Dr. David Lipscomb: Technology needed to reduce auto accidents

In the past decade, more than 500 people have been killed in automobile collisions with trains and emergency vehicles such as police cars, fire trucks and ambulances. One contributing factor may be that newer, quieter cars, designed to muffle street noise, hamper a driver’s ability to hear warning sirens and train horns.

Dr. David Lipscomb is an audiologist who has testified before the National Transportation Safety Board on railroad crossing accidents.

Chat Moderator: Welcome to the CNN chat room, Dr. David Lipscomb.

Dr. David Lipscomb: Thank you very much. I'm pleased to be here. I hope I can answer any questions adequately.

Chat Moderator: What is the automobile industry prepared to do to address this situation?

Dr. David Lipscomb: I would like to think that the automotive industry, the federal government and the manufacturers of emergency vehicles, locomotives and other such devices that carry warning signals, will work together to develop an alternate means of warning people in modern-day vehicles. The day is past that we can drive a sound into an automobile from considerable distance and expect the driver to be alerted.

Question from Chubby1: Why is this considered such a problem? Most people have their radio or CD player on in a vehicle, anyway.

Dr. David Lipscomb: This is a good question. There are many noise sources inside a vehicle that also oppose perception and alerting of drivers to warning signs. Therefore, drivers, as they approach dangerous circumstances such as railroad crossings and intersections, must be visually alert. They should not, and cannot, depend on their ears and hearing. Also, if vision is affected, individuals should turn down their radio and open a window as they're approaching a crossing or a dangerous intersection.

Question from JrTyD: Can our police force adequately handle these problems -- road rage, not hearing sirens, etc.? Should this be treated as a criminal complaint?

Dr. David Lipscomb: You're asking a legal question of an old PhD professor, so I can't answer that with legal authority. Unfortunately, the only times that police become involved in these circumstances is after there has been a collision.

Question from Rico: While in a car, which should a person depend on more, seeing or hearing?

Dr. David Lipscomb: There is no question that driving or riding in a car is much more a visual exercise, that is, using your eyes. If you depend only on your ears, or primarily on your ears, a warning sound may not reach your ear in order to warn you. I give this example: Deaf people can get a drivers license, blind people cannot. Even though I'm a student of the ear, I realize how limited it is in hearing warning signals when you're inside of a moving, closed vehicle.

Question from Sword: Why aren’t soundproofed cars forbidden?

Dr. David Lipscomb: I think that we are in a culture that uses various products in certain ways. One of the ways in which our culture uses the automobile is to demand a quiet ride. Therefore, to forbid sound treatment of an automobile would be counter-cultural and mostly impossible.

My recommendation is for the various manufacturers and other entities involved in vehicle and emergency and transportation vehicle development to develop a non-acoustic warning means, such as you saw on the program, such as the device on the dash of an experimental car that flashed the warning "train approaching," or a similar type of warning. This is very simple technology, compared to most of the technology that we have in our modern vehicles today.

Question from ToxicDVM: In my area, we have very fast-moving passenger trains. Often, by the time we see or hear the train, it's too late. Are there any tips you can give me to be safe in these situations?

Dr. David Lipscomb: Of course, the obvious is to avoid those crossings that do not have protective gates and lights. The second is, if you do not have protective gates, then when you approach a crossing, stop your car fully, turn off the radio, turn off the heater fan and open, preferably, both windows and listen for the possibility of an approaching horn.

We expect the operators of a locomotive to sound the horn in a timely fashion and, in most cases, that does happen. Therefore, if you approach the crossing assuming that a train is coming, with that type of caution, you will reduce your chances of a collision.

One other thing I might add: One of my colleagues, Dr. Bernard Abrams, makes the point that locomotives, and sometimes big emergency vehicles like fire trucks, are so large that when you look at them as they approach, they don't appear to be moving. So, the driver needs to be alert to this visual problem.

Question from Airtrafficcontroller: Do you think manufacturers could equip cars with the T-CAS system like they do in modern airplanes and airliners?

Dr. David Lipscomb: A system such as that is certainly a possibility. What we need is a warning signal that would be emitted from the emergency vehicle or the locomotive, and a receiver in the car or truck that would pick that up. That type of technology is what was illustrated at the end of the program tonight.

Question from Carl: Do you advocate revoking drivers licenses of deaf people.

Dr. David Lipscomb: Absolutely not. In fact, the statistics that I have seen show that deaf people, as a group, have an amazingly good safety record. I suspect this is true because they know they can't hear the signals. Therefore, they use their eyes almost exclusively; whereas, the driver who has normal or near-normal hearing may assume that if he or she needs to hear a warning signal, he or she will be able to. Unfortunately, that assumption is not well based.

Question from Chubby1: What happened to the old rule at crossing to, "Stop, Look and Listen"?

Dr. David Lipscomb: That's a great question. There's nothing wrong with that saying. It's just as valid today as when we heard that recommendation the first time, probably as young schoolchildren. There are numerous forms of safety markings -- stop signs, gates, yield signs, advance warning signs -- all of which can and should alert the driver to the approaching railroad tracks.

As far as the "listen" part is concerned, simply listening will not increase your power of hearing if the warning signal is covered up by background sound, or does not penetrate the vehicle with sufficient sound level to reach your ear. Therefore, listening doesn't guarantee that you will be alerted.

Question from ToxicDVM: Do you think that cell phones should be banned from cars?

Dr. David Lipscomb: This is a personal opinion, and it is a personal opinion because I am not an expert in driving and the effect of various interferences on driving. I do not agree with the use of cell phones or the use of stereo headphones, both of which, in a moving vehicle, can render the driver functionally deaf or hard of hearing. So, both of these products simply reduce the vigilance that is required of drivers in today's modern society.

Question from Airtrafficcontroller: Why not simply research and install a safer system of railroad crossing gates?

Dr. David Lipscomb: There are many, many activities currently underway in attempts to do just that. I applaud these attempts because it should be clear to anybody in this chat room that I do not believe we should depend on auditory warning systems. Therefore, any means whereby drivers are either prohibited against entering a crossing, or are better warned of the approach of a train, I'm all for it. The government is undertaking a number of studies at this time, and I'm hopeful that some of these studies will bear fruit in increasingly safer crossings and better technology at the railroad crossings.

Chat Moderator: Is it possible to have quiet and safety at the same time?

Dr. David Lipscomb: By and large, quiet is related to safety. For example, if we are in noisy vehicles, and driving long distances, the noise increases our fatigue. So, I say yes, it is possible. I do not advocate that we change the construction of our automobiles and truck cabs and other passenger vehicles. I do advocate exploring new and better ways to get appropriate warnings to the operators of those vehicles.

Chat Moderator: One of our audience members, Gummie, says that by the time an auditory warning is sounded, an accident is seconds or milliseconds away. Is this correct?

Dr. David Lipscomb: I have found that to be the case. In my professional experience, which is approximately 35 years, I have investigated over 200 rail crossing collisions, and dozens of collisions between safety vehicles or emergency vehicles and passenger cars. Often, it is my test results that lead me to conclude that the driver had two seconds or less advance warning, and the question included milliseconds. Yes, I have seen cases that my conclusion was the driver may have heard the collision before hearing the warning signal.

Question from Guitarman: Would quieter engines be safer than soundproof cars?

Dr. David Lipscomb: This is a question that I'm afraid I can't answer from an automobile technology appropriate basis. The automobile manufacturers have for decades striven to develop quieter exhaust systems and quieter running cars.

Tire manufacturers have tried to reduce the noise for two reasons: One reason is to reduce vehicle noise in the community, and the other reason is to reduce the noise in the environment of the operator. So, this is actually being done. You are asking a question on a subject that has been a part of the development and design activity of vehicle and engine manufacturers for several decades now. But, you must realize that the engine is only a small part of a total noise that is in the environment of a vehicle operator.

Chat Moderator: Do you have any final thoughts for us?

Dr. David Lipscomb: I want to thank CNN for discussing this topic. I want to encourage all who are operating vehicles, and who are within the sound of my voice or view of these words, to approach intersections and rail crossings with a new resolve -- that they will assume danger is lurking more than they have, and use their eyes more than they think they can ever use their ears.

Chat Moderator: Thank you for joining us today, Dr. David Lipscomb.

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U.S. auto industry urged to work on 'smart car' technology
July 20, 2000

CNN&Time

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