Skip to main content
CNN.com /TRANSCRIPTS

CNN TV
EDITIONS





CNN TALKBACK LIVE

Was Shooting at LAX Act of Terrorism?

Aired July 5, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, GUEST HOST: Hi everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE "free-for-all" Friday. I'm Carol Lin. Arthel has the day off. Now as usual we have a lot of ground to cover, and we begin today with the latest on yesterday's shooting at Los Angeles International Airport. Was it an act of terror? The answer you get depends on whom you ask.

Now police say Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, a 41-year-old Egyptian, opened fire at the El Al ticket counter yesterday killing two people and wounding four others. Hadayet himself was then killed by an El Al security guard. Israel was quick to call it an act of terror. The FBI is taking a wait-and-see attitude.

But joining from us Los Angeles is CNN's correspondent Frank Buckley. He's on the scene of where this actually took place. Frank, I know you're going to walk us through some of the steps but first off, I know you monitored the FBI news conference. What did you glean from that? How much more do we know about Hadayet?

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know at this point is that little was said as he came in here. According to the witnesses, it appears as though, according to the witnesses, he said nothing and simply began firing. We know according to the FBI that he had had a green card, that he is an Egyptian national. The green card allowed him to live in America, in the United States. We believe he was living in Irvine.

The police have gone to his home in Irvine and have searched it to find out what they can about him. As they say, they want to find out what made him tick, and we also discovered that so far investigators haven't determined an exact motive yet for what may have prompted the shooting yesterday.

LIN: Now the Israelis, Frank, are calling this an act of terror. The United States is holding back on this. What is it that the United States needs to know in order for it to be declared an act of terrorism or simply a horrible crime?

BUCKLEY: Well, it may be just a matter of a difference in terms. The U.S. is saying that while this isn't an act of terror to the extent that so far they haven't been able to make any connection between this suspect and any terror groups and any known plots, or anything like that. From their point of view it is an isolated incident in that sense. Israeli government officials have told me and others that it's their view that this was a terror attack based on the fact that El Al in the past has been the victim of such attacks, most notably in 1985 in Rome. Seventeen people were killed at an El Al counter there when terrorists used guns and grenades at that counter. There have been other attacks, as well, against El Al.

They say based on that and also based on the fact that when you look at the Bradley Terminal. I mean there are any number of ticket counters here. If you look across that side, there's Mexicana, Singapore Airlines. Over on this side at the end is Aero California, Lufthansa, and then all the way down here at the end is where the El Al counter is.

So that has also led, at least, the consulate officials here in Los Angeles to suggest that look, this may or may not be a so-called terror attack, but from their point of view this was an attack on El Al and at least in their initial view, this is a terror assault. But they are also saying look, we're not ruling out the possibility that this is simply a criminal act of some kind, not a so-called terror attack.

LIN: Frank, you're in a really unique position out there to literally be able to walk in the steps of this gunman. Show us what happened. How did it unfold there in the terminal?

BUCKLEY: Well, let me flip it around here to begin and tell you that FBI agents tell me that the suspect, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, actually fell where he began shooting, which was right about here. It's about 20 feet away from the actual El Al counter spot. According to the FBI chronology of how this took place, they believe that the suspect simply stood at this location and began shooting.

They say he had two guns with him, a .45-caliber gun and a 9 mm, and he also had a hunting knife, that he began shooting, that an El Al security agent confronted him, so did a passenger. They were wrestling with him, then from behind that counter somewhere, and we're not sure if he jumped over the counter or went under through the luggage space, but Hamin Saphir, the head security agent for El Al came out with his weapon and was shooting also at the suspect.

That's when the suspect went down during the struggle, apparently Hamin was shot and also was stabbed during that struggle. It's not clear at what point the kill shot happened, but at some point the suspect was shot dead and he fell at about this location. Hamin Saphir is being called a hero by law enforcement officials and Israeli officials.

They say that he clearly prevented the deaths of many more people. Also given the fact that the suspect had not only those two guns and a knife, but also other magazines with additional ammunition.

LIN: It looks like business as usual there at the international terminal. Is there any increased security? I don't see any national guardsmen or extra agents. BUCKLEY: You don't see National Guard, but the LAPD is out in strong force and what we've been told by police is look, some of the additional security measures you will see, some you won't. As you drive around the airport or walk around, you do see LAPD officers and airport officers just about everywhere. You may not see them now, but certainly they are out in force.

As to the impact on LAX and this Bradley Terminal, yesterday airport officials were expecting some 200,000 people to go through the airport yesterday alone. Here in the Bradley Terminal, which is the international terminal for LAX, some 35 flights were affected by what happened yesterday. Ten thousand five hundred passengers were delayed, but I'm told by the airport officials by midnight, all the flights except the El Al flight left. All the passengers were on their way and at 2:08 a.m. this morning the El Al flight financially pushed back.

LIN: All right, life goes on. Thank you very much. Frank Buckley reporting live from Los Angeles International Airport. Joining us now is Jalal Haidar. He is aviation security expert who also helped run the operations at, the security operations at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and also joining us on the telephone is Isaac Yeffet, the former director of security for El Al, Israel's, that's Israel's national airline. Thank you both for joining us.

I'm going to start with you, Mr. Haidar, first. Anything to learn from what happened at Los Angeles International Airport?

JALAL HAIDAR, AVIATION SECURITY EXPERT: Yes, another lesson in the making and it's definitely a bloody one, a costly one, costly in terms of human lives.

LIN: What do you mean a lesson in the making?

HAIDAR: Well, we're not going to have solutions for the aviation security problems overnight. That is not going to be achieved. Let's be realistic here. But there's one thing I think we should be very careful of. Was the incident a terrorist incident or attack or was it not?

Definitely when you commit an act of killing of innocent people, you are committing an act of terror, terrifying others, terrifying those who are innocent, whether they're passengers or employees behind the ticket counter. I hope it is not a terrorist act or it wasn't a terrorist act. I don't think it was, and I hope it wasn't. I believe it was an isolated incident. Yes, we have to do more.

However, we should not panic because if we do panic, if we try to really think that this is another one, another incident, another problem and therefore aviation is taking a setback, aviation security is not so effective or efficient, yes it's not effective 100 percent ...

LIN: It certainly raises a lot of questions about whether this could be stopped. Let me ask Mr. Yeffet on the telephone right now. What do you think? Could it have been stopped?

ISAAC YEFFET, FMR. EL AL DIR. OF SECURITY: We cannot stop anyone in a public area (UNINTELLIGIBLE) terminal at L.A. Most of the terminals around the country are public areas and although people can walk freely and no one can stop them to check I.D. or tickets, we cannot stop any terrorist who come to attack us.

The point is luckily we have security professionals and well trained people, that they are armed and they walk together with the local law enforcement and they were trained that in case of fire, the second fire should be ours and not any more of the terrorist. This is what happened yesterday, then the less than 30 seconds the attack was over and the passenger was killed. Realize if, God forbid, no armed people were around, what kind of casualties we could face at this terminal.

LIN: Mr. Yeffet, do you think that other American airlines are woefully under secured? I mean you have or El Al has armed security guards as well as undercover agents at nearly a dozen airports around this country. I don't know of any other airline that operates in the same way that El Al does.

YEFFET: Remember that Israel is the biggest target for the terrorist organizations. Yesterday the attack was not the first attack against El Al. We had had already four attacks of terrorist in Europe, in Rome, Austria, France and Belgium, and we have learned that if we don't have our armed people that can give the answer in few seconds, the tragedy would be horrible.

LIN: Mr. Haidar ...

YEFFET: Now ...

LIN: Let me ask ...

YEFFET: Now ...

LIN: ... Mr. Haidar here. Do you think American security is a joke here at the airports?

HAIDAR: Well, it's not very effective yet. We have to make it more effective. We have to make it more efficient. But then we have to sacrifice so many other things in the process. Mr. Yeffet said that parts of the airport or parts of our airports are public areas. Yes, but this is still an airport. We have to come up with new measures to make sure that the public areas of an airport are also secure.

And then we get into design issue or design issues of airports to make sure that every passenger or non-passenger, well-wisher who enters an airport is entering a secure area. Yes, we have a lot of work ahead of us. Things have not yet been corrected the way we should have corrected them.

LIN: All right, thank you very much Mr. ...

YEFFET: Can you tell me ...

LIN: Go ahead, Mr. Yeffet.

YEFFET: ... can you tell me, sir -- hello.

LIN: Go ahead, Mr. Yeffet.

YEFFET: Can tell me, sir, what we have done since September 11 until today except the fact that beginning of February 17, 2002 the federal government took responsibility of our aviation security? One thing I want to know what we have done to upgrade the level of security in this country since September 11.

LIN: Mr. Yeffet, are you talking about, say, instituting a similar system that was in place at Ben-Gurion Airport not too long ago, a new system that allows computers basically to scan bags, as well as people, before they even have any human contact in the airport -- that the machine should do the jobs that people can't do without risking their lives.

YEFFET: The machines are doing only in this country not at Ben- Gurion Airport. We cannot rely on technology only. We -- the technology can help the human being, but never can replace the human being ...

LIN: So what should be done? What should be done? What should ...

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: ... Americans do?

YEFFET: First of all, we have to change all the system that is wrong in this country and to start build a good level of security.

LIN: But be more specific.

YEFFET: OK. It's impossible, for example, that on last month federal agents could go to 32 airports and place fake explosives and weapons and no security could stop them. If we would have armed under cover security people, law enforcement with uniform, armed people at the curbside, at the terminal, at the check-in, at the security checkpoint, at the gate, aircraft and perimeter of the airport, they wouldn't be able to do it.

Everything is wide open. We have to stop hiring unqualified people. We have to stop training people for a couple of hours and then they become experts. We can -- we have to stop hiring people that minimum they don't graduate from high school. We have to train them week in a classroom and 10 days in the job on training. We have to teach them what are ...

LIN: Yes.

YEFFET: ... the terrorist organizations in this (UNINTELLIGIBLE). LIN: Isaac Yeffet, you are talking about an operation that is going to take months, if not years, and even then, it may not have stopped the shooting from yesterday. Isaac Yeffet, I know that you have to run. Thank you very much for being with us today.

YEFFET: Thank you.

LIN: So now we have to ask ourselves, how much security is too much security? We want to hear from you. So please call us at 1-800- 310-4CNN or e-mail talkback@cnn.com. We're going to be hearing from all you guys right here in the audience, too, so stay right there.

Still ahead, more on recognizing terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not a Mafia thing and it's not about an Armenian (ph) guy that lost his job. This is a terrorist attack, OK? He did (UNINTELLIGIBLE) back at home (UNINTELLIGIBLE) back over here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And then later, behind closed doors. What's behind the cover-up of the president's daughter?

Stick around. There's lots to talk about on TALKBACK LIVE "free- for-all" Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. We're talking about airport security in the wake of yesterday's shooting at LAX. I cannot ignore what this man Keith from Georgia is telling me now in terms of doing more to make this country more secure. What are you really saying here?

KEITH: I'm saying what we need to do instead of just talking about security and taking away the rights of Americans, what we need to do is we know about where these people are.

LIN: These people?

KEITH: OK, we're talking about these Muslims, these people that are talking a part of this jihad and we need to ferret out. We know about some of these people. We need to find first what the cells are and expand out from there. Some of the things we need to do is we need to start getting people, Americans oriented into this type of fighting to get these people to the point what we can recognize long before this stuff -- you cannot stop a man that is determined to kill himself, to kill others.

LIN: A man determined to kill himself. Well by coincidence, Jalal Haidar, who is in charge of airport security at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, once the busiest airport in the nation, happens to be an Arab-American. When you hear someone say these people, we know they have declared jihad. They have declared war on the United States. HAIDAR: Keith, I'm glad that you raise the question or you raised your thoughts. Not every Arab is a terrorist. We live in a great nation. We're all equal under the flag of the United States. Our founding fathers, the founding fathers of our constitution did not say Arab, oriental, African-American or Anglo.

But you're right. Besides what Ms. Lin said, I also happen to chair the World's Community New Team of Aviation Security Experts (ph) to address acts of terrorism. I as an Arab American and I'm proud of my heritage. When I see Jewish blood being shed, it hurts me. It pains me.

It aches me as much as anything else. So please, I urge you to believe that your fellow Arab Americans, Muslim Americans are as patriotic to this country as you and I are. I could have paid my life twice during my career protecting American passengers and citizens outside of this country. So again I respect what happen you said, but please don't generalize and do not -- generalization is not good.

This stereotypical thinking of Arab Americans is not healthy. You have Arab Americans within the law enforcement community, on a federal, local, state levels, within the intelligence community, within our federal government. We have Arab Americans in our Cabinet in Washington, DC. We have legislatures who are Arab Americans. We love this country. We're the kids and the sons (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this country.

LIN: Passionate words. Keith, I want to thank you. Go ahead and respond. I want to show the audience an e-mail. We're already getting e-mails coming in on this subject. Keith, thanks. You know what? You're speaking your heart. You're speaking your mind and you're saying what is on people's minds, what they're afraid to say ...

KEITH: Well, I'm not saying -- not saying all Arabs. I'm saying that's where we should really focus. I'm not saying that there isn't Americans that are born in this country that are not Arabs, that also share the same beliefs, the same focus as the jihad. There has been. But what I'm saying is we need to start focusing more among the Arab community, is what I'm saying.

LIN: All right, we've got a comment here from Jessica ...

HAIDAR: Thank you, Keith.

LIN: ...from Georgia -- Jessica.

JESSICA: Thanks. I was absolutely elated yesterday when President Bush in his speech in West Virginia went on not only to thank those folks who are not yet American citizens for fighting on our behalf, but then spoke to us about his, the order that he sent down that they can apply for citizenship earlier than the normal strung-out process. And I think that he was very much trying to express what you were expressing, sir, and that is that we can't have the bigotry. We can't have the naivete. We need to open our arms. This is a melting pot. Let's try to go back to the beginning of why this country was founded.

LIN: All right, let me read that e-mail out loud to you in case you missed it, if we can call it up on the screen there. "Let's stop being naive. In today's definition it isn't terrorism unless an Arab commits it. For everyone else it's a gun battle, unfortunate incident or some other more polite term". Louise in Indiana, thank you very much for your thoughts here.

Anybody else? We've got -- Chris, you've got somebody over there.

CHRIS: Yes, this is Elizabeth. Elizabeth, go ahead.

ELIZABETH: Yes, as a former officer in the Air Force Reserves activated for Desert Storm during the last conflict with Arabs, I understand what the man is saying, and it wasn't fair of you to jump on him to act in your politically correct manner, that he was painting the brush that all Arab-Americans are terrorists. He never once said that.

But every single one of the people, and I'm from the northeast part of the country, not far from New York. I've been to ground zero. Every single one of the people that killed the 3,000 innocent people in those two towers and in my state, Pennsylvania, the plane went down also were Arab. So there's an absolutely genuine fear ...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about Oklahoma City? What about Oklahoma City? That was from inside the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Jalal Haidar, you get the last word here. I've got 10 seconds.

HAIDAR: I appreciate what you said. When I went down to ground zero I was crying for a couple days. The first time I drove into New York going to JFK Airport for business, I drive on the Verrazano (ph) Bridge, I saw -- I was crying like kids. You're right. I absolutely agree with you, all the 19 hijackers.

However, there are 144 million Arabs around the world and the vast majority of Arabs including me as an Arab American, and I'm very proud of my American nationality. We not only condemn, but we abhor and not just recent, we're fighting terrorism as well.

So please keep that in mind, and we're as proud fighters as you are and everybody else. But I, what Keith said, I understand what Keith said. Keith said something out of what he knows, what he hears. He should read more.

LIN: Thank you very much, Jalal Haidar, for joining us today and for all of your really candid remarks. We started talking about airport security, I think we ended up talking about something a little bit deeper. When we come back, our "free-for-all" panel talks about airport security and the passing of baseball legend Ted Williams and the sister act at Wimbledon. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE "Free-For-All Friday."

Let's meet our hot panel. I don't think anything is hotter than our audience today, but we'll give it a trial.

(CHEERING)

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: All right, Julianne Malveaux is an economist and a syndicated columnist appearing in "The San Francisco Chronicle" and "USA Today." Tom Marr is a radio talk show host on WCBM in Maryland. And Paul McGuire is the host of the syndicated "Paul McGuire Show" for Crawford Broadcasting. And, Lionel -- that's how we know him, Lionel -- is an attorney and a syndicated talk show host in New York.

Hi, guys. Welcome.

(CROSSTALK)

JULIANNE MALVEAUX, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good to be here.

LIN: Good to see you. You got to keep up with our audience today, I'm telling you. They got a lot to talk about.

MALVEAUX: They are hot, yes.

LIONEL, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Especially that guy in the audience who gave that tremendous statement about -- what was that again? I want a transcript of that later.

LIN: Yes, just about who should be targeted in terms of -- there's Keith -- who should be targeted in terms of investigating for possible terrorist acts.

We have been talking about airport security. We sort of digressed in the last block about Muslims and their sort of -- whether they are being unfairly profiled in these investigations.

But let's talk a little bit...

TOM MARR, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: They are not being profiled. That's the problem.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: Yes, they are being profiled.

MARR: They are not.

MALVEAUX: Yes, they are. Not only are they being profiled, but other people of color are being profiled.

Tom, behave yourself. We promised to do that.

But you know what? The first description we had of the person was that he was of Middle Eastern or Latino features. Give me a break. With 15 percent of the American country being Latino, you cannot run around doing that. It's ridiculous.

MARR: If you can get a word in here -- and I hope we all can and Julianne doesn't dominate.

MALVEAUX: Well, see, you're defensive, dear.

MARR: Yes, of course, when I'm dealing with you.

The FBI is lying to the American people today. This was a terrorist incident committed by a foreign national against the people of Israel and the people of the United States of America on July Fourth. And, for the FBI to try to sneak behind the hate-crime statute instead of calling terror terror is an absolute disgrace. The war on terror is not on terror. It's on militant Islam. And the sooner we face it, the better off we'll all be.

LIONEL: By the way, may I add something?

We have to get down to business here. First of all, I don't know what terror is. I know what terror is. No. 2, if a person decides to go

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: We are not in polite company today.

(LAUGHTER)

LIONEL: If somebody goes in and pulls out a gun and shoots somebody, one person, that's called murder or it's called a hate crime or it's called terrorism. We are talking about unlawful detainees. We're talking about enemy combatants. This is a war of the lexicon of the dictionary.

Look, a mass murderer is not necessarily a terrorist. All day long on all the media, and including today: "Is it terror? Is it not? Israel says it is." The bottom line is, there was a nut who went in and shot somebody because apparently they were Israeli. Is that terror or a hate crime? Who cares?

PAUL MCGUIRE, HOST, "PAUL MCGUIRE SHOW": You couldn't be completely wrong about that.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Panel, I am going to shut your microphones off if you don't behave yourselves.

(LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE)

LIN: Hold that thought.

We are going to hear from David from Nebraska, if it's the last thing I do today -- David.

DAVID: I don't know if it was an act of an organized terrorist attack, but I think maybe it was done to invoke fear, especially on the Independence Day holiday that we had. It might have been done to invoke fear and show that we are still vulnerable, especially doing it at an El Al ticket counter. That's a very -- they're a very secure airline.

That might have been showing, "Hey, look what can be done." It might have been an individual. I believe it was probably an individual act on his behalf, but it did invoke fear. Look what happened. People...

LIN: Look how we are talking today. It's like the enemy is within.

MALVEAUX: Can I ask you a question?

LIN: Go ahead, Julianne.

MALVEAUX: If I could just you a question, because I hear this word terrorism bandied about. And I want us to go back in U.S. history. Do you think that lynching was terrorism? Do you think that forced segregation was terrorism? Why has the United States never

(CROSSTALK)

LIONEL: What does that have to do with this? Oh, pulling the race card. Oh, my God.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: It has a lot to do with this. It has to do with the way that someone said the war of the dictionary of words. You call it terrorism when it's convenient. But when you oppress a people, you didn't call it anything. Give me a break.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRE: Look, the bottom line here is that the person who did the murder in the Los Angeles Airport obviously chose July Fourth. He obviously chose an Israeli airline. Whether he was linked or not to an organized terrorist group is irrelevant. He had an ideological link. He hated Jews. He was for terrorism. He is a terrorist.

LIN: Says who? Says who?

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: We don't know if it is a hate crime. We don't know if it's an act of terror.

Susan from Texas on the telephone, can you jump in here?

CALLER: Yes, can you hear me?

LIN: Give it a try, Susan.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLER: Can you hear me over your panel?

LIN: Go for it, Susan.

CALLER: OK. Hi.

I just wanted to add something. This was a tragedy to me in two ways. I'm an American, but I'm a Jewish-American. And, first, an attack that I deliberately think was done on El Al, because this was the ticket counter at the very end. Whether this man was involved with a jihad group, whether he acted alone, he's a terrorist.

MCGUIRE: Absolutely.

CALLER: And this type of thing has to be stopped.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRE: You are 100 percent correct. It was a terrorist act.

LIONEL: Who cares whether it's a terrorist attack? Who cares?

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: I am hearing from people who condoned Birmingham, but now it's terrorism. Use the word uniformly.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRE: I hate to give you a wakeup call, but this is not about Birmingham. This is not about the civil rights movement.

LIN: Susan?

CALLER: Carol, am I still on the line.

LIN: You're still on the line, Susan.

CALLER: I would like to say something, please.

No matter what color this man's skin was, what nationality, that doesn't matter to me. But anyone who goes in and opens fire on innocent people is a terrorist.

MCGUIRE: Absolutely.

LIN: That we can agree on. (CROSSTALK)

LIN: Thank you, Susan. Thank you, Susan, from Texas.

CALLER: Thank you.

LIN: All right, Gene right here in the studio.

GENE: Yes, I would just like to comment. First of all, I served in the Marine Corps before Desert Strom. And I also worked on 9/11 from New Jersey.

(APPLAUSE)

GENE: When the communications broke down in New York City, we took over. And that was definitely terror. Murder -- there's a fine line at times between murder and terror. I think that's why this argument is so great.

I'll just say briefly that murderers can kill several people. Terrorists can kill one or two. So, I believe this gentleman -- and I'm using that term loosely -- was definitely a murderer, not a terrorist. I don't think it was geared to any particular one group. It was an employee. It was a passenger.

MCGUIRE: Well, if he wasn't geared to one particular one group, why did he choose Israeli airlines, a Jewish airline?

GENE: Well, he was at least 20 feet from that counter, sir. So, you can gauge that any way you like.

(CROSSTALK)

GENE: That's your opinion. God bless you.

LIN: Thank you, Gene.

MCGUIRE: It was an attack on Jews. It was an anti-Semitic act. It was an act of terrorism.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: He was a murderer. He was not necessarily a terrorist. Check that word terror and use it uniformly. Use it uniformly. I have never heard you, Tom Marr, use the word terror -- I have never heard you use the word terror when you look at America's history and its past. I hear you using it all of the sudden and suddenly. Let's be consistent.

MARR: Julianne, if you'll be quiet, you can hear me. Now, listen to me.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: Wait a minute, now. Down, boy. Don't tell folks to be quiet when you are running your mouth.

MCGUIRE: He's not a dog. Don't tell him, "Down, boy." He's not a dog. Wake up.

MALVEAUX: Well, he's behaving like one.

MARR: If you can shut up for 30 seconds...

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Julianne and Tom, do you have a personal history you want to share with us here?

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: Lionel, you are not getting out of this, Lionel. You put that newspaper down. You are part of this panel whether you want to or not.

LIONEL: By the way, learn some control. This is a circle-jerk. This the biggest waste of our time.

(LAUGHTER)

MCGUIRE: It may be a circle-jerk for you, because you may have had a problem with that in childhood. This is a political act of terrorism.

LIN: Oh, my.

MARR: Paul, if I may add this, just once without being interrupted by Julianne, when people were lynched...

MALVEAUX: Tom interrupts, too. So, you know what? Let's not let me be the designated interrupter. I'm not going to take that.

MARR: Just be quiet.

MALVEAUX: Just you be quiet.

MALVEAUX: I'm not going to take that either, sir. Why don't you try to be civil? If you be civil, I'll be quiet.

MARR: Oh, sure.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: You know what? You guys need to settle.

Go ahead, Tom.

MARR: When people were lynched in this country, when they were lynched in this country, that was a terrorist act. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. And he's exactly where he belongs, in a grave. And we have to get the Islamic terrorists that are trying to do us in and kill them too.

MCGUIRE: And not fight a politically-correct war and pretend this is simply an act of murder. It's an act of terrorism.

MARR: You got it.

LIN: All right, panel, hold that thought. We have got to bring in some money for the company here.

And, Daniel on the telephone, we are going to get to you right after this quick break. It is hot today, July 5 in Atlanta, Georgia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. It's "Free-For-All Friday." And that means the badly-behaved are speaking out today.

We are joined by a very distinguished panel, though: Julianne Malveaux, a syndicated columnist, as well as Tom Marr, radio show talk host, Paul McGuire, "The Paul McGuire Show," and Lionel, who stopped reading his newspaper and decided to join us after all.

LIONEL: I can start again.

LIN: Yes, I know. You are not making any promises.

We want to hear from Daniel, who has been very patiently waiting on the telephone -- Daniel.

CALLER: Yes.

In the last few months, we have had shootings in factories, grocery stores, restaurants, banks and everything else. Aren't we overreacting to this simply because it was an Arab man at an airport? Last month, there was a shooting at an airport in New Orleans and no one is screaming terrorism for that.

MCGUIRE: How we can be overreacting when the FBI issued a terrorist alert for July Fourth? We had intelligence, FBI, all over the United States of America. This wasn't a random act of violence. This was a terrorist act.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLER: Even if this was a terrorist act, it was an isolated act.

LIONEL: They've been issuing reports since Memorial -- they do it every week. What are we now? What is our Department of Homeland Security color today, beige, periwinkle?

MCGUIRE: Yellow.

LIONEL: Are you kidding? There are warnings every week.

MALVEAUX: Every day. LIONEL: I am getting warned to death. We are overreacting. And the people that make it worse are people like you in the media, because you know why? It's a slow news day.

I saw six hours of a guy on a highway today who was in a car with some flammable liquid.

LIN: It is not a slow news day.

LIONEL: You people report everything. You want to scare us.

MCGUIRE: Tell that to the families of the people who died at the World Trade Center that it was a bad media day. Tell it to them.

LIN: It's not a slow news day.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Calvin from Jamaica right here in the studio -- Calvin.

CALVIN: That was exactly my point. They are still dead. And it doesn't matter whether it's terrorists or not. Who cares? They are still dead.

LIONEL: Exactly.

MCGUIRE: It does matter whether it was terrorists or not. Let me tell you something. We are in a war against terrorism.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: We should not call everything terrorism.

MARR: We don't. We don't.

MALVEAUX: Yes, we do. When we have one person at one ticket counter

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Oh, we lost Lionel again.

MALVEAUX: We have terrorism all the time. And we have murder all the time. And there's crazy people out there.

(CROSSTALK)

MARR: There's one right next to me right now.

MALVEAUX: We've talked this stuff up to the point that we will call anything terrorism and we are not using our analytic skills or rationality.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRE: I'm glad you're not in charge of the homeland security, Julianne.

MARR: All you're calling terrorism today is lynchings. And you are right. But you refuse to call the terrorist incident of yesterday exactly what it was.

MALVEAUX: I don't see it that way.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: What difference does it make what you call it?

Mamie (ph) from Georgia. Mamie from Georgia.

LIONEL: Let's all say it. It's terror. Please.

(CROSSTALK)

MAMIE: Panel, I'm talking to you. I have one thing to say.

I think you need to stop cackling about what is a terrorist attack and concentrate more on what we can do to stop this from happening in the United States, No. 1, OK?

(APPLAUSE)

MAMIE: No. 2, No. 2 -- I'm not finished yet. No. 2, I think that we need to concentrate also at the security at our airports. They are so hateful at the airport -- excuse me -- I'm not going to put any names out, OK? But I don't want to be bothered. So, if something happened at the airport and I saw it, security is so mean, they are so demoralizing, I don't want to have a part of them.

So, I can prevent something. But due to the fact that they are so mean, I may not say anything. I may keep on walking. So, they need to work with me.

LIONEL: They're mean and demoralizing you?

MAMIE: Excuse me. I'm not finished yet.

(CHEERING)

LIONEL: Well, you should be.

MALVEAUX: You go, girl. You go, girl.

MAMIE: I think that they need to treat us with more respect. That's what I'm saying, bottom line.

LIONEL: What did they do?

MARR: The lady is 100 percent right.

LIONEL: What did they do? How did they demoralize you?

MARR: Well, let me tell you what they are doing. They are letting Abdul get on the plane, but they're taking American citizens in their 80s

(CROSSTALK)

MARR: Time out. They are taking people in wheelchairs, fine ladies in their 80s, and little children and they are wanding them and searching them, while Mohammed gets to walk on the plane.

LIONEL: You are profiling. You are profiling.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: The security people, as the lady says, are mean. They are disrespectful. They pat you down. They are just rude. And, basically, they do not engender cooperation.

MCGUIRE: Would you rather have them buy you ice cream sundaes?

MALVEAUX: No, I don't want them to buy me ice cream. What I want them to do is to make it clear that security purposes are connected to prevention. I do not need to be patted down five times between the security gate and the plane. I do not need a wand thrust between my legs, quite frankly, which has happened. And it happens to too many people.

(CROSSTALK)

LIONEL: Can I say something?

LIN: Lionel, real quick and then we've got to get to somebody on the telephone.

LIONEL: Look at me. I look like a baggage handler for Air Morocco. They stop me all the time. And you know what? They should. Because there's a greater chance of somebody who will do something bad in the future who looks like me and not like some 80-year-old woman in a wheelchair. I know al Qaeda are clever, but they are not going to enlist or recruit Aunt Bee for a shoe bomb.

MALVEAUX: You look like a baggage handler. I don't, OK?

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Jeanne on the telephone, can you cut in here?

(CROSSTALK)

CALLER: Hello, hello, hello, hello to everyone.

LIN: Jeanne on the telephone, yes.

CALLER: We are very concerned, too. We are saying -- I'm from New York City. And I'm saying to everybody, we need to raise the level of our antenna. That person that went to the airport went with intent. Nobody goes to the airport to take a plane on this heightened alert in the USA with guns and knives just for fun. No one does that. And when somebody perpetrates from the beginning to go and do something like that, we need to take a look. Israel has been able to identify this problem, because they deal with it in their country. They know what terrorism is. They label it, identify it. And they move forward.

LIONEL: They profile.

CALLER: We are standing in the gap looking like we don't know what this is all about, candy-coating the situation, calling it what it is not, taking eight hours to give us basic news that Israel could have given us in one half-hour.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: But, Jeanne, Israel is a homogeneous society. Israel is not a multicultural society.

CALLER: Israel is not the panacea.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLER: There's five of us talking. We cannot all talk.

LIN: We are not hearing anybody right now. I am going to cut you off because we want to hear from...

CALLER: There's five people talking. I'm from New York City. They need to...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a 21-year retired security officer for the government. I think, eventually, we will have a bureau. Everyone knows when they are going to go someplace on an airplane. They can go and request that. They can be investigated, given a pass. And you will have no more of this airport delay, because you will get your pass ahead of time.

LIN: Deep security background, which is exactly what Israel does for its most frequent flyers.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: All right, Julianne.

MALVEAUX: People can pass those things around.

I think that, you know, all of us are prepared to take on more inconvenience in exchange for security. But I think you have to connect the security to the prevention. And if someone can come in with guns, but at the same time -- as I think someone said -- little old ladies are being profiled, you have a problem. The issue is making the connection. That hasn't been done.

LIN: Julianne, thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK) LIN: Hold that thought.

TALKBACK LIVE will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We are going to bring this audience back over and over and over again. You guys have been so great.

Listen, we are going to switch topics here. We are done with airport security. Enough.

Welcome back.

(APPLAUSE)

LIN: We are going to talk about the Williams sisters, Serena and Venus. Could there be any other contenders for tomorrow's Wimbledon crown? The tennis wonder women, ranked one and two in the world, are simply the best. But some observers say, if it comes down to sibling rivalry on the court, well, fans in the stands could be bored to death.

Oh, our audience is so upset about this.

All right, let me talk to Elizabeth from Pennsylvania.

Elizabeth, you are a tennis fan. And you were talking about how maybe you are not really looking forward to this.

ELIZABETH: I follow Wimbledon. I play tennis. I have been to the French Open, the U.S. Open, pro tennis.

And I'll repeat, people that know that our actual tennis pros, the commentators, what they are saying is, because they are siblings, although they want to win, they don't want to beat their sister. So, it's not an aggressive game. It's boring. But the people here, I don't know if they follow tennis, but that's what they are saying. That's what the pros are saying.

LIN: Chris has somebody across the way.

CHRIS: It's Mike. Go ahead.

MIKE: We are looking at two top professionals in their sport. And they're outstanding. They are not only knowledgeable and have a great work ethic, but, hey, look at what they have done. Just because their last names are Williams, we are not going to penalize them. They are at the top of their sport. And look at them. They are bigger. They are stronger. They are faster. And the bottom line is, hey, let them play.

And for that other lady that got beat 6-2, 6-1 by Serena -- I think her name is Mauresmo -- she needs to get in the weight room.

(APPLAUSE) (CROSSTALK)

LIN: Hang on.

Stacy from Georgia here has got something to say -- Stacy.

STACY: I grew up watching Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova. And nobody ever complained about their great rivalry, because you know what I think it is? Because they are white. And tennis is all white. And they don't want to see Venus and Serena up on this. And I know that sounds prejudice, but I am from -- you know? And I think the reason they are doing this is that Venus and Serena, they are not the same people.

They fight. I mean, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova, they were fighting competitors. And every time you just about knew it was going to be them. But they weren't the same family, but they weren't challenging the order either.

LIN: Lionel, what do you think?

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Julianne, I asked Lionel. Lionel is deep in thought. And I want to get his feedback.

LIONEL: I would rather drink bleach than watch women's tennis.

(LAUGHTER)

LIONEL: Well, at least this time, I can watch it because it's two sisters. And I do agree. There is a racial component. Does anybody mind the fact that Tiger Woods has completely dominated golf? No. They have done it before. There was Martina. There was Chris Evert. There was Billie Jean King. All of a sudden, these two great girls finally break this color barrier in this all-white sport and now we are bitching and complaining about the fact that they are too good. Give them a break.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Ashton is 9 years old. She is the future.

Hang on.

Ashton from Florida.

ASHTON: I think that people in tennis are really good. They are great athletes. In the papers and on TV and stuff like that, they say that women's tennis is boring. But it's not.

LIN: There you go, Ashton from Florida. Great way to end the show.

Thanks to our panel. Julianne Malveaux, Tom Marr, Paul McGuire, Lionel, thanks so much. You all have a great weekend. MCGUIRE: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: Thanks for keeping it hot for us.

MALVEAUX: You, too. Thank you.

LIN: I'm Carol Lin, filling in for Arthel Neville.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





 
 
 
 


 Search   

Back to the top