May 10, 1999
Web posted at: 8:30 p.m. EDT

The following is an edited transcript of a chat conducted with Robert Ricker, Executive Director of the American Shooting Sports Council, held on Wednesday, May 5, 1999.

CNN Moderator: Hello and welcome Bob Ricker. Thanks for joining us today.

Robert Ricker: Hello, glad to be here.

CNN Moderator: Please tell us about yourself and your role at the American Shooting Sports Council?

Robert Ricker: I'm the executive director of ASSC, and I'm in charge of lobbying for the firearms industry, both at the state and local level and at the federal level here in Washington D.C.

Chat Participant: What can we do to educate the U.S. public about guns? Much of the anti-gun hysteria seems to be based upon an absolute lack of knowledge of guns by that crowd.

Robert Ricker: That is true. There is a lot of misinformation about firearms. And we need to not only educate people about guns, but more importantly about the safe use of firearms. And once people understand basic firearm safety, they will clearly see that firearm ownership and use can and is one of the safest sports we have in America.

CNN Moderator: What is the purpose or mission of the American Shooting Sports Council?

Robert Ricker: We are here to protect the firearms industry, and basically guarantee that we have a legal and legislative environment that will permit and promote the lawful use of firearms. We work with Congress, with state legislators and others. We provide them information, technical data, and testimony basically on all facets of the industry from manufacturing down through the sale to the general public at licensed firearm dealers, and places of business. We're basically the voice of the firearms industry.

Chat Participant: How can you call it one of the safest sports in America? When I go skiing I can't kill a room full of people in a couple of minutes.

Robert Ricker: Well, if you follow the basic rules of firearm safety, if you're not a criminal, every day firearms are used by thousands and thousands and thousands of people and no one is ever injured in a safe sporting environment. Unfortunately when criminals get their hand on guns, or when negligent adults allow children or other prohibited persons from getting their hands on guns, firearms can be very very dangerous. The percentage of firearms misused is well below one half of one percent of all guns in America. And we try to work with law enforcement to guarantee and make sure that firearms are used safely. But there are far fewer people killed or injured in accidental shootings than there are people killed or injured skiing every year.

Chat Participant: Where is the constitutional guarantee to firearms as sport? Doesn't the second amendment clearly discuss a well-regulated militia?

Robert Ricker: No, the second Amendment does not discuss a well-regulated militia. It references the militia, which at the time the amendment was written was used to refer to all able-bodied citizens who could potentially be called upon to defend their country. Most legal scholars now agree across the board that the second Amendment grants all Americans the individual right to not only keep but also bear arms. The issue that I think you are referring to has never been squarely dealt with by the U.S. Supreme Court. And there is a case that recently came down from a U.S. district court in Texas which ruled very clearly that our founding fathers intended very clearly that the second amendment apply to all individual citizens of the United States.

Chat Participant: Mr. Riker, guns are a weapon that kill. Do you think that they should be regulated like any other danger to the population?

Robert Ricker: Well, firearms industry is a highly regulated industry. There is a specific bureau of our federal government that has been charged with regulating the manufacture, sale, and distribution of firearms, and that department is known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. There are over 20,000 gun laws on the books right now. Guns are the only consumer product that can only be sold after a person goes through a criminal background check and passes that check. So, in terms of other consumer products, firearms are really more regulated and go under more scrutiny than, let's say, toasters or teddybears.

CNN Moderator: Do you think rapid-fire weapons should be made available for Americans to purchase? What purpose do they serve?

Robert Ricker: Machine guns have been banned in this country since 1934. Semi-automatic firearms of whatever configuration can only fire one round per pull of the trigger. In order to rapidly fire a semi-automatic firearm, the rate of fire is determined by how fast a person can pull the trigger. So, there's really no way that one type of semi-automatic firearm functions differently than another type. So what we have is a situation where your father's hunting rifle functions and fires as fast or as slow as a commercially available Uzi or AK 47. The concept of rapid-fire is really a red herring, or a fantasy, unless you're talking about machine guns, which are illegal.

Chat Participant: Many gun control proponents say that guns are more available now than in the past. Isn't it true?

Robert Ricker: Actually, that's not true. The availability of firearms is more restricted now than it ever has been. And if you look at the number of guns available per capita, there was probably back in the late 1800's early 1900's, more guns available per capita than there are now. And back at that time, there were virtually no restrictions on the sale or acquisition of firearms. What we have today however is a criminal justice problem that our cities have been unable to deal with effectively, so the easy way out is to blame the gun.

CNN Moderator: Isn't it true that the sale of guns has never been as heavily regulated as now?

Robert Ricker: That's true.

Chat Participant: Why are the gun lobbyists trying to kill a law that says nobody can buy more than one gun a month?

Robert Ricker: We think that one gun in the wrong hands is one gun too many. One gun a month laws incorrectly targets the law-abiding citizen. If a person is not going to break the law, and is going to handle firearms safely, what difference should it make how many firearms that person can acquire in a year or a month? It's the criminal we must restrict from ever obtaining a firearm.

Chat Participant: In the three school shooting incidents I can think of in recent memory, guns have been the primary, and in some case sole, weapons of choice. What do you think this says to the people who say, "If we take away guns, they'll just find another weapon"? Do you think it is a coincidence that they all chose guns?

Robert Ricker: Guns are not to blame in incidences like Littleton.

CNN Moderator: Many people blame incidents like the Littleton shootings on the easy access to guns. Do you think guns are at all an issue in these situations?

Robert Ricker: However, since firearms were used, the firearms industry has to reexamine the whole issue of children with guns. There is not one proposal that I have seen from the gun control side that would have prevented what happened in Littleton. There we had two young men on a suicide mission. They made homemade bombs, they illegally acquired firearms, ammunition, and they illegally modified two sporting shotguns to turn them into very effective killing machines. No law would have stopped these two madmen. What we need to do, is find ways in which to protect our schools and our law-abiding citizens against crazed killers like these two young men.

Chat Participant: What if the two Littleton boys got their guns from someone buying 10 guns a month, obviously more than what one needs to hunt with?

Robert Ricker: Well, in Littleton, it wouldn't have mattered how many guns per month were purchased by these two young men or their accomplices or co-conspirators. What we do know is these two young men should never have been allowed access to guns, or explosives, or other items they used to make the bombs.

Chat Participant: Are there any additional barriers to weapons acquisition that you would support?

Robert Ricker: We support the criminal background check prior to purchasing a gun, and that should be extended to cover gun shows. We feel that violent juveniles, juveniles convicted of violent felonies when they are juveniles, should never be allowed to own guns when they become of age.

Chat Participant: What kind of sport does your lobbying aim to protect? Duck hunting, deer hunting, skeet shooting?

Robert Ricker: All facets, all facets of the recreational use of firearms. In addition to the availability and use of firearms of law-abiding citizens for self-protection. Target shooting, formal competition, like the shooting sports that are part of the Olympics. Hunting, and what is commonly referred to as "plinking" and that's what President Clinton described as his first experience with a firearm. That's shooting a tin can off of a fencepost or a rock out in the country. So there is a wide range of recreational or sporting uses of firearms. And sporting firearms include handguns, BB guns or air guns, rifles of various calibers and shotguns.

CNN Moderator: Does that include semi automatic weapons?

Robert Ricker: Yes, there are Olympic competitions and other recognized shooting sports activities that require the use of semi-automatic pistols and rifles.

Chat Participant: Your position of responsible gun use seems contradictory to Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America. Do you feel comfortable having that organization on the same side of the issue?

Robert Ricker: There are many different views on how best to protect our shooting sports, our right to keep and bear arms, and the firearms industry. Mr. Pratt's organization believes in the absolute right of the individual to keep and bear arms. We believe, however, that no Constitutional right is absolute. We clearly know that a person cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and then claim first Amendment protections for that type of activity. We feel a criminal background check and preventing violent felons from owning guns are reasonable balances in our Second Amendment rights.

Chat Participant: How do you handle criticism that the gun lobby is protecting the economic interests of the gunmakers at the cost of lives?

Robert Ricker: Well that is absolutely not true. This industry has nothing to do with why criminals commit crimes with guns. Our industry is highly regulated. We pay millions and millions of dollars each year in federal and state taxes, we employ thousands and thousands of individuals, and we are the mainstay in many states in their state economy. There is no relationship between our sound business practices and the criminals who may misuse the products we may make.

Chat Participant: How do we guarantee the constitutional right to bear arms while protecting society from the gun nuts?

Robert Ricker: The only way to accomplish that is through the enforcement of our current laws. If the law is enforced, we will do two things; we will guarantee the rights of law-abiding citizens, and reduce crime and keep guns out of the wrong hands. This has been done in cities like Richmond, Virginia and Boston, Massachusetts.

Chat Participant: All of the guns that these "two madmen" used were bought at gun shows. Wouldn't regulating gun shows or shutting them down have prevented the tragedy?

Robert Ricker: No. These two "madmen" went to great lengths to acquire explosives. If there were no gun shows, these two men would not have given up their plan, they merely would have found another source for the guns they used. We do need to tighten the rules surrounding gunshows in order to be consistent with the laws that relate to federally licensed firearms dealers. But the answer is not to blame a gun show. The answer lies in being able to deal effectively with troubled teenagers.

Chat Participant: You state that you support background checks and the like for prospective firearm purchasers. The primary objection by many gun owners to background checks is that it provides the government with a list of gun owners, How would you prevent this?

Robert Ricker: This would be prevented by building in certain protections into the law; protections like the destruction of transfer records after a person has cleared the background check.

Chat Participant: Do you get tired of the gun control people?

Robert Ricker: I get tired of the same old failed programs that the gun control crowd seems to push year after year. I don't question their sincerity, however I do question sometimes their motives. In order to solve a very difficult problem like gun violence, we need to concentrate more on preventing criminal behavior than creating more potential crimes. It makes no sense to add law after law after law on top of laws we already have if the criminal does not think twice about committing such crimes as murder, rape, robbery, and arson. Passing new laws to restrict the behavior of law-abiding citizens completely misses the point.

CNN Moderator: What should be done to keep guns out of the hands of children and criminals?

Robert Ricker: Well first, we must educate the public on the proper use and handling of firearms. Secondly, we have to get the criminals off the street. We have to lock them up. And that's the only effective way that we in America have ever been able to effectively deal with gun crime. Richmond, VA has done it, and several other cities have similar projects underway to disarm the criminal. If you look at countries like Switzerland for example, they have very very few gun crimes committed each year. Yet, every Swiss citizen is required to own a firearm. Gun ownership does not equate to crime.

Chat Participant: Don't you think that if guns were unavailable, violent crimes would drop, at least a little?

Robert Ricker: Sure. If we could destroy every gun in America, gun crime would undoubtedly drop. But that's an unrealistic approach. There are over 250 million guns in America. If we started today, to try to ban and confiscate every gun, or to stop the production of every new gun, we would still have a tremendous supply of firearms for at least the next 150 years. So what we need to do, is we need to be able to effectively deal with the criminal.

Chat Participant: Mr. Ricker, do you think that gun makers should be responsible for putting safer guns on the market?

Robert Ricker: We represent those gun companies that are spending research and development dollars to perfect the safest possible firearms. The firearms that are available today have never been safer, and to try and rest gun safety merely on mechanical devices, we believe is a very unwise course of conduct. There are safety devices, gun locks and other products that a gun owner can purchase to safely store firearms, and gun makers are attempting to develop personalized firearms, firearms that can only be fired by the lawful owner. But that technology is still being developed and may be years away. What we need to do now is concentrate on educating the public on gun safety issues. Even if you do not own a firearm, even if you do not like firearms, there are so many guns in America chances are you or your children sometime in the future are going to be confronted or run across a firearm. The American public, both adults and children, should know how to keep themselves safe when a gun is around. For children, they should not touch the firearm, they should leave the room, and they should tell an adult. For adults, they should understand that you treat all firearms as if they were loaded and you never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot, and you never put your finger on the trigger until your ready to shoot and shoot a safe target. Those are simple rules and we need to do a better job on educating the public on those simple rules. Thanks for having me!

CNN Moderator: Thanks, Bob Ricker, for joining us today.