ad info




TIME Asia
TIME Asia Home
Current Issue
Magazine Archive
Asia Buzz
Travel Watch
Web Features
  Entertainment
  Photo Essays

Subscribe to TIME
Customer Services
About Us
Write to TIME Asia

TIME.com
TIME Canada
TIME Europe
TIME Pacific
TIME Digital
Asiaweek
Latest CNN News

Young China
Olympics 2000
On The Road

 ASIAWEEK.COM
 CNN.COM
  east asia
  southeast asia
  south asia
  central asia
  australasia
 BUSINESS
 SPORTS
 SHOWBIZ
 ASIA WEATHER
 ASIA TRAVEL


Other News
From TIME Asia

Culture on Demand: Black is Beautiful
The American Express black card is the ultimate status symbol

Asia Buzz: Should the Net Be Free?
Web heads want it all -- for nothing

JAPAN: Failed Revolution
Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori clings to power as dissidents in his party finally decide not to back a no-confidence motion

Cover: Endgame?
After Florida's controversial ballot recount, Bush holds a 537-vote lead in the state, which could give him the election

TIME Digest
FORTUNE.com
FORTUNE China
MONEY.com

TIME Asia Services
Subscribe
Subscribe to TIME! Get up to 3 MONTHS FREE!

Bookmark TIME
TIME Media Kit
Recent awards

TIME AsiaAsiaweekAsia Now TIME Asia story

FEBRUARY 14, 2000 VOL. 155 NO. 6

W E B - O N L Y   I N T E R V I E W
'Wiranto Needs to Accept Some Responsibility'
Interview with Albert Hasibuan, head of Jakarta's inquiry into human-rights abuses in East Timor

From his office in central Jakarta, Albert Hasibuan, the chairman of the Commission Investigating Human Rights Violations in East Timor, spoke with TIME reporter Jason Tedjasukmana on Feb. 2 about the commission's three-month investigation into alleged atrocities committed in East Timor. The report, released Jan. 31, holds at least 30 military officers, district chiefs and militia leaders responsible for "gross violations of human rights." Excerpts from the interview:

    ALSO IN TIME
Cover: Getting Interesting
With his stunning, overwhelming victory in the New Hampshire primary, John McCain suddenly becomes a credible contender for the Republican nomination

Indonesia: Showdown
In a bid to prove that he's in charge, President Wahid demands that former army chief Wiranto leave his cabinet post

India: Hardened Hearts
Delhi's feeble response to the Orissa cyclone disaster highlights a national apathy that worries many citizens

India: Crash Landing
Even a Calcutta court verdict can't answer vexing questions about a bizarre 1995 gunrunning case

Line of Fire: Open to Criticism
Sin-ming Shaw says loudly scolding Beijing can be effective

WEB-ONLY EXCLUSIVES
'Gandhi Was a Hypocrite'
In this online exclusive interview, Gopal Godse, co-conspirator in Gandhi's assassination and brother of the assassin, looks back in anger--and without regret

'Wiranto Needs to Accept Some Responsibility'
Online-only interview with Albert Hasibuan, head of Jakarta's inquiry into human-rights abuses in East Timor

  RELATED STORIES
TIME
Agus Wirahadikusuma: 'I Don't See a Coup Scenario'
Online Exclusive: A leading reformer in Indonesia's military talks about President Wahid's relationship with the army and coup rumors

Indonesia: Calm Before the Storm
Religious differences have turned the Moluccas into a battlefield, filled with hate and the prospect of more violence

Indonesia: Chaos in the Islands
As clashes between Muslims and Christians escalate in the far-flung Moluccas, many wonder if anyone's in charge in Jakarta

Photo Essay
The streets of Jakarta in the hours leading up to the selection of Wahid and Megawati

CNN
Breaking news from Southeast Asia

ASIAWEEK
Washington on Wahid
America's top man on East Asia applauds Indonesia's president

TIME: The military's legal defense team says the inquiry does not have the evidence or facts to support your conclusions.
Hasibuan: We have plenty of proof. The proof is primarily in the form of testimonies and documents and clearly show links between the military and the militias in the provision of arms, payments, logistics and leadership. Our proof is to be used as a starting point for the Attorney General's Office.

TIME: The commission is also being accused of violating the rights of those implicated in the report by prematurely publishing their names. Are you prepared for the legal consequences?
Hasibuan: Of course we are prepared. We have not broken any laws and the naming of names is clearly legal and in accordance with Indonesia's civil and criminal codes. We had to be accountable to the public and they have a right to know who and what was responsible. People are tired of hearing about "provocateurs" and "third parties." That said, we have not accused those named of anything and we assume they are innocent until proven guilty.

TIME: Why did the report ultimately hold General Wiranto responsible for what happened after East Timor's referendum?
Hasibuan: We stopped at Wiranto because he was in charge of security in East Timor at the time. Wiranto needs to accept some responsibility because he did not take effective steps to stop the violence. He claimed that "psychological constraints" prevented him from taking action, but I don't think that is a term that exists in the military's dictionary.

TIME: Why not go all the way to the top?
Hasibuan: (Former President) Habibie had been named by a number of those who were disappointed with his decision to offer the referendum option, but we did not have proof that his decision resulted in acts of destruction or that he violated any human rights. If his name comes up in court, however, he could be implicated.

TIME: There is some controversy as to where the commission's allegations will be heard. Where will trials take place?
Hasibuan: A Human Rights Court is still being discussed. If that idea is not accepted for technical reasons--such as whether the court will have the "retroactive" right to hear violations that occurred in the past--we could form a Cambodia-style court where you have a national court with international judges.

TIME: How critical is it that the report be followed up seriously?
Hasibuan: It is very important that we see some follow-up action. If we take the wrong step, no one will believe in us. If we fail this time, faith in our ability to uphold the law will be lost at home and overseas. These people must be prosecuted. If not, the whole thing will look like a game.

TIME: Did President Abdurrahman Wahid assist the commission in any way?
Hasibuan: The President allowed us to question ministers and certain military officers. He supported us but was not involved in the investigation.

TIME: Is this report an attack on the military?
Hasibuan: Not at all. The figure of Wiranto is seen as representing TNI [the Indonesian Military] but we are not going after TNI. He is not TNI, only part of it.

TIME: Should the report's conclusions be viewed as a beginning to reducing the power of the military in Indonesia?
Hasibuan: The military's tremendous power is being returned to where it belongs--as a professional body that secures the country against external threats and not as a political player. If their role is not changed civil society will never take root and the military's dual function [in politics and security] will never be curtailed.

Write to TIME at mail@web.timeasia.com

This edition's table of contents
TIME Asia home


AsiaNow


Quick Scroll: More stories from TIME, Asiaweek and CNN

   LATEST HEADLINES:

WASHINGTON
U.S. secretary of state says China should be 'tolerant'

MANILA
Philippine government denies Estrada's claim to presidency

ALLAHABAD
Faith, madness, magic mix at sacred Hindu festival

COLOMBO
Land mine explosion kills 11 Sri Lankan soldiers

TOKYO
Japan claims StarLink found in U.S. corn sample

BANGKOK
Thai party announces first coalition partner



TIME:

COVER: President Joseph Estrada gives in to the chanting crowds on the streets of Manila and agrees to make room for his Vice President

THAILAND: Twin teenage warriors turn themselves in to Bangkok officials

CHINA: Despite official vilification, hip Chinese dig Lamaist culture

PHOTO ESSAY: Estrada Calls Snap Election

WEB-ONLY INTERVIEW: Jimmy Lai on feeling lucky -- and why he's committed to the island state



ASIAWEEK:

COVER: The DoCoMo generation - Japan's leading mobile phone company goes global

Bandwidth Boom: Racing to wire - how underseas cable systems may yet fall short

TAIWAN: Party intrigues add to Chen Shui-bian's woes

JAPAN: Japan's ruling party crushes a rebel at a cost

SINGAPORE: Singaporeans need to have more babies. But success breeds selfishness


Launch CNN's Desktop Ticker and get the latest news, delivered right on your desktop!

Today on CNN
 Search

Back to the top   © 2000 Time Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines.