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CNN TALKBACK LIVE

How Should Children be Tried in Texas?; Was Accutane Responsible For a Child's Suicide?; How Long Will Lottery Millionaires Hang On to the Money?

Aired April 17, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello everyone and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. There's a tragic story developing about 20 miles northwest of Dallas, in Lewisville, Texas. That's where police say two children, ages 15 and 10, have confessed to killing their 6- year-old brother. Here's a picture of him. His name is Jackson Carr. Police say his 10-year-old brother held him face down while his sister stabbed him in the neck. Jackson was found buried in shallow grave near his home.

It's very hard to comprehend, and the horror of it is wondering why those children would do something so heinous. We'll talk about kids who kill, and I want to hear from you about this, so call me at 1-800-310-4cnn, or e-mail talkback@cnn.com. Now take a look what we have planned today.

Did a popular acne treatment cause Charles Bishop to fly a building into a plane in Tampa, Florida? His mother is suing the drug company claiming it did, but did she ignore strong warnings about Accutane?

Also what could cause two children to kill their 6-year-old brother?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They went about 100 yards out into the yard, and she pointed to a shallow grave which was about two feet under the mud and debris, and said, that is where I buried my brother, I killed him earlier.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: There is more to the tragedy than meets the eye.

And all eyes are on today's big game Lottery winners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's also her first time playing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First time I ever played.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: But will she still be rich in ten years? Find out why so many Lottery millionaires go broke. Are you sure it would not happen to you?

We're going to start with the Texas children, now in police custody after allegedly confessing to killing their brother. The 6- year-old's body was found buried in a creek bed behind their home. His parents reported him missing Monday night after he disappeared during a game of hide and seek. Police still haven't said why the children did it. A detention hearing was held his morning. And on the phone now with us is Domingo Ramirez, the police reporter with the "Fort Worth Star Telegram". Domingo, welcome.

DOMINGO RAMIREZ, "FORT WORTH STAR TELEGRAM": How are you doing?

NEVILLE: Hi. Have you spoken to the parents, are they talking to reporters, are they staying quiet? What about neighbors? Is anybody talking?

RAMIREZ: No they came out of the courtroom this morning and refused to answer any questions. They looked very distraught and they have not made any comment about the case.

NEVILLE: What about the mood of the neighborhood?

RAMIREZ: They seem to be very concerned about the children. They seemed to have thought that the 6-year-old was as running around and the others, the older ones, were also...

NEVILLE: Pardon me for a second because I have to go to my colleague Kyra Phillips in the newsroom with breaking news -- Kyra.

(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. We are talking about the horrific story in Lewisville, Texas, outside of Dallas where a 10 and 15-year-old brother and sister are allegedly, the are accused of murdering their 6-year-old brother, and joining us on the phone Domingo Ramirez the police reporter with the "Fort Worth Star Telegram." Domingo, are you still there?

RAMIREZ: Yes, Arthel.

NEVILLE: I would like you again to give me an idea; when is the last time you were in the neighborhood and the mood of the neighbors and if you have seen the parents at all from afar?

RAMIREZ: I saw the parents this morning at the courthouse. There was a detention hearing for the juveniles, and they seemed very distraught. They refused to answer any questions of the case. The neighbors were very concerned about the welfare of the children before Monday night.

NEVILLE: Why is that? RAMIREZ: They've told us that the 6-year-old was seen unsupervised on several occasions and they, the neighbors told us about some behavioral problems that the older children had had.

NEVILLE: We understand that child protective services had been called to the house before. Can you tell us anything about that?

RAMIREZ: Apparently there were three complaints involving physical abuse, but none of it was substantiated at all.

NEVILLE: I have a question from an audience member here. Go ahead, sir, what is your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to know background of the parents because usually when kids are troubled kids, the parents are doing some things that are not called for, and the kids' behavior is affected.

NEVILLE: Domingo?

RAMIREZ: We are looking into the background at this particular time. The quick research we did yesterday, we had not found any arrests involving abuse or anything like that, but again today, we are looking into their background much. They lived at various locations in Texas and Virginia.

NEVILLE: Domingo Ramirez, thank you very much for the update. And thank you for joining us here on TALKBACK LIVE. We have to take a break right now. Can either of those children be tried as an adult? We will ask the a attorneys, right after this. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back. We're talking about the children in Texas who police say, admit killing their little brother. Joining us now is attorney Geoffrey Fieger. He has represented the family of a slain Columbine student, as well as an 11-year-old convicted of second-degree murder.

Also with us is former Texas judge and host of Court TV's Catherine Crier Live, Catherine Crier. Welcome to both of you.

CATHERINE CRIER, HOST, "CATHERINE CRIER LIVE": Hi, Arthel.

NEVILLE: Catherine, I'll begin with you. Can these siblings be tried as adults?

CRIER: Under the law the older child, the 15-year-old certainly could be certified as an adult. Any child as young as 13 in the state can be certified and they look, obviously at the kind of crime, the circumstances surrounding the child, and they make that determination.

It is unfortunate that more states do not have a program that a few have exercised, called dual jurisdiction, where a child can be tried as a juvenile, but if in fact they are truly dangerous or show no rehabilitation they can then be held after the age of 18. But they are not treated up front as adults.

NEVILLE: Based on your experience in the Texas legal system, what do you think will happen in this case?

CRIER: This is an ugly, ugly case. It is the sort of circumstance that if you support certifying any juvenile, then this is the kind of case, and the child is old enough to certify, but I, I object to that simply because there is a chance, in a case like this you hate to say that, but there is a chance to rehabilitate, that chance is better in a juvenile setting rather than a adult prison.

NEVILLE: Before you go, jump in there, Jeffery. Stand up for me, Jennifer, you were shaking your head, you are agreeing with Ms. Crier.

One second, Geoff, I have an audience member.

JENNIFER: I think partially because of all the western countries, western world countries, there are so few, only two in the world that will perhaps...

NEVILLE: You're talking about rehabilitation, right?

JENNIFER: ... would consider trying a child as an adult.

NEVILLE: Is that OK in your mind?

JENNIFER: Oh no, I think there is definitely a chance of rehabilitation, especially of a 15-year-old.

NEVILLE: Geoffrey, what are your thoughts on that?

GEOFFREY FIEGER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Unfortunately, the focus across the country, touted by politicians who really lack knowledge, is to try younger and younger people as adults, in Michigan, in Florida, any age can be tried as an adult. And your audience member is absolutely correct.

We are alone in the western civilized world in trying children just because the rest of the civilized world recognizes that children are able to be rehabilitated. But there is a bigger issue here, focusing on how to punish thee children or what to do with them; you indicated earlier there had been at least four instances of protective services investigating potential child abuse at that home.

Usually these acts are not isolated. They are the result of neglect or abuse. There had been previous contacts with the law. These children had attempted to burn down apparently their school. What has happened in the social fabric is that now we are putting the money into prisons and prosecuting children instead of interdiction and treatment which would have perhaps prevented this tragedy as well as the Andrea Yates tragedy in Texas.

CRIER: That's a great comparison, Geoffrey, because I was thinking of the insanity issue, insanity should be a valid defense in this country, but because jurors, because the public fears opening the courthouse door and letting murderers walk the street based on a not guilty but insane, when does not occur, they go straight into a basically a lock-down facility, and they are not getting out the door.

It is the same thing with the juveniles. If we had a system, where people were not afraid at age 18, this child 3 years, away, would walk out the door, then I think that people would be more amenable to treating them as juveniles. But there is some continuing jurisdiction.

FIEGER: Actually, Catherine, there is another issue, too, and I think you are alluding to this. In the juvenile system, this recidivism rate is much lower. In other words, treating them as adults and putting them in prison, you are assuming recidivism. At some point they will get out and the likelihood is they will commit the crime again. Whereas in the juvenile system, which focuses on treatment and rehabilitation, the chances of producing a child who can address civilization is much greater.

NEVILLE: OK, let me get in here and let our phone callers speak out. Caller, go ahead you are on the air -- Michelle.

CALLER: Hi, yes, I want to make a comment on what they said about child protective service?

NEVILLE: Speak up for us, Michelle.

CALLER: Sorry. I wanted to comment on the child protective services. There is a need for more people and funds to go into child protective services. Currently the way the process goes, it takes far too long for anything to be done. There to be many, many complaints, and miles of documentation done before anybody will go in and take charge and remove children or order counseling for them.

FIEGER: Let me indicate to you why that is. Because in most of the states because of this new social engineering standard, most of the money is being taken out of protective services and treatment and putting into prisons and corrections and that is why the money is not there.

CRIER: Not only that, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) story in New York several years ago, I covered that, and this was the little child who had really fallen through the cracks, and you found out that the child protective services, the welfare offices, like so many other government agencies, were being judged on how many cases they closed, how many files they put away, rather than how much help they were giving people.

You get those workers with 80-90 cases a piece, this isn't necessarily picking on them, they can no more spend time analyze families and really give the service they are supposed to give, and what they are doing is just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) those files.

NEVILLE: Let me just get back to this case, and ask you, is there any way possible that the parents in this case will face any kind of charges of neglect or negligence? FIEGER: I doubt it, although I would indicate to you again, that if you really look for the genesis of the problem in this family you are going to find it in the family, not without the family.

NEVILLE: Catherine, your thoughts on that?

CRIER: It's the kind of situation as with Russell Yates, where you might conjure something that fits the penal code, but the likelihood of them being charged with anything is slim and none, but Geoffrey is absolutely right. This girl was supposed to go to psychotherapy in 1998 at the time of the elementary school arson, she obviously was displaying the behavior patterns then and should have been in serious treatment.

NEVILLE: OK, you have a point or comment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was wondering, I do not know if the lawyers will know this or not, but if the children have undergone psychological evaluation yet.

FIEGER: No, not yet, in the system they wouldn't have received it yet, and in fact as Catherine was indicating, in 1998 one of the children was accused of setting a fire in her elementary school. Psychotherapy was advised and it is apparent that she did not receive it.

NEVILLE: I have another comment, excuse me, Lou, from Indiana, stand up and speak up.

LOU: I just had a comment about the fact that they said there were like four or three calls to the house. It sounded like there was a pattern that the children social services did not have strict enough laws, or something, or this might have been prevented. If she had already lit a fire at an elementary school, what more were we looking for? This was the actual next step to take.

CRIER: Absolutely. And Arthel when you look at -- he is so right --when you look at the history of very violent people; we look at John Gacey, Jeffrey Dahmer, we begin to see if it is lighting fires, cruelty to animals and all sorts of very specific behavior that is tending to lead to sociopathic behavior, which was demonstrated in these two children. So she was giving out the signals and people were not listening.

NEVILLE: Catherine Crier, Geoffrey Fieger, thank you for joining us here on TALKBACK LIVE today.

Remember 15-year-old Charles Bishop, who killed himself by crashing a plane into a Tampa office building? Find out why his mother says a popular acne drug may be to blame, when we come back. But first we are going to go back to Kyra Phillips in the newsroom with an update on a story reported to you earlier -- Kyra.

(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NEVILLE: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. Remember these pictures? Last January, 15-year-old Charles Bishop committed suicide by flying a single-engine plane into the bank of America Plaza building in Tampa, Florida.

He left behind a note saying he supported Osama bin Laden and the September 11 attacks. But his mother, Julie Bishop, says an acne drug, not his political beliefs drove Charles to suicide. She's suing Hoffman La Roche Incorporated, the makers of Accutane.

Mrs. Bishop claims the drug manufacturer failed to emphasize a possible link between the acne medication and depression and suicide. We have Mrs. Bishop's attorney, Mike Ryan, with us today. Welcome, Mr. Ryan.

MIKE RYAN, ATTORNEY: Thank you for having me.

NEVILLE: Why are you suing the makers of Accutane?

RYAN: We are suing them because this is a frightening case. And it is happening all over America. What we are seeing is that children on this drug are committing spontaneous acts of suicide and psychotic behavior. they are telling parents that depression, psychosis and suicide are a possibility, but there is no way to warn against it, and there is no way to stop it.

NEVILLE: Do you feel that strongly enough obviously to file a lawsuit, but before I talk with you a little bit more, Mr. Ryan, I want to bring someone in this conversation now.

On the phone with us is Dr. Pat Wexler. She is a board-certified dermatologist who has practicing for 18 years. Dr. Wexler, thank you for being with us here on TALKBACK LIVE.

DR. PAT WEXLER: Thank you for having me.

NEVILLE: Do you think that the warning signs that are placed or the warnings that are placed in the packages of Accutane are sufficient?

WEXLER: Hoffman La Roche has been a company which has been most diligent in warning patients against all potential side affects of Accutane. And I feel that they have done everything possible to inform patients. I think it is up to patients and their families to comply, and follow instructions with medications.

And in this case, I am not sure there is even a direct correlation between the Accutane and the act that occurred.

NEVILLE: You know, we invited representatives from Hoffman La Roche to join us today. They declined, but they did send us a statement which I would like to read to you at this time.

It says, "Both Roche and independent researchers who are experts in the study of retinoids (ph) and suicidology (ph) , psychology, epidemiology, and dermatology have conducted retrospective studies exploring the potential link between Accutane and psychological events over the past several years.

To date there has been no scientific evidence of an association between Accutane and depression and suicide. Now despite the belief of outside experts and Roche, that there is no link between Accutane and the very rare reports of suicide, we have worked collaboratively with the Food and Drug Administration to communicate the risks of depression, suicide ideation, and suicide through extensive professional and patient literature along with an informed consent for to be signed by Accutane patients."

Mr. Ryan, how difficult will it be to prove that in fact Accutane led the 17-year-old boy to commit suicide?

RYAN: First and foremost, Charles Bishop was an honor student...

NEVILLE: Fifteen -- pardon me.

RYAN: He was 15 years old, he was an honor student in his high school. He was not like the troubled kids we were just talking about a few minutes ago, no issues of cruelty to animals or violence.

Instead what his teachers and friends said was that this was a kind, compassionate child who had hopes for the future, who dreamed of going to the Air Force Academy, and I must dispute Dr. Wexler's assessment that Hoffman La Roche has been cooperative. In fact the French authorities forced Hoffman La Roche to change its warnings back in the early '90s. Then, and only then, did the FDA have the equipment and tools to force Hoffman La Roche to begin those changes.

Even today, however, even though the warnings say depression, psychosis and suicide are a possibility, we get letters like this from Hoffman La Roche and they deny it. Fundamentally, what is happening here is irresponsible. They are telling families to watch out. They are telling families to watch for signs of depression, but they continue in the media to say that this drug does not cause anything. And each day we are getting these reports of children who are good students, who are well adjusted, who there are no signs of symptoms of anything that could go wrong, and they are doing these spontaneous acts.

NEVILLE: Dr. Wexler...

WEXLER: Well, I would beg to differ on several points.

First of all, there was a family history of depression and suicide attempts. Second...

RYAN: That's false.

WEXLER: Excuse me. I let you speak. I would love to have a small opportunity to finish my points.

The second point is, there have been over 50 studies that have associated just having acne in teenagers with depression, so that any child or adolescent growing up alone has reason to be depressed. And if you add cystic acne, which can be a disfiguring or socially debilitating condition, they have reasons to be depressed.

And, third of all, the parents signed a consent saying they were aware of this problem and they knew about the family history of depression and suicide attempt. So, they were certainly aware that this was a possibility. There were specific consents pointing this out. And it is up to a patient and their family to be aware, when they sign something, that every drug, even aspirin, can cause a fatal bleed if you are one of those rare occurrences.

NEVILLE: Mr. Ryan, did Mrs. Bishop sign a consent form?

RYAN: The consent form said to the parent: "Watch out for these signs and symptoms. Look for loss of appetite. Look for sleeplessness, change in sleeping patterns, eating patterns, habits." None of that occurred.

How why Hoffman-LaRoche say, on the one hand, "This has no effect; there is no chance of psychosis or suicide," and yet say, "Hey, we are warning about it"? That it is like having a dog in your yard that you know is violent and putting a sign up, "Beware of dog," and then when the dog bites, you say, "I had no idea." I must dispute that

(CROSSTALK)

WEXLER: Well, this may be a case of overkill where, actually, pharmaceutical companies are being forced to put disclaimers on medicines because of rare associations. And, therefore, you are saying, "Look, watch out for these lethal side affects" when indeed they are doing it to be super cautious, when 2 percent of the general population between the ages of 15 and 24 have depression and have suicides.

You are talking about 1.8 percent of the age of 15 to 24 have suicide attempts of the general population.

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Hold your thought there, Mr. Ryan. Hold your thought. I have got to take a break. I have got a lot of audience members here who want to comment on this as well.

And I want to hear from you at home.

We will talk more on this subject after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE, everybody.

We're talking about whether there's a connection between the acne drug Accutane and a teen pilot's dramatic suicide.

And, Tyson, I promised I would let you speak before the break. Go ahead.

TYSON: Definitely.

I think that it is sad, first of all, that this family has lost their child. No one can deny that, that the family has gone through a lot of loss. And having his name being associated with Osama bin Laden is definitely hard as well.

But it is pretty clear that he acted of his own volition. Teenage suicide rates tend to be high anyway. And it tends to be honor students, students who feel that their intelligence isolates them from the rest of society that are oftentimes plagued by thoughts of suicide and going through with it.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Tyson.

And the gentleman here in the colorful shirt, stand up for me.

CHARLIE: Well, I have to totally agree with what Tyson said. And I am -- he kind of jumped the gun on me, but it is infuriating to hear the Bishops' lawyer characterize this boy as not having warning signs because he was an honor school and he did well in school and everyone liked him.

Well, you can be that way and still suffer from depression, like one in three people in our country suffers from depression. Many of them are overachievers. And we need to change our picture of what we see a person who is emotionally distressed as being.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Charlie, for that comment.

Now, Dr. Wexler, I would like you to ask you a question. And that is, you have proscribed Accutane for your patients in the past. Tell us what steps -- I mean, you don't just arrive at taking Accutane, right?

WEXLER: Well, actually, that is what I wanted to discuss.

I've actually used Accutane since it was in its protocol stages. And not only does it change people's lives for the better, it can frequently save a young person in development. I have had adolescents who have come to me who won't even look you in the eye because they are so ashamed of the way they look. And it brings them out and helps them succeed in life.

But when I have a patient come, it is mandated that they come every two weeks for blood tests, a physical examination. We go over symptoms. And then I check their progress and adjust their medication dose. And if they miss more than one appointment, they are discontinued from the therapy.

I consider this is a strong medication. And their course of therapy is very strictly supervised. If they do not comply with their therapy, they are not mature enough to be on the drug. And I have discontinued patients from therapy for that reason.

And one question I would like to know is: When was the last the prescription written for Mr. Bishop prior to this incident? Was he taking an old prescription or was he being supervised?

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: And according to the autopsy reports, that there was no trace of Accutane in the young man's blood at the time of his death.

RYAN: He was in his dermatologist's office two days before.

WEXLER: But when was the prescription written for the drug? Was he taking things he just saved?

RYAN: Dr. Wexler, ma'am -- Dr. Wexler, I know you have been involved with Hoffman-LaRoche for many years.

WEXLER: No, I have not. I have never had any association with them.

RYAN: I understand. But I mean you have been involved since the protocol. Just give me a chance. I want to respond to the question and the comments of your viewers. First, he was in a dermatologist's office getting a new prescription two days before this happened.

Second, it is convenient for us to want to put Charles Bishop in a box and say, look, even if you're an honor student, this can happen to you, because what is so frightening about this case and many other cases is that, where there is no warning sign, where there is no signs of the depression that you are looking for, things that family are told to look for, and this happens in bizarre, psychotic events, where they set themselves on fire or go throw themselves into a lake or fly a plane into a building, that, if that can happen to our children, who have hopes and dreams and look well adjusted, how frightening is it to let them go to school each day and give them a kiss in the morning not knowing if they are going to come home?

I think it is irresponsible for the company to say, on the one hand, "This can happen," but then to tell the doctors and the patients and the families: "It is so rare, it is nothing for you to worry about. Look for these signs."

NEVILLE: I'm jumping in here, sir, with Nicole.

NICOLE: OK, so you just admitted that it could happen to any person, right, any child, because they would sometimes have a psychotic event, regardless of if they were taking the Accutane or not?

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: No. It's a great question you have.

But what is frightening is that, if that can happen, then how do we ever let our children leave our sight? The point is, in these cases, and particularly Charles Bishop, but many other cases, Congressman Stupak's case, these are kids who are well adjusted who were on Accutane. Remember, it was the FDA...

NEVILLE: OK, I am jumping in again, sir, and letting another audience member speak.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, to the lawyer.

And you know what? Let's get real here. This is an emotional suit. It is simply an emotional suit. These pharmaceutical companies...

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... have gone overboard. Some of them have been extremely responsible. They interrupt during commercials. They take extra time to tell us all the side effects that could happen. They are funny. They are amusing. We pay attention. This sounds like an intelligent family, a very in-touch family that would have sat down with a doctor and asked, "What could possibly happen?" if that drug had that kind of risk.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much for those comments.

And I have a caller, Susanne, in Nevada. Go ahead and speak out.

CALLER: Actually, I am angry. I am angry about their simplifying this, because my daughter was on it six years ago. And we are talking about a person who was extremely independent. She was a president of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). She was the president of her student body. She had been going away since ninth grade representing the school. When she went away to college, we put her on Accutane.

Nowhere in the literature did it say it caused depression. This child was suicidal. I had to go pick her up from school. I didn't even know that that was one of the side affects until I was watching "Good Morning America" about a month ago. And there was a family on there whose child committed suicide on that, when they were using Accutane. So, you know what? If it is a possibility, they need to put that in the literature.

WEXLER: Now, as a physician, may I say something? Hello?

NEVILLE: Go ahead. Go ahead.

WEXLER: As a physician, going away to college can take a well- adjusted student and put them into a depression. And I am sorry your daughter experienced that. But I don't think we can equate every depression and every suicide attempt with a drug. And just going to college alone is associated with depression for both parents and children.

So, I think we have to look at each person individually and each instance individually and see: Do we take a drug like Accutane, which has saved countless children from despair, and do we destroy it by trying to make a correlation between one particular child's experience and a drug that they may or may not have been taking, since none was found in the blood?

RYAN: See, that's the problem.

NEVILLE: Joe -- I have a question here.

JOE: Yes, I was just wondering. This does not seem like a new situation, where people are led to suicide or they just get killed by a certain drug, such as Fen-Phen a few years ago. And I was wondering what past lawsuits have favored in these cases?

NEVILLE: Mike Ryan.

RYAN: That is a great question.

What we are finding is that these suits are now just starting because of the attention that has been given in the media of sensational, as well as public acts of suicide. We have had no cases that have been to trial to test this. At the same time, the company has been asked by the FDA to continue to change its warnings to make it more and more clear to families like the caller who just called in, who had a child well adjusted, and the company continues to say, "There must be something wrong with that child, something wrong with that family," because that is unfair.

And it was the FDA that dragged this company kicking and screaming to change its warnings.

NEVILLE: Mike Ryan and Dr. Pat Wexler, thank you both for being with us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.

WEXLER: Thank you for having me.

NEVILLE: Sure.

RYAN: Thank you.

NEVILLE: And up next: Cinderella stories. Three Big Game winners will take home more than $100 million each. But could one or all of them end up in the poorhouse? Ask a former lotto winner about the pitfalls of being lotto rich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Boy, boy, boy, boy, boy, there are at least three deliriously happy people today. They're sharing that $331 million Big Game jackpot. One of them is a 20-year-old woman from Georgia. And get this: This was her first time playing the lottery.

Let's listen to what Erika Greene told reporters today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is also her first time playing.

Erika Greene, BIG GAME WINNER: First time I have ever played.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you serious?

GREENE: I didn't know how to play.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the first 10 tickets that you ever bought?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's it. Don't gamble ever again.

GREENE: Well, I think that the people that are important to me will not be hounding me for money. So, therefore, it won't matter. So, people that are not important, that don't care about me, will be the ones that are doing that. So, therefore, it is not an issue with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: I don't know about that.

How long do you think she will hold on to that money? Here to talk about the possibility of winning millions of bucks and losing common sense are Kay Shirley, a certified financial planner and president of Financial Development Corporation of Atlanta. She joins us along with her client, O.C. Godwin. Mr. Godwin won $9 million in the Georgia lotto in 1998.

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: Hey, Mr. Godwin, you know that saying, "Give me five"?

O.C. GODWIN, GEORGIA LOTTERY WINNER: Yes.

NEVILLE: How about you give me he 5,000?

(LAUGHTER)

GODWIN: I heard that before.

NEVILLE: Right. Right. You have heard it all, haven't you?

Give us an idea. How are these winners feeling right now? They just became multi-multi-multimillionaires about -- hours ago.

GODWIN: Envious. Well, yes, I'm envious of those people winning all that big money.

NEVILLE: No, are they feeling? You feel envious of them? You have a lot of cash yourself.

GODWIN: Well, yes, I feel great. It is the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me, to win the lottery.

NEVILLE: What was the first thing you did with your money?

GODWIN: What was the first thing?

NEVILLE: Yes.

GODWIN: I went out and bought my wife a car.

NEVILLE: Oh, that's nice. That's a very sweet husband.

GODWIN: Yes, thank you.

NEVILLE: Of course.

Kay Shirley, here they are. They got all this money. What is the first thing they should do with the money?

KAY SHIRLEY, FINANCIAL DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION: Arthel, the first thing they should do when they learn that they have won the lottery is to rush to the telephone company and change their telephone number to an unlisted number.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

NEVILLE: That is very good advice. See, Kay, you are always thinking numbers, telephone numbers, accounting numbers. It does not matter.

SHIRLEY: Or at least get caller I.D.

NEVILLE: Now, what should they not do? What is the biggest misconception? This is newfound money. Suddenly, on paper, it looks like a ton of money. And it is a lot of money.

SHIRLEY: It is.

NEVILLE: But it could really slip through your hands if you are not careful.

SHIRLEY: Yes, it can. And that is one of the biggest mistakes people make, because they think, whether they have gotten the money through the lottery, through a retirement plan payout, through an inheritance, or through any other source, they think it is a lot of money and they don't have to protect that principal. So they have to learn the principal is sacred.

You can spend all of the income and all of the profit, but not the principal. Don't let it slip through your hands. This young lady has the potential of having $1 million to spend per year, after taxes, for the rest of her life...

NEVILLE: Cash? Cold cash?

SHIRLEY: ... if she manages it properly. I ran the numbers. Isn't that shocking?

NEVILLE: I sure hope she does work this out, because, oh my goodness, $1 million? I could just do a lot of shopping and traveling with that.

SHIRLEY: And, actually, you could give some of that money away, even.

NEVILLE: Of course. Absolutely. No doubt. SHIRLEY: But you have got to make sure that the $58 million -- which is going to be taxed and it will be reduced anyway -- the balance of that will be about $22 -- and that you don't want that to go away through your hands, because it will generate income for you for the rest of your life.

NEVILLE: Well, obviously, Kay Shirley has a lot of great information. And are going to learn more about how winners can avoid being losers after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody.

We're talking about everyone's favorite fantasy, including mine, winning the lotto.

O.C. Godwin, you won the lotto in 1998. And I have to ask you, did a lot of people call you, people you hadn't heard from in a while? Did they call you?

GODWIN: I had a lot of phone calls from relatives I did not know I had, from friends I did not know I had, and a world of salesmen that wanted to talk about money.

And the best thing you can do, though, whenever you do learn that you did win the lottery is like Ms. Shirley said. Just go down and call and get you an unlisted number for your house, because you are going to be bugged with calls all the time.

NEVILLE: Now, is there any part of your life that you wish you could go back to before you had the money?

GODWIN: No, ma'am. None whatever.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: You know what, sir? You are so humble. I was hoping you said, "No, ma'am." I certainly hope you said no to that answer -- the answer to that question.

Now here it is, a 20-year-old woman who has a possibility of having, after taxes, $1 million a year. What could she do to blow that?

SHIRLEY: Well, what she could do to blow that is to let some of the principal slip through her fingers, some of these relatives and friends she didn't know she had give her a sob story and have her give away the money. Suppose she did this, Arthel? Suppose she said, "I am going to give away to my friends $1 million to each of five people?"

Let me tell you what would happen there. If she did that, she would be very generous, but not only would she not be giving them that much money, she would be paying the government gift tax on that money at the rate of 55 percent -- not income tax, but gift tax. NEVILLE: Oh, my goodness.

Stay right there. I've got some more stuff to talk you about. But that's all the time we have for the show today. Thank you so much, Kay Shirley.

And, Mr. O.C. Godwin, thank you very much.

And I want to let you know, if you're in the Atlanta area, come on down and see me here. Be in our audience. I would love to see you in person. You can call 1-800-410-4CNN for tickets.

And I'll see you again tomorrow at 3:00 Eastern with more TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. I'll see you then.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com



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