Jump to the start of individual depositions: Lewinsky, Jordan, Blumenthal

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MR. BRYANT: Uh, why don't we take the lunch now--

SENATOR DeWINE: All right. No one has any objection to that, we will do that.

THE WITNESS: I never object to food.

SENATOR DeWINE: Let me just announce to counsel you have used 2 hours and 14 minutes. It is now 20 minutes until 1. We'll come back here at 20 minutes until 2. And we need during this break also to see counsel and try to resolve the other issue prior to going back in. This is the privilege issue.

SENATOR LEAHY: Did counsel for Ms. Lewinsky have to make a couple phone calls first, before we have that discussion? I think--

SENATOR DeWINE: My suggestion would be we do that at the last 15 minutes of the break.

SENATOR LEAHY: I think he said he wanted to call Mr. Carter; that's why--

MR. CACHERIS: Meet you back up here?

SENATOR DeWINE: Yes. I would also--the sergeant-at-arms has asked me to announce that the food is on this floor, and since we have a very limited period of time, we suggest you try to stay on the floor. MS. HOFFMANN: We were planning to go back--

SENATOR DeWINE: Except--I understand. I know that you're--

MR. CACHERIS: We have our own arrangements.

SENATOR DeWINE: I know that you have your room, and you've made your own arrangements, and that's fine. So we will start back in one hour.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record at 12:39 p.m. [Whereupon, at 12:39 p.m., the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:39 p.m. this same day.]

afternoon session

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going back on the record at 13:43 hours.

SENATOR DeWINE: We are now back on the record. As we broke for lunch, there was an objection that had been made by Ms. Lewinsky's counsel. Let me call on them at this point for statements.

MR. CACHERIS: Yes. We have examined the record during the course of the break, and while we know that the immunity agreement does provide for Ms. Lewinsky to maintain her lawyer-client privilege, we think in this instance, the matter has been testified so fully that it has been waived. So the objection that we lodged is withdrawn.

SENATOR DeWINE: Thank you very much. Mr. Bryant, you may proceed.

MR. BRYANT: Thank you, Mr. Senator.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. We've got you to the point where Mr. Jordan has escorted you to Mr. Carter's office and has departed, and you and Mr. Carter have conversations. Generally, what did you discuss with Mr. Carter?

A. I guess the--the reasons why I didn't think I should be called in this matter.

Q. Did he ask you questions?

A. Yes.

Q. What type of questions did he ask you?

A. Um, they ranged from where I lived and where I was working to did I have a relationship with the President, did--everything in between.

Q. When he--when he asked you about the relationship, did you understand he meant a sexual-type relationship?

A. He asked me questions that--that indicated he was being specific.

Q. And did--did you deny such a relationship?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did he ask you questions about if you were ever alone with the President?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. And did you deny that?

A. I think I mentioned that I might have brought the President papers on occasion, may have had an occasion to be alone with him, but not--not anything I considered significant.

Q. But that was not true either, was it?

A. No.

Q. And in fact, that--the fact that you brought him papers, that was part of the cover-up story?

A. Correct.

Q. I'm unclear on a point I want to ask you. Also, did Mr. Carter ask you about how you perhaps were pulled into this case, and you gave some answer about knowing Betty Currie and--and Mr. Kaye? Does that ring bells? You gave that testimony in your deposition.

A. That that's how I got pulled into the case?

Q. Right. Did--

A. May I see that, please?

Q. It's about your denying the relationship with the President, and you think maybe you got pulled into the case. It's--certainly, it's--it's in your grand jury--okay. It's-- it's in the August 1 interview, page 9. This was a 302 exam from the FBI.

A. Um--

MR. BRYANT: Let me give that to her. Let me just give it to her to refresh her memory. I'm not going to put it in evidence, although it's--it should be there. [Handing document.] [Witness perusing document.]

THE WITNESS: I don't think that's an accurate representation of what I might have said in this interview.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. Okay. Would you--how would you have related Walter Kaye in that interview? How would his name have come up?

A. In this interview or with Mr. Carter?

Q. Well, in the interview with Mr. Carter that I assume was sort of summarized in that--

A. Right.

Q. --302, but, yes, with Mr. Carter.

A. Uh, I think I mentioned that I was friendly with Betty Currie, the President's secretary.

Q. And how would Mr. Kaye's name have come up in the conversation?

A. Because of how I met Ms. Currie was through--that's how I came to know of Ms. Currie and--and first introduced myself to her. Excuse me.

Q. Let's go back now and resume where we were before the lunch break. We were talking about the December visit to the White House and the conversation with the President. You had discussed--well, I think we're to the point where perhaps you--or I'll ask you to bring up your discussion with the President about the subpoena and the request for production.

A. Um, part way into my meeting with the President, I brought up the concern I had as to how I would have been put--how I might have been alerted or--not alerted, but how I was put on the witness list and how I might have been alerted to the Paula Jones' attorneys, and that that was--I was sort of concerned about that. So I discussed that a little, and then I said, um, that I was concerned about the hatpin. And to the best of my memory, he said that that had concerned him as well, and--

Q. Could he have said that bothered him?

A. He--he could have. I--I mean, I don't--I know that sometimes in the--in my grand jury testimony, they've put quotations around things when I'm attributing statements to other people, and I didn't necessarily mean that those were direct quotes. That was the gist of what I remembered him saying. So, concern, bothered, it doesn't--

Q. Was--was there a discussion at that point as to how someone might have--may have discovered the--the hatpin and why?

A. Well, he asked me if I had told anybody about it, and I said no.

Q. But the two of you reached no conclusion as to how that hatpin came--

A. No.

Q. --to appear on the motion?

A. No.

Q. Did he appear at all, I think, probably surprised that-- that you had received a request for production of documents or the--the hatpin was on that document?

A. I didn't discuss--we didn't discuss documents, request for documents, but with regard to the hatpin, um, I don't remember him being surprised.

Q. Mm-hmm. How long did the discussion last about the--this request for production of--of the items?

A. The topic of the Paula Jones case, maybe 5 minutes. Not very much.

Q. What else was said about that?

A. About the case?

Q. Yes.

A. There was--then, at some point in this discussion--I think it was after the hatpin stuff--I had said to him that I was concerned about the gifts and maybe I should put them away or possibly give them to Betty, and as I've testified numerously, his response was either ranging from no response to "I don't know" or "let me think about it."

Q. Did the conversation about the--the gifts that you just mentioned, did that immediately follow and tie into, if you will, the conversation about the request for production of items, the hatpin and so forth? Did one lead to the other?

A. I don't remember. I know the gift conversation was subsequent to the hatpin comment, but I--I don't remember if one led to the other.

Q. What else happened after that?

A. Hmm, I think we went back to sort of--we left that topic, kind of went back to the visit.

Q. Did--which included exchanging the Christmas gifts?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay.

A. I had already--he had already given me my presents at this point.

Q. Okay. Did--he gave you some gifts that day, and my question to you is what went through your mind when he did that, when you knew all along that you had just received a subpoena to produce gifts. Did that not concern you?

A. No, it didn't. I was happy to get them.

Q. All right. Why did it--beyond your happiness in receiving them, why did the subpoena aspect of it not concern you?

A. I think at that moment--I mean, you asked me when he gave me those gifts. So, at that moment, when I was there, I was happy to be with him. I was happy to get these Christmas presents. So I was nervous about the case, but I had made a decision that I wasn't going to get into it too much--

Q. Well--

A. --with a discussion.

Q. --have you in regards to that--you've testified in the past that from everything that the President had told you about things like this, there was never any question that you were going to keep everything quiet, and turning over all the gifts would prompt the Jones attorneys to question you. So you had no doubt in your mind, did you not, that you weren't going to turn these gifts over that he had just given you?

A. Uh, I--I think the latter half of your statement is correct. I don't know if you're

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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