Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Videoblog: New museum supports biblical creationism
















(Click image to play video)
Posted By Tom Foreman, CNN Correspondent: 2:04 PM ET
  25 Comments
I think it fair to show both sides, as they are at the museum. But, Christians are supposed to be people of extreme faith. So why are they always looking for evidence and proof of their beliefs? I guess their faith isn't that strong after all.
Linda Loma
Posted By Anonymous Linda Loma Delray Beach, Fl. : 2:22 PM ET
Hi Tom,
Religion, like most topics, is not a cut and dried, black or white issue. I think this museum is a great idea. The world in my opinion, has always been shades of gray. We choose to believe or we don't. I choose to have faith, but am well aware that I'll never change the minds of others who think religion and all it represents is useless. So on that note, I'd say the more ideas, the more balance to our little world the better...We are here such a short time and must live our own lives as we see fit. Take Care
Posted By Anonymous Lorie Ann, Buellton, Calif. : 2:39 PM ET
I guess this is a way of getting up close and personal instead of trying to imagine what Eden was like...but I have one question...why are they wearing clothes? They didn't wear clothes until after they were kicked out of Eden. Someone needs to get their facts right!
Posted By Anonymous Cynthia, Covington, Ga. : 2:47 PM ET
I am all for faith and I am all for people believing in what they want to believe. This country was founded on that belief and all of that is great. I believe in the Genesis story, becuase that was the best way at that time that people could explain the beginnings of our universe. The people or person who wrote Genesis did not have the vast array of scientific knowledge that we have today. They explained things in thier terminology for their time. This was good, but I think we have come a long way since then.

I respect Biblical creationism, but I unederstand that their is more, much more to the story. People on the face of things can not explain what they are not there to experience, so the people who wrote Genisis probably did not know about the dinosaurs. They just knew what they could see and did their best to explain it.

The archaeological record and geological record has revealed things that the writer(s) of Genesis could have never known. We can't just discount those things because they were not in Genesis. We only add to the knowledge.

The earth is way more than 2000 years old. This solar system has been around for a very long time, longer than any of us will ever know and really understand. To assert that the earth is only 2000 years old is rather naive. There is so much more to our world than we will ever know and we need to give ourselves the flexibility to discover those things and add to the beautiful writings of Genesis.

Now, about dinosaurs and humans living together, I have a question. If humans and dinosaurs lived side by side, why didn't humans become extinct along with the dinosaurs? What saved the humans?

I have another question, dinosaurs were formidable beasts, much stronger than human beings, if human beings lived side by side with dinosaurs, why didn't the dinosaurs totally dominate the humans? I just can't imagine a human being beating out a Tyrannosaurus Rex, Stegosaurus, or even a Brachiosaurus. These dinsaurs were so tall compared to the tallest human! There is just no way! A Brachiosaurus was 80 feet tall! A six foot human would come up to a Brachiosaurus's ankle. How were human beings going to vie for respect next to dinosaurs like that? Plus many of these creatures lived in herds. Dinosaurs would have definately had the advantage over humans. I just can't believe that dinosaurs and humans lived peacefully together doing primitive things.

Early humans had knives made from stone (arrowheads) and knife like weapons made from mammals like the sabor-toothed tiger and wooly mammoths. Were are these animals in the display? The archaeological record proves this. How could such primitive tools even partially scare dinosaurs away to the point that human beings could even survive? Where are the sabor-toothed tigers and woolly mammoths?

Again, people can believe what they want to, but I have my doubts about dinosaurs and humans living side by side.
I just have my doubts.

Madeliene
Posted By Anonymous Madeliene, Atlanta, Georgia : 3:23 PM ET
re: "why are Adam and Eve shown clothed?"

Maybe there's dolls in the gift shop that let you dress and undress Adam and Eve with different outfits...
Posted By Anonymous Steve - peoria, IL : 3:25 PM ET
Hi Tom,
This is a very interesting topic for holy week. I don't concern myself very much about how and when the universe was created. I don't even worry about proving the existence of God. I will leave that for others to debate.
I am very content to feel God's presence and angels around me and I am very blessed to be alive and able to observe and participate in this world as part of the miracle of creation. Faith, trust, believe and watch for signs. God speaks to each of us on our journey through life. Are we listening?
Posted By Anonymous Betty Ann, Nacogdoches TX : 3:27 PM ET
Dinosaurs and humans living together at the same time, isn't that a cartoon called the Flintstones....yabba dabba doo. But imagine the ribs.....mmmmmm Brontosaur ribs (must be getting close to dinner time ;))
Posted By Anonymous Em, Toronto, Ontario, Canada : 3:44 PM ET
Man wasn't alive at the time of the great beasts. This is not a truth and should not be in a museum. We go there like a library to check for truth or facts and knowledge. Let's just say we evoleved and let it go. We don't use the "Flintsotones" as a reference.....
Posted By Anonymous Art Ft, Bragg, CA : 4:04 PM ET
Dear Tom,

The Biblical Creationism museum seems to be taking a page right out of the book of Dan Brown, whose "Da Vinci Code" some of these same Christians got into such an uproar about. Like Mr. Brown, this museum has created a story by mixing facts and "improvable information," however, unlike Mr. Brown they are trying to pass it off as fact.

In the video you did not mention any facts that were used to back up the existence of this "fantasy Eden." To my knowledge, there have never been any human and dinosaur remains of the same age found together or separately anywhere. Have the museum's creators conveniently left out this information? How do they account for this discrepancy? In my opinion, this is the linchpin.

I agree with Linda from Delray Beach, it appears as though the faith of these particular Christians is not as strong as they purport it to be if they believe they must go to such extremes. In regards to the clothing worn by the humans, it is nothing more than a demonstration of the same prudish attitude used by the attackers of "My Sweet Lord" last week.

I look forward to tonight's program.

Jo Ann
Posted By Anonymous Jo Ann Matese, North Royalton, Ohio : 4:04 PM ET
I must respond to Madeliene's comments above. It is interesting to me that she begins by saying, "I believe in the Genesis story, because that was the best way at that time that people could explain the beginnings of our universe," only then to take the next several paragraphs to explain how the Genesis account could not possibly be true, since the writer lacked so much of the information that we now have. Does she really "believe in the Genesis story?" Or, does she simply believe that the one who wrote Genesis believed that what they were writing was true - though now (according to her) we have much more information to prove that the writer was simply naieve and ill-informed?

This kind of double-speak continues in the next paragraph which begins, "I respect Biblical creationism, but I understand that there is more, much more to the story." Granted, Madeliene could mean that "Biblical creationism" - however she might define it - is true, so far as it goes. However, there really is no middle ground in this discussion. Truly "Biblical" creationism holds that an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God divinely created all that exists from nothing. He alone is necessary (that is, dependent on nothing), all else is contingent (that is, coming from, and depending upon Him for the initiation of, and continued, existence). Either this proposition is true or it is not. It cannot be said to be true, if it must be modified by "updated" information that contradicts what the Bible proclaims.

This is the point at which my two previous paragraphs come together. The Bible declares itself to be divine revelation. This means that what is written is special relevation from God, not simply the musings about the way the world is by men who had nothing better to do. If the Bible is what it claims to be, divine revelation, then the contents must be, like the One who revealed it, without error. It either proclaims truth or error. If it proclaims truth, I should believe it all. If it proclaims error, I should disregard it, not wanting to be led astray by its naievete at best, or error at worst.

I believe the Bible is exactly what it declares itself to be, the divinely revealed, special relevation of God - completely true in all that it purports, just as God, in His nature and character is truth. Therefore, I believe, really believe, in Biblical creationism.

There is no room to "believe" the Bible, while asserting that the Bible is lacking at best and false (even if in just a few points) at worst.

Finally, as for the "age of the earth." I know of no one who claims that the earth is only 2000 years old. Even "Young-earth" creationists believe that the earth is at least 6000 years old. I am not sure where such an idea came from. But, I know of no one who holds it.
Posted By Anonymous Randall, Raleigh, NC : 4:11 PM ET
Wow. That's all I can say.

Carbon dating, cosmogenic isotopes, half-lives of the elements...come on, the earth is a few billion years old at least. If dinosaurs and humans lived side by side, I think Spielberg would get a huge kick out of it.
Posted By Anonymous AC, St. Paul, MN : 4:22 PM ET
I think the only good purpose of this museum would be to show our generation what our ancestors believed and passed on to us. But science is explaining little by little what used to be unknown. We cannot keep living with myth in our lives. Religion will be part of a Museum. Maybe in hundreds or thousands of years, this is a fact. Call me a profet if you will :)
Posted By Anonymous Chico, LA, California : 4:25 PM ET
I thought it was the Prez and his cronies. Anyhow,as a believer,it would be interesting to see if there was a way to bridge the gap between Creationism and Darwinism. As it is, social Darwinism is alive & well in D.C. politics and otherwise.
Posted By Anonymous Carol B., Frederick, MD : 6:00 PM ET
Tom - Rather than engage in debate in the open, sectarians such as the people behind this museum are choosing to form their own little intellectual enclaves where their beliefs aren't challenged.

This bears a startling resemblance to the way the Adminstration is treating its foreign and environmental policies. Shun facts that don't support the policy, or actively warp them to suit your own version of reality. We've seen how well that's worked out.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. However, they're not entitled to their own facts. Withdrawing from the wider community to create and maintain your own version of reality is one of the warning signs that you are dealing with a cult.
Posted By Anonymous Arachnae, Sterling VA : 6:46 PM ET
Tom,

You said in your commentary, you said something like 'Christians are using science to back up their point of view', or something along those lines.

Let's be crystal clear about this. They are not doing science. They start with a foregone conclusion and then work the evidence to fit that conclusion. That is NOT science and not how real scientists operate! Real scientist make hypotheses, examine data and then make (tentative) conclusions based on that data.

Please, please - get educated about science!!!

Thanks.
Posted By Anonymous John Ireland, Anapolis, Maryland : 7:05 PM ET
Religious fanatacism - a danger abroad, a danger at home.
Posted By Anonymous Bill W, Coatesville, PA : 7:58 PM ET
Dear Randall,
I do not believe that I have engaged in any kind of double speak. As a matter of fact, I do not believe that I contradicted myself at all. What I simply said was that the person or persons who wrote Genesis, could not have possibly known that dinosaurs existed or were even aware that there even was a geological record which would prove that the earth is millions of years old. I am not saying that I believe the story of Genesis and then not believe the story of Genesis.
I believe that whomever wrote Genesis wrote to the truth of their understanding at that time. I do not see how that takes away from God's supremacy over all. All I am saying is that we have to take into account that we know more about the earth than the people did when Genesis was written.

I know that there are many people who believe the Bible literally. I respect those people who do. Our country was founded on freedom of religion and freedom of religious beliefs, but I cannot discount the fact we do know more about the Earth than what Genesis says. We should not just forget about the new information because it is not in Genesis.

About the age of the earth, I have heard that most conservatives put the age at 2000 years. You have said that the earth is 6000 years old. Okay, maybe the conservatives that I heard the information from was wrong, maybe even possibly I heard them wrong, but in any respect, Randall, the earth is more than 6000 years old as well. To be honest with you, we don't know and will never know how old the earth actually is. It is just hard to fathom, that all we know about the earth happened in 6000 years. It would seem that we would witness much more geological change if this were true.

I am highly doubtful that dinosaurs and humans lived together side by side as the video clip showed. Honestly, humans and dinosaurs could not have realistically lived together. If they had, dinosaurs would have killed humans easily. Also, what ever made the dinosaurs extinct would have also eradicated humans too because humans are weaker than most dinosaurs.

Also, Randall, I never said that anything in the Bible was false. That is a gross misinterpretation of what I posted. You are saying that I said that things in the Bible are false because I don't look at all the stories in the Bible literally. Most stories in the Bible can help you in live and teach you to be a better human being and live an abundant life. Jesus Christ even shows humans how to live a better life, he died so that we could live a better life.

How many people follow the life that Jesus followed? How many people go and help the poor, feed the hungry, attend to the sick, and love thy neighbor as Jesus as taught. I have worked with the poor for most of my life and I have not seen many people following that example, except for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I am not going to get mired down in YOUR damnation, Randall, because I choose to THINK. I think that I follow the life that Jesus wants me to follow, And my God will determine my fate, not literal Bible believers.

Madeliene
Posted By Anonymous Madeliene, Atlanta, Georgia : 8:02 PM ET
In the 1600s, the Copernican theory that the Earth goes around the Sun was taught side by side with the Ptolemaic theory that the Sun goes around the Earth. It was acceptible to teach that the Earth goes around the Sun, so long as you didn't claim it was a fact.

The poet John Milton, in his epic Paradise Lost, attacked Galileo for being so presumptuous as to claim to know that the Earth goes around the Sun. We humans can't know that, obviously. It's all a matter of faith.

Martin Luther and John Calvin accused Galileo of heresy, and the Inquisition condemed him to life imprisonment for contradicting the faith. Since claiming the Earth goes around the Sun contradicts Joshua 10:14, Ecclesiates 1:5, and Psalm 93:1 (among other verses), obviously our faith demands that we reject such a notion as the Earth going around the Sun.

The Catholics and Protestants rejecting Galileo were just as ignorant, just as deluded, just as dishonest, and just as insane as today's creationists. Their claim--that the physical facts of the world are just a matter of faith--is and always will be complete nonsense.

It is NOT a matter of faith whether the Earth goes around the Sun or not. It's a physical fact. Physical facts are discovered by investigation and experiment, not faith.

It doesn't matter what your faith is. Evolution is a physical fact confirmed by very thorough investigation. Have faith that the Moon is made of green cheese if you want to--it won't change the composition of the Moon. The same goes for heliocentricity, gravity, evolution, the Big Bang, and other facts of the world.

The namby-pamby relativism exhibited by Tom Foreman in his report is nothing short of an endorsement of the insane belief that the physical facts of nature are just whatever the hell you want them to be, that we can just make up our own version of reality and that's just as good as any other version. Treating creationism like it's a legitimate viewpoint worth considering is the equivalent of saying there's no such thing as reality. You wanna have faith that diseases are caused by demons, lightning is Zeus throwing fire at us and the Sun goes around the Earth? Sure, go ahead! Reality be damned!
Posted By Anonymous Wes, Stillwater, OK : 8:23 PM ET
Re: Linda
We have to show our children what is real. Not because we are looking for answers. We have the answers in the bible. We show them becuase the public school system will not. They will only show one side of the story. Answer this Linda. Why are you so scared to look at the other side of the story? I live with it every day but don't press for law suits because they won't teach my beliefs to my children. Why are non-believers so threatend that they imediatley call an attorney to have any trace of god removed. What are you scared of? Just wait Linda and when the rapture comes you can just sit and watch and unbelieve. Until then I'll sit back believe and not feel threatend or fearful of the future.
Posted By Anonymous Micahel, Ft Worth, Tx : 11:25 PM ET
Hi all...

I think it is not possible to 'parse' the word of God (the Bible) nor the person of Jesus. They either ARE or ARE NOT what they claim to be....not much middle ground.

I believe one should consider the following verses:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 10:27 (Read all of John 10)
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Rev.22: 18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

If these 4 verses make sense...or not, it really ends a lot of the debate I have been reading here.

Regarding the age of the earth...I pose this challenge to anyone reading and willing to answer (I am a scientist too): what is the 'measurement uncertainty' of the best dating methods, and what are the means of validating the calibration of these measurements? I think this may help diffuse some of the debate on age of the earth.

take care all...
Posted By Anonymous Mark, Newtown PA : 11:45 PM ET
It sounds to me like Ken Ham is on to a nice little earner there. Funny, I don't remember anything in the Bible about Christ or the disciples opening museums or theme parks or vast megachurches complete with plasma screens, state-of-the-art sound systems and shopping malls or buying themselves holiday homes and private jets.
Posted By Anonymous Ian, Fargo, ND : 12:42 AM ET
For the record, this debate will never be ended so long as either side is soooo unwilling to let go of their ego and compromise. It took me 15 minutes, 5 years ago, at the age of 13 to figure out the most plausible explanation for evolution:

God created evolution as a divine mechanism of change. The Book of Genesis is not literal! Evolution is God's constant work at hand in history, letting life on the planet adapt to the ever-changing world as we, the beings of Earth, interact with our surroundings.
Posted By Anonymous Ian, Lawrence, Kansas : 1:28 AM ET
Interesting that the Christian advocates on the program are still using the "teach the controversy" doctrine advocated by those behing the intelligent design movement. Amazing they never stop to question the fact that people believe whatever religious tradition they are raised with, for the most part. Religion seems to fill a human need. Science shows that prayer-like practices heal with or without Christianity or a "god." In fact, Buddhist "prayer" was found to be the most effective of those investigated. Why are we not all flocking to Buddhism in the U.S. if its "prayer is the most effective?
Posted By Anonymous Jane, Washington, DC : 1:43 AM ET
Are we supposed to believe that Dinosaurs and humans living together at the same time, and the reason that Dinosaurs became extinct was because they could not fit on Noah's Arc???

Sorry but that just seems far fetched. Look at it this way. According to the Bible, God commanded Noah to gather two of EVERY animal (not all except for a few that were too big. So Noah decided that Dinosaurs were expendable because they were too big to fit in his Arc???
So, Noah intentionally disobeyed God and let the Dinosaurs die?

Sorry but that is a very far stretch for anyone to believe. A far simpler explanation is that there were no Dinosaurs.
Posted By Anonymous Tom, Knoxville, Iowa : 2:15 AM ET
This is absolutely absurd. I am literally speechless. I feel nauseous just thinking about children attending this museum and mistakenly considering it an educational facility. I urge people to learn more about evolutionary biology and you will see that most if not all of life's questions can be easily explained!
Posted By Anonymous Allison, Aiken SC : 9:40 AM ET
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