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Were you supposed to contact Ms. Currie, his secretary?

A. Yes.

Q. And what were you supposed to tell her?

A. In an innocuous way that I had been able to convey that to Ms. Tripp or get her to do that.

Q. Now, in--at some point in October of that year, 1997, did your job focus change?

A. Yes.

Q. And how was that? What were you doing?

A. Uh, it really changed on October 6th, 1997, as a result of a conversation with Linda Tripp.

Q. Uh, in that, as I understand, you sort of got secondhand information that you were probably never going back to work at the White House.

A. Correct.

Q. Did you understand what that meant? Did you accept that? And I guess why would you accept it at that point? Why would you give up on the White House?

MR. CACHERIS: Those are three questions, Mr. Bryant. Will you--would you break it down, please?

MR. BRYANT: Well, yeah, it's true.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. Do you understand? I guess I'm trying to clarify.

A. Not really. I'm sorry.

Q. Why would you accept at that point in October that you were never going back to the White House?

A. I don't really remember, I mean, what--what--what was going through my mind at that point as to--to answer that question. Is that--

Q. Okay.

A. I'm sorry.

Q. Certainly, if you don't remember, that's a--that's a good answer.

A. Okay.

Q. So you don't recall anything had really changed other than you had heard secondhand that you weren't going to go back. You have no independent recollection of anything else other than what somebody told you that would have changed--

A. My recollection is--

Q. --changed your focus?

A. --that it was this--it was this conversation, what Linda Tripp told me from whom this information was coming, the way it was relayed to me that--that shifted everything that day.

Q. And you didn't feel it was necessary to go back to the President and perhaps confront the President and say, "why am I not coming back, I want to come back?"

A. I mean, I had a discussion with the President, but I had made a decision from that based on that information, and I guess my--my experience of it coming up on a year from the election, having not been brought back, that it probably wasn't going to happen.

Q. But you--you did call the President about that time and then--but the focus had been changed toward perhaps a job in another location.

A. Yes and no. I didn't call him, but I, um--

Q. You called Betty--

A. --but we did have a discussion about that.

Q. You called Betty Currie, his secretary.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay, and then through her, he contacted you and you had a discussion?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did you tell him at that time about the job?

A. I believe I testified to that, so that my testimony is probably more accurate. The gist of it was, um, that I wanted to move to New York and that I was accepting I wasn't going to be able to come back to the White House, and I asked for his help.

Q. Did you bring up Vernon Jordan's name as perhaps somebody that could help you?

A. It's possible it was in that conversation.

Q. What was the President's comments back to you about your deciding to go to New York?

A. I don't remember his exact comments. He was accepting of the concept.

Q. In regards to your--your, uh, decision to search for a job in New York, in your comments to the President, did he ever tell you that that was good, that perhaps the Jones lawyers could not easily find you in New York?

A. I'm sorry. I don't--I--I--

MR. CACHERIS: Excuse me again, Mr. Bryant. That's a compound question. He could--she could answer it was good, and then she could answer maybe the Jones lawyer couldn't get her, but I think you'd want an answer to each question.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way. There has been some reference to that fact throughout the proceedings, and I recall seeing something somewhere in your--your testimony that you said it or he said it. Do you recall anything being said about you going to Washington--to New York and that the effect of that might be that you would be more difficult to find?

A. I believe that might have been mentioned briefly on the 28th of December, but not as a reason to go to New York, but as a possible outcome of being there. Does that--does that make sense?

Q. It does.

A. Okay.

Q. What, uh--what would have been the context of that? And we're jumping ahead to December the 28th, but what would have been the context of that particular conversation about the New York and being perhaps--the result being it might be difficult to find you, or more difficult? What was the context?

A. Um, I--I--if I remember correctly, it came sort of at the tail-end of a very short discussion we had about the Jones case.

Q. At this November the 11th meeting, did the President ask you to prepare a list, sort of a wish list for jobs?

A. I'm sorry. Which--

Q. I'm sorry. Did I say October? We're back to the October the 11th meeting. Did the President ask you to prepare a wish list?

A. Okay. We haven't gone to the October 11th meeting yet. I--I haven't said anything about that meeting yet.

Q. Okay.

A. The phone call was on the 9th.

Q. Okay, and you subsequently had a meeting, then, with the President on the 11th?

A. Correct.

Q. Face--face-to-face meeting?

A. Correct.

Q. And at that meeting, did he suggest you give him a wish list or Betty Currie a wish list?

A. Yes.

Q. Again, I asked a compound question there. Who did he suggest you give the wish list to?

MR. CACHERIS: We're getting used to that.

MR. BRYANT: I'm getting good. I'm making my own objections now. [Laughter.]

THE WITNESS: Um, we sustain those. No, I'm sorry. [Laughter.]

MR. BRYANT: I can do that, too. I'll be doing that in a minute. Overruled. Okay.

THE WITNESS: Um, I--I believe he--he said I should get him a list, and the implication was through Betty.

BY MR. BRYANT:

Q. And obviously you prepared a list of--

A. Correct.

Q. --the people you'd like to work for in New York City.

A. Correct.

Q. And you sent that list--

A. Yes.

Q. --to Betty Currie or to the President?

A. I sent it to Ms. Currie.

Q. And also during this time--and I'm probably going to speed this up a little bit, but, uh, you did interview for the job at the United Nations?

A. Yes.

Q. And, uh--and through a process of several months there, or weeks at least, you did--made an offer to take a job at the United Nations and eventually declined it. Is that correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Did you in early November have the occasion to meet with Vernon Jordan about the job situation?

A. Yes.

Q. And how did you learn about that meeting?

A. I believe I asked Ms. Currie to check on the status of-- I guess of finding out if I could have this meeting, and then she let me--she let me know to call Mr. Jordan's secretary?

Q. And you set up an appointment with Mr. Jordan, or did she, Ms. Currie, do that?

A. No. I set up an appointment. I think that was after a phone--well, I guess I don't--I don't know that, so sorry.

Q. But that appointment was November the 5th?

A. Yes.

Q. Prior to going to the meeting with Vernon Jordan, did you tell the President that you had a meeting with Mr. Jordan?

A. I don't think so. I don't remember.

Q. Did you carry any documents or any papers with you to the meeting with Mr. Jordan?

A. Yes.

Q. What were those?

A. My resume and a list of public relations firms in New York.

Q. Did Mr. Jordan ask you why you were there?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did you say?

A. I was hoping to move to New York and that he could assist me in securing a job there.

Q. Did he ask you why you wanted to leave Washington?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was your answer?

A. I gave him the vanilla story of, um, that I--I think I-- I don't remember exactly what I said. I--I believe I've testified to this. I think it was something about wanting to get out of Washington.

Q. The vanilla story. You mean sort of an innocuous set of reasons, not really the true reasons you wanted to leave?

A. Yes.

Q. And what were the true reasons you wanted to leave?

A. Because I couldn't go back to the White House.

Q. Did--did you think Mr. Jordan accepted--did you think he would accept that vanilla story, or did you feel like he understood the real story?

A. No, I felt he accepted it.

Q. Did Mr. Jordan tell you during this meeting that he had already spoken with the President?

A. It was--I believe so.

Q. And that you had come highly recommended, I think?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he, Mr. Jordan, review your list of job preferences and suggest anything?

[[Page S1217]]

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Friday, February 5, 1999

• Defense, prosecution plot best use of videotapes
• Transcript highlights from the witness depositions
• Bipartisan group moves to open Senate deliberations
• Straw poll focuses attention on potential women candidates
• Secret Service concerned over Chelsea Clinton cover story
• GOP told to develop post-impeachment message
• Starr lawyers discuss impeachment
• President to establish race relations office
• Is Chelsea Clinton a valid journalistic subject?

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