at earning that came out this week from oil-dependent industries, particularly the airline business, I was stunned at how well they've been able to deal with higher pricing in the last couple of months.

I mean, even though it's the second largest cost, they've been able to, you know, sort of keep costs going down. So it might not be as big an impact at least initially as we think.

FORBES: And this underscores, corporations have been really cost-cutting. Productivity is there, and if you get any kind of boost in the economy you're going to see it on the bottom line very impressively, which is why I think when Iraq is finally out of the way the market's going to do extremely well.

DOBBS: If companies start spending again, right, Steve? That's got to restore the confidence...

FORBES: There are even signs of that happening.

DOBBS: Well, I think Steve is now, because the Nasdaq fell 5 percent this week, he's trying to get -- recover a little of that percentage toward his 50 percent forecast for...

FORBES: My fiscal year is different from yours.

KIRKLAND: We're going to be revisiting that all year, Steve.

DOBBS: Jim Ellis, Steve Forbes, Rik Kirkland, thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

A reminder to vote in tonight's "MONEYLINE Poll". Do you think American culture is declining, is it improving or just about the same? Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have the preliminary results for you just a little later.

And we want to thank you gentlemen again. See you next week.

Now to our "CEO of the Week", who is in an industry that's in the spotlight as the possibility of war with Iraq draws near. As the CEO of the nation's largest independent oil refiner, he's managed to build his company from a regional natural gas company to an energy powerhouse with $30 billion in revenue. Valero Energies. Bill Greehey, our "CEO of the Week".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS (voice-over): Valero Energy produces 2 million barrels of petroleum products a day. It operates 4,500 gas stations across the United States and Canada and has 22,000 employees and Valero has never laid off an employee. CEO Bill Greehey built the refining giant out of a spinoff in 1980 from the then troubled Coastal Corporation. A dozen acquisitions later it's the top independent refiner in the country.

BILL GREEHEY, CHMN. & CEO, VALERO ENERGY: We buy refineries and then we upgrade those refineries substantially and make them better. We increase capacity, increase the yields, increase and improve the operations.

DOBBS: Valero and the entire refining industry has had to hedge against the possibility of war and unrest in the biggest oil-producing countries.

GREEHEY: It's very difficult to position yourself because of the uncertainty in the market and what is going to happen. And Venezuela makes it more complicated.

DOBBS: The company draws its crude oil from countries all around the world and investors in Valero have seen their portfolios grow. Over the past three years the stock has gained more than 90 percent. Last year Valero slipped just 3 percent compared to the S&P 500's 23 percent decline.

Valero's board is independent, and Greehey does not serve on any other board.

GREEHEY: CEOs serve on too many boards. I don't serve on any boards because I don't feel like I have the time to do it. I was on one board, and I resigned because it was taking time away from the company.

DOBBS: But Greehey does contribute his time and money to charitable causes.

GREEHEY: I grew up very, very poor. We didn't have things. And I've seen, you know, people lacking. And now I have an opportunity to share with others, and it makes me feel good that I'm able to do that. And it's always more fun to give than to receive.

DOBBS: That sense of social responsibility carries throughout Valero. Last year Valero employees volunteered 140,000 hours of their time to charitable causes. The company is the smallest to ever win the Spirit of America Award, United Way's highest corporate honor. It's ranked 15th of the Fortune 500 for its corporate philanthropy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Bill Greehey, CEO of Valero Energy, congratulations.

Coming up next -- it may cost a fair amount to put a Hummer in your garage, but we'll tell you how some owners may be able to recover some of that money at, if you will, taxpayer expense. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Monday on LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE: American culture. Is it in decline? In a special holiday edition, we'll examine the use of profanity and language, the reflection of the family in primetime television and the decline of sportsmanship in athletics. That's Monday on LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Well, updating the number of days since Enron's collapse tonight: 412. The number of executives charged, still 36, including four from Enron.

Turning to the Hummer. The Hummer is more, it turns out, than just a big ugly SUV. For some, it's also a big tax break. Drivers who pay up to $60,000 for an H-2 can deduct nearly $38,000 of that cost. They only have use it for business more than 50 percent of the time. The tax loophole applies to vehicles over 6,000 pounds, designed back in the mid 80s to help farmers afford heavy equipment.

"CROSSFIRE" begins in just a few minutes, Let's go to James Carville and Bob Novak in Washington -- Bob.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Lou, we're going to talk about our usual Friday political potpourri and guess what? Bad news for the Democrats. George Bush is back up in the poll again and we got the hot best-selling book about his candidacy by former speechwriter David Frum, the author of the axis of evil and we'll grill Mr. Frum.

JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": And then Lou, we're going to have a big conversation about cellphones, and about Mayor Bloomberg's veto of the action of city council and cellphones are the most annoying things in the world and every yuppy that pulls one out of a restaurant. I don't know if that would be against the law for somebody walk up to them and slap them, that's for sure. But we're going to have a good show tonight here tonight.

DOBBS: I think we can take it to the bank, James. Thank you very much.

CARVILLE: Take that cell phone and shove it where the sun don't shine.

DOBBS: You know, the good news here, James, is I don't use them either.

Coming up next, your thoughts on American culture. We also have the results of tonight's MONEYLINE poll. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Results of tonight's poll. The question: "Do you believe American culture is declining, improving or about the same?" Eighty-three percent of you said declining; 5 percent said improving; 11 percent said about the same.

You may continue to vote on this question throughout the weekend, and we'll have the final results coming up next week. For a look at your thoughts now regarding our decline in culture series on television programming last night.

Connie West wrote into say, "I am supposed to read about what is on for 80+ channels, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and chip the TV so my kids don't have access? Dealing with crap TV takes more time than dealing with junk mail and spam combined."

And Jason Jackson from California said: "I believe today's younger generation have -- generations have greater moral clarity than any preceding generation. Your examples of cultural decline are really just young American asserting the most admirable cultural characteristic: American individualism."

We appreciate your thoughts and thanks for sharing them with us at moneyline@cnn.com.

That's MONEYLINE for tonight. Join us Monday for a special edition. We take a comprehensive look at the decline of culture at home, in the media, the boardroom. Have a great weekend.

For all of us here, good night from New York.

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