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CNN LIVE AT DAYBREAK

Interview with Richard Butler

Aired November 27, 2002 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The new weapons search in Iraq must bring back a number of memories for the last man to lead an inspection team there back in 1998. Let's get to him right now.
Richard Butler, the former head of the U.N. weapons inspection team, our guest once again, top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Richard, what do you take away right now, based on what you're listening and hearing from Nic Robertson's reporting over the past hour?

RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, hi, Bill. Good to see you.

I'm truly amazed. What the hell is happening here with journalists along for the ride? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that journalists are bad people, but you know, you hear what Nic was saying. He was allowed to go to the place. The inspectors, quite rightly, didn't want him inside when they were doing their job, but the Iraqis were saying, that's fine, you just come and come in later, and we'll show what was happening, you know.

This is -- the plot thickens, Bill. This is really interesting. You know, just what exactly -- what does a no-notice inspection mean when you've got representatives of the public media along? As I said, don't get me wrong, I am -- you know, I'm working with you. I think the media needs to tell the people what's happening. But it is a fascinating series of events that is unfolding.

What were they looking at? They were looking at a place that they went to before. They were checking their database. We talked about that yesterday. That's what they're going to do for the first few days, is check their past database.

But where this is going to go with journalists along for the ride I think is going to be fascinating to see.

HEMMER: Yes, listen, there are two sites that have been reported to have been searched today.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: One is a military complex about 12 miles east of Baghdad; another one, some sort of industrial complex northeast of the city.

BUTLER: Right. HEMMER: Do you recall these two locations, and can you share anything with us about what might possibly be there?

BUTLER: Bill, I think I do, but you know, I'd be aided if I knew the exact names of the places, and I don't think you yet have them. You know, so I can't be absolutely precise. But talking about a place where there was heavy industrial machinery where they were making motors or engines and so on, that suggests to me that possibly something connected to the missile program.

Northeast of Baghdad, I'm not sure. That, in the past, was possibly one of the chemical sites. But you know, we don't have a report back from them, is that right? I mean, Nic Robertson...

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: Thus far, you're exactly right on that, yes. Richard, how about this one?

BUTLER: Yes, right.

HEMMER: Let's talk really frank about this.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: It has been reported that between 700 and 900 sites will be inspected at some point over the next coming weeks or even months.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: There are fewer than 20 inspectors on the ground right now in a country that's the size of Texas.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: Eventually, the first part of December, that number totals 100. Still though, that is a minute number of people to inspect such a large area of land.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: How indeed will this all get done?

BUTLER: It worries me, Bill. It's not enough.

Look, at the height of our intense inspections in 1998, just before they threw us out, this was when I offered Iraq the end deal, you know, give us the last remaining things and we can wrap this up. In order to do that intensively, I had some 200 to 250 inspectors on the ground. I don't see how 100 can do this adequately.

But look, let's just suspend judgment for a few weeks. Bill, they are starting off as they should, which is to go and check the database. But as each day goes by, I would like to think that the inspections will become more intense. That equals needing more people. And if in the next few weeks we're going to be dealing with 40-50 inspectors, I'm not sure that that will be enough in, as you say, a country the size of Texas, where there are hundreds of sites involved.

But I want to say again, I'm not quite sure how no-notice inspections are going to work if you're going to have the sort of working media along...

HEMMER: Very (UNINTELLIGIBLE), yes.

BUTLER: ... while the inspections are taking place. I just don't know what to make of that.

HEMMER: One report said there were as many -- go ahead.

BUTLER: Sorry.

HEMMER: Yes, one report said about 50 vans full of journalists had tracked (ph) the first group of inspectors who went out.

Just about 30 seconds left. This new policy about freezing the sites. In essence, you get there, nobody goes in and nobody gets out and it stays frozen for some time.

BUTLER: Right.

HEMMER: Your thoughts on that, how would this work?

BUTLER: It's crucial. Bill -- Bill, that's absolutely crucial, and I'll tell you why, really simple. Too many times in the past, we've turned up at the front door of a site, and we were held up there, sometimes at gunpoint, only to be able to look through the fence or across the door and see trucks driving out of the back door taking prohibited materials away.

I was delighted to see this new decision that the inspectorate has the ability to say to Iraq, we're going to site A, and when we're there, it's frozen. Nothing moves in or out while we're there. It's a crucial requirement, and I'm glad they've got it at their disposal.

HEMMER: Well, thank you, Richard. I didn't mean to step all over your answer previously. A bit of a satellite delay going to Sydney, Australia. You got it...

BUTLER: No, no, no, no, sorry, that's fine.

HEMMER: You got it, fair enough. We'll talk again later this week.

BUTLER: It's good to talk with you.

HEMMER: You too, sir.

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