"palestinians say.. it was neither negotiated nor legal"

But suicide bombings, kidnappings and lynchings carried out by the Palestinians are legal.

Poor Palestinians.

People in glass houses should not throw stones!!

"creating a de facto border"

of what? Of the well known state of palestine?

the west bank was occupied by Jordan for almost 20 years. nobody cared. no palestinian demanded a state from Jordan. no CNN told cry-stories of the oppressed pals who were under brutal oppression by the Jordanians.

then the "bad" israelis came. everybody suddenly woke up and cried for the pals

how hypocritic can you get?????

Israel's aim for building the wall was and continues to be to increase their control over the land they had occupied over the years.
I will leave you with a quote by the Isreali author and peace activist on the wall that she describes as a "system of prisons".
Reinhart says in her book "The Road Map to Nowhere";"The question that had preoccupied the Israeli political and military elites since the seizure of the Palestinian territories in 1967 was how to retain as much of the occupied land as possible - with as few of its Palestinian inhabitants as possible".
More importantly and as a reply to the earlier post, Reinhart mentions
that if the goal of the Israelis "were really to prevent terrorist infiltration into Israel, the wall could just as easily have been built on Israel's 1967 border, leaving Palestinian lands intact".
(may she rest in peace)

Nadeem

you quote Reinhart calling her a peace activist. Of course you would only quote people who agree with you. I can quote hundreds of people, authors, intellectuals, who will say the opposite. Who will list the countless acts of senseless terror comitted by Hams, Fatah, Jihad, Hizbulla and what have you.

The fact is that the number of terror acts decreased exponentially since the fence was built. Less innocent dead. That's all that counts. And neither you nor your false prophet Reinart can change this fact!!!

Perhaps, Palestinians should have built their own walls before to protect themselves from settlers and the Israeli military!

It's funny how the international media calls the Israeli separation fence a "wall", to evoke feelings reminiscent of the Berlin Wall. Of course, anyone who loves democracy would be immediately outraged and that is exactly why the media portrays the fence in this way, without providing the true story about why it is there.

Nobody seems to complain about the border fence being built to separate the US from Mexico. But there is a vast difference between the US fence and the Israeli fence. While the US is building their fence to keep illegal immigrants out, Israel is building their fence to keep Palestinian suicide bombers and other terrorists out. The Israeli fence for the most part has been effective, dramatically reducing the number of Palestinian terrorist attacks perpetrated against Israeli civilians.

The so-called "Palestinians" want a state, even though they are not a distinct people like the Kurds, the Druze, or other groups. There should be no Palestinian state as long as they continue to overwhelmingly support suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks against innocent Israeli civilians. There should also not be a Palestinian state, because they have no legal or historical claim to the land and why should the Palestinians get a state before the Kurds or Druze, who unlike the Palestinians, are both distinct ethnic and religious groups?!

But, thanks to the pressure put on Israel by their own left-wing Jewish extremists, it is inevitable that there will be a Palestinian state. It will be the first time in history that the international community rewards terrorists with their own state.

So, since now a Palestinian state is being forced unfairly on Israel, let's at least make the plan for it fair. Here's an idea for a peace plan:

All the so-called Jewish "settlers" will be removed from their homes in the West Bank and the Palestinians will get a state in the areas of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Then all Palestinians and Israeli Arabs (except for the loyal Druze and Bedouin Arabs who proudly serve in the Israeli army) should be removed from the State of Israel. After all, how can the international community demand that Jews leave their homes in the West Bank and Gaza, places that some have lived for centuries, and then allow Arabs to continue to live in Israel. If the Palestinians are going to get a state, then let's give them one state and not two! As long as Israeli Arabs (who make up between 20-25% of Israel's citizens) are allowed to live in Israel and receive equal rights and special treatment, without fulfilling the obligations of other Israeli citizens (such as performing mandatory military service), then in effect the Arabs are being rewarded with two states and not one. The Arabs already have 22 states, why can't the world let the Jews have their one state. The real "apartheid" is being committed against the Jewish population of Israel, who are being forcibly expelled from their homes.

Unfortunately, many Palestinians have been hurt by the barrier. Double standards by the international community!

Barack Obama, "TEAR THAT WALL DOWN".

Give the Palestinian people back..their freedom and dignity...

to5.23.the so called Jewish settlers?

what else should one call them? thieves,Criminals,occupiers,land grabbers, terrorists,people that dont belong there.pick and choose.every word here fits these outlaws.

in answer to 5.23.the Arabs are not living in Israel they are living in occupied Palestine they were there hundreds of years before the lord of Israel BALFUR,promised the Jews a land in Palestine that Balfur the Lord of Israel does not own Palestine to promise it to the Jews.so the Jews are living and occupying the land of Palestine.why would some one from Russia or eastern Europe or Ethiopia be a citizen of Israel because he is a Jew and the natives of the land can not return to their stolen properties?Israel is an occupying power according to the UN, the same UN that gave Israel life support under condition that Palestinian right should be protected.

to IME producer.it is not a fence or a barrier, it is a WALL higher in some area than the old Berlin WALL.a big difference between a fence and a WALL .Why dont you take some pictures of this WALL and let people decide if it is a fence or a WALL.

to 1.38.we know that Israel kidnapped thousand of Palestinians,compare that with one Israeli kidnapped by Palestinians.we know of several lynching by Jewish settlers and throwing people from roof tops and windows,and shooting children on camera in front of the whole world ,but I never heard of Palestinians lynching Jews.as for suicide bombing which I am against that is the only means they have against Jets and tanks which Israel use against Palestinains almost daily.

Nadeem said on: 3:29
'The question that had preoccupied the Israeli political and military elites since the seizure of the Palestinian territories in 1967 was how to retain as much of the occupied land as possible - with as few of its Palestinian inhabitants as possible".


Well-the Arabs and worldwide records are:
THE FAMOSED 3 ARABS LEADERS- NO-NO- NO

Following the 1967 war Israel goverment expressed its willingness to give up most of the territory it had won in exchange for a guarantee of peace.

The Arab leaders provided their answer from a meeting they held in Khartoum in August 1967, with the famous "three-no's":

Kings and presidents have agreed to unified efforts at international and diplomatic levels to eliminate the consequences war with Israel, but within the limits to which Arab states are committed:
1: NO PEACE with Israel,
2: NO NEGOSIATIONS with Israel,
3: NO RECOGNITION of Israel

Telling lies 1000 times will make people forget that the Arabs are the aggressors determined to "revanshe" by any means?

to 7:45pm
Israel kidnapped thousands of Pals? prove your ridiculous allegation!
Pals did not lynch? Remember the two redserve soldiers who lost their way and were lynched in Ramallah, their mutilated bodies thrown out of the window?
There never ever was any lynching of Pals, nor throwing off roof tops. But Hamas threw people off roof tops when they took power in Gaza. Don't you know the difference?
Shooting children? Heve you ever heard of Shalhevet Paz, a two year old girl shot by a Pal sharpshooter in her father's arms?Of the mother with her five daughters murdered by Pals in their car point blank?
Oh, you forgot? So I remind you!!!!!

Israel uses jets and tanks almost daily? What a laughable unfounded allegation, actually an outright lie.

Many right-wing Israelis disagree with the fence and cooperate with Palestinians in their legal, non-violent protests.The Israelis in this picture were not protesting in defence of the fence but were there to support the army in its struggle against the violent left-wingers who have been deliberately targetting the soldiers and encouraging peaceful Palestinians to cause trouble. The left-wing in Israel do harm to any peace process by stirring-up hatred towards Israel among the Palestinians, the Muslim world and the media.

@12:53; Finally someone has it right! The Israeli left-wing is more of a threat to Israel, than the Arabs. In any other Western country, these left-wing extremists would be locked up for sedition. In Islamic countries they would be executed. However, in Israel they make their way into the media, the courts, and the government. Israel cannot continue to call itself a democracy if it silences the voices of the center and the right. Furthermore, not allowing the Israeli people to directly elect their prime minister and remove unelected activist judges on the Supreme Court undermines Israeli democracy.

to 9.26.it is funny when you remember the name of a Jewish victim,yet you dont know one name of thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli soldiers.it is funny when you talk about kidnapping of one Israeli and you dont remember the thousand of Palestinians kidnapped some of them are children and members of Parliament.it is funny and sad when you only remember a Jewish child victim to terror, yet you forget hundreds of Palestinian children killed by Israeli troops. you might think about Israeli planes and tanks as a joke but to the Palestinians its every day terror when they look at Israeli tanks from their windows every day and looking at Israeli planes above their heads.it might be that you dont consider Palestinian victims as humans compared to Jewish victims,but to Palestinians they are as human as Jews.as for proof of lynching and throwing people from windows and shooting children by Israeli troops and settlers it is all documented you might not like to admit it but the Palestinians will never forget.

@4:33; When the Palestinians stop their support for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other terrorist organizations and stop their suicide bombings, Qassam rocket attacks, and other acts of terror, then they won't see an Israeli jet, tank, or soldier.

this is to show that it is a wall and not a fence....

The most obvious historical parallel to the barrier is the Berlin Wall, which was 96 miles long (155 kilometers). Israel's barrier, still under construction, is expected to reach at least 403 miles in length (650 kilometers). The average height of the Berlin Wall was 11.8 feet (3.6 metres), compared with the maximum* current height of Israel's Wall -- 25 feet (8 metres).

Israel's barrier is therefore planned to be four times as long and in places twice as high as the Berlin Wall.

some one must be blind to see this wall as a fence.

to 5.14.when Israel stop the criminal settlers from stealing Palestinian homes and destroying their lively hood by destroying their orchard,and when the land of the Palestinians are returned according to the international law and when the Palestinians are allowed to return to their historical home of Palestine,then there will be no need to people to fight for their freedom.

The 25-foot wall is built down the middle of the main street in Abu Dis, a town adjacent to and now cut off from East Jerusalem. The main street has been divided in half by the wall. After the wall is completed, many students and teachers will not be able to reach their schools, which lie on either side of the wall. Access to private, UN, and PA clinics, hospitals, and doctors will be impeded.

to 4:33

you still have not proven even a single one of your allegations

it is not the israelis who demand in their charter that the pals disappear, the hamas charter demands that israel disappear

it is not the israelis who never recognized the pals, it is hamas who refuse to recognize israel

it is not israel who sends suicide bombers into gaza or the west bank, justlast week 20 kilos of explosives were found in pal hands, and that was not for building a railroad tunnel!!!!!!

when pals bomb and kill, your twisted logic says israel should sit still and bury their dead quietly.

well, I got news for you, Jews are not Christians like you who turn the other cheek. The last time Jews sat still, the Germans murdered 6 million. Jews will not let that happen again, although your friends Hamas would like nothing better.

this is the true Israel.




By Haim Yacobi, Haaretz,

October 17, 2008


The term "mixed cities" is often perceived as pertaining to an idyllic image of a shared urban space. But it's a misleading idiom, as it hides from the Israeli public the extent of segregation and poverty experienced by Arab citizens living in cities such as Acre, Lod, Haifa and Ramle, where they constitute between 20 and 30 percent of the population.

Mixed cities, shared by Jews and Arabs since the state's establishment, are an exception to the rule. Usually, these two population groups are separated spacially along ethno-national lines. A significant portion of the Arab population in mixed cities within the Green Line (Israel's pre-1967 border) is comprised of internal refugees, who were disinherited from their lands following the establishment of Israel. Not only do they suffer from the trauma of displacement, but they are also socially and economically disenfranchised

9.25, that is the "true Israel" through the eyes of an Haaretz journalist. Haaretz has become a disgraceful newspaper that many Israelis cannot bring themselves to read anymore. Publications and organizations such as these are trying to destroy Israeli society and prefer to see the country disappear altogether.

to 10.57

Dr. Haim Yacobi is a board member of Bimkom: Planners for Planning Rights, and a lecturer in the Department of Politics and Government at Ben-Gurion University.

you can not go on saying that Israel is a democracy when some of its citizens are living this way.it is no different than the old south Africa with iy apartheid policy .

Amazing to see how dysfunctional Israel is...some of these comments demonstrates that.

If this discussion is about the Wall.. A wall that is separating Israelis from the Palestinian people, (an ugly monstrous wall I should add, seen pictures of it online)...then why are we staring at an Israeli flag? i don't get it..

You want global passion? show us pictures of the Wall.

11.22, one of the best indicators of a democratic society is freedom of speech. Unfortunately, that same freedom seems to result in the destruction of the society from which it comes from within and from without. Just because someone sits on a commitee or is a university professor, it doesn't mean their opinions have to be agreed with or that their information is correct.

The Jews of "mixed cities" also tend to be poor, refugees and their descendents from mainly Arab countries, and disadvantaged in society.Many Israelis have suffered a traumatized past but have tried their best, even if not always successful, to get on with life.

bring that wall of hate down.bring that wall of apartheid down.bring that wall of shame down.

When the 'Berlin wall" fell down,everybody thought that the world will not see another wall.
But the tragic events in the Israel-Palestinian Territories, obliged the Israelis to raise another wall.
I hope that I shall be able in my lifetime to see the logic to beat fanatism accompanied by stupidity.

'Berlin wall" was build to keep people looking for freedome inside East Germany.

"Israel barrier" is build to keep terrorist out of Israel, protecting free people from the Arabs militarism and fanatism

10.56 said

"Israel barrier" is build to keep terrorist out of Israel,

it is not true and it is a lie.

Israel built that wall inside Palestinian territories, it is a land grab it cut off Palestinians from their land and some of their family members across the apartheid wall.
Plain and simple it is theft in front of the whole world.I would believe that Israel built that wall of Hate to stop terrorism if it was built on Israeli territories,but building a wall on others territory is not convincing.

@9:25; "Not only do they suffer from the trauma of displacement, but they are also socially and economically disenfranchised."

Please don't quote left-wing activist Haim Yacobi, especially since he has distorted the facts.

1. Jews in Arab countries were not "disinherited" as he puts it, they were forcibly expelled from their homes and these Jewish refugees from Arab countries make up a larger number than the so-called "Palestinian refugees". Additionally, the property of the Jews in Arab countries is worth billions more than any property the Palestinians may have given up when they left on their own will, after the 6 invading Arab countries vowed to destroy Israel in 1948.

2. The Jews expelled from Arab countries were "socially and economically disenfranchised" by Israel's left-wing Labor party, which Mr. Yacobi supports. It was Menachem Begin of the right-wing Likud party who finally gave equal rights to Jews who came from Arab countries. It was also Begin who signed Israel's first peace treaty with an Arab country (Egypt in 1979) and gave back the Sinai Peninsula (3 times the size of Israel) and the oil fields that Israel discovered and developed there.

3. Jews who came from Arab countries and their offspring, now make up the majority of Jews in Israel (thus forming the base of the democracy, effectively eliminating the false allegation that they are currently "socially and economically disenfranchised"). Furthermore, Jews from Middle Eastern backgrounds have achieved success in every aspect of Israeli society and include two presidents, the current Speaker of the Knesset (parliament), several generals, and a former Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Forces to name a few.

"but building a wall on others territory is not convincing. "

On whose territory? The well known Palestinian State that existed for centuries? There is no Palestinian State, there never was one.

In 1948 the Arabs refused the Palestinian state now they want one. Obviously there are no agreed borders to such a future state, thus there can be no wall inside Palstinian territories. These territories were Jordan up to 67, now they are held by Israel until there are negotiated borders as provided for by the Rhodes ceasefire agreemnts which all of you Pal defenders conveniently forget.

So I remind you!!!

10.18 said.

There is no Palestinian State, there never was one.

wow.still in denial when the lord of Israel Balfur promised you a home the home was Palestine.in English that means the home of the Palestinians.

now I challenge you to tell me were was Israel in the last few hundred years show me a map any thing before 1948 that say there was an Israel.

he went on to say.

now they are held by Israel until there are negotiated borders as provided for by the Rhodes ceasefire agreemnts which all of you Pal defenders conveniently forget.

well at least you agreed that these territories does not belong to Israel.instead of the rhodes agreement there is also the Partition of Palestine to an Arab and a Jewish state by the UN, and the right of return for the Palestinians to their homes.

to 10.18 you said.

Obviously there are no agreed borders to such a future Palestinian state.

my question to you is if Israel is a country can you tell me where are the borders of Israel?

just tell me does that include the west bank Including Jerusalem which was not recognized by any country in the world?

to 2:49

return of the refugees?

they refused the state in 48 and now that they have lost 5 wars they started they want to turn back the clock?

like danzig and breslau will revert to the germans and new mexico to the mexicans, that's how the refugees will return to israel

keep dreaming, but realize once and for all: it's only a dream!!!!!

to 12.49.

why is it OK for a Jew to go back to a country that he has no ties to,and it is not OK for a Palestinian to go back to a land that he and his ancestors lived for hundreds of years?

to 9:52

only afetr the germans are allowed to go back to danzig, breslau, koenigsberg and the sudetenland, only after the indians get back manhattan, only after the mexicans get back about one third of the USA that the illegal american settlers occupy.

Only then!!

and of course after they pay restitution to over a million jews who lived in marrocco, iran, iraq, yemen,tunisia and algeria for their lost possessions.

and after they pay restitution for all of the wars they started.

only then!!

get it?

Israel is,has been and will do what ever they want when ever they want no matter what it is legal or not or ethical or not and they dont care whether the whole world is against what they want. and the U.S is always supporting them as if they are holding somthing on them,so this issue is not worthy of taking about or discusing or any thing like that.
Israel is occupying the whole dame palestine,even the so called any thing so what they care if they put this damn wall or, what ever you wanna call it- any place they like.