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Larry King Live

Ramsey Attorney to Release Tapes; Drew Carey on Trauma and Triumph

Aired August 30, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, he is a fabulous funny man with two hit TV shows. His life has not always been a load of laughs. Drew Carey will join us in Los Angeles, talking trauma and triumph.

But topping the news, inside views on the police Q&A with John and Patsy Ramsey, against their lawyer's advice. In Atlanta, the Ramseys attorney, Lin Wood; in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Ramsey case special prosecutor Michael Kane. They're both next on LARRY KING LIVE.

John and Patsy Ramsey were questioned by Boulder authorities during separate meetings in their attorney's office in Atlanta on Monday and Tuesday.

Joining us from Atlanta is Lin Wood, and from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Michael Kane. Michael is on contract to the prosecutor's office in Boulder.

Michael, you were part of the questioning. Did you learn anything yesterday or today that changed your mind, added to the facts, caused you to think differently?

MICHAEL KANE, RAMSEY CASE PROSECUTOR: Well, Larry, I'm not on this program or any other program to talk about the facts of the Ramsey investigation. This is a case that's been going on for three and a half years and we have had a policy -- I have certainly had a policy that it is not appropriate to talk about the facts. The reason I am agreeing to appear here tonight is because Mr. Wood has been making comments about our approach during these last round of discussions with the Ramseys, and I would like an opportunity to respond to that.

KING: All right, but the question was: Did you learn anything different? Not what did you learn, but did you learn something?

KANE: Well, I mean, you always learn any time you have an opportunity to ask questions of witnesses or suspects, and so, of course, we learned information. I'm not going to deny that.

KING: All right, Lin Wood, what was your objection since, as you say, your clients didn't do it, what did it matter how the questioning went, as long as they didn't do it and answered the questions? LIN WOOD, RAMSEY ATTORNEY: Well, even innocent people need to be protected from overzealous and less than objective prosecutors such as Michael Kane.

KING: What did he do?

WOOD: Well, Michael Kane wanted, for example, to go into an area dealing with forensic tests, some test results primarily on fibers, he wanted to tell us what the results of the tests were and then ask a hypothetical question about it. The test results, as they described them, were confusing, they couldn't give us a clear explanation, so I said just show us the results. You know, interrogators often will intentionally mischaracterize things such as forensic tests so that they can go on a fishing expedition.

We are almost four years into this investigation of this family, millions of dollars, special prosecutors, a grand jury for 13 months, Larry. Every inch of this family's life has been examined and re- examined. They have been subjected to police interrogation for over 66 hours. So my question for Michael Kane tonight is, Mr. Kane, are you now ready to state that you are prepared to file criminal charges against John and Patsy Ramsey? It's time for you to answer that question, and you owe that answer to the American public and to this family.

KANE: Mr. Wood, neither I nor Chief Beckner are going to be directed by you, or by your clients, or by anybody else as to when it would be appropriate to file criminal charges. When we reach the point -- as every prosecutor in this country recognizes, when we reach the point where there is an individual against whom we can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt, we will file the charges.

WOOD: Well, Mr. Kane, what else do you have to do to investigate John and Patsy Ramsey? What possibly could be left to do? You have collected all the physical evidence from the crime scene. You have done all of the forensic tests known possible to be done. I mean, 66 hours of voluntarily coming in and answering questions from skilled police interrogators -- what else is there to do? Isn't it time for you to acknowledge that you have done everything you can do, you have exhausted the investigation, and as much as you might like it, it's not there? You want it to be there, Mr. Kane, but it's not there and it's time for you to acknowledge that.

KANE: Well, Mr. Wood...

KING: Michael -- let me interrupt. Michael, it's a fair question only in that the public is already with enough of this already either -- I guess the old term is put up or shut up. What's the story?

WOOD: Absolutely.

KANE: Well, you know, and I don't ascribe to that at all, Larry. I don't know how many cases, criminal cases Mr. Wood has had, but I have had quite a few, Bruce Levin has had probably twice as many as I have, and Mitch Morris -- he's had more than that. And we've had cases that have been a week old, we have had cases -- I tried a murder case that was 15 years old. You don't try a case until you get to the point where the evidence proves it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Are we there now? No. Will something happen next week that could put us there? Perhaps. Could something happen in five years that could put us there? Perhaps. But I'm not going to be dictated, nor is the Boulder Police Department going to be dictated, by a demand by Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey or anybody else to put up or shut up. That's not how the criminal justice systems works.

WOOD: So you're acknowledging tonight, Mr. Kane, that after this period of time, this much investigation, this much money, these hours of interrogation, you are admitting tonight that the evidence is still not there, and I guess you're telling us that someday, you're hoping a miracle will occur, and you'll find something to prove your case, despite the fact that you haven't been able to do it in all this period of time. I just think that's a -- continuing to show a lack of objectivity and fairness to this family.

KANE: You know, we went down to Atlanta, because we have been told by you, Mr. Wood, that the Ramseys were willing to answer any question that was put to them, so long as we weren't plowing over old ground.

WOOD: As long as it was fair.

KANE: And if you'll recall, I wrote you a letter on July 13th, in which I said in response to a letter that you had written the day before, I said to you -- and if I could read this, Larry, it's important: "In recent conversations with you and your clients, we agreed there would be no need to plow old ground in this case. It serves no purpose in the investigation to pose questions which have already been answered. We did not, however, ever hint at a willingness to roll over and play dead if a question was not to your or your client's liking. We do not conduct interviews with anyone, suspect or witness, under such terms, nor would any other competent law enforcement agency."

After receiving that letter, Mr. Wood, you called me before the ink on your fax machine was dry and assured me that whatever question that we had that was germane to the investigation, your clients were willing to answer.

WOOD: And they did. And they did.

KANE: And then we got down there, we found out otherwise.

WOOD: Not true, absolutely false.

KING: We have a difference here. Are you saying, Michael, questions were not answered?

KANE: Absolutely. Absolutely. I told Mr. Wood, before we left, he said, do you have further questions? I said, I have many, many more questions. But with the parameters that you've set, I'm not going to ask those, because I'm not going to listen to a 10-minute speech every time I ask one of these questions, and that's how it was left.

WOOD: That will not be borne out by the transcript of that interview. The only questions that were not...

KANE: Release it.

WOOD: Well, if you would like for me to. I thought Chief Beckner asked me not to.

KANE: You've already done it, Mr. Wood. You've already released it.

KING: Do you have -- did you release all the transcripts, Lin?

WOOD: No. I released a small segment of an afternoon session that shows some problems that occurred with Mr. Kane's conduct in the interviews. I did that because the Boulder Police Department issued a press release basically praising Mr. Kane's conduct. I found out that Mr. Kane was going to appear on "Good Morning America," and so I decided it was appropriate to let the public see what Mr. Kane did and how he did it, and let the public decide if his conduct was appropriate.

KING: Lin, do you plan to release the whole thing?

WOOD: Well, it just sounds like I've been asked to do so by Mr. Kane, and I will tell you this, Larry...

KANE: I'm not asking you to do anything.

WOOD: I thought you just said release it.


KING: Well, why not? Why not release it, Lin? Why not release it, Michael?

WOOD: Listen, I'm more than happy to release it. I'd like to for the public to know exactly what this police department has done to John and Patsy Ramsey.

KING: Well, who can release it? Michael, can you release it?

KANE: I'm -- we're prosecutors, we work under prosecutorial ethics, and our ethics are, we don't discuss a case, we don't release information about a case.

WOOD: You're on national television discussing the case, so...

KANE: And I'm not here talking about the facts of the case, Mr.Wood.

WOOD: What are you here to talk about?

KANE: I did not leave the interviews on Monday afternoon and hold a press conference. I didn't do that. WOOD: We didn't either.

KANE: You did. You did.

KING: I'm a little confused.

WOOD: We went outside to a waiting group of journalists who wanted to have some questions answered, and I thought they were entitled to answers.

KING: Michael, if someone is questioned by prosecutors or police, and says, release it, I don't care, you can a hear everything I said, what could you possibly have against that if the person being questioned wants it released?

KANE: I don't have a problem with it. I'm saying that as prosecutors, we can't release it.

If Mr. Woods...

KING: Who can't?

WOODS: Sure you can. He's got my authority to release it if you need it. Go right ahead and release it, Mr. Kane, and release...

KANE: But, Mr. Woods, I don't even have it. I don't have the tape.

WOODS: Release the 48 hours of videotape when you interrogated him for three days in June of 1998. Let the public see what you did to them in those days.

KANE: You have...

KING: Let me break here, fellows. Let me get a break.

Michael says you can release them, Lin.

We'll come back with Lin Wood and Michael Kane.

Drew Carey still to come.

Jerry Lewis Friday night.

Don't go away.



WOOD: Mr. Kane, you misrepresent my letter to you, you misrepresent our conversation, you misrepresent your statements that I have imposed conditions -- let me finish. All -- the only...

KANE: Mr. Wood, this is a sham.

WOOD: No, it's not.

KANE: This is a big publicity stunt...

WOOD: No, it's not.

KANE: ... on your part. You want you to go out there and say my client answered every question. Well, don't say that, because you're not letting your client answer this question.




KANE: That medallion worked in a school. It was tied into something in the -- in the -- principal's office. Is that correct?

PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Right.

KANE: So on way to school it wouldn't work. What...

RAMSEY: Well, I...

KANE: Why did you allow her to go without any security against Tracy Temple's (ph) advice, as a matter of fact, to be transported to and from school when he was most vulnerable.

RAMSEY: Well, he -- he left the garage in a locked car and drove straight to school, and then was escorted into the school.

KANE: You didn't have any concerns about somebody, a stop sign...

WOOD: Mr. Kane...

KANE: Michael.

What's the objection now?

WOOD: I just wondered, what does this have to do with the investigation into finding who killed JonBenet Ramsey?

KANE: The very fact that I'm asking it means it has something to do with it.


KING: Lin Wood, you released that tape to us, and Michael says you can release all of it; will you?

WOOD: Well, if Michael has authorized me.

KING: He just did.

WOOD: Well, then, Michael... KANE: I'm saying I have no objection.

WOOD: I will absolutely accept you request that I release those records, and release those tapes, and we'll release the June of 1998 tapes.

And I would challenge you, in return, to tell us now why the grand jury that you were in charge of, after 13 months, refused to issue an indictment in this case. Would you tell us that, please, Mr. Kane?

KING: But you will still release them, right, Lin? He has agreed to let you release.

WOOD: Let me say one thing too, Larry, about the interviews, if you don't mind, because it is important to know...

KANE: Mr. Wood, let me ask you...

KING: Let him answer that first. Go ahead.

WOOD: Let me finish. During the interviews, John and Patsy Ramsey did, in fact, answer every question, even the questions that I thought were basically a waste of time about whether or not they had adequate protection for their son Burke, then 10 years old, when he returned to school in Boulder in 1997.

They did not answer a handful of questions about the forensic tests, but I offered, if they would simply show me the results so that we could verify that they were telling us accurate that we would answer those.

But what Mr. Kane does not know is that when he had already left, the other members of the interrogation squad were there, and we didn't have any problems with those six individuals. My clients gave to Chief Beckner, the Boulder Police Department, their direct private telephone numbers, and they told Chief Beckner: We want to have a dialogue with you. We want to work with you. If you think there is something that we can give you, in terms of additional information, pick up the phone and call us, don't even call our lawyer, call us directly. That is cooperation.

KING: I have got a time problem here, Lin. But you will release them, and Michael has given you permission.

And now, Michael, he asked you, why -- to explain why the grand jury did not indict.

KANE: Larry, Mr. Wood, if he has ever practiced criminal law, which I don't know that he ever has, but I assume that he knows, because it is criminal law 101 that no prosecutor can talk about what went on in the grand jury.

WOOD: Sure you can.

KANE: I can absolutely not talk about what went on in the grand jury, and you know it, and you know it, Lin.

WOOD: Mr. Kane, why don't you just tell us why the grand jury didn't take any action. It is a fair question. The public is entitled to know. This is not...

KANE: No, I'm not -- I'll tell you what, Mr. Wood, I'll tell you what: If you will go to court with me, and ask the president judge to authorize a release of that information, I will release it.

WOOD: I will walk into that courtroom with you, I may not...

KANE: I will sign that petition with you, Mr. Wood, I will sign.

WOOD: Let's get this case...

KING: Wait a minute.

WOOD: Let's get this case out fully and fairly before the public.

KING: We have made some progress here tonight. Lin Wood will release all the tapes he has got. And Michael and Lin will go to court together; Lin will ask for the release of the grand jury, Michael will say is OK.

WOOD: I look forward to seeing you in court, Michael.

KANE: I will tell the judge I have no objection. If you say that you will waive rule 6 and allow us to release that information, I will tell the court I have no objection.

WOOD: Let's the truth come out, Mr. Kane.

KANE: All right, very well.

KING: We're going to have you both back for an hour when all of it comes out, and I appreciate you being with us, Lin Wood and Michael Kane, and the dilemma goes on.

When we come back, Drew Carey on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: What a great pleasure to finally welcome to LARRY KING LIVE: Drew Carey, actor, writer, comedian, star, creator, and executive producer of "The Drew Carey Show" going into its 6th season. Host and executive producers of "Whose Line is it Anyway?" going into its second full season.

What an extraordinary career on top of the world.

DREW CAREY: Everything is going really good. I just have to say, I was watching the earlier segment with the attorney -- how you would like to have to argue with a guy and not be able to swear at him and call him a name. That has got to be the toughest thing. KING: You want to say you...

CAREY: I wanted those guys to go, you know, you are just being a...

KINGS: There is lots to talk about, but, first, how much of, since it bears your name, how much of that show is you?

CAREY: I'm a lot. I wouldn't put up with as much crap as that guy does on TV at all.

KING: Because Dick Van Dyke wasn't him.

CAREY: I would have quit that job a long time ago that I have there. I would never put up with somebody treating me like Mimi treats me. I wouldn't do -- I am way more ambitious, than...

KING: Why didn't you give the character another name, then?

CAREY: I wasn't thinking. Wasn't thinking.

KINGS: Should have been the "Fatso Berman Show" (ph)...

CAREY: Yes, something. I wasn't -- it hit me when I was doing the pilot and I saw my name on the saw horses and stuff and all the sets, and I saw "Drew Carey on it for "The Drew Carey Show," and I was like, oh, man, that is a lot of pressure. You know, having your name on because...

KINGS: You got to be there.

CAREY: I mean, between you and me, if the producer makes a mistakes, or if somebody makes a mistake, they don't go the producer is off his game tonight, it is Larry.

KING: Drew.

CAREY: It is Drew, yeah, so yeah.

KING: But, hey, it has been worth it, huh?

CAREY: Yeah, oh, yeah, I think, you know, having my own name on it really helped my -- it has helped my promotability.

KING: How much of your earlier problems, which you were gutsy enough to come out with in '97, led to your present success?

CAREY: I think everything. I think everybody builds on their, I think, problems they had. My problem, I'm telling you, I downplay all of my problems. I mean, I put some stuff in my book, you know, to...

KING: You wrote about depression, you wrote about being sexually molested.

CAREY: I really bad problem with depression. I actually thought I had a happy childhood. I did have a really bad problem with depression. And it is just something, you know, that really drives you to try to succeed and get ahead when you have been like that, when you finally see a door that is open to success, you think: I want to make up for -- it is like I am making up for my earlier life. I am making up for my 20s.

KING: You thought your earlier life was happy, when you were living it?

CAREY: Yeah, I thought...

KING: It is in retrospect that it was unhappy.

CAREY: I never said I had an unhappy, I just said I happen to have had...

KING: Bad things happen.

CAREY: I happen to have a couple of bad things happen to me, but everybody did, but I didn't want anybody -- you know, when I wrote the book, I didn't want anybody to think I just had an easy time of it and just fell on to the show. And I wanted to set myself up as a role model because everybody has troubles. You go to anybody's childhood, and find things that happened to them. They had rough times here, rough times there, things didn't go so well. But you overcome that and you succeed. So I thought, if I put that in there, people could see: Oh Drew had problems, and he is a big success. You know, I didn't put in as a -- to get pitied or anything like that. I put it in where it is a chance to tell everybody: Look, everybody has got problems. I had problems that I overcame. And you can overcome too.

KING: Is that why you wrote it?

CAREY: Yeah, that is why I put it in mostly.

KING: To want to help people.

CAREY: I thought people could learn from it.

KING: How, Drew, did you overcome depression?


KING: Was there a key factor? was there a drug?

CAREY: No, no, I didn't take any drugs. I still get depressed once in a while, but I don't think it is chronic like it used to be. I learned how to -- I bought a bunch of self-help books, self-help tapes...

KING: Really?

CAREY: Yeah. I listened to them, and I believed everything they told me, they sold me, and I started to make goals for myself. I wrote affirmations. Things they tell you do, like list all the good things in your life, the things that you are worthwhile about.

KING: Those things worked.

CAREY: They worked like a miracle. I mean. you talk to yourself all day, every day anyway. Everybody tells themselves things all day. You might as well tell yourself something good, and you might as well say good things about yourself. It is not a dopey thing to tell yourself over and over again: I'm a good person, I'm a worthwhile person, I can be successful, I'm good enough to do this.

KING: If it is a chemical imbalance, there are pills that work.

CAREY: Oh, yeah, there are. Absolutely, I mean, I'm not saying that drugs are bad for...

KING: Just you didn't need them.

CAREY: I didn't...

KING: When you get those moments now, what do you do?

CAREY: You know, have a good cry.

KING: Let it out.

CAREY: Let it out.

KING: Don't do it here, OK, Drew?

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: Maybe you should do it here.

CAREY: I got angry on the stage just yesterday. Something happened -- it was a minor thing, but I didn't sit around. I said: you, you and you, I need to talk to you, and I told exactly why I thought they let me down, exactly what I thought was wrong. You know, and there was -- five minutes later everything was great.

KING: Are you a tough boss?

CAREY: I don't see myself as even a boss.

KING: How do you see yourself?

CAREY: Leader.

KING: Difference is?

CAREY: Boss tells people what to do, leader sets an example.

KING: Shows. We will be right back with the extraordinary Drew Carey, lots to talk about, your phone calls as well. Don't go away.


CAREY: OK, was traffic all right? what time did you get up this morning? what did you have for breakfast? I had eggs. Do you like eggs? I like mine over easy.

KATHY KINNEY, "MIMI": Get the hell way from me.

I guess this you getting back at me for the fake, fake dog poop incident.

CAREY: I guess it is pretty lame, is that is all there is to it.

MIMI: My desk.

Everything you got belonged to the company.

CAREY: Three, two, one...



KING: We have something in common, both lost fathers at a young age.

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: What did that do to you?

CAREY: Eight years old. At the time, I got to tell you, I didn't think about it. I didn't think anything of it. And everybody, I remember, all of the crying. I remember at the funeral I wanted to touch the body to see what it was, you know, to see what it was like.

KING: You were 8.

CAREY: I was only 8 years old, and he had been in the hospital for years before I -- before he died. He has been in and out of the hospital, a lot of heart problems. He had, you know, blood clots in his legs, and a couple strokes, and everything. He had his eye out. They were trying to get to tumor in his brain, they took his eye out. I remember him showing me how to breath -- how he could breath through his eye socket. Stuff like that. I mean, it was really -- he had a lot of problems.

KING: You are wondering why you were weird.

CAREY: He was just trying to, like, show me...

KING: You called yourself a weirdo kid, right?

CAREY: I was weirdo kid, yes, I was in the band...

KING: Were you a nerd?

CAREY: I guess, yeah, I wasn't a -- like people think of nerds as being really smart, but I wasn't a smart nerd.

KING: People made fun of you at school?

CAREY: No. I was one of a group of people that were pretty funny and get away with anything.

KING: Class clown.

CAREY: We didn't really have a class clown. There was just a bunch of us that happened to be funny, and well liked, and I remember those kids that could walk around the hallway without a pass, and the teachers would go: It is just Drew.

KING: How did get into this business?

CAREY: I was working as a waiter. Well, I mean, when I was in college, I always wanted -- I always said I would never plan on being a comedian. But my mom found something I wrote when I was 14 years old, I must have been 13 or 14 judging by way I printed it, and on it was a list of things like what I want to do with my life, and have my own TV show, be a nightclub comic...

KING: Really?

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: And you don't remember that?

CAREY: No. No. I have done everything except pet a pony, I think pet a pony was on there.

KING: You get out of Kent State, and you join the Marine Corps Reserves.

CAREY: I was in the Marine Corps Reserve for a while for six years.

KING: Bunch of odd jobs.

CAREY: I needed a job so I joined the Reserve.

KING: What else did you do?

CAREY: Oh man, I sold books over the phone, I did a lot of phone solicitations stuff. I had one job I sold water conditioners in Las Vegas, door-to-door, $1400 selling door-to-door.

"Hi, I'm Drew Carey from the water conditioning company."

"I told that guy not to send anybody," and they slammed the door in my face.

KING: Now, then you go start writing comedy material in the late '80s; right?

CAREY: Yes, I started because -- when I was at Kent State I thought I would try to do standup because I always liked to watch stand-up comics on "The Tonight Show" and stuff with Johnny Carson. And I thought, oh, that would be fun to try. And I tried it and was really bad at it, I was terrible. I wouldn't even repeat any of my material it was so bad. And I remember the one -- one of the weeks I did at the local comedy club, when I finally opened, I got a job as an MC -- never got paid, by the way, never got paid anything -- and they would give you free drinks.

I did 10 minutes on Thursday or Wednesday. Then they cut me to five minutes on Thursday. And on Friday, the guy says: I want you to just introduce the acts, don't do any time at all. I was really bad.

Then I just -- I thought, well, that is something I tried, well, what the heck.

And then later on. I was working as a waiter, and I got in a big fight with the owner, and I was worried about getting money, you know, it was the holidays, and a friend of mine, who I knew from before, was a disk jockey, and he said he would give money if I wrote jokes for his radio show because he always thought I was funny. I said: How much? He said: About 10, 15 bucks a joke. So I thought I could make an extra hundred bucks a week writing jocks.

KING: That is where you started?

CAREY: Yes, I went to the library and I got a book on how to write jokes so I could make an extra hundred bucks a week.

KING: What was your break break? "Tonight Show"?

CAREY: Yes, absolutely.

KING: Has they seen you work.

CAREY: Yes, I auditioned for them once, and I got the show, and then I missed doing it because I didn't get a phone call in time, when I was out here in L.A. Then I had to wait three years before I got back on.

KING: And you were on with Carson; right?

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: And he invites you on the couch.

CAREY: Just like I dreamed. I got Carson, Ed, and Doc Severinsen, I got all three. There was no substitutes. And they were taking a lot of days off when -- that was their last year so I got lucky to get all three of them. He called me over to the couch. I made the "Best of Carson" tapes, you can rent it at the video store, and see me on the "Best of Carson" tapes. It was great. It was like the dream come true.

KING: I will be right back with more of the Drew Carey saga. And we will include your phone calls. His TV show goes into its sixth year, and his wonderful improve, "Whose Line is it Anyway?," into its second full season. He will not need a benefit. We will be right back.





CAREY: Hi, I'm Drew Carey and welcome to the live episode of "The Drew Carey Show." Not only are we live tonight, but we are going to be improvising a lot of show in front of you.

Here to tell you more is out host, Brad Sherwood.


Five seconds, Drew.

CAREY: Oh, I better get into my costume. There you go.

SHERWOOD: OK, every time I come out on stage tonight, the actors are going to have to come up with their lines on the spot in front of millions of people.

COLIN MOCHRIE, ACTOR: So, Drew, I hear that you swore off women a couple of weeks ago.

CAREY: Yeah. A store therapist talked me into it. Yeah, I took some time to find the real me and I never felt better.

MOCHRIE: Good for you. I found the real me in the Navy.

SHERWOOD: Hold on. Every time they hear the bell ring, the actor has to come up with a new line.

MOCHRIE: I found the real me when I was body double on the movie, "Touched by Hell's Angel."

I found the real me when I was on that rafting trip in the Ozarks.


KING: How did you come up with that idea?

CAREY: The live episode? We got that from the -- we wanted to do a live episode, but we just didn't want to do it -- we thought live was no big deal. You know, had to do special extra to make it -- people want to watch it. Because they had just had -- you know, they did the live "ER" and stuff. And it was just a slick episode of "ER," you know.

And so we thought: Give people a car crash.


CAREY: Yeah, give people a car crash to watch. But Colin -- by the way, Colin Mochrie had his best line. We did rehearsals. And every time they would ring the bell, he would come up with a new line in rehearsal. But he did his best lines in rehearsal. But he never repeated once a line once.

KING: Really?

CAREY: No, he came up with new lines every single time.

KING: The scene we showed going out, the nude seen...

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: How did you get them to do that?

CAREY: I had to really like talk them into it. First of all, I said: Listen, this is going to be really funny. But we've got be naked. And the all guys were married except myself and Mr. Wick at the time. Craig Ferguson was not married at the time. We were the only ones that went totally nude. The rest of the guys wore a little pouch.

And then we had a big thing with ABC about the microphones stands, because you can't show a butt crack before 10:00 on ABC.

KING: You can show it one minute after that.

CAREY: You can show it 10:01, it's fine -- on "NYPD Blue." You can't show it at 9:59 on "The Drew Carey Show." So we had to do that did that ripping off the shorts about four five time to get the microphones just right. And the poor wardrobe ladies, you know, they know me better than anybody now. I flew them all to Vegas, like, the night next.

KING: How did you home up with "Whose Line is it Anyway"? That's off the British thing?

CAREY: Yeah, OK, it's for the British -- it's based on a British show. It started as a radio show on the BBC about 12 years ago. And the -- I started doing improv with Ryan Stiles and a couple other people, and everybody from the cast at the local comedy club, because I wanted to learn improv. And after a while I said: Hey, we should do a summer show for ABC. I thought it would be fun to do a summer show, because ABC didn't have any summer shows then.

And I said: We should do "Whose Line" as a summer show, because it's risky. But they'll do it during the summer. It will be cheap. They got nothing to lose. And, Dan Patterson, the guy that created it, who happened to be in town at the time talking to a studio about selling it into syndication. And the studio -- I'm not even going to saying the names -- but they didn't want to use Colin. They didn't want to use Ryan -- because Colin's bald an old, and Ryan is tall and goofy.

They didn't want to use the two funniest guys.

KING: Who did they want: Tom Cruise? CAREY: I didn't want to say, because I don't want to embarrass anybody by saying their names. But they wanted really -- totally inappropriate -- but they wanted young, hip guys, who are not necessarily -- and good-looking -- who aren't necessarily funny. I don't think they really got the idea behind the show. So we showed it to...

KING: Do an improv show with non-funny people.

CAREY: Yeah -- or, you know, marginally funny people. So -- yes, that is a really tough show to do. So -- we -- you know, showed it to the heads of ABC. Then they looked at it. And they really got it. And they took a chance on a summer show. So we were ABC's first summer show that they brought on.

KING: So now you have two shows going.

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: You're...

CAREY: Well, "Whose Line," I just do on the weekends.

KING: You have goals beyond this?

CAREY: Yeah. I want to do a lot of things. I mean...

KING: Like?

CAREY: Well, my theory is, I'm only going to be famous for a while, so I have to like, do everything now. That is why I'm trying to do so many things. I want to start a -- we are doing a live pay- per-view, live improv pay-per-view in January, the night before the Super Bowl: two shows. No two are the same. We are selling two shows on Saturday. So you can watch both shows and never see the same thing.

KING: You obviously enjoy working.

CAREY: Yes, I like working. I don't think it is work. It is fun. Doing improv, to me, is the funnest thing. It's more fun to do than standup, because it's new every time. I don't have to do the same old act.

KING: High -- big role of dice, though, right? It's either funny or it's not.

CAREY: Yeah, you are really taking a chance all the time. But I surround myself with -- one of my keys to success is I surround myself with really good people: other people's brains.

KING: Are you a good improv act?

CAREY: No, I'm not -- I'm only an average improver. But the people I work with are great. They are world-class.

KING: It's a special quality, isn't it, that they have?


KING: Think fast.


KING: And sometimes, they have no idea where they are going.

CAREY: No. And you really have to -- there is a lot of like improv rules. You can -- it's something you can learn. But it's like anything -- you can learn to write, but good writers have something inside of them.

You can learn to be an improver, but -- and learn the rules of it -- but the really great ones like Colin and Ryan have something innate. But there is like rules like: yes. The yes-and rule, where you can't disagree with anybody. If we were making up a scene and I said: OK, I'm putting a coke down here. There is a coke there. There's this can of soda there, no matter what. You can't deny it. You can't say it's not there. And then you could bring in something: a bird.

I can't -- I have to deal with the bird there. You know, there's stuff like that.

KING: You can't be as if it's not there. You can't dismiss what the other person...

CAREY: You can't dismiss what the other person said. You always have to agree with them and then add to it whole time you're doing a scene.

KING: A lot of classics come. Mickels and May (ph) began that way.

CAREY: Yeah, I mean, it's really -- yeah, watching people do great improve, it's all -- they are all acting school games.

KING: You are a bachelor, right?

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: And like it?

CAREY: Yeah.

KING: You don't want to be married.

CAREY: No. No. I have a girlfriend. And she's going to be mad here. I think she wants to. I don't get married at all.

KING: You think she wants to get married?

CAREY: I think so, yeah.

KING: You don't discuss it?

CAREY: We have discussed it. And I don't want to get married.

KING: So she stays with you. She hangs on.

CAREY: Yeah. I don't know why. Try and find something better, baby.

KING: You are in tabloids a lot, right?

CAREY: Yeah, they always use the wrong picture

KING: And what are they usually saying do they say about you? Are they...

CAREY: It's nothing really bad. The stupidest thing was -- it's all stuff like, one time -- my famous story I like to tell is one night, they said I was on a potato diet. Ryan Stiles and I were going to fly to Cleveland. And we were at the airport. And he opened up a tabloid. We were -- it was just like early morning, waiting for a plane.

And I saw a picture of me. It was the same picture. I was in different outfits, but I weighed exactly the same in both pictures, because I knew where they were taken. But one, I was turned to the side, and one I wasn't. So they said -- it was like a before-and- after -- Drew lost 20 pounds on a potato diet. And they had like a potato recipe, you know, with potatoes in it that I recommended, which I never did.

And they had quotes where I never said. But when he saw it, he looked at me, and I was eating a sausage McMuffin with Egg. He's goes, how is that potato diet going? And I went, huh?

KING: When we come back, we'll take calls for Drew Carey.

Don't go away.


CAREY (singing): Christmas is a holiday that I really hate. There is nothing about it to which I can relate. So every December 25th, I kick off my shoes and go down to the deli and hang out with the Jews.



CAREY: Look at the things I'm able to do in my life. Isn't that cool?

KING: What did it feel like to be like a Wayne Newton?

CAREY: Singing "Danke Schoen" with Wayne Newton? It was great.

KING: Yes, how did it feel?

CAREY: It's fantastic, he's a really nice guy.

KING: Great guy.

CAREY: And it's -- you know, it's such a classic Vegas tune, you know. He just -- I couldn't believe it, I thought I was dreaming doing that.

KING: Let's take some calls for the Drew man -- you like that, the Drew man?

CAREY: Yes, sure, that's all right.

KING: Newport Beach, California, hello.




CALLER: Drew, you are by far the sexiest man on television.

CAREY: God bless you.

CALLER: But the question I have is do -- your show...

CAREY: Boxers.

CALLER: ... "Whose Line" is so great because my -- the whole family watches it, and the kids just absolutely think it's wonderful and -- is everything truly not scripted?

CAREY: It's all made up. Everything is made up. They have no idea. The only things we know on the show, they know what games they're going to play. We rehearse the games ahead of time, like we'll use suggestions from old shows that they have heard, practically the same suggestion every time we do rehearsal, so the cameras can, you know, practice their moves, and they know where their starting marks are, where they have to put the stools and stuff like that. So they know what games we're going to play, they know we're going to do questions, they know we're going to do hoe-down, so they know all that stuff. But they don't know what the suggestions are going to be, so they have to make everything up. And Wayne will know -- Wayne Brady does a lot of songs on the show, he'll know that he is going to have a choice of about four or five song styles. When I do things where you have to sing the songs, he'll know it's going to be one of four styles of music, or five that he's...

KING: But other than that it's...

CAREY: He doesn't know who I'm getting from the audience, what her name is, they don't know anything that's going on.

KING: When someone like a comedian or an actor becomes famous, one of the things that takes away, you would think, from their talent is the ability to observe.

CAREY: Yes, it does.

KING: Most great comics, writers, actors can observe movement, but when they're being observed...

CAREY: It's horrible.

KING: ... it makes it harder to observe.

CAREY: It's horrible. I love -- I mean, one of my greatest joys when I wasn't famous, I'd go to the mall or something and just stare at people.

KING: And you get funny things from that.


KING: Now they are staring at you.

CAREY: Yes, now they're staring at me.

KING: So is it harder?

CAREY: Yes, it's very hard to write original stand-up material for me, that's one of the reasons I started doing improv, because I -- you know, I go to the grocery store, but it's not the same, because they know...

KING: That's right, they know you.

CAREY: I can't relate to -- I can't tell people -- I don't know why Jay Leno gets away with it, too, because Jay Leno will go, I was at McDonald's the other day, and I was like, you're not at McDonald's.

KING: Yes, I'll bet.



KING: Brocton, Illinois, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Drew.


CALLER: I was wondering did you and your character Mimi get along in real life?

CAREY: Mimi and I get along great in real life. We just went -- we just had a real nice vacation together, we took the -- I took a bunch of the people on a cruise, we went to Belize and Honduras.

KING: You are good to your crew, right?

CAREY: I try to be nice to them, yes. I mean, I -- I guess, yes.

KING: What is the key to a sitcom success? I mean, there are so many, the odds are tremendously against.

CAREY: You have to have so many things go right for you.

KING: It has to be in the writing first, right?

CAREY: You have to have good writers, and that's tough -- you know, that's tough to do. Not everybody -- you know, it's one of those things, you know, everybody thinks they are -- can be a comedian because they can tell a joke at a party, or everybody tells...

KING: Yes.

CAREY: You know, it's not that easy and -- you have to have good writers, the cast has to be right. The set design has to be good, the director has to be good. There is all kinds of things that have to go right. You have to get a good time slot, you have to -- the network has to believe in the show -- a million things. You really beat the odds by getting a show on the air.

KING: Did your's hit it from the start?

CAREY: No, no way. We got barely -- barely got picked up for the second season. We found out on the very last day. As a matter of fact, I was down in Disney World, where they were having their big -- having one of their big meetings.

KING; In Florida?

CAREY: Yes, and I was there just on vacation the week before, and I was going to hang out and -- waiting to hear the word, you know, because I figured might as well be here, and all the posters and all the -- you know, next fall on ABC, there was Ellen, there was Bret, there was Tim, there wasn't me. I wasn't anywhere, I wasn't anywhere on these pictures.

KING: You had to feel it was doomed?

CAREY: I thought it was going to -- not going to be picked up. We barely -- I know for a fact that we barely got picked up for our second season, they waited until the very last day, there was a lot of arguments at ABC...

KING: And then what worked in the second season?

CAREY: We did that dance number at the start of the second season, we did "A 5:00 World." The dance number started the second season, got a lot of notice. And the big thing that helped us is when they decided to pick us up, the people that really believe in us said, OK, let's really push this show and they put us on after Bret Butler and after "Roseanne" -- "Grace Under Fire" and "Roseanne" -- they double pumped us all week long for about a month and a half after "Grace Under Fire" and "Roseanne," so people got to really sample the show and see the show. KING: So luck is a part of it?

CAREY: Luck is a part of it. They wouldn't -- I really believe if they hadn't put us on after "Grace Under Fire" and "Roseanne," which were both doing really well at the time, people wouldn't have noticed. And the dance number really helped us for people to watch that first show.

KING: And how do you keep it fresh?

CAREY: Man, it's really tough, you just have to...

KING: Six years.

CAREY: You just have to think, well, you know -- well, you know, we have -- like the live show really helped, like doing stuff like that, and doing like crazy things. Like, we're writing a scene right now where nobody talks in the whole scene, we just go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and we are going to show whatever -- whatever people are saying to each other, we're going to show above their heads.

KING: Like in a cartoon?

CAREY: Yes, in a little prop balloon, so you're going to see what they're thinking, or what they're saying, then that will be all the joke. So we have to think of stuff like that all the time, keeps it fresh for us, yes.

KING: Drew Carey is our guest. Back with more phone calls right after this.


KATHY KINNEY, ACTRESS: Mimi Bobeck, I'm here for the interview.

CAREY: Nice to meet you, Mimi. What department are you applying for?

KINNEY: Cosmetics.


CAREY: Hey, great. Sit down. Let's see here, two years in phone sales, dark room assistant, reader for the blind.


KINNEY: I'm also single, if that helps.

CAREY: Not me.




CAREY (singing): I love the Village People, they give me confidence. Even though I'm not too bright, I am rather dense. I have a fat white body and I don't have a tan, but when I put on leather pants I am a "macho man."



KING: To Sidney, Ohio, for Drew Carey, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Drew. How are you doing?

CAREY: Good. How are you?

CALLER: Hey, you were at the Browns home opener last year and I was there, and I just want to know if you're going to be there this year?

CAREY: I -- no, I'm not going to be able to make it.

KING: You grew up a Browns fan?

CAREY: Oh, yes, you grow up in Cleveland...

KING: They won one game last year.

CAREY: Yes -- two.

KING: Two, that's right.


KING: What do you think?

CAREY: They're going to be -- the odds in Vegas when I was there are -- were over and under five for the victories, and I think under five.

KING: You took under five? You bet against them?

CAREY: I didn't bet against them, but I think under five.

KING: You don't think they'll win five?

CAREY: They might win five -- up to five.

KING: Do you think Couch is going to be a good quarterback someday?

CAREY: Yes, he's really good. I was talking to -- you know, it was really great, one of the -- this is the greatest thing about being a celebrity, you get to go to sports events.

KING: Sure, get good seats.

CAREY: Get good seats. Yes, so I sat next to Bernie Kosar during a pre-season game and watched Tim Couch, and he told me exactly what Couch's throwing problems were and what they were working on.

KING: Were you an insane Browns fan in the old days?


KING: Were you part of that group of crazy people?

CAREY: I cried when they lost, you know, playoff games, not regular season games, but playoff games.

KING: The craziest fans in America.

CAREY: Yes, I would agree with that.

KING: By crazy, I mean wild.

CAREY: Yes, I would really get upset when they would lose. And that's one of the reasons I promote Cleveland so much on my show, is you get sick of growing up, you go up to Cleveland and people putting down the Browns and stuff.

KING: Now you've got a good baseball team, got a great baseball park, sold out every game.

CAREY: Yes, nothing worse than somebody who was a loser who is a winner now, because they like to rub it in.


KING: Yes.

Phoenix, Arizona for Drew Carey.

CALLER: Hi, Drew.

CAREY: Hey, how are you doing?

CALLER: For vacation, what do you like to do for fun?

CAREY: Well...

KING: Where you go this summer?

CAREY: Well, I took crew and everything, I took them on a cruise to Honduras and Belize.

KING: Do you like cruising?

CAREY: I never -- I don't get a chance to do it. We rented a -- we've got a cruise ship all out by ourselves.

KING: You're own cruise ship? CAREY: Yes, I spent a lot of money. I'll will never do it again.

KING: What does it cost to rent a cruise ship to go to -- I mean, you take the whole ship.

CAREY: Yes, you take the whole ship. It was a Windstar Cruise, which is real expensive. They're the sailing ships, the big sailing ships, and, man, I hate to say it, but it was really expensive. We set a record -- I'll tell you what, we set a record for the bar bill. They never had a bigger bar bill on the ship. The biggest mistake I was on ship, and everybody so excited to be there, do you believe the biggest cheer I got was not, this is Honduras? I didn't tell them where they going, for one thing; it was a secret. They never knew where they going.

KING: Where'd they take off from?

CAREY: We left from LAX. It was a private jet.

KING: So they didn't know where they were landing.

CAREY: They didn't know where they were landing. And we flew to Cancun.

KING: Took the wives of those who were married.

CAREY: Yes, everybody got to bring who they wanted. We took the -- we spent night in Cancun. They thought it was Cancun. Then the next day we left Cancun and went to the cruise ship, and got on a cruise ship, and they were so excited, you know, this is the secret. Nobody was able to crack me; nobody knew where we were going at all. And then when we got there, I said, OK, everything is going to be paid for, all food, yea!, and I said, even the minibar, and that's when they went crazy.


Even the minibar -- woo, minibar!

KING: Get those snickers.

CAREY: Oh man, Tischer Fader (ph), he was ordering different bottle of wine with every course. He was so happy.


KING: We'll back with our remaining moments, with Drew Carey, get another call or two in as well.

Don't go away.


CAREY: Your neighbor Drew Carey has the Batmobile. Not only that, but look, I caught the joker. (LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Hi, Drew. Cool car. Hey, you haven't introduced me to your new girlfriend.

CAREY: I'll bring her by as soon as I get this out of the car.


MIMI: Think I'd date him for free. This cost him a hundred bucks an hour. He's a freak, I'll tell you, a stone freak.

CAREY: I paid for that, freak face.

By the way, you buckled up.

MIMI: Why?



KING: "The Drew Carey Show" starting its sixth year.

Brawley, California, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Hello, Drew.


KING: I'm calling because I'd like to know if you find there is a big difference between a larger male versus a female larger woman comedian on TV?


KING: Good question.

CAREY: What is...

KING: Difference between larger male and the larger female.

CAREY: Roseanne did OK.

KING: Roseanne did OK. But do we tend to laugh at the larger female more, than with?


KING: You don't think so?

CAREY: No. I think Roseanne proved that. I think funny is funny, and it depends how you approach it. If you're overweight, and your whole act is "look how fat I am," then yes, that's a problem, but... KING: But Toby Fields (ph) was fat and was one of the funniest people who ever lived, Toby Fields. Never -- I mean, the occasional reference to it.

CAREY: Occasional. But yes, she had a very strong act; she was a very strong person.

KING: Very.

CAREY: That's how we get away with jokes about Mimi on the show, because she's very strong, and you know she can take it. That's how Roseanne got away with a lot of her stuff.

KING: The strength of the character.

CAREY: Strength of the character, right.

KING: Misslinburg, Pennsylvania, hello.

CALLER: Hey, Drew, how you doing?

CAREY: Good, how are you?

CALLER: I'm doing good.

I just want to say I really enjoy your shows...

CAREY: Thanks.

CALLER: ... and wonder what's in the future with movies or something like that.

KING: Ah, film career.

CAREY: I have no plans to make a movie. I'd like to, you know, maybe right my own someday, and do my own thing, or if there was something really great come along, I would...

KING: With all these wonderful comedies around, don't you think you could come up with a...

CAREY: I don't get offered anything good, you know.


CAREY: Well, I mean, I do lately. I take that back. I got offered some pretty good stuff. But I'd like to do my own, write my on thing. And I have these other projects I'd like to -- I like to have control; that's my big problem, I like to control over things. So I'm, like, you know, trying to start a Web site and trying all these things...

KING: You've got projects in which you will not appear?



CAREY: Not so far.

KING: Everything that's on the drawing board has you in it.

CAREY: Yes, well, I'm the selling point, you know, for a lot of these things. I would like to do stuff where I'm not -- like the live improve thing is going to be -- mostly everybody is going to watch everybody else now. First that was my...

KING: Do you envision someday producing a show you are not on just for a company to produce it?

CAREY: Yes. Actually, we're doing that right now, doing a -- my -- Bruce Helford, who created "The Drew Carey Show" with me, and my friend Sam Simon, and Dan Patterson (ph), we're all doing a -- creating a pilot for NBC that I'm not the star of. It's about a guy who lives in Hollywood, and I'm going to be -- I'll be one of the neighbors. I'll be allowed to maybe do three shows a year, because I'm on a different network.

KING: Did you ever send a thank-you letter to Johnny Carson?

CAREY: Yes, I have. And every time when I get a chance on TV, I thank him for the career. I mean, it's really amazing the power his show had...

KING: Amazing.

CAREY: ... to launch a comedian. Yes, I don't think there's any show like that now, and he was the only one. When he called you over to that couch, man, that was it. Alan (ph) got over called over to couch. I got called over the couch.

KING: It made you.

CAREY: Yes, Ray Romano went on the week after me, did you know that?

KING: Yes.

CAREY: From "Everybody Loves Raymond." He went on the week after me. I did so well, I got a call -- I went on on Friday, I got a call from him on a Monday, and he called me up on the machine, he left, "Hey, Drew, this is Ray. Thanks for taking all the laughs."


KING: Thanks for being here.

CAREY: OK, thank you very much.

KING: Thanks for being you.

CAREY: You know, pleasure.

KING: Drew Carey, what a guy.

And "The Drew Carey Show" starts its sixth year and the second full season of "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"

We want to say a hearty farewell to Rick Kaplan, a dear friend, who is going on to we hope better things. Great guy leaving CNN. Our loss is somebody's gain.

Sylvia Browne tomorrow night. Jerry Lewis on Friday.

Good night.



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