Jump to the start of individual depositions: Lewinsky, Jordan, Blumenthal

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Q. And do you have a recollection of any response he may have made if you said that?

A. No.

Q. That--did you tell Mr. Jordan that day that the, uh, President gave you a hatpin and that the hatpin was mentioned in the subpoena?

A. No.

Q. Did you discuss the hatpin with Mr. Jordan?

A. On the 22nd?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. Any other time?

A. Yes.

Q. When was that?

A. On the 19th.

Q. Okay, and what was--I think I may have missed that, going through that. Tell me about it.

A. Actually, I think we--we went through it.

Q. You just maybe mentioned it.

A. I mentioned it when I first mentioned to him the subpoena that the hatpin had concerned me.

Q. What was the significance of that hatpin to you? That seems to stand out. Was that--was that a--

A. Right. I think, as I mentioned before, it was an alarm to me because it was a specific item--

Q. Right.

A. --in this list of generalities--I don't know generalities, but of general things--you sort of go--hatpin?

Q. Right. I recall that, but I--I think my question was, was it of any special significance to you.

A. Sure.

Q. Was it, like, the first gift or something, that it really stood out above the others?

A. Yes. It--it was--it was the first gift he gave me. It was a thoughtful gift. It was beautiful.

Q. And was the hatpin in that list, that group of items that you carried to surrender to Mr. Carter?

A. No.

Q. And the hatpin was not in that list of items that you showed Mr. Jordan?

A. I--I didn't show Mr. Jordan a list of items.

Q. No--I thought you said you showed him the items.

A. Correct.

Q. And the hatpin was not in that group--I may have "list"--

A. Oh.

Q. --but the hatpin was not in that group of items--

A. No, it was not.

Q. --that you showed Mr. Jordan. Okay. Tell us, if you would, how you arrived at Mr. Carter's. I know you rode in a car, but Mr. Jordan was with you--

A. Yes.

Q. --you went in--and tell us what happened.

A. Uh, in the car, we spoke about job things. I know he mentioned something about, I think, getting in touch with Howard Pastor, and I mentioned to Mr. Jordan that Mr. Bacon knew Mr. Pastor and had already gotten in touch with him, and so he should--I just wanted Mr. Jordan to be aware of that. Uh, we talked about--it was really all about the job stuff because Mr. Jordan--the man driving the car--I didn't want to discuss anything with the case.

Q. But once you arrived, and Mr. Jordan made the introduction--

A. Correct.

Q. --between the two of you. And did he explain to Mr. Carter your situation, or did he go beyond just the perfunctory introduction?

A. No.

Q. Did he leave?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you, uh--I guess, generally, what did you discuss with Mr. Carter?

A. The same vanilla story I had kind of--well, actually, not even that. I discussed with Mr. Carter the, uh, that this was ridiculous, that I was angry, I didn't want to be involved with this, I didn't want to be associated with Paula Jones, with this case.

Q. Did you, uh--

A. I asked if I could sue Paula Jones. [Laughing.]

Q. Did you discuss an affidavit?

A. Yes, I believe I mentioned an affidavit.

Q. Did you mention, uh, the, uh--well, was there discussion about how you could sign an affidavit that might be--allow you to skirt being called as a witness?

A. Mr. Carter said that was a possibility but that there were other things that we should try first; that he, uh, thought--well, actually, can I ask my attorneys a question for a moment?

MR. BRYANT: Uh, sure. [Witness conferring with counsel.]

SENATOR DeWINE: Counsel, Ms. Lewinsky's mike is carrying; it's picking up, so we don't want to--

THE WITNESS: Sorry. I was only saying nice things about you all.

SENATOR DeWINE: Thank you. [Laughter.]

MR. CACHERIS: So that you'll know what we're discussing here, as you know, Ms. Lewinsky is not required to give up her lawyer-client privileges, and the question we don't know the answer to and would like to address after lunch is whether in fact Mr. Carter has testified to this conversation. Therefore, perhaps--

SENATOR DeWINE: All right. Maybe counsel at this point could--could you rephrase--rephrase the question or ask another question, and after lunch, we can come back--

MR. CACHERIS: Or come back.

SENATOR DeWINE: Well, I don't want--I don't think he has to move off the general area if he can--I'll leave that up to counsel.

MR. BRYANT: There may be some misunderstanding or--

SENATOR DeWINE: Why don't you rephrase the question, and we'll see where we are.

MR. BRYANT: --on this issue of--well, on this issue of the attorney-client privilege. It is our understanding that she is able to testify. But again, I don't know, uh, if we're going to resolve that right now.

SENATOR DeWINE: Why don't we try to resolve that issue over lunch, and--

MR. BRYANT: Because I do have other questions that would relate to this area.

SENATOR DeWINE: --you can stay in this general area.

MR. BRYANT: Well, I'm not sure I can stay in this area too far without other questions that might arguably be involved in that privilege. I can ask them, and you can object if you think they're within that range.

MR. CACHERIS: Well, as I said, it's our understanding that under her agreement with the Independent Counsel, she has not been required to waive her lawyer-client privilege, and we don't want to do so here. That's that simple. And, Mr. Bryant, I want to check to see if Mr. Carter has testified about this. If he has, then we might be objecting--

MR. BRYANT: Well, she has already, I think, waived that privilege through talking with the FBI and those folks. I mean, we have statements that concern those conversations--

SENATOR DeWINE: Well, let's, instead of MR. BRYANT: And the 302's.

SENATOR DeWINE: Counsel, let me just--if I could interrupt both of you, to keep moving here, Mr. Bryant, you have a choice. You can continue on this line of questioning, and we will have to deal with that, or you can move off of it, and in 20 minutes we'll be at a lunch break and then we can try to resolve that.

MR. BRYANT: To be clear and fair, let's just--let me postpone the rest of this--

SENATOR DeWINE: That will be fine.

MR. BRYANT: --exam, and we'll move over to December 28th, and we'll come back if it's appropriate.

SENATOR DeWINE: That will be fine.

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm sorry.

MR. BRYANT: No. That's a valid concern; it really is. Let's talk a minute--I just don't want to forget to do this; unless I make notes, I forget.

SENATOR LEAHY: You've got enough people here making notes; I don't think it'll be--I don't think it'll be forgotten.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. We're going to move in the direction of the December 28th, 1997 meeting, and I'm going to ask you at some point did you meet with the President later in December.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay, and what date was that?

A. December 28th, 1997.

Q. Thank you. How did the meeting come about?

A. Uh, I contacted Mrs. Currie after Christmas and asked her to find out if the President still wanted to give me his Christmas present, or my Christmas present.

Q. Did Ms. Currie get back to you?

A. Yes, she did.

Q. And what was her response?

A. To come to the White House at 8:30 a.m. on the 28th.

Q. And that would have been Sunday?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you in fact go to the White House on that date?

A. Yes.

Q. And how did you get in?

A. I believe the Southwest Gate.

Q. Did Ms. Currie WAVE you in?

A. I think so.

Q. You've testified to that previously.

A. Okay, then I accept that.

Q. This, uh, meeting on the 28th was a Sunday, and Ms. Currie--again, according to your prior testimony--WAVE'd you in. This was all consistent with what the President had told you to do about, number one, coming on weekends; is that correct?

A. I--I--I don't think me coming in on that Sunday had--I mean, for me, my memory of it was that it was a holiday time, so it could have been any day. It's pretty quiet around the White House from Christmas to New Year's.

Q. And it would have been consistent with her WAVEing you in when she was there at work on Sunday?

A. Yes.

Q. That was unusual, though, for her to be in on Sunday, wasn't it?

A. I--I--I--I think so, but I mean, that's her--I think that's something you'd have to ask her.

MR. BRYANT: I'm concerned about the time. I'm going to go ahead and continue with this, and we'll just stop wherever we have a--whenever you tell us to stop. This will take a little bit longer than another 15 minutes or so; but it's appropriate, I think, for us to continue.

SENATOR DeWINE: Well, frankly, it's up to you.

MR. BRYANT: Okay.

SENATOR DeWINE: Do you have a problem in breaking it?

MR. BRYANT: No; no, I don't think so.

SENATOR DeWINE: I mean, if you do, we can take lunch now. I'll leave that up to you.

[[Page S1224]]

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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