Jump to the start of individual depositions: Lewinsky, Jordan, Blumenthal

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A. Well, I think that's what I just said.

Q. --he was testing you to see what you would say?

A. --that I wasn't--I--that was one of the--that was one of the things that went through my mind. I mean, it was not--I think that's what I just testified to, didn't I?

Q. You didn't use the term "wink-and-nod," though.

A. Oh.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Jordan during that meeting about the specifics of an affidavit?

A. No.

Q. Do you know if the subject of an affidavit even came up?

A. I don't think so.

Q. What happened next? Is that when he made the call to Mr. Carter, after this conversation?

A. No. He made the call to Mr.--I think--well, I think he made the call to Mr. Carter, uh, shortly after I came back into the room, but I could be wrong.

Q. And then the meeting concluded after that--after the appointment was set up with Mr. Carter, the meeting concluded?

A. Yes.

SENATOR DeWINE: Mr. Bryant, we're going to need to break sometime in the next 5 minutes. Is this a good time, or do you want to complete--

MR. BRYANT: This is a good time.

SENATOR DeWINE: Okay. We'll take a 5-minute break.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off the record at 12:04 p.m. [Recess.]

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going back on the record at 12:16 p.m.

SENATOR DeWINE: We are back on the record. Let me advise House Managers that they have consumed one hour and 54 minutes. Mr. Bryant, you may proceed.

MR. BRYANT: Thank you, sir.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. Ms. Lewinsky, let me just cover a couple of quick points, and then I'll move on to another area, at least the next meeting with Mr. Jordan and eventual meeting with Mr. Carter. Back when issues of--we were discussing the issues of cover stories, uh, would you tell me about the, uh, code name with Betty Currie, the President's secretary and how that worked in terms of the use--I guess the word "Kay," the name "Kay," and were there other code names, and when did this start?

A. Sure. First, let me say there's--from my experience with working with Independent Counsel on this subject area, there--my initial memory of things and then what I came to learn from, from other evidence, I think, are sort of two different things. So I initially hadn't remembered when that had happened or what had happened. The name "Kay" was used because Betty and I first came to know each other and know--or, I guess I came to know of Mrs. Currie through Walter Kaye, who was a family friend, and I think that that--I don't remember when we started using it, but I know that by January at some point--by let's just say January, I think, 12th or 13th, we were doing that. So I know I was beyond paranoid at this point.

Q. Was "Kay" your code name, so to speak?

A. I believe--yes, yes. So she was "Kay" and I was "Kay."

Q. So any time, uh--not any time--so you used the "Kay" name interchangeably between the two--just between the two of you?

A. Just for paging messages.

Q. And, uh, when we're talking about that Ms. Currie would WAVE you into the White House, would that occur when the President was there? I mean, you went in--

A. There--there were times that I went to see Mrs. Currie when the President wasn't there.

Q. Right. And she would WAVE you in.

A. Correct.

Q. And there were times other people WAVE'd you in when the President wasn't there?

A. Correct.

Q. But when the President was there, and you were going to see the President, Ms. Currie was the one that always WAVE'd you in?

A. Yes, and I think, unless--maybe on the occasions of the radio address or it was an official function.

Q. Now, I think we talked a little bit about this. During your December the 19th meeting with Mr. Jordan, uh, he did schedule you a time to meet, uh, and introduce you to Mr. Carter?

A. Correct.

Q. And that--when was that meeting with Mr. Carter scheduled?

A. Uh, I believe for--it was Monday morning. I think it was 11 o'clock, around--sometime around that time.

Q. And my notes say that would have been December the 22nd, 1997.

A. Correct.

Q. Did you, uh, call to meet him earlier, and if so, why?

A. Yes. I had--I had had some concerns over the weekend that I didn't know if--if Mr. Jordan knew about the relationship or didn't know about the relationship. I was concerned about--I'm sure you can understand that I was dealing with a set of facts that were very different from what the President knew about being pulled into this case in that I had, in fact, disclosed information. So I was very paranoid, and, uh, I, uh, I--I was trying to--trying to see what Mr. Jordan knew was--was trying to inform him, was trying to just get a better grasp of what was going on. Is that--is that clear? No?

Q. You were--you were worried that Mr. Jordan didn't have a--did not have a grasp of what was really going on?

A. Correct.

Q. And that would be in terms of actually knowing the real relationship between you and the President?

A. Correct.

Q. So how did you attempt to correct that?

A. Well, I--I sort of--I think the way it came up was I said, uh--I think I said to Mr. Jordan--I know I've testified to this, uh, that--something about what about if someone overheard the phone calls that I had with him. And Mr. Jordan, I believe, said something like: So what? The President's allowed to call people. And then--well.

Q. Now, was this at a meeting on December the 22nd, before you went to see Mr. Carter?

A. Correct.

Q. I assume you--you went to Mr. Jordan's office first, and then he was going to escort you over and turn you over to Mr. Carter?

A. Correct.

Q. And it was at that meeting that you brought up the possibility of someone overhearing a conversation with the President and you--between the two of you?

A. Yes.

Q. What else was said at that meeting with Mr. Jordan?

A. I think it covered a topic that I thought we weren't discussing here.

Q. Uh, okay. All right. I'm not sure.

A. Okay. Well, I--I know I've testified to this in my--I think in all three, if not both of my grand jury appearances, and I'm very happy to stand by that testimony.

Q. All right. I'm going to go around this a little bit without getting into details. You had a conversation with Mr. Jordan to detail--to give him more specific details of your relationship with the President.

A. Uh, to give him more details of some of the types of phone calls that we had.

Q. Okay. Uh, did you ask Mr. Jordan had he spoken with the President during that conversation?

A. Yes, I believe so.

Q. And why was this--why did you need to know that, or why was it important that you know that?

A. I wanted the President to know I'd been subpoenaed.

Q. Did, uh--in your, uh, proffer, you say that you made it clear to Mr. Jordan that you would deny the sexual relationship. Do you recall saying that in your proffer?

A. Uh, I know--I know that was written in my proffer.

Q. Okay. Well, I guess the better question is did you--did you in fact make that clear to Mr. Jordan that you would deny a sexual relationship with the President?

A. I--I'm not really sure. I--this is sort of an area that, uh, has been difficult for me. I think, as I might have discussed in the grand jury, that when I originally wrote this proffer, it was to be a road map and, really, something to help me to get immunity and not necessarily-- it's not perfect. Uh, so, I think that was my intention--I know that was my intention of--or at least what I thought I was doing--but I never really thought that this would become the be-all and end-all, my proffer.

Q. Did, uh, did you bring with you to the meeting with Mr. Jordan, and for the purpose of carrying it, I guess, to Mr. Carter, items in response to this request for production?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you discuss those items with Mr. Jordan?

A. I think I showed them to him, but I'm not 100 percent sure. If I've testified that I did, then I'd stand by that.

Q. Okay. How did you select those items?

A. Uh, actually, kind of in an obnoxious way, I guess. I--I felt that it was important to take the stand with Mr. Carter and then, I guess, to the Jones people that this was ridiculous, that they were--they were looking at the wrong person to be involved in this. And, in fact, that was true. I know and knew nothing of sexual harassment. So I think I brought the, uh, Christmas cards, that I'm sure everyone in this room has probably gotten from the President and First Lady, and considered that correspondence, and some innocuous pictures and--they were innocuous.

Q. Were they the kind of items that typically, an intern would receive or, like you said, any one of us might receive?

A. I think so.

Q. In other words, it wouldn't give away any kind of special relationship?

A. Exactly.

Q. And was that your intent?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you discuss how you selected those items with anybody?

A. I don't believe so.

Q. Did Mr. Jordan make any comment about those items?

A. No.

Q. Were any of these items eventually turned over to Mr. Carter?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you tell Mr. Jordan at that meeting that morning that these were not all of the gifts?

A. I think I--I know I sort of alluded to that in my proffer, and I don't, uh--it's possible. I don't have a specific recollection of that.

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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