Jump to the start of individual depositions: Lewinsky, Jordan, Blumenthal

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Mr. Jordan knew it, the President knew it, or something of that nature?

A. I think I testified to something similar to that. I felt that, I guess, that Mr. Jordan might have had the President's best interest at heart and my best interest at heart, so that that was sort of maybe a--some sort of a blessing.

Q. I think, to some extent, what you--what you had said was getting Mr. Jordan's approval was basically the same thing as getting the President's approval. Would you agree with that?

A. Yeah. I believe that--yes, I believe that's how I testified to it.

Q. The fact that you assume that Mr. Jordan was in contact with the President--and I believe the evidence would support that through his own testimony that he had talked to the President about the signed affidavit and that he had kept the President updated on the subpoena issue and the job search--

A. Sir, I'm not sure that I knew he was having contact with the President about this. I--I think what I said was that I felt that it was getting his approval. It didn't necessarily mean that I felt he was going to get a direct approval from the President. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Q. Oh, that's fine. At any time you need to clarify a point, please--please feel free to do so. Did--did--did you have any indication from Mr. Jordan that he--when he discussed the signed affidavit with the President, they were discussing some of the contents of the affidavit? Did you have--

A. Before I signed it or--

Q. No; during the drafting stage.

A. No, absolutely not--either/or. I didn't. No, I did not.

Q. Now, the changes that you had proposed, did Mr. Jordan agree to those changes?

A. I believe so.

Q. And then you somehow reported those changes back to Mr. Carter or to someone else?

A. No. I believe I spoke with Mr. Carter the next morning, before I went in to see him, and that's when I--I believe that's--I dictated the changes.

Q. Okay. Mr. Jordan did not relay the changes to Mr. Carter--you did?

A. I know I relayed the changes, these changes to Mr. Carter.

Q. Specifically, the concerns that you had about--about the draft, what did they include, the changes?

A. I think one of the--I think what concerned me--and I believe I've testified to this--was--was in Number 6. Even just mentioning that I might have been alone with the President, I was concerned that that would give the Jones people enough ammunition to want to talk to me, to think, oh, well, maybe if she was alone with him that--that he propositioned me or something like that, because I hadn't--of course, I mean, you remember that at this point, I had no idea the amount of knowledge they had about the relationship. So--

Q. Did--Mr. Carter, I assume, made those changes, and then you subsequently signed the affidavit?

A. We worked on it in his office, and then, yes, I signed the affidavit.

Q. Is this the same day--

A. Yes.

Q. --at this point?

A. This was the 7th?

Q. Yes.

A. Correct.

Q. Did--did you take the signed--or a copy of the signed affidavit, I should say--did you take a copy--did you keep a copy?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you give it to anyone or give anyone else a copy?

A. No.

Q. Now, did you, the next day on the 8th, go to New York for some interviews for jobs?

A. It was--it--I either went later on the 7th or on the 8th, but around that time, yes.

Q. Was this a place that you had already interviewed?

A. Yes.

Q. And I assume this was at McAndrews and Forbes?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you feel that the interview went?

A. I--I know I characterized it in my grand jury testimony as having not gone very well.

Q. Okay. I think you also mentioned it went very poorly, too. Does that sound--does that ring a bell?

A. Sure.

Q. Why? Why would you so characterize it?

A. Well, as I've had a lot of people tell me, I'm a pessimist, but also I--I wasn't prepared. I was in a waiting room downstairs at McAndrews and Forbes, and--or at least, I thought it was a waiting room--and Mr. Durnan walked into the room unannounced, and the interview began. So I felt that I started on the wrong foot, and I just didn't feel that I was as articulate as I could have been.

Q. Did you call Mr. Jordan after that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you express those same concerns?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What did he say?

A. And this is a little fuzzy for me. I know that I had a few phone calls with him in that day. I think in this call, he said, you know, "Don't worry about it." I--my testimony is probably more complete on this. I'm sorry.

Q. What--what other phone calls did you have with him that day?

A. I remember talking to--I know that at some point, he said something about that he'd call the chairman, and then I think he said just at some point not to worry. He was always telling me not to worry because I always--I overreact a little bit.

Q. All total, how many calls did you have with him that day--your best guess?

A. I have no idea.

Q. More than two?

A. I--I don't know.

Q. Can you think of any other subjects the two of you would have talked about?

A. I don't think so.

Q. Did he, Mr. Jordan, tell you that he had talked to the chairman, or Mr. Perelman, whatever his title is?

A. I'm sorry. I know I've testified to this. I don't--I think so.

Q. And you had--did you have additional interviews at this company or a subsidiary?

A. Yes, I--well, I had with the sort of, I guess, daughter--daughter company, Revlon. I had an interview with Revlon the next day.

Q. And you were offered a job?

A. Yes, I was.

Q. About the 9th or so? That would have been 2 days after the affidavit?

A. Oh. Actually, no. I think I was offered a position, whatever that Friday was. Oh, yes, the 9th. I'm sorry. You're right. Oh, wait. It was either the 9th or the 13th--or the 12th-- the 9th or the 12th.

Q. Okay. Now, I'm--I was looking away. I'm confused.

A. That's okay. I--my interview was on the 9th, and I don't remember right now--I know I've testified to this--whether I found out that afternoon or it was on Monday that I got the informal offer.

Q. Mm-hmm.

A. So, if you want to tell me what I said in my grand jury testimony, I'll be happy to affirm that.

Q. I think we may be talking about perhaps an informal offer. Does that--on the 9th?

A. Yes. I know it was--okay. Was it on the--I don't--

Q. Yes.

A. --remember if it was the 9th or the 13th--

A. Okay.

Q. --but I know Ms. Sideman called me to extend an informal offer, and I accepted.

Q. Okay. Now, in regard to the affidavit--do you still have your draft in front of you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In paragraph number 3, you say: "I can not fathom any reason--fathom any reason why--that the plaintiff would seek information from me for her case."

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Carter at all go into the gist of the Paula Jones lawsuit, the sexual harassment part of it, and tell you what it was about?

A. I think I knew what it was about.

Q. All right. And then you indicated that you didn't like the part about the doors, being behind closed doors, but on the sexual relationship, paragraph 8, the first sentence, "I've never had a sexual relationship with the President"--

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. --that's not true, is it?

A. No. I haven't had intercourse with the President, but--

Q. Was that the distinction you made when you signed that affidavit, in your own mind?

A. That was the justification I made to myself, yes.

Q. Let me send you the final affidavit. It might be a little easier to work from--

A. Okay.

Q. --than the--than the original.

MR. BRYANT: Do we have all the--1235. [Witness handed document.]

SENATOR DeWINE: Congressman?

MR. BRYANT: Yes.

SENATOR DeWINE: We're down to 3 minutes on the tape. Would now be a good time to have him switch tapes and then we'll go right back in?

MR. BRYANT: Okay, that would be fine.

SENATOR DeWINE: I think we'll hold right at the table, and we'll get the tapes switched.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay, we will do that now. This marks the end of Videotape Number 2 in the deposition of Monica S. Lewinsky. We are going off the record at 14:31 hours. [Recess.]

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the beginning of Videotape Number 3 in the deposition of Monica S. Lewinsky. The time is 14:44 hours.

SENATOR DeWINE: We are back on the record. Let me advise counsel that you have used 3 hours and 2 minutes. Congressman Bryant, you may continue.

MR. BRYANT: Thank you, sir.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. Ms. Lewinsky, let me just follow up on some points here, and then I'll move toward the conclusion of my direct examination very, very quickly, I hope. In regard to the affidavit--I think you still have it in front of you--the final copy of the affidavit--I wanted to revisit your answer about paragraph 8--

A. Yes, sir.

Q. --and also refer you to your grand jury testimony of August the 6th. This begins on--actually, it is on page 1013 of the--it should be the Senate record, in the appendices, but it's your August 6th, 1998, grand jury testimony. And it's similar to the--my question about paragraph 8 about the sexual relationship--

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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