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America Recovers

Aired October 16, 2001 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, anthrax anxieties on Capitol Hill: Nasal swabs, Cipro and office shutdowns are on the agenda.

And do envelopes these look familiar? They held anthrax-tainted letters sent to Senates Majority Leader Tom Daschle and NBC's Tom Brokaw.

Joining us in Los Angeles on this 10th day of attacks on Afghanistan: Navy Secretary Gordon England; from London, with the harrowing story of her 10 days as a Taliban prisoner, journalist Yvonne Ridley; from Washington, the chairman of the Select Intelligence Committee, Senator Bob Graham; and with him, Senator Richard Shelby, vice chairman of the intelligence panel; plus, Retired Air Force Colonel Randall Larsen, director of the ANSER Institute for Homeland Security; from Ankara, an exclusive interview with the prime minister of Turkey, his nation an important part of the anti-terrorism coalition; in New York, Sir David Frost, with special perspective on British-American ties in troubled times. And singer Charlotte Church offers us "Amazing Grace" -- all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

It's a great pleasure to welcome to LARRY KING LIVE here in Los Angeles, Gordon England, the secretary of the Navy. He is the 72nd secretary of the Navy. He was executive vice president of General Dynamics. On his first day on this job, he introduced President Bush at the Naval Academy. He was nominated in April, sworn in on May.

And go figure, huh?


KING: Where were you on September 11?

ENGLAND: Larry, I was in Fort Worth, Texas. The night before, I had a dinner, the Navy League at Fort Worth, Texas -- speaker -- a lot of old friends. I was getting ready to come back to Washington when the events happened that morning.

KING: Were you in your hotel or going to the airport or...

ENGLAND: No, I was going to the airport. And these events happened. So I heard the news. And I went out to the airport. Our airplane was grounded. This is a Navy airplane coming back to Washington. Navy -- the airplane was grounded like everyone else for a short period. But then we got clearance to come back to Washington. For a time, perhaps, I expect my airplane, the president's, were the only two in the air at some point in time there. It came into Washington with F-15 and F-16 air cover.

KING: What was that like, that flight, like for you?

ENGLAND: Well, of course, we didn't have any communications.


ENGLAND: We didn't know what was happening, literally just knew some of the things that happened, knew that something had been hit in Washington, but didn't know until we were airborne that it had been the Pentagon. But I really didn't hear much until we got on the ground. We went to the Navy Yard. We didn't go to the Pentagon, because the command center had been destroyed. It was at ground zero in the building. So went to the Navy Yard, where we had a temporary headquarters set up.

KING: What did you immediately see -- what was your role? What was secretary of Navy going to do now?

ENGLAND: Well, the secretary of the Navy doesn't have control over the fighting forces. We have control over, basically, the forces getting ready. And we do everything except the fighting force itself. So I was with the chief of naval operations, leadership of the Navy, making sure we had security in place, that we were on alert; we were getting ready, as the president said, to be ready, carry out the president's orders.

But at the time, it was gathering information. We were getting information from commanders around the world, stations around the world, people phoning in. So we were still collecting data that morning.

KING: What prepares for you this, Mr. Secretary?

ENGLAND: Nothing prepares you for it.

KING: General Dynamics don't prepare you.

ENGLAND: Not this kind of event -- nothing prepares for you it.


KING: You're always was an executive, obviously.


You are always ready for a crisis, but not a crisis like this. I don't believe anyone in the nation or anyone in the world was ready for this kind of a crises.

KING: When did you meet with the president?

ENGLAND: I met with the president the next day. So the event happened on Tuesday morning. The president came to the White House. He came to the Pentagon the very next day about 6:00 the following evening. It was very traumatic.

KING: And what was that like?

Well, of course, the fires were still burning in the Pentagon. At the Pentagon, you could still smell the smoke. We didn't know how many people were killed. We didn't know who all was missing. We still had people in the hospital. Some were critical. So there was still a lot of unknowns in the Pentagon itself. But the president came in about 6:00 that evening. He came into the Pentagon.

Of course, everybody was there to greet him, all the employees. He came in the conference room, met with the secretary of defense, met with the service secretaries, chiefs of all the services.

KING: What is that like? What was the mood in that room?

ENGLAND: Well, it was still very emotional. I mean, everybody was still trying to assimilate the events of the day before. A lot of action had taken place, of course -- again, putting troops on the ready, etcetera. But, nonetheless, I think everybody at that point was really looking for leadership -- what next? -- when the president came in.

And, Larry, this was very early. This was the very next day. And the president came in. I will remember this evening -- that evening for a long time, because the president came in. And the first thing he said was -- he looked around the room and he pointed to each of us, and he said: "Don't Forget. Don't forget." He said, "No one in this room,' he said, "don't forget."

He said, "I will never forget." He said: "Now, the nation will go on to other things. It has to go on to other things." He said: "But I will never forget. None you have can forget this," he said, "because we have to -- we have to root and eliminate this evil." He said, "We must do it." He said, "Otherwise, the next generation, our children and grandchildren, will live in terror." He said, "And we better be patient doing this," he said.

He knew then. He had internalized this. Larry, this was the leader speaking to the leadership. I was proud of the president.

KING: I'll bet.

What, Mr. Secretary, is the Navy's role in this phase of the war on terrorism?

ENGLAND: Well, of course, the Navy right now, as you know, is deployed. And so we are flying sorties. We fly sorties every day in support of the mission in Afghanistan. So the Navy is very, very active flying sorties. And, of course, we stand watch around the world.

KING: Do you have different tasks than the Air Force? Both of you go into the sky, right? ENGLAND: Yes, we go into the sky, but -- well, we work as a team. And so we -- the Air Force and Navy are in the sky together. Right now, they are doing strategic missions. We are doing tactical missions, because our carriers are there and available.

KING: We have had to admit to some civilian targets -- hit a Red Cross station late today. How do we -- how do you deal with something like that? It is obviously not intended.

ENGLAND: No, it is obviously not intended. We deal with it. First of all, we try not to have this happen, Larry. Certainly we try to avoid this at all costs. Collateral damage, any damage to innocent civilians is of great concern to us. But it happens. It is war. And we try to avoid It. I do think it points up the contrast between a terrorist organization and the people in United States, however.

KING: How so?

ENGLAND: I mean, we lost 5,000 people, who were deliberately targeted, innocent men and women, children in airplanes and at their desks. Innocent men, women and children, they were targeted. Our nation as a nation, our people as a -- I mean, we feel badly when people are injured as a result of war. So if we injure a few people, it doesn't...

KING: We're apologetic.

ENGLAND: We are apologetic. And we try very hard not to have it happen, even though we have lost all these people ourselves.

KING: You said to me before we went on: "What do you think the terrorists hoped to accomplish? What do you think their goal was?"

What do you think their goal was? And did it succeed?

ENGLAND: Larry, I don't know what their goal was.

But today, I was out talking to the sailors. And I asked that question to them. I said, "What did the terrorists hope to accomplish?" And I thought about this. Do you think, in their wildest, that they thought that they would bring down the government of the United States, or they would cause panic, or they would cause dissension, or we would decide that we would give up our ideals of freedom and liberty?

I mean, if they had any of those ideas, they obviously were totally wrong and they didn't understand the United States of America. For 225 years, generations have been defending those ideals that we believe in. So if they thought that was going to happen, it's had the opposite effect, because the nation always -- always -- pulls together in time of crisis and threat.

KING: I know you have special operations forces. And I'm not going to -- I know you can't go into detail as to specifics. But can you give us an overview of what the Navy special ops do? ENGLAND: Well, of course, the Navy has probably best special operations force the world has ever known. It has the United States Marine Corps. So we do have deployed Marines around the world. We have...


ENGLAND: Pardon?

KING: Do you have SEALs?

ENGLAND: And we have SEALs. And they are generally deployed together. So we have amphibious assault ships around the world ready at all the time, with Marines, typically 2000 Marines and SEALs, and air -- think of them, the small carriers -- and air power on those decks, 30 days of supply ready to go, everything from water, food, bullets, medical, hospital, everything on board.

KING: We're going to take a break and come right back.

The secretary and the folks from the Navy, here is the scene today as we go to break. Watch.


KING: There was the secretary, our guest tonight. This was where? In San Diego, right?

ENGLAND: Yes, this is San Diego today. Yes, sir.

KING: One of our naval bases.

ENGLAND: I was -- terrific naval base. I was there on board two ships today, meeting with our sailors, mainly sailors, some Marines today. But these are the sailors of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). These are outstanding sailors on board ship. And these are terrific people, Larry.

You know, the...

KING: You've gotten to know them.


KING: You've gotten to know them.

ENGLAND: Oh, yeah, I've gotten to know them, absolutely.

KING: And to those who may not know, because someone asked the question, the Marines are part of the Navy.


KING: There isn't a secretary of the Marines.

ENGLAND: That's correct. KING: October 12th was the one-year anniversary of the attack on the Cole. You were not the secretary of the Navy then. You are now. Have you been to the Cole?

ENGLAND: Yes, I have. I went down to the Cole a couple of weeks ago down in Ingalls Shipyard. They're repairing the Cole now. I met with the crew. It's a new crew: some of the old crew, some of the new crew. About half of it, about half of the total crew is on board. Also the people who repaired, working on the ship. And so I spoke to the members of the crew and also to the people working on the ship.

And I told them, Larry, that we now know that the attack on the Cole was not just an attack on the Cole. And in fact, we know the attack in New York was not an attack on the World Trade Center. The attack on the Pentagon was not just an attack on the Pentagon. We know that together that was an attack on the American way of life. They just happened to be targets. But this was an attack on the American way of life by terrorists, international criminals.

KING: When is the Cole going to sail again?

ENGLAND: It will sail sometime next spring. So it's being repaired now, and the crew is ready, anxious to go. And I will tell you it's a terrific work force of people down in Mississippi working on it. I mean, highly motivated. They'd all like to be sailing with the ship.

KING: What's the state of Navy recruitment, by the way?

ENGLAND: Actually, it is very good. Even before the events of September, our recruitment was up, our retention was up. But of course, now a lot of -- a lot of retirements, people have pulled back their papers. They want to stay, they want to serve.

KING: Really?

ENGLAND: Oh, yes, they want to serve. I mean, they -- they want to do what they can for their nation. I mean, that's a characteristic of the Navy for 226 years, Navy and Marines. So I think that's true with all Americans.

KING: Were you a Navy man?

ENGLAND: No, I was not.

KING: What -- were you in the...

ENGLAND: No, I was not in the service, no.

KING: Muscle Shoals, Alabama, we'll take a call for Secretary England. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. I want to just kind of hearken back to what he said about San Diego. I had two uncles that went to World War II from San Diego, and I saw the footage there. I want to ask the secretary how he compares the attitude and the patriotism from the World War II sailors and seamen to the attitude and patriotism of today's sailors and seamen.

KING: Have you talked to those, any back then?

ENGLAND: Well, I haven't, but of course, I know the background just from historical accounts and books and all of that. Let me make one comment, first of all, the Navy and Marines are all volunteers. This is a total volunteer force.

KING: Nobody's drafted in.

ENGLAND: Nobody's drafted. All these people go forward to protect and defend the United States. So these people are all volunteers. They're all highly educated. They're all just superb people.

The strength in the Navy, I think World War II and today, and before that, the strength in the Navy is not the equipment. The enduring strength in the Navy is people and leadership. It has been that way for 226 years and it will continue.

So I think probably that's a common trait at from World War -- World War II to today, has been the people.

KING: You were involved in the running of a big corporation?

ENGLAND: Yes, I was.

KING: Secretary Rumsfeld reports that he wished before October 11th -- before September 11th to overhaul the military structure. Does it need overhauling?

ENGLAND: Well, I think it does. It does particularly now in light of what's happened 9/11, and I think we will be very careful, I think the secretary is going to be very careful in what we do, because there's a lot of value, obviously, that's been built up over the years. But he has already discussed looking at a more international type of organization rather than a regional organization that we have today. So today, we have regional war-fighting commanders in chiefs, a more international type of an organization.

We also need to be more efficient, Larry. If you're efficient, you're effective. We always want to be more effective. So we will continue to work that.

KING: Have you retired from business?

ENGLAND: I was about to retire. I...

KING: Why did you take this job?

ENGLAND: Well, I was asked to take the job, and frankly I felt qualified to take the job. And it was an opportunity to serve the country. And...

KING: But when you're used to all your life running a corporation that has a profit motive -- at the end of the month or the break or the fiscal period, did we make this or this? No profit motive in this job.

ENGLAND: No profit motive.

KING: So what's the different -- the difference mentally?

ENGLAND: The difference mentally in this job is the satisfaction. I mean, this is really serving men and women in uniform.

KING: You get that feeling?

ENGLAND: Oh, you get that feeling every day.

Look, these are terrific people, Larry, and again, these are people who volunteered. I mean, they -- they have the cloth of the nation they wear, and they go into harm's way, and they do that willingly every day for the citizens.

KING: Portland, Maine, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Good show tonight, Larry.

KING: Thank you.

CALLER: Mr. Secretary, what do you think is the greatest situation going in either for or against your group? In other words, what do you find the biggest challenge to be heading into a situation like this?

KING: It's a good question.

ENGLAND: The biggest challenge, you mean after the events of 9/11?

KING: Yeah.

ENGLAND: Well, I'm not sure there's a big challenge. I mean, part of this, part of this is deciding how we go forward. I mean, I think the challenge is, given this new world environment and given where we are today, how do we go forward. We've been surprised twice now in our history, right? Once at Pearl Harbor and once on 9/11. So how do we prevent surprises in the future?

So the biggest challenge is looking ahead. Looking ahead to make sure we don't have future surprises, and that's just not -- that's not just the Navy. I mean, that's the total Department of Defense and all the federal agencies.

So this is a case of the Navy working with all the federal agencies, Department of Defense. How do we do -- how do we do a better job in the future?

KING: One other thing, at the -- at the office you inhabit, are they worried about anthrax, are they checking mail?

ENGLAND: Oh, yeah, they're checking mail, absolutely. I believe today everybody is checking mail. Also, on board ships, like everyone else, be prudent, check the mail. We're not doing anything, I don't think, extraordinary, but we are checking the mail.

KING: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Great meeting you.

ENGLAND: Hey, my pleasure. Thank you very much.

KING: This will be the first of many visits.

ENGLAND: Great being here. Thank you very much, sir.

KING: Gordon England. No "sir." Sir? Thank you very much, sir.

Gordon England, secretary of the Navy.

When we come back, an extraordinary story. Yvonne Ridley will be with us from Great Britain. She was a prisoner of the Taliban. Don't go away.


KING: We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE, coming to us from London, Yvonne Ridley, reporter for the London-based "Sunday Express," who was arrested by the Taliban on September 28, detained for 10 days inside Afghanistan.

Let's tell it right from the top, Yvonne. Thank you very much for coming and joining us.

What were you doing there?

YVONNE RIDLEY, "SUNDAY EXPRESS": I had been sent to Islamabad to cover the buildup during the crisis after September 11. The reason why I was sent to Islamabad was because I couldn't get any flights to New York, which is where my newspaper originally wanted me to go.

After two weeks in Pakistan, it became quite obvious to me that there wasn't going to be a military strike for at least 10 days, 10 to 14 days. And so I thought I would try and get into Afghanistan and speak to the real people about their situation, their lives, their hopes, their fears, why they were remaining behind while millions of others were fleeing to the border.

And so I made my decision to go into Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the embassy in Islamabad refused to issue me with a visa. And, by this time, all Western journalists -- in fact, your man Nic, I think he was one of the last ones out of Afghanistan.

So the only way to get in there was to use -- using subterfuge, which is what I did.

KING: Are you a journalist, Yvonne, who likes danger? I mean, do you like to go to trouble spots?

RIDLEY: I have been a journalist for 25 years. And I, you know, like to report at the sharp end of the news.

KING: How did you get in?

RIDLEY: I went in wearing a burka, which is the traditional Afghan dress given to Muslim women. And it is all-enveloping. And I walked in. Once a woman puts on this outfit, she becomes invisible and doesn't even rate a first glance, never mind a second glance. And, wearing this costume, I became invisible and walked straight through past the Taliban.

KING: How were you, then, ever stopped?


Well, I had been in the country for two days. And having achieved what I set out to do, I then headed back. But, unfortunately, for some reason, Pakistan had decided to close the border at Talken (ph), which is at the head of Khyber Pass.

So I then decided that the best way to go through to the other side would be through one of the many porous routes on the border. And I set off in that direction by taxi and also by foot, and then, last of all, by donkey. And it was the infernal donkey that caught me out. It went to bolt and I let out a scream. And then, as I tried to grab the reins, my Nikon camera just swung straight into view just as a Taliban soldier was walking past.

KING: So they arrested you and charged you with what?

RIDLEY: I was charged with being an American spy. Sorry, I wasn't charged. They were threatening to charge me with being an American spy. And they said I must be a secret agent. And during the interviews, when this all emerged, I said: "Well if I am America's secret weapon in this war, then God help America."

KING: Also, you are not American, are you?

RIDLEY: No. No, I'm not. I have relatives living in Minneapolis, but I am not an American. I was born in the North of England.

KING: Where did they take you, Yvonne? Where were you held?

RIDLEY: They took me, for the first seven days, to the intelligence headquarters in Jalalabad. And after that, I was taken to Kabul prison, where the conditions are really appalling and extremely squalid.

KING: Were you physically hurt?

RIDLEY: No, no. There were a lot of mind games played on both sides. But I never once felt at all intimidated or threatened physically by these people. In fact, the Taliban treated me with great courtesy and respect.

KING: Did that surprise you? RIDLEY: It did, because we -- you know, we have demonized these people. And, you know, I was expecting all sorts of horrendous things to happen to me. But once I was in their captivity, it rapidly became clear to me that I was not going to be under any sort of physical threat.

KING: You kept a diary by writing -- using the inside of a toothpaste box?

RIDLEY: That is right: a toothpaste box and some bits of cardboard and bits of paper. I managed to get my hands on a pen the first day. And they asked me if I needed anything. I did say that I needed toothpaste and other personal toiletries, which they supplied to me. And I began writing notes on the inside of the tooth packets.

KING: Which you later printed when you got home.

RIDLEY: That is right, yes.

KING: Did you make contact with -- we have two workers, two American women that are being held by the Taliban. Did you happen to run into them?

RIDLEY: Heather and Dayna. Yes, I met them. And they are two wonderful girls, very spirited, tremendously strong. And, you know, they really were an inspiration. I thought felt quite humbled by their faith and belief.

KING: Why do they continue to be held? Do you know?

RIDLEY: They have been charged with trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. That is my understanding of it, anyway. And they are going through a trial.

KING: And that is a crime there?

RIDLEY: That is one of the many crimes in Afghanistan.

Going out and buying new clothes is now a crime. Wearing nail varnish is a crime. Having, owning a TV is a crime. Listening to music is a crime. Singing is a crime. There are, you know, numerous crimes in Afghanistan.

KING: You were where when Kabul -- when the air strikes started?

RIDLEY: Yes, I saw it happen. I watched it. I was, by this time, moved to the Taliban sleeping quarters. And I, you know, watched the air strike. I saw the bombs coming down. I saw the anti- aircraft fire, the sky lighting up. It was an awesome sight.

KING: Do you fear being hit?

RIDLEY: No, no. I mean, we are all aware that, you know, that these smart missiles do have a good accuracy rate. And I thought that the prison would not be seen as a target. And so I was quite comfortable that the prison would not be targeted. KING: We understand the two local guides who were helping you were detained. And you don't know what happened to them, right?

RIDLEY: The two men who were detained are in Kabul prison. And I said right from the beginning, when I was arrested, and they were also detained, I insisted and told the Taliban several times under interrogation that these men have nothing to do with me, and that, you know, "Would they please release them?"

And I'm hoping that they will show the same compassion that they showed me and they will release them, as well as the eight aid workers who are in Kabul prison at the moment.

KING: Yvonne, how and why were you released?

RIDLEY: I think that there was a huge network of activity going on behind the scenes, as well as publicly. I know that President Musharraf put pressure on the Taliban. I know that Prime Minister Tony Blair also put pressure on the Taliban. My editorial director, Paul Ashford, flew out directly and gave a presentation to the Taliban ambassador and his deputy in Islamabad requesting my release, saying that I was a journalist. And...

KING: What did they do, just drop you at the border?

RIDLEY: And there were also other things going on.

KING: Did they just take you to the border and...

RIDLEY: They drove to the border. And we waited an agonizing 38 minutes before the gates opened into the Khyber Pass. And then the car that I was in moved forward five yards. And I was told by the Taliban man from the foreign ministry, "You are free to go."

KING: Pretty nice words, huh?

RIDLEY: And I got out of that car, and -- yes, it was -- it was a phrase that I doubted that I was ever going to hear at some really low moments.

KING: Are you a single parent?

RIDLEY: I am a single parent. And I have been greatly criticized for this. And the hypocrisy from female journalists in particular has been breathtaking.

KING: Criticizing you for -- what? -- leaving your daughter?

RIDLEY: Yes. And -- and -- well, just, you know, that I'm a single mother and I left my daughter. I mean, I don't see anybody shouting and asking Nic Robertson if he's got children, you know, when he's doing his amazing reports. It just doesn't enter into anyone's head when it comes to a male war correspondent.

But the -- the whole business of being a female reporter at the war front is seen in a different light. KING: What was it like when you reunioned with your daughter?

RIDLEY: We had a very private reunion. I went to her boarding school, and she, when she saw me, she was walking down the corridor. She lept on me, hugged me. There were a few little sobs, and then I took her to a room and I said, "Are you angry with me?" And she said: "No, I know it's your job, but why didn't you take your passport? That was really silly, mummy."

KING: She was right, as most 9-year-olds are.

RIDLEY: It was a wonderful moment.

KING: Yvonne, are you back to reporting now?

RIDLEY: Well, I've been asked to do so many things, and I have been asked to go out to New York to visit ground zero, because that was where I was originally going to go, .

KING: Are you going to go?

RIDLEY: And a lot of people see this as -- well, I'm -- it's one of the offers that I'm considering. And so I'm going to take the next couple of weeks off and just, you know...

KING: You deserve it.

RIDLEY: ... take things easy.

KING: Thanks for spending this time with us.

RIDLEY: Thank you. Thank you.

KING: Yvonne Ridley. Yvonne is...

RIDLEY: You're very welcome.

KING: Yvonne is a reporter for "The Sunday Express," quite a story. More of LARRY KING LIVE after this.


KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE, all in Washington, Senator Bob Graham, Democrat of Florida, chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence; Senator Richard Shelby, Republican of Alabama, vice chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence; and Colonel Randall Larsen of the United States Air Force, director -- formerly of the Air Force -- director of the ANSER Institute for Homeland Security. The Web site, by the way, is

All right, Senator Graham, what's going on? The Senate office building is closed. Everybody getting searched. No visitors. What's happening?

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), CHAIRMAN, SELECT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, what's happening, Larry, is that September 11 has moved across the Potomac and is now in our nation's capital. They found an anthrax letter in the office of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. As a result of that, about a third of the Hart Senate Office Building, including the offices of my friend Dick Shelby, were quarantined and will be for an indefinite period.

This has really dramatized to all of us just how close and personal this war against terrorism is.

KING: Senator Shelby, now in your case, the staff has been tested. What? Everybody is given a three-day supply of Cipro. You, too?

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), VICE CHAIRMAN, SELECT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I have, I have been tested. And this is my second test, Larry.

I happened to have been in New York at the NBC studios a week before, and I was tested Friday, got the test back yesterday. The test results were good. In other words, negative. Then I'm called at 6 o'clock this morning and told that they were quarantining my office, but so forth.

So I get to my office and talk to my staff, and we have a Senate meeting set up by Majority Leader Daschle, Senator Lott, and we were told to do other tests. I did my second test. And they put me on some medicine. I said I believe I'll protest, and the Navy doctor said, no, take it. Said you're going to be all right, and we'll know if you're really all right in 48 hours. I feel good.

KING: Colonel Larsen -- I'm glad to hear that. Colonel Larsen, is this getting worse before it gets any better?

RET. COL. RANDY LARSEN, DIRECTOR, ANSER INSTITUTE FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, we've been saying all of last week that this is going to be a long war. Things are going to carry on for a while here. We need to stay strong.

One thing I'd like to say, though, there are more people that have been exposed out there. I met a young lady today who had been in an office where an envelope was opened, and she said, you know, I didn't take my Cipro. I said, wait a minute, this is not the time to be cavalier, you know.

The majority of these are hoaxes, and there's a good possibility, if it were anthrax, you weren't even exposed. But when they give you the Cipro, take it for the three days until they get the tests back.

KING: Senator Graham, your state has been a central point in this. One man dead. Florida, of course, has been a central point, lots of things in the news. Some of them quite negative. How concerned are you about it getting worse?

GRAHAM: What I'm concerned about, Larry, is that the day after the assault on New York and the Pentagon the CIA said in an unclassified briefing that the chances were that September 11th was not a single event, that there would be further acts of terrorism, because the whole purpose of terrorism is to make the people so anxious, so fearful that they will fundamentally change their way of life. And this, although we don't know just what the origin of these anthrax letters are, they could be part of that pattern of future acts of terrorism, and there is no reason today to believe that the last shoe has dropped.

KING: Senator Shelby, did -- is it therefore succeeding? Have they created terror and fear?

SHELBY: They have created some fear, but that's something that we shouldn't let prevail. I know I'm trying hard to do what I do every day. I will be at work tomorrow. I will -- although I don't have an office right now, and I'll probably move in with Senator Graham or somewhere.

But my staff will be there, and we're going to continue to work. I continue to fly. I will continue to fly.

I believe if we hunker down and hide and panic, the terrorists win. We're not going to do this. America is too strong. And I believe, although we've been visited here in the Senate with anthrax, I believe we can set an example and say: "Gosh, we're going to win this war, we're not going to panic, we're going to maintain our daily life, and we're going to do whatever we have to do to prevent any outbreak."

KING: Colonel Larsen, what do you say to Americans? What do you say? I mean, the worry is obvious. In fact, it's a good idea, I think, to worry, isn't it?

LARSEN: A little bit. I'm a little bit fearful, because then that's good, because it keeps me more alert. But I think Senator Shelby and the U.S. Senate are all setting a great example tonight.

You know, these guys, they don't think they have any high-tech weapons left to use against us. They are disorganized because of all the great work the FBI is doing in the country and what's going on with our troops over in Afghanistan, disrupting them. They're still going to try to do some things against us.

The American people need to stay strong. Our troops are over there fighting, and we need to support them at home. And the best way to do that is to go to work.

I think America should adopt the motto of one of my heroes, General Vinegar Joe Stillwell. He said: "When times get tough, you've just got to remember illegitimis non carborundum."

KING: Which means?

LARSEN: Which means don't let the bastards get to you, Larry.


We're better than they are. Good is going win this war, Larry. And they're evil and we're good. We're dropping bombs and food at the same time.

KING: Senator Graham, are you confident, are you optimistic that right will prevail, if that's the correct phrase?

GRAHAM: I'm absolutely confident that right will prevail. The key to this victory is going to be for the American people to have the patience and tenacity to see this through. But this is an unusual situation, Larry: not since Pearl Harbor and all the way back to the War of 1812 did a foreign enemy attack us on our homeland.

This has galvanized the American people in a way that we have not known for a long time, and I believe that the American people are ready to win this war and to win a world which will be safer, more secure, and a happier place for our children and grandchildren.

KING: And as a government, Senator Shelby, are we well-supplied? Do we have enough -- do we have, for example, the antibiotics for people who can't afford it?

SHELBY: Well, I think the government should supply whatever we need to the people who can't afford it. But right now, I don't think we're in -- in a crisis mode as far as anthrax is concerned. It will be interesting to see what all the investigation comes up with. But it is troubling that there are some similarities between those letters that were mailed from Trenton, New Jersey, to NBC and others, and now to Senator Daschle's office.

KING: We're going to continue more on this in nights ahead. We thank you all very much, Senators Bob Graham, Richard Shelby, and our man, Colonel Randall Larsen of the United States Air Force.

When we come back, the prime minister of Turkey. Don't go away.


JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Any time, someone sends anthrax through the mail it's an act of terror. It's terrorism. And we treat it as an act of terror and terrorism. But we -- while we have not ruled out linkage to the terrorist attack of September 11th or the perpetrators of that attack, we do not have conclusive evidence that would provide a basis for our conclusion that it is a part of that terrorist endeavor.




KING: We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit, the prime minister of Turkey. He comes to us from Ankara, Turkey. Turkey has pledged its support for the United States-led anti-terrorism campaign.

What have you pledged to the United States, Mr. Prime Minister? BULENT ECEVIT, PRIME MINISTER OF TURKEY: We have pledged land and air facilities from soon after the tragic events in the United States. And we have promised logistic support. We have offered training for the local forces in the northern part of Afghanistan. And the other day, the Turkish parliament convened and decided to extend certain possibilities, like allowing dispatching Turkish forces abroad and allowing foreign troops to be stationed in Turkey, in the Turkish territories.

And we have been invited by the United States to participate through liaison offices, the liaison place in Florida. Only seven countries were invited to take part in that organization: That is, Turkey, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Canada, and Australia. This shows that a lot is expected from Turkey in the way of ameliorating the situation in Afghanistan.

KING: Are there any American planes or troops in Turkey now?

ECEVIT: Yes, certainly. There are always the American troops and air fleet, particularly in Incirlik, the famous Turkish base. And now we are allowing the American air forces to make use of Turkish airspace and territory.

KING: Your country is the only nation in NATO with a predominantly Muslim population. Does this give you any political problems at home...

ECEVIT: That's right.

KING: ... this support? Do you have political problems from...

ECEVIT: No, not political problems. On the contrary, Mr. Larry King, we consider it as a very important asset, because we are at the stage of joining East and West, Asia and Europe, and the United States throughout the world. And Turkey, as you know, is a predominantly Muslim country, but it is a secular country also. It is a very democratic country. And we have proven that Islam can be compatible with democracy, with modernity.

Therefore, so we believe that our position as an Islamic country stationed in Europe, on the edge of Europe, is an asset not only for Turkey, but for the whole world.

KING: To your knowledge, Mr. Prime Minister, we're receiving reports that there was supposed to be an attack on the United States embassy in your country and that it was averted. Was that true?

ECEVIT: I have not heard anything about a design against the American Embassy in Ankara, but of course, there are rumors every day. But our security forces have become very expert. They have been able to prevent many planned atrocities in the recent months. And we take every precautionary measure to protect our guests and our American friends.

KING: Do you expect or think or fear that the United States may carry this on into Iraq? ECEVIT: I hope not, because that would destabilize our region, the Middle East, very much, and it could lead to the partitioning of Iraq, which in the meantime could create problems for Turkey, for Turkey's independence or territorial integrity.

After all, we provide (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for checking the armament efforts of Iraq. We don't see any reason for attacking Iraq at all. It is, in a sense, under full control from regard of armament.

And recently, there have been statements by responsible American people that the United States does not have any designs on Iraq at the moment.

KING: Thank you very much, Mr. Prime Minister. We'll be calling on you again. It's wonderful to see you.

ECEVIT: Thank you. This has been a pleasure for me.

KING: Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit, the prime minister of Turkey, coming to us from Ankara. Back with more on LARRY KING LIVE, after this.



KING: Joining us now from New York, an old friend, Sir David Frost, the famous television interviewer and best-selling author. Sir David is in New York supporting a U.K. in New York.

Does U.K. need any support in New York after the events of the past five weeks? I think U.K. is very popular in New York, is it not?

SIR DAVID FROST: Well, that's right. I think the thing is really that the title changed, because it was going to be U.K. in New York, talking about 250 different events. And after the tragic events of September 11th, it became U.K. with NY, with New York: as you say, reflecting what's happened across the whole system, which is that with Tony Blair and everything, I mean, it's been -- it's actually been U.K. with U.S. and leading the support.

And I think never have the two countries, and someone who feels himself to be a citizen of both, I have been thrilled with the way that Britain has supported this situation. And I mean, the countries I don't think have ever been closer than they are tonight.

KING: I'd agree.

FROST: Would you -- are you surprised at all at how well Mr. Blair has done?

KING: Not at all really. He's a man who really rises to a crisis, and he's very, very eloquent, and he's very, very moral, too. This is a moral crusade. And I suppose -- we're not supposed to use the word crusade. We're supposed to say "moral campaign." But this is very much a moral campaign, in his case. He feels this passionately. He has this really good relationship with President Bush.

And I mean, this is really a moral campaign for him. It's not just a convenient position. And of course, some people have said, are you exposing the U.K. to greater danger? I guess he would think that we would be second in line, in any case.

And so he wants to get in there and back America all the way.

KING: Where were you, Sir David, on that terrible morning?

FROST: Oh, well, I was in London, so therefore it was just after lunch. I came back from lunch. And Trevor (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in my office said, come here, come here, you won't believe this. And the first -- the first jet had hit. And then I just watched, as we all did all around the world, just absolutely disbelievingly for the rest of the time. And I mean, the feeling was so total in Britain, so shared in Britain. I mean, it was the first time, as you were saying earlier, that quite this had ever happened anywhere in the world, and in particular, Britain's been invaded and had terrorist strikes, but never, never anything like this.

And so the sympathy around the world was just enormous, and with this campaign now, the purpose of all war is peace, said Saint Augustine, and that's -- that's the purpose of this war.

KING: You know New York very well, probably as well as any Londoner. How is it -- how is it doing?

FROST: Well, I've been here for the start of this festival for just two or three days on this particular trip, and it's the first trip I've made since the events of September 11. And I must say I've really admired tremendously the strength, the courage, the fortitude of people here. There is still a sense of being shattered. There is still a sense of not really being able to believe what's occurred.

But the courage and the fortitude -- I mean, I was too young to remember the blitz in England, '39 to '45. But it must be a similar feeling, a similar courage, a similar determination to win in the end against evil.

But you've just got to admire -- I've always admired New Yorkers and loved New York, and you have to admire New Yorkers today as you walk around this city.

KING: Did we, the collective "we" meaning the media, miss this terrorism story?

FROST: I don't think so. Maybe -- maybe "we" the intelligence community, which is not in fact you and I, Larry. Maybe the intelligence community missed it a bit, but it's difficult to anticipate something like this.

Freddy Forsyth, our mutual friend, started writing a novel some years ago, which he gave up because he felt following what had happened in Lebanon, where there had been a suicide truck, that he was almost giving away the idea of a suicide plane. And so, therefore, he didn't write that book.

And there were warnings with the Genoa conference, the G-8 conference there.

But it's very easy in retrospect to say that this intelligence community should have done all this, isn't it? I mean, it's tough. I mean, I don't think the media could have worked it out. But maybe the intelligence community could have, and maybe...

KING: Are you going to be in New York for two weeks?

FROST: Not for the whole two weeks. I've got -- I've got to go back. The events go on, the London Symphony Orchestra is here, and 250 other events.

KING: That's a great (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

FROST: And I'll be back, I hope, toward the end of the two weeks again.

KING: Sir David, we'll call on you again. It's always great seeing you.

FROST: It's always great seeing you and greetings and see you soon.

KING: Good luck to you. Sir David Frost, one of our favorite, favorite people.

Speaking of "favorite people," there's an extraordinary young lady in our studios in New York. She's Charlotte Church, the 15-year- old singing sensation. Her latest album is called "Enchantment," and Charlotte is going to do a song for us, as we do every night. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the uplift side.

You went to ground zero, did you not, Charlotte?

CHARLOTTE CHURCH, SINGER: Yes, I did, and it was very touching. And you know, it was just -- I mean, it's so difficult for a child to comprehend the enormity of the September 11th attacks and the enormity of this whole kind of new war going on. And so it was quite hard to kind of take in.

But I wanted to go down there, because I wanted to pay my respects and I wanted to see history in the making. And when we went down there, there were so many people with cameras and camcorders. And it was just like, why, why do people kind of feel the need to do that? It's kind of like seeing firsthand the whole humid -- human morbid fascination thing. It's strange.

KING: It never gets out of you. Charlotte, we will now do what you do so well. We will close our program. We'll be back in a little while to tell you about tomorrow's guests. But there is the wonderful Charlotte Church and "Amazing Grace."


KING: Tomorrow night, Solicitor General Ted Olson and others. Next, it's Aaron Brown in New York.




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