Jump to the start of individual depositions: Lewinsky, Jordan, Blumenthal

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A. I don't recall if we talked about that article specifically.

Q. Do you recall on June 25th testifying before the grand jury, and I'm quoting, "We were speaking about the story that appeared that morning"?

A. Right. We were--we were speaking about that story, but I don't know if we referred to The Post.

Q. Thank you. You are familiar with The Washington Post story that broke that day?

A. I am.

Q. That story essentially stated that the Office of Independent Counsel was investigating whether the President made false statements about his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky in the Jones case, correct, to the best of your recollection?

A. If you could repeat that?

Q. Sure. The story stated that the Office of Independent Counsel was investigating whether the President made false statements about his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky in the Jones case.

A. Right.

Q. And also that the Office of Independent Counsel was investigating whether the President obstructed justice in the Jones case. Is that your best recollection of what that story was about?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you end up speaking to the President on that specific date?

A. I don't remember exactly whether he had summoned me or whether I had asked to speak him--to him.

Q. And I realize, by the way, I--just so you know, I'm not trying to trick you or anything. I realize this is a year later--

A. Right.

Q. --and your testimony was many months ago, and so if I invite your attention to previous grand jury testimony to refresh your recollection, I don't want you to feel that in any way I'm trying to imply that you're not being candid in your testimony.

With that, if I may invite your--your attention to the June 4th grand jury testimony on page 47, lines 5 through 6.

[Witness perusing document.]

BY MR. ROGAN:

Q. Let me see if this helps to refresh your recollection. You said, "It was about a week before the State of the Union speech."

A. I see.

Q. "I was in my office, and the President asked me to come to his office."

Does that help to refresh your recollection?

A. Yes.

Q. And so you now remember that the President asked to speak with you?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you go to the Oval Office?

A. Yes.

Q. During that conversation, were you alone with the President?

A. I was.

Q. Do you remember if the door was closed?

A. It was.

Q. When you met with the President, did you relate to him a conversation you had with the First Lady earlier that day?

A. I did.

Q. What did you tell the President the First Lady told you earlier that day?

A. I believe that I told him that the First Lady had called me earlier in the day, and in the light of the story in The Post had told me that the President had helped troubled people in the past and that he had done it many times and that he was a compassionate person and that he helped people also out of his religious conviction and that this was part of--part of his nature.

Q. And did she also tell you that one of the other reasons he helped people was out of his personal temperament?

A. Yes. That's what I mean by that.

Q. And the First Lady also at least shared with you her opinion that he was being attacked for political motives?

MR. McDANIEL: Can I get a clarification, Senator--Senator Specter? The earlier question, I thought, had been what Mr. Blumenthal had relayed to the President had been said by the First Lady.

MR. ROGAN: That's correct.

MR. McDANIEL: And now the questions are back--it seems to me have moved to another topic--

MR. ROGAN: No. That's--

MR. McDANIEL: --which is what--

MR. ROGAN: I'm--

MR. McDANIEL: --did the First Lady say.

MR. ROGAN: And I thank--I thank the gentleman for that clarification. I'm specifically asking what the witness relayed to the President respecting his conversation with-- his earlier conversation with the First Lady.

MR. McDANIEL: Thank you. Do you understand that, what he said?

THE WITNESS: I understand the distinction, and I don't--

BY MR. ROGAN:

Q. I'll restate the question, if that would help.

A. Please.

Q. Do you remember telling the President that the First Lady said to you that she felt that with--in reference to this story that he was being attacked for political motives?

A. I remember her saying that to me, yes.

Q. And you relayed that to the President?

A. I'm not sure I relayed that to the President. I may have just relayed the gist of the conversation to him. I don't-- I'm not sure whether I relayed the entire conversation.

MR. ROGAN: Inviting the Senators' and counsel's attention to the June 4th, 1998, testimony of Mr. Blumenthal, page 47, beginning at line 5.

BY MR. ROGAN:

Q. Mr. Blumenthal, let me just read a passage to you and tell me if this helps to refresh your memory.

A. Mm-hmm.

MR. ROGAN: Do you have that, Lanny? MR. BREUER: Yes, I do. Thank you.

BY MR. ROGAN:

Q. Reading at line--at line 5, "I was in my office, and the President asked me to come to the Oval Office. I was seeing him frequently in this period about the State of the Union and Blair's visit"--and I--that was Prime Minister Tony Blair, as an aside, correct?

A. That's right.

Q. Thank you.

And then again, reading at line 7, "So I went up to the Oval Office and I began the discussion, and I said that I had received--that I had spoken to the First Lady that day in the afternoon about the story that had broke in the morning, and I related to the President my conversation with the First Lady and the conversation went as follows. The First Lady said that she was distressed that the President was being attacked, in her view, for political motives for his ministry of a troubled person. She said that the President ministers to troubled people all the time," and then it goes on to--

A. Right.

Q. --relate the substance of the answer you just gave. Does that help to refresh your recollection with respect to what you told the President, the First Lady had said earlier?

A. Yes.

Q. Thank you.

And do you now remember that the First Lady had indicated to you that she felt the President was being attacked for political motives?

A. Well, I remember she said that to me.

Q. And just getting us back on track, a few moments ago, I think you--you shared with us that the First Lady said that the President helped troubled people and he had done it many times in the past.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember testifying before the grand jury on that subject, saying that the First Lady said he has done this dozens, if not hundreds, of times with people--

A. Yes.

Q. --with troubled people?

A. I recall that.

Q. After you related the conversation that you had with the First Lady to the President, what do you remember saying to the President next about the subject of Monica Lewinsky?

A. Well, I recall telling him that I understood he felt that way, and that he did help people, but that he should stop trying to help troubled people personally; that troubled people are troubled and that they can get you in a lot of messes and that you had to cut yourself off from it and you just had to do it. That's what I recall saying to him.

Q. Do you also remember in that conversation saying to him, "You really need to not do that at this point, that you can't get near anybody who is even remotely crazy. You're President"?

A. Yes. I think that was a little later in the conversation, but I do recall saying that.

Q. When you told the President that he should avoid contact with troubled people, what did the President say to you in response?

A. I'm trying to remember the sequence of it. He--he said that was very difficult for him. He said he--he felt a need to help troubled people, and it was hard for him to--to cut himself off from doing that.

Q. Do you remember him saying specifically, "It's very difficult for me to do that, given how I am. I want to help people"?

A. I recall--I recall that.

Q. And when the President referred to trying to help people, did you understand him in that conversation to be referring to Monica Lewinsky?

A. I think it included Monica Lewinsky, but also many others.

Q. Right, but it was your understanding that he was all--he was specifically referring to Monica Lewinsky in that list of people that he tried to help?

A. I believe that--that was implied.

Q. Do you remember being asked that question before the grand jury and giving the answer, "I understood that"?

A. If you could point it out to me, I'd be happy to see it.

Q. Certainly.

MR. ROGAN: Inviting the Senators' and counsel's attention to the June 25th, 1998, grand jury, page 5, I believe it's at lines 6 through 8. [Witness perusing document.]

THE WITNESS: Yes, I see that. Thank you.

BY MR. ROGAN:

Q. You recall that now?

A. Yes.

Q. Thank you.

Mr. Blumenthal, did the President then relate a conversation he had with Dick Morris to you?

A. He did.

Q. What was the substance of that conversation, as the President related it to you?

A. He said that he had spoken to Dick Morris earlier that day, and that Dick Morris had told him that if Nixon, Richard Nixon, had given a nationally televised speech at the beginning of the Watergate affair, acknowledging everything he had done wrong, he may well have survived it, and that was the conversation that Dick Morris--that's what Dick Morris said to the President.

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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